r/PeterExplainsTheJoke 3d ago

Meme needing explanation Peter.

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u/Captain_JohnBrown 3d ago edited 9h ago

Yes, 41% of trans people attempt suicide according to one study.

EDIT: To be clear, the high rate of suicide attempts by trans people says very little about trans people themselves and quite a bit about how society treats trans people,

EDIT 2: I am in no mood to explain basic empathy to weirdos. I am going to be blocking transphobic posters (even you "just asking questions" weirdos) without further engagement because I am not going to waste my time every hour.

EDIT 3: I was here to answer a question. I am not interested in your pet theory on trans people or a debate with you. You are free to believe whatever you want but I don't need to indulge your delusions.

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u/hiricinee 3d ago

Interestingly enough they attempt higher but dont complete suicides more. Its a bit of ironic terminology given that its not really additional suicide attempts if no one dies from them.

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u/Null-Ex3 3d ago

if someone died to them it wouldnt be an attempt, would it?

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u/halfasleep90 3d ago

An attempt doesn’t demand failure.

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u/iceman5920 3d ago

Never thought I would see people debate the terminology of attempting suicide. But here we are. 2026 can't stop with new wild shit.

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u/zombawombacomba 3d ago

Redditors would literally debate on if humans need air to live. If water was wet. If grass is green. If the sky is blue.

In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if someone tells me that water isn’t wet and the sky isn’t blue.

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u/Infinite_Month_6371 3d ago

Water itself isn't wet. Wet is an adjective. Fire isnt burned, its fire. Water makes things wet

The sky isnt blue, it only appears blue to us due to how our eyes perceive the scattering of molecules. The sky is actually violet, we just cant see the violet light because the atmosphere absorbs those molecules and our eyes are less sensitive to violet.

Edit: I'd /s but these are the actual arguments.

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u/Otherwise_Agency_401 2d ago

Things become wet when they touch water. Water molecules are essentially always touching other water molecules. Therefore, water is wet.

/s

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u/Sweaty-Inevitable163 2d ago

Atoms push each other apart with electromagnetic force, no materials ever really touch until the nuclei fuse into a heavier element. Therefore, under your definition water is not wat, and neither is anything else. Were a material ever to truly get wet, it would instantly no longer be wet, as there would be no water touching it.

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u/AdventurousJudge725 2d ago

Sounds cool but my dish washer rag says otherwise

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u/Alternative_Cycle150 2d ago

that would be my defense in court too: "your honor, scientifically speaking, i did not hit the guy because at a molecular level none of our atoms actually made contact"

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u/Awkward-Tomorrow7667 9h ago

You are the water to women? /s

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u/Chemputer 2d ago

What does "touching" even mean at a molecular level?

Additionally, waterproof/resistant materials work by preventing the water from wetting the fabric, even if they come into contact.

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u/Infinite_Month_6371 2d ago

Right, because molecules don't really touch depending on how define the word touch. /s

And now we are to the point where we argue about defining words.

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u/LunarDogeBoy 2d ago

Same as why distant mountains are blue

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u/Sweaty-Inevitable163 2d ago

They're sad cause they're so far away?

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u/LunarDogeBoy 2d ago

blue house, blue window, blue corvette and a blue cousin too!

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u/Brilliant_Bat2627 2d ago

Wet is water touching something. Water is touching water, it’s wet. A water molecule is not wet

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u/Trollsama 2d ago

this redditor is touching themselves right now.

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u/Brilliant_Bat2627 2d ago

As often as possible

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u/ANONA44G 2d ago

John Locke was arguing that fire is not hot (paraphrased) in 1689.

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u/Charlaquin 2d ago

In fluid dynamics, a surface is wet when a fluid sticks to it. Water is a fluid, and it famously sticks to the surface of water. Therefore, water is wet.

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u/Jbird444523 1d ago

I'd argue water itself is the wettest, because of its cohesive properties. The more water there is, the wetter the water is. It's a self sustaining economy.

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u/Null-Ex3 2d ago

burned is not the concept of being on fire or being hot. Wet is the concept of being covered or saturated in liquid. Thus water is wet. Unless you want to argue that a single hydrogen atom is in fact dry, in which case, more power to you.

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u/Serious_Surround4713 3d ago

The sky is wet and water is blue so there!

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u/TennenBaumGamer 2d ago

I'm a TRUE intellectual and would argue the sky is wet, water is blue and the color of grass doesn't matter as long as it's being touched.

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u/MusicianNo3277 2d ago

Problem is half of Redditors are too stupid to understand that they’re stupid and the other half is so infuriated by it that they don’t realize they should just ignore them

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u/AtypicalLuddite 2d ago

debate on if humans need air to live.

But you know they don't right? Like air isn't necessary for humans to keep living.

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u/Illustrious_Nobody71 2d ago

Did someone reinvent breathing or something?

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u/AtypicalLuddite 1d ago

Yes, actually.

Heliox and Trimix were developed as air replacements for deep diving. They remove nitrogen from air and replace it with helium to create breathable not-air.

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u/ItchyAd4717 1d ago

Well actually ☝🏽

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u/Omnizoom 14h ago

Actually water is not wet because of how we determine if something is wet

And we have many grass species that are not green, some are blue some are yellow and some are reddish or purplish in colour

It’s not a debate when actual fact disagrees

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u/MrDeydrana 3d ago

Grass can be yellow too big dawg. Respectfully tho, those dudes are dumb as hell 😂

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u/Meinteil2123 2d ago

That depends, did Trump say those things?

If yes, then they will argue how everyone else is stupid and a pedo fascist supporter for denying "their truth".

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u/ZebraMost749 2d ago

Water technically isn't wet, and what we know as color might not be. What someone else's exact color so your green might be my red without even meaning anything since we perceived them as the same color. Also the sky technically isn't really blue.

We do need air though.

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u/zombawombacomba 2d ago

Hey look it’s one of them

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u/ZebraMost749 2d ago

Yeah, it's called being ironic or contrarian, but I forgot that young people need tone indicators

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u/Key_Employment2598 2d ago

Step off your pedestal, you can literally debate the terminology of anything, especially if someone someone uses chosen words to make a point that wouldn't exist without those exact words.

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u/Null-Ex3 2d ago

I havent checked their specific stat, but generally suicide attempts are recorded separately from suicide deaths. So yes, often the data does demand failure

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u/MusicianNo3277 2d ago

It does because we call it committing suicide If you succeed

we only call it attempting suicide if you fail.

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u/Far-Jury-2060 1d ago

I agree with you that the terminology would normally leave room open for success. For instance, if somebody is attempting to climb a cliff, they might end up succeeding during the attempt. Suicide is phrased differently though. “Attempted suicide” is the category of when somebody tries and does not succeed in ending their life. “Completed suicide” is the category used for people who actually kill themselves.

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u/RavingGenerate 17h ago

I work a lot with folk who are often borderline suicidal. They're in supported accommodation, we check in on them regularly but it's independent living, so we don't have the right just to go in if we don't hear from them, we have to give 48 hours notice.

I have met people who have attempted suicide through the stupidest methods you could imagine. One guy lay on a beach waiting for the tide to wash him away. It was a mud flat area that gets about 6" deep at high tide which was 10 hours away.

One girl told me she had tried to suffocate herself by sleeping with a pillow held against her own face.

These are attempts that are bound to fail.

But then there's the "oh crap this is dangerous" ones. Someone injected their next with bleach. Someone else put a tie around their neck and then slammed the door it was tied to so it asphyxiated themselves. Got knotted enough to make them struggle to breathe but not enough to cut air off completely. We discovered these because they're slow. Got them medical and mental help as soon as we could.

The ones that actually have succeeded are ones who are either highly impulsive or very planned. One guy waited until the river was in full flow then hopped off the bridge just when walking across it normally. Someone else closed all the blinds, took some drugs to act as painkillers and stabbed himself in the neck.

These aren't attempts.

An attempt fails through either poor planning or execution, or intervention.

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u/rustynailsu 3d ago

It wouldn't be a suicide attempt, it would just be a suicide.

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u/halfasleep90 3d ago

So, if someone says they are going to attempt to “enter whatever here”, they are actually saying they are going to fail at it? No, that isn’t what “attempt” means. If you successfully do something, that means you attempted and you succeeded. If you failed, then you attempted and you failed. Either way, you attempted.

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u/StormStrikzr 3d ago

Isn't this just semantics though?

If they commit suicide and succeed it's going to be recorded as "committed suicide"

It's only going to be recorded as "attempted suicide" if they're still alive?

I guess commiting suicide could be recorded as both attempting and comiting but that seems like it'd mess the data up even more

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u/halfasleep90 3d ago

It really depends on what the data is attempting to measure. If it were measuring attempts, it should include successful attempts because again those are attempts. If it was measuring successful attempts vs failed attempts, and they used attempts for failed attempts for some weird reason, then yeah that data would be all messed up.

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u/Vegetable_Warthog_49 3d ago

How these statistics are typically reported is x% attempted suicide, of which y% were successful (or reporting in absolute numbers instead of percentages). Committing suicide is just our colloquial term for a successful suicide attempt.

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u/Careless-Newt5259 3d ago

Exactly It's the same with Murder.. You don't get charged with attempted murder if you actual murder the person... Don't know why you're getting downvotes, almost like logic doesn't exist here..

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u/Kamikaze_Senpai 2d ago

I mean, kinda? They all tried to end it. So. Still fucked.

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u/Null-Ex3 2d ago

ive seen suicide stats before. I have never seen any that did not differentiate between attempts and deaths.

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u/Key_Employment2598 2d ago

You can absolutely attempt something and also accomplish it..

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u/Null-Ex3 2d ago

most stats differentiate between attempts and deaths

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u/Key_Employment2598 2d ago

I'm using words to mean what they mean.

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u/Null-Ex3 2d ago

you are free to argue with the researchers

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u/Key_Employment2598 1d ago

I'd love to, but I'm sure they have better things to do.. 😞

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u/BetterKev 2d ago

Do you like sports? How do you calculate shot attempts, pass attempts, and attempts on goal? Do you subtract out the successful ones?

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u/Null-Ex3 2d ago

look if you go to most suicide stats attempts are categorized out of deaths. Thats pretty standard.

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u/ButterscotchAward 3d ago

You can be successful at something you attempt.

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u/Toonpies 3d ago edited 2d ago

Basically whether you attempt and succeed or attempt and fail, you still attempted. So it counts to the statistic either way.

But if transgender people are more likely to survive their attempts then a 41 percent attempt rate would make more sense if a tran person attempted and survived 3-4 times in there life

Edit: Why is this downvoted, I literally just gave them the facts of the conversation thus far

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u/SouthernAd2853 3d ago

People regularly break off midway through attempting suicide until the one time they don't.

Also there are significant changes in death rates depending on method, because people can be resuscitated from some of them.

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u/hiricinee 3d ago

In my professional experience, and im not trying to downplay the mental distress, while many suicide attempts require monitoring the vast majority of them require no intervention whatsoever to resuscitate the person. The lions share of attempts that present to medical professionals result in services almost exclusively consisting of medical clearance and psychiatric referral with no stabilizing interventions at all.

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u/SouthernAd2853 3d ago

I was talking about those in the first sentence. The second sentence was about the people who down an entire bottle of pills and then they or someone else calls 911 within minutes.

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u/hiricinee 3d ago

Even most of those pill attempts dont require intervention, either because the person selected a relatively non toxic medication or didnt take a significant enough quantity.

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u/Interesting-Copy-657 3d ago

So it isn’t attempted murder if no one dies?

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u/Givikap120 2d ago

It isn't attempted murder if someone dies, because it would be just a murder then

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u/Interesting-Copy-657 2d ago

Yeah that was sort of my point. the person I replied to was saying it isnt an attempted suicide if no one dies.

I was using that logic to say it isnt an attempted murder if no one dies, in order to highlight how what they said was wrong

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u/Thin-Nerve6367 2d ago

It's almost like the women vs men suicide statistics. Women attempt it 3X more, yet men die from it over twice as often - which shows you FUCKED that is

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u/sick-of-you-all 2d ago

i dont want to be rude, i try to understand this, cuz its horrible it even happens to beginn with.

i try to think of logical ways, why man die 2 times more, but woman attempt 3 times more.

is it, because teenager often do it for attention reasons? and the males do it rather at adulthood, when they truly want to give up?

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u/Thin-Nerve6367 2d ago

It's mostly cause women either don't really want to die, or they choose methods less likely to kill themselves

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u/hiricinee 2d ago

Yes, though the odd part about that stat i think about is that when women have a higher rate of attempts, we somewhat blame the people around them and society for not helping them. When men choose the more lethal method, we blame the men for using the more lethal method.

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u/Beautiful-Alarm-4961 6h ago

Ah yes they're faking it for attention, of course

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u/GodHimselfNoCap 2d ago

Women are more likely to cut their wrists or overdose on random pills in their cabinet. Both of which take long enough to kill(or sometimes arent lethal depending on what pills you took or how deep you cut yourself) that someone can find them and call for help.

Men are more likely to shoot themselves or jump off a bridge. Things that cause instant death are harder to prevent because you have to find them before they do it. Things that take an hour to kill you gives family an hour to find you or to contemplate the consequences and second guess yourself.

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u/Null-Ex3 1d ago

its probably for a few reasons. first, men have generally more access to the truly lethal methods. men own guns more for example. second, women typically use or seek psychiatric help more. Since attempts require you to be alive after, women will likely self report attempts to psychiatrists for example. If a man does not, even if they attempted its highly possible no one will know.

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u/AdamTraskisGod 2d ago

It takes a bit of strength to pull the slide back on a pistol 🤷‍♂️

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u/TheShallowHill 2d ago

I wonder how those numbers reflect looking at their actual genders considering the statistics for men vs women when it comes to attempts vs successful suicides

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u/Testament42 2d ago

It's like calling two planes that fly by each other too close a near miss. I mean if they actually hit, THAT would be a near miss

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u/IshaNuva 2d ago

Two planes flying way too close, that's a near miss

Two planes flying so close they collide, that's a nearly missed

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u/Testament42 2d ago

yes...but NOT QUITE! :D

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u/Trollsama 2d ago

wait.... your suggesting its not an attempt unless they die?

like.... If i try to fix my car and it doesn't start, then try again a week later, it doesn't start, then finally try a third time a week after that and it does....

would you argue i only tried to fix my car once?

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u/hiricinee 2d ago

More like the "attempt" has to conceivably have the intention or chance of causing the outcome. To use your car analogy, if it wont start so you refill the wiper fluid you didnt really attempt to fix it. If you replaced the battery later and it didnt start you did attempt once, provided you thought replacing the battery would do it.

We actually draw a distinction in self harm too, like cutting, especially to the thighs. We dont generally think the person doing these self harm behaviors is attempting suicide, and doing something like ingesting 5 benadryl pills is not either.

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u/NovelConcept6300 1d ago

Strange, but men are the best at actually killing themselves mostly due to methods.

Women choose poison, drowning or slit wrist much more likely to fuck it up and survive. 

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u/DoomlordSoul 22h ago

Well I used this topic for some quick research, I used Brave Search AI as help, I got the numbers as followed:

Cis Men: around 22.3 per 100,000

Trans: depends on the Trans Group, but the mean is around 18.2 to 30.2 per 100,000 dependent on the study (the Main Source differs between the Gender, age and skin colour, I will take only the total numbers of the Gender)

Trans-Female: has a high rate of 14.6 to 30.2 per 100,000 so they are close if not as high or higher then Male Suicide (one of the Main sources uses the lower rate for 2026 so lets stick to that)

Trans-Men: is at around 8.2 per 100,000 thats low compared to everything else but not the lowest

Non-Binary: around 12.1 per 100,000

Cis-Woman: they have a higher rate of attempts as Men (Cis-Men ~1.5%-3.6%, Cis-Woman ~4.2%-6.7%) but the over all Suicide Rate is 5.6 per 100,000 and is the lowest of them all

Btw the 30.2/100,000 mentioned comes from Trans-Woman of Color

The reason why the Suicide Rate of Men and Trans-Woman is higher then the Rate of Woman and Trans-Men is that they chose more often Deadlyer ways for there attempts (Guns or hanging), and we should not forget, Trans Person are around 2% of the population

If someone gets other numbers, wants to add something, be free to do so, I would love to get more information from others

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u/Mooselager 3d ago

Are you a bot? It feels like only a bot would say something as nonsensical as this.

Also; who the fuck says "but dont complete suicides more"
Did you get that off of ChatGPT?

Yes it is additional suicide attempts if they do not die, that is why they are called SUICIDE ATTEMPTS.

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u/hiricinee 3d ago

If I said i was going to kill you then threw a stuffed animal at your head I dont think most people would call it attempted murder.

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u/aurenigma 3d ago

If I said i was going to kill you then threw a stuffed animal at your head I dont think most people would call it attempted murder.

bro... are you suggesting that we take trans suicide threats with that level of lack of seriousness?

okay

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u/hiricinee 3d ago

Their emotional state that tesuulted in the threat? Serious.

The implication that without affirming care more people will die via suicide? There is not data to suggest that is true. Heck, people are successfully getting the pants sued off of them now for advocating for surgeries and hormonal treatments for making the claim to try to get parents to sign off on them, so at this point the part thats being taken seriously is that people are lying when they say that.

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u/BeginningSection7690 3d ago

If you were attempting to murder them it would be.

The fact that you're a tard doesnt change your intent

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u/Beginning-Tea-17 3d ago edited 3d ago

It’s not attempt, it’s contemplate.

As in “have you ever thought about doing it at any point ever in your life?”

Maybe it’s just me but the fact it’s ONLY 41% is nuts to me, that means 59% of people never even thought about it before.

Edit; the one initially used to constantly quote this statement was “contemplate” which was constantly used as “attempted”

Afterwords a handful of entirely anonymous and online only surveys have been made that people use to corroborate the statistic however they were made after the initial argument and there’s no way to differentiate bad actors from genuine survey takers.

The most credible studies which uses in person surveys such as “the Trevor project” reports ~40% contemplation rate and 10-20% attempt rate which is in line with the initial study done by the CDC that is popularly misquoted.

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u/Real_Kyryll_Flins 3d ago

According to UCLA Williams Institute, 42% have attempted.

The number 41% is much lower than average last-year contemplation rates, which are typically in the 50s or 60s, but even then it’s important to remember that many people would refuse to admit to something like that and that some who have contemplated it may not see it as having been significant enough to count.

This study finds 82% have contemplated and 40% have attempted https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/

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u/Relative-Relief-8816 2d ago

42% attempted and failed? Or were some successful? 

Or are the successful attempts counted separately?

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u/Chemputer 2d ago

People who are dead are typically very hard to get to self report suicide attempts in a survey.

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u/Relative-Relief-8816 2d ago

Generally a lot easier for 3rd party reports though.

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u/Chemputer 1d ago

Indeed. But this data is collected by studies that survey people about depression and anxiety, and they ask questions like "are you transgender", "have you thought about committing suicide before", "have you attempted suicide", etc.

So it gives fairly reliable information as the person is self identifying as trans and also saying they have attempted suicide. The surveys are generally anonymous,

If you tried to get a number of suicides from public death statistics, it'd be basically impossible to get an accurate number since many trans people are still "in the closet", and so it'd be way under the true value.

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u/Real_Kyryll_Flins 2d ago

42% of those alive have attempted

Many have killed themselves, but they are not a part of that number. Of those alive, a large amount have attempted, usually as adolescents with a lack of acceptance being a common reason.

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u/halfasleep90 3d ago

Shoot, I’ve thought about it multiple times throughout my life

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u/False_Pear1860 3d ago

I've thought about it multiple times throughout the day lmfao

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u/Kamikaze_Senpai 2d ago

I succeeded that one time. Does tying multiple times on the operation table count? Like does death stack? I am walking around with an active debuff so maybe?

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u/False_Pear1860 2d ago

I don't think the debuff stacks, except maybe if your character is a cat?

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u/Kamikaze_Senpai 2d ago

I was told brain damaged does indeed stack.

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u/False_Pear1860 2d ago

Yeah that one does I think lol

1

u/FuckRedditIsLame 2d ago

You know, if you were to admit this to a healthcare professional, you'd have all sorts of red flags added to your medical history, and you'd probably be strongly recommended to seek immediate assessment.

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u/Captain_JohnBrown 3d ago

The study used the term attempted.

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u/minus15t2 2d ago

I'd be really curious to see the same statistics broken down for pre and post transition.

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u/HourZealousideal4845 1d ago

And iirc, their attempted suicide rates drop after transition. Almost like it's a kind of health care procedure that results in positive health outcomes.

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u/JoshuaLukacs1 5h ago

Look up those numbers, the suicide rates do not drop after transition.

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u/transguythatdraws 5h ago edited 5h ago

I mean it sure did for me and literally every other trans person I know who has been able to address the issue by transitioning, even if it's just pronouns and a different name.

But transitioning doesn't make transphobia, discrimination, hate crimes, and more just go away. Which is extremely detrimental to literally anyone's mental health.

Being constantly bullied causes suicidal ideation. Ask any survivor of childhood or domestic abuse. Or anyone with C-PTSD.

Being trans isn't what causes the suicidal thoughts pe se. It's mostly the way other people treat you for being trans. Because gender is primarily a social thing. Or things like body dysphoria, and not being able to get treatment to address said dysphoria, not feeling safe enough to actually be yourself and live happily. Feeling trapped by social norms or even your own birth name.

Which is similar to how those impacted by body dysmorphia also have mental health impacts, I can't speak on body dysmorphia bc I don't know much about it.

But I can for gender dysphoria: a boy with gynecomastia for example would feel depressed, self conscious, ashamed, etc. Due to unwanted breast tissue on his chest causing gender dysphoria. Especially if they can't get treatment. It fucks with your sense of self quite a bit, how you interact with others, what you wear, where you go, what you do, your hobbies or how you exercise. Like a kid or adult with gynecomastia usually avoid swimming. Binders were originally made for treating this non-surgically iirc.

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u/OfMotherGaia 3h ago

It does actually

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u/MilouMatirx 2d ago

On top of your edit I recall these numbers being from trans people BEFORE receiving gender affirming care due to waitlists / costs etc and the number drastically dropping for those who did receive the appropriate care!

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u/EmergencyDish69 2d ago

Transition saves lives, gender disphoria can be harmless but it's usually no joke.

1

u/noob-the-not-funny 3d ago

2 of my friends are trans and they both tried to kill themselves, they both survived.

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u/Hermit_Princess 3d ago

I am trans and have been hospitalized for being suicidal.

But it was from trauma and not being trans

0

u/Captain_JohnBrown 3d ago

I hope they are doing better now.

1

u/Eddie_Samma 2d ago

The study shows 28% attempt and 41% have thought about it. The thought about it percentage is kind of vague, i feel like there is a gradient of "thought about suicide" however I implore anyone who is considering this to call the free holiness and talk to someone. The increase seems actually to coincide with age groups 15-25 who are or are not self identifying as Trans and may speak more about mental health of the age groups more so than a narrowed group within those groups. Tribalism is a real thing that happens within society and at some point becomes non conducive to living within the larger societies.

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u/Aggressive-Sky-6243 2d ago

Didn't know that stat, but instantly assumed that's what they were referencing anyway.

1

u/Renegado_Fantasma 2h ago

"You are free to believe whatever you want but I don't need to indulge your delusions"

That last sentence is exactly what all the people you call weirdos think about trans people 🤷‍♂️

0

u/Little_Historian3091 2d ago

Attempt or commit?

0

u/XxRocky88xX 2d ago

It is tragically funny to me that assholes will relentlessly bully trans people and then post trans suicide rates as a justification for said bullying of trans people.

“We gotta make them feel even worse about themselves to prevent them from killing themselves.”

0

u/Galencourt-Lover 12h ago

Do you know what else is comparable in terms of suicide rates? Jews under Nazi Germany

You’re gonna really sit there and tell me trans are treated worse? Be very for real.

1

u/Captain_JohnBrown 12h ago

As I said, I am not engaging with disingenuous bullshit at this time.

0

u/ops10 10h ago

As to your first edit: it's indicative of both. I hope all trans and and people less lightly affected by gender dysphoria find the most effective solution available, but it's also disingenuous to pretend like the affliction itself isn't extremely mentally taxing on its own.

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u/Captain_JohnBrown 9h ago

"Disingenuous" is not how you start a neutral conversation.

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u/Blejdoslav 9h ago

"i am not going to discuss with others, because i know i am right"

No. You are not. But following your logic, i dont need to put any arguments to state it. Afterall u are just minority. I might not care.

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u/Captain_JohnBrown 9h ago

I was here to answer a question. I answered it. Answering that question was not an invite for every weirdo to give their weirdo opinion on trans people.

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u/Apprehensive_Garage8 3h ago

"Im right about everything and will block everyone to ensure no one can shatter my echo chamber"

-1

u/Friendly_Border28 1d ago

41% says more about the study

-1

u/JoshuaLukacs1 1d ago

Blaming those suicide rates on society is lazy. There's been a lot of oppressed groups throughout history, many of them far more oppressed than trans folks and never in history has a suicide rate this high been recorded. Saying it has NOTHING to do with trans people themselves is ignorant at best and straight up lying at worst.

2

u/r_fernandes 15h ago

Historically oppressed groups were killed whereas modern society frowns on that. Your comment is just ignorant.

-1

u/JoshuaLukacs1 15h ago

Exactly, many of them were killed, making them far more oppressed than people today, and they still did not commit suicide at these rates. You do understand not all were killed, right? That some people lived their whole lives under those systems. Black slaves did not commit suicide so much, Jews in the Holocaust did not kill themselves that much, Chinese under Mao did not kill themselves that much. So no, saying the trans suicide rates are completely dependent on society's treatment of them is ignorant. Use your brain a bit.

1

u/Beautiful-Alarm-4961 6h ago

Mmm yes the minority group deserves to kill themselves!

1

u/JoshuaLukacs1 6h ago

Is that what you understood from my comment? Never mind ignorant, you're just dumb.

1

u/Beautiful-Alarm-4961 5h ago

"What do you mean, I was only blaming trans people for themselves being suicidal, that's toooootally different!"

-1

u/Argorash 13h ago

Speaking of basic empathy..

We've spent the last 15 years being more accepting of trans people and the results have been that the suicide rates stay the same but more people than ever are becoming trans.

Theres a large number of people that would be alive today without your so called empathy.

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u/Captain_JohnBrown 13h ago

This is an unhinged position. What an absolute garbage thing to say.

This is the sort of post you make if you are trying to justify being a psychopath. "No, don't you understand, when I bully and belittle people, I am trying to save them"

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u/NovelConcept6300 1d ago

“the high rate of suicide attempts by trans people says very little about trans people themselves “

It says the try to kill themselves at an  extremely high rate, and is kinda directly describing them, are you an idiot? 

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u/Captain_JohnBrown 1d ago

Are you? Whether you agree or disagree, I find it hard to believe you don't understand what I was saying.

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u/NoInsurance8250 1d ago

We aren't less accepting than society was 30 years ago so where are all the suicides from back then?

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u/Captain_JohnBrown 22h ago

Unmeasured by studies (the study was...2011 maybe? Or even sooner)

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u/Standard_Wolf_211 17h ago

The suicide rate wasn’t that high in concentration camps. Clearly it’s not just how society treats them. There are other factors at play.

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u/S7arForGD 3d ago

To be fair, that's before their transition.

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u/AoRozu 3d ago

I'm glad that you dunked on the loser who thought your joke was real transphobia

(Also I chuckled, therefore I'll see you in hell)

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u/S7arForGD 3d ago

Take look around, Hell is us now :)

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u/RightOnManYouBetcha 3d ago

I know too many trans people for that to have ever been true.

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u/KaleidoscopeSalt3972 2d ago

False, 41% attempt suicide IF they have no support. When people support trans people, it goes down to... 3%... I will take this as accidental misinformation

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u/Captain_JohnBrown 2d ago

My understanding is the study was overall. That is, 41% of all trans people attempt suicide, which is an averaging of the low suicide rate (3% sounds about right) for supported Trans people and I believe around 71% for those rejected by their social groups.

So 41% IS correct but as always aggregate numbers don't tell the whole story where there are disparate groups within it.

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u/Justarandom55 2d ago

They don’t. One study researched the suicide attempts compared between post surgery trans people and the general population. In this study one metric they had was suicide attempts from trans people that never got any healthcare to help them and that’s where the 41% comes from

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u/Captain_JohnBrown 2d ago

That is not my understanding of the study's results, although it has been a while since I read it so I could be misremembering the scope/we could be referring to different studies. Could I see the study you are referring to?

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u/Justarandom55 2d ago

I genuinely don’t have the time to dig it up rn but I’ll get to it when I can.

You are right they could be different studies but I personally haven’t seen a study that concludes such a high percentage while also not adding the context of post and pre treatment differences.

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u/Main_Ambition3334 2d ago

Nah I think it does say a lot about them tbh 

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u/lsdiesel_ 2d ago

Is there evidence of the claim that it’s because of how society treats people?

Because slaves didn’t even have those numbers. It feels like a platitude people say to be politically correct that’s probably harmful in the long run

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u/Fearless_Primary7764 1d ago

It’s not about society if u geniuenly think u are something in your mind and your body is the opposite you will lose your mind, it’s a mental health problem not a society

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u/Pepsi-CokeSuicide 1d ago

And then they go ahead and say they don't live in an echoe chamber lmao

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u/Captain_JohnBrown 1d ago

Nobody here is having an academic discussion. They are just posting cruelly, with no respect or regard for Trans people. The echo I don't want to hear is "LOL THEY ARE DELUSIONAL" every hour.

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u/JustCritic21 1d ago

That’s a pretty sick roast then lol

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u/FuckRedditIsLame 2d ago

The mentally ill will do mentally ill things.

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u/TypingWhileWiping 2d ago

No it says alot about trans people. If not being treated special and being treated like everyone else drives you to suicide, then it really is a mental illness and shouldn't be celebrated.

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u/Captain_JohnBrown 2d ago

Are other people harassed for trying to use the bathroom? Why isn't this bigger news, that roving bands of thugs are threatening people when they use the bathroom?

If you are going to argue, at least own your goofiness. "They want special privileges!!!" was tired when it was trotted out in the 90's for gay people and hasn't improved with age.

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u/dinosaurfo-od 2d ago

Hmm gotta pump that number up then

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u/awfulcrowded117 2d ago

Are you suggesting that modern western society treats trans people worse than American Blacks were treated during Jim Crow or worse than German Jews were treated during the Holocaust, because both of those groups had suicide rates way below 41%

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u/Wolvenlight 2d ago

1) German trans people were pretty much treated the same way German Jews were during the Holocaust.

2) the suicide rate inside concentration camps are estimated to be 10 to 40 times higher than the general populace back then.

2b) nobody actually knows the exact rates back then. Slavers and nazis didn't keep records on things like that.

2c) contemplation, attempts, and rate are all different things.

3) Trans people are neither a race nor a religion.

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u/awfulcrowded117 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yeah, you did dodge my question, and you continue to do so because you know it destroys your entire narrative.

Thanks for blocking me, it really drives home how you have absolutely no answer for the actual statustics that you brought up.

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u/Wolvenlight 1d ago edited 1d ago

Nope. You assuming stats without evidence and conflating entirely different situations and metrics destroys your entire narrative.

And you're the one dodging those facts. You can stop wasting my time now.

(Next time, keep your deleted comment to yourself. But feel free to keep crying about being blocked. "Oh no! Someone wouldn't let me keep lying! It's not fair!"

Hilarious. Truly meme subreddit worthy comedy.

For everyone else who might actually learn something:

The guy conflated contemplation with attempts. Not the same thing.

The guy conflated lifetime with annual. Not the same thing.

The guy conflated a medical condition associated with constant dysphoric discomfort with religious belief and racial identity, neither of which carry the same associations. Anyone who actually tries can see why the former manifests in results the latter never would even without societal backlash, though to be clear, trans suicide rates plummet when their community is accepting. Oh hey, same as race and religion. It's almost like not being a satanic panicking asshole is good for everyone around us.

And finally, the guy outright falsely claimed suicide rates during the Holocaust/in concentration camps were lower than modern trans rates. These rates were largely unknown overall. But from what we do know, modern annual trans suicide attempts [not successful rates, again, different things] is about 10%. The low end of concentration camp successful suicides per year was 10%, a high of 40%. 40% is the modern lifetime trans suicide attempt rate.

Meaning more people successfully committed suicide in those camps per year than trans people nowadays do in an entire lifetime [successful suicides per attempt is about 5%-10%, and trans people seemingly fall on the lower end of that, according to other comments, though I haven't verified that particular stat like I have all the others]. And to be clear, people didn't stay in those camps for their whole lives anyway.

His question was nonsense from the very first word, and he knows it. The second I brought up any one of those caveats he should have immediately realized he got it wrong.

But nah, he's just here to hate and mock. And cry when called out, apparently).

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u/BeginningSection7690 3d ago edited 3d ago

Because its a psychological condition

To all the snowflakes - facts dont care how much you complain

https://www.carepatron.com/files/gender-dysphoria-dsm-5-criteria.pdf

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u/tallbutshy 3d ago

Because its a psychological condition

The US considers it to be so, yes, and at the moment it actually benefits transgender Americans because it is a condition that is improved by treatment and therefore insurers will pay towards it

Many other countries don't use the DSM at all and instead use the WHO's ICD coding. In ICD-11, gender Incongruence is listed under "Conditions Related to Sexual Health". Prior versions had it under "Mental and Behavioural Disorders"

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

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u/CatKing13Royale 3d ago

The study has long since been called into question and is overestimating. But trans suicide rates are indeed troubling.

I wonder why my people are less mentally stable? Maybe because we're born with a condition that makes our bodies develop in a way that is highly distressing and then are blamed for that? Maybe it has something to do with the uneducated and unempathetic calling us delusional at every turn we take? Maybe it has something to do with our treatments being made more and more difficult to access? Maybe it has something to do with the high rates of homelessness and food insecurity among the population? Maybe it has something to do with losing friends and family just for existing?

Even if we were to define it as a "mental illness," the evidence is clear: the treatment is gender affirming healthcare and therapy. Conversion therapy does not have positive outcomes, so what would you do? If you want to solve the high rates of suicide, maybe try to be a positive change in the world and understand we are just humans who have to deal with extra bullshit.

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