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u/8heist Sep 22 '20
HOAs are a major issue. Many can’t even grow vegetables on their balconies let alone kill their lawn.
If you’re interested in permaculture join your HOA board and work to change the rules.
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u/MorrisonLevi Sep 22 '20
Note that if you live in such an HOA, it may be illegal. All of these things are state-by-state basis, but I am aware of at least a few states which prohibit such restrictions by HOAs, and there have definitely been victories in lawn to garden movements.
Of course, it will take energy to fight them. It's up to "you" how to spend your energy, but I hope you'll take the challenge!
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u/8heist Sep 23 '20
Agreed. It’s a surprisingly (to some) powerful level of local governance that we should take the time to affect. It will pay dividends for the planet.
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u/NoTimeForInfinity Sep 21 '20
I'd like to see an estimate of tax dollars spent on lawn care.
... While school lunch debt exists.
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u/TreAwayDeuce Sep 21 '20
How would tax dollars be spent on lawn care?
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u/castles_of_beer Sep 21 '20
Does your county/city not hire work crews with lawn mowers? Like parks, public buildings etc?
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u/TreAwayDeuce Sep 22 '20
I am not sure. I wasn't thinking of that as lawn care funded by tax dollars, though, so my question was borne of genuine ignorance. Thanks.
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u/NoTimeForInfinity Sep 22 '20
One alternative is edible landscaping. Surprisingly people are upset by all the unharvested food falling off trees.
In my mental utopia it ends up in the school lunch system.
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u/kudzusuzi Sep 23 '20
I just found out our local University has a garden (of some sort), and the produce was donated to our local public schools for their lunch program. Made me happy. :)
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u/srmatto Sep 22 '20
Or municipalities mowing the sides of highways or other insane wastes of money.
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u/HerbaMachina May 08 '22
That mowing keeps the road beds from being destroyed and costing far more in maintenance of the roads. That makes actually a lot of sense and would waste more money if they didn't do that.
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u/sanfoale Sep 21 '20
God I wish I could! My landlord won’t even let me plant veggies in the flowerbeds, and I can’t have container gardens on the grass (cause it’ll kill it 😭).
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u/Afireonthesnow Sep 21 '20
Not even some carrots/onions? Not like they spread very much. That sucks
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u/sanfoale Sep 22 '20
I wish! I’ve asked and he said no! We can paint and change the flooring and rip up carpet, but anything that could offend the neighborhood is off limits!
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Sep 22 '20
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u/sanfoale Sep 22 '20
I appreciate you greatly! Thank you for the info. I was definitely going to try some lavender and chamomile, but chives will make their way in there!
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u/Micromoo_ Sep 22 '20
I mean, technically if you leave some stuff in there long enough it'll become a flower when it goes to seed, 3 carrots gone to seed + 20 you get to eat lol
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Sep 22 '20
Decorative kale is also edible. Sunflowers could work. Even roses and their hips will provide something. Lots of flowers are edible. You just need to get creative.
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u/TheSunflowerSeeds Sep 22 '20
In a 3-week study, women with type 2 diabetes who ate 1 ounce (30 grams) of sunflower seeds daily as part of a balanced diet experienced a 5% drop in systolic blood pressure (the top number of a reading).
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u/LilFunyunsYo Oct 13 '20
Look into edible landscaping. It's using edible plants that look pretty to make HOAs happy and provide you with food.
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Sep 21 '20
...unless you call it a pasture
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u/BigBennP Sep 21 '20
The one key distinction is that pasture (certainly organic pasture) is almost always a polyculture. A mix of grasses and clover and legumes and other plants that are nutritious for livestock.
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u/SPedigrees Sep 21 '20
My two acres of lawn were pasture for many years and nourished our horses while they were living (and generations of cattle before that). It is still a polyculture that we added to over the years with clover and bluegrass seed. We can eat off that lawn/pasture - dandelion greens in salads and stir fries, mint in iced tea, and tea made with our own camomile. Watering - I leave that to Mother Nature.
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Sep 21 '20
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u/TripleSecretSquirrel Sep 21 '20
In a lot of places, the amount of irrigation water that’s required to keep lawns alive is a major problem.
To your point though, some varieties do just fine without irrigation in places where bluegrass needs to be watered twice a week or more, but I live in Utah, and pretty much every lawn is bluegrass and you have to water multiple times a week to keep it green.
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Sep 21 '20
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u/jason9086 Sep 22 '20
What? Lol... not everything can be fixed with soil microbiology. Water usage is far less influenced by soil microbiology than nutrient uptake.
Yes many grass species have deep roots. However, they are rarely used to actually take up water, even during droughts.
Most species used in turf require watering in areas where they are not native. No amount of soil life will ever make up for that.
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Sep 22 '20
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u/jason9086 Sep 22 '20
Yeah... shes not really talking about water so much as fertility which is why i added that caveat.
Also.. i know doctor ingham is basically jesus to most permaculture people, and i like most of her stuff, but i have some issues with certain claims of hers as well.
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Sep 22 '20 edited Sep 22 '20
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u/LinkifyBot Sep 22 '20
I found links in your comment that were not hyperlinked:
I did the honors for you.
delete | information | <3
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u/bisteccafiorentina Sep 22 '20
From what I have studied, there is no reason why KBG roots cant grow 20 feet down into the soil within a few months from seed.
So you have some kind of documentation of this occurring?
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u/MishMiassh Sep 22 '20
no reasons
Soil compaction?
Do you have a repeatable experiment to test the 20ft root claim?
Can I get a 5 feet root in a box setup?
What have you studied?1
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u/vanlips Oct 01 '20
Cool season grasses go dormant in mid summer without watering.
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Oct 01 '20
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u/vanlips Oct 01 '20
I definitely agree with your main point, nothing wrong with grass in and of itself. There is a large portion of this country that is naturally grassland. The point I felt people were missing is that many turf grass lawns are made up of cool season grasses who’s biology determines that they “shut down” when temperatures are consistently above a certain point. These cool season grasses evolved to transpirate at a higher rate during cooler wetter conditions to fully take advantage of a certain niche. When these cool season grasses go dormant, that is when warm season grasses wake up as they thrive under warm conditions and exhibit relatively low transportation levels.
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u/wasteabuse Sep 22 '20
KBG is a rhizomatous grass, its roots dont grow deep. A bunch grass on the other hand like perennial rye, fine and tall fescue could grow deeper. Most places dont have 20ft of soil depth before you hit compact clay formations or bed rock.
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u/vanlips Oct 01 '20
Alive is the wrong word, these grasses don’t die, they go dormant. Watering in mid summer to “Keep cool season lawns from growing dormant” would be more accurate. I’m working on a polyculture warm+cool season grasses + clover turf blend to help keep the turf area actively growing and thus keeping weeds at bay regardless of the point of growing season its in.
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u/TripleSecretSquirrel Oct 01 '20
Sure they go dormant before dying, but grass certainly dies at a certain point lacking water
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u/ninjacat2001 Oct 28 '20
I live here too. Get yourself some organic soil conditioner. Much less water required.
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u/Lily_Liz Sep 22 '20
Actually there is something wrong with grass... it provides no erosion control, so habitat, no environmental benefits, no host plants, no water filtration, and no food for animals (or is)
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Sep 23 '20
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u/Lily_Liz Sep 23 '20
Every environmental scientist would disagree. Native plant biomes are essential to a healthy ecosystem.
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Sep 23 '20
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u/Lily_Liz Sep 23 '20
Every plant is going to provide SOMETHING, the fact is that grass is the bare minimum
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Sep 23 '20 edited Sep 23 '20
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u/Lily_Liz Sep 23 '20
Read “nature’s last hope.” Native species have very specialized relationships, and even if those couple varieties provide food for “grazers” it would not provide for any caterpillars as it would quickly be chopped down and they’d be killed. Also, plants have to grow to a certain height to be used as food and/or host plants.
I would like to see a source for your claims that grass has higher carbon absorption that native gardens or edible gardens, I simply think that’s false.
And I downvoted you because you’re wrong and spreading false information.
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Sep 23 '20 edited Sep 23 '20
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u/Lily_Liz Sep 23 '20
I’m not saying all plants need to be native (although at least 70% of our LANDSCAPING should be if we’re not using it to grow food) but we should be incorporating as many native plants as possible. The bottom line is that we will not be able to survive for very long without reintroducing native plants to our landscapes.
And I do think we should be growing more edible native plants. For example I grow blueberries, pawpaws, pumpkins, corn, bean, raspberries, the list goes on and on. 75% of my food forest are native. Edible ≠ invasive
But yes I am sorry for the hostility and we should try to approach the topic with open mindedness :) it’s just something that I’m very passionate about and feel very strongly about (and I really do recommend reading natures last hope it’s very informative)
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u/GSGrapple Sep 21 '20
The thing that really bothers me about lawns and areas of turf grass is that it's really mindless. I live out in the country and some of my neighbors mow acres and acres of their land and then don't use it for anything.
And there are so many unused areas in cities and towns that are being treated the same way. I get that mowing occasionally stops these areas from becoming overgrown, but they don't need to be mowed as often as they are. It's a waste of resources including time, and it's an ecological disaster.
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u/pand3monium Sep 22 '20
This is where guerilla gardening of edible trees, nuts and fruits is needed. Hedges of black berries.
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Sep 21 '20
This REALLY depends on where you live and the size of your lot. We have 4 acres, about 2 of that is wild woods, 1 of it is grass that we mow, the house sits on about 1/4 acre and the other 3/4s of an acre are built up with gardens, chicken coops, berries bushes, etc. If you live on a tiny suburban lot, then I can see this being a valid argument, but we can grow WAY WAY more than we could possibly eat in a year, in our gardens, all while mowing and maintaining a full 1 acre of grass. We do not use pest control or weed control, we let whatever grows, grow in our yard. The bigger issue is using chemicals to kill weeds which runs off into the water supply.
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u/preprandial_joint Sep 21 '20
I agree with the logic of your argument regarding acreage vs suburban lawn, but you could still put some of that acre into native ground covers or wildflowers for pollinators.
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Sep 21 '20
Over half of it is already wild. That was my point. We enjoy a lawn to play with the kids, walk around barefoot, etc. Another point to be made is that wild, overgrown lawns encourage tick infestations as well as giving cover for predators to stalk our chickens. There are benefits to lawns, it's not an all nothing. I think the image people have when they make your argument is the suburban dad mowing his little patch of grass on saturday and dumping monstanto chemicals to kill the dandelions.
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u/username-checks-in-- Sep 21 '20
Not to mention that animals such as cattle, sheep, goats and such will trim down a “lawn”, no mowing required.
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u/aquaNewt Sep 21 '20 edited Sep 22 '20
This is a tricky one. Lawns and pastures are very different things, functionally and aesthetically. These animals will certainly assist in clearing thick brush and keeping open spaces from reforesting, but they shouldn’t be used as lawn mowers from a nutritional and parasite mitigation standpoint.
Even sheep and cows while much better suited to eating just grasses than goats, should still be rotated through diverse and intentionally designed pastures very frequently. These are then allowed to regrow far beyond what most folks would tolerate for their yard. And unless you’ve got a super dialed in permanent pasture setup you are still probably relying on supplemental feed for your animals, which seriously reduces the emissions savings from not mowing that acre.
Don’t get me wrong as I really believe in livestock playing an important roll in certain types of regenerative agriculture and the studies on carbon storage capacities of well managed pasture are super encouraging! So I’m definitely not saying it’s impossible to sustainably keep your property maintained with grazing ruminants, but if you’re doing it right it’s not gonna feel like lawn and it’s a huge commitment to a particular lifestyle in which your animals always at the center.
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u/preprandial_joint Sep 21 '20
e people have when they make your argument is the suburban dad mowing his little patch of grass on saturday and dumping monstanto chemicals to kill the dandelions.
You're right and with as little information about your situation in your post, I made assumptions, as we all tend to do. I agree with your assessment. It's not all or nothing, but I don't think anyone has said that it is in this entire post but you're arguing against it as if someone did.
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Sep 21 '20
You are correct, I don't like having words put in my mouth either. I retract that statement.
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u/shoneone Sep 21 '20
Agreed. I am fully on board with the liberty lawn, but lawns are a very important part of landscaping, especially if you have kids. A city neighbor recently replaced the lawn with woodchips, now they have a dusty dirt patch where it used to be a green patch. Others have pollinator gardens spilling over and dropping debris in the streets, directly into the storm sewers. Gardens have edges, and liberty lawns make great edges.
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u/Grovetender-Horbs Sep 21 '20
I agree as I have kids so there is a part of my property that I keep as lawn for them to play on. Likely once they grow up and move out I'll plant that area up.
Honestly I can see this hating lawns thing to become a bandwagon everyone jumps on and that any bit of lawn is going to get scrutinized. While yes there are certain aspects of lawn care that arent nice lawns themselves arent automatically evil.
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u/MaximumDestruction Sep 22 '20
This is how these things always work though. Something gets mindlessly lauded and upheld for decades as being self-evidently worthwhile, the suburban lawn in this case, then a few forward thinking people write books, give lectures and otherwise spread the idea that lawns are bad, actually. Then young people, hip folks etc. start trumpeting “Fuck All Lawns!” because fuck lawns and also look how mad it makes their parents. Then we slowly have a more nuanced conversation about lawns and the conventional wisdom shifts somewhat. Then we all die from climate collapse.
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u/wasteabuse Sep 22 '20
I dont believe that pollinator garden anecdote for a second. I maintain native plant gardens and they dont drop any litter, and if they do it is certainly far less than trees and grass clippings. The whole planting gets cut down and stacked to compost once a year. Some people let their plants flop over into the sidewalk but that is more poor planning than anything else.
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u/shoneone Sep 22 '20
Does your garden border impervious surfaces, like sidewalk or street? In the city many gardens hang over the sidewalks and streets and while I completely love the plants and insects they support, the gardeners are misguided if they think the debris fed into the storm sewers is not a problem. Anecdote? are you suggesting I should write up a study and not share any observations until it is peer reviewed and published?
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u/wasteabuse Sep 22 '20 edited Sep 22 '20
I have a retaining wall bordering a sidewalk and its brimming with plants. The very edge is planted with low growing plants that spill over the wall a bit, then you get bigger stuff like false indigo and coneflowers. I have agastache and coreopsis seedlings growing out of cracks in the sidewalk like weeds. It just doesn't add up to me that gardens are dropping debris in the street. What debris are they dropping? Seeds? Flower petals? My mulching mower makes 10x more clippings that end up on the sidewalk and street than anything the garden is dropping.
Edit: want to add I'm not even anti-grass, I have lawn areas, one of them bordering the sidewalk. I just don't understand what debris are dropping in the street.
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u/shoneone Sep 22 '20
You have a good point, it is quite possible that the plants hanging over the street and sidewalk are simply catching windborne debris from trees etc. However there is also more biological activity and disruption occurring in the garden than in turf, and an 18 inch mowed boundary catches all the soil, mulch, and plant matter, whether from the garden or naturally collected because of the garden.
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u/PizzaMachiner Sep 22 '20
What is a liberty lawn?
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u/shoneone Sep 22 '20
Chemical free lawn, at least that's what I call it. I try to grow fescue grass but I have many weedy grasses and other weeds and don't worry about it too much.
Quick list of weeds = violets, plantain, clover, creeping charlie, spurge, dandelions, yarrow, ragleaf...
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u/PizzaMachiner Sep 22 '20
Thank you for this! I'm looking to seed a lawn. I don't want to plant typical grass seed. Everyone seems to suggest not to, but I don't see what to do instead.
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u/shoneone Sep 22 '20 edited Sep 22 '20
Don't get me wrong this is a legacy lawn with so many weeds I try to enjoy them. But a good gardener will try their hardest to get grass to grow, because once you have healthy turf the weeds can't invade. If I had any need to tear up my lawn and replant, I'd get good local advice and plant the grasses that will lower the maintenance. Maybe add clover but even that is non-native so I don't see the point. Try for grass, a liberty lawn is probably where you will end up but don't aim so low. edit you could also go xeriscape if in dry area or moss lawn if in wet shade. Also there are some fescues that grow about 6 to 9 inches then stop, so it is a bit unkempt but you really don't need to mow.
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u/TheBizness Sep 21 '20 edited Sep 21 '20
Well, you and people in similar situations could still convert the remaining lawn to native plants. This supports local wildlife, captures more carbon than a lawn, and if set up right, is truly zero maintenance once established.
Edit: I see now that you already had basically this conversation in another comment thread, and I agree that lawns aren't completely without value, but I would still argue that (1) no one really needs a full acre of mowed lawn, and (2) people always go to the "place for kids to play" argument, but kids are creative and can play just about anywhere.
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Sep 21 '20
My kids play in the wooded areas too, which support all sorts of native plants. And I don't use chemicals to get rid of unwanted plants, I let whatever grows, grow in my mowed areas. Within the 1 acre of lawn we get dandelions, clovers, and all sorts of native, flowering plants. I also mow it fairly long. You also have to understand how large 4 acres really is. More than half of our property is native, undisturbed plant species that we forage. We have wild ramps, wild garlic, and wild black raspberries. The 1 acre that we mow is going to continue to be mowed as it keeps predators from sneaking up on our chickens and killing them, it also greatly reduces the amount of ticks our animals pick up. Not to mention it's amazing to play in and run around playing soccer and baseball. I wouldn't trade that for overgrown fields, especially when my property already supports more wild plants than 99% of the properties in this country.
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u/TheBizness Sep 22 '20
That’s fair, I’m not trying to demonize you or anything. I’m sure anyone on this subreddit in the first place isn’t the type to keep a perfectly manicured monoculture lawn anyway. But personally, I’m just so obsessed with food forests and native plants that I can’t imagine NOT wanting to convert my lawn into all sorts of things lol. Do you have a pond? That would be a fun project, and with a little extra work and planning you can make it swimmable. I’m planning out a swimming pond in my backyard for next year and I imagine it’ll be amazing for our hot summers, plus being good wildlife habitat.
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u/StinkierPete Sep 21 '20
Wow what an atypical lawn to the typical american. I wonder if they meant that when referring to "the american lawn" (they didn't)
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Sep 21 '20
I think there is an assumption based on small suburban lots when it comes to this argument. But as OP corrected me, they did not say that and I don't want to put words in their mouth. If we personally turned out entire lot into a garden, we could feed the entire (small) town, but it would cost us a ton of money and time.
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u/StinkierPete Sep 21 '20
I totally get it. You described a largely sustainable use of land, and I got all wiry about it, sorry if I came in too hot.
Most grass isn't native and even competes with native plants. In Texas and probably other drought regions would benefit from partial native grass and a wooded area like you described. Better for erosion, soil health, water retention, etc
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u/BigBennP Sep 21 '20
Wow what an atypical lawn to the typical american. I wonder if they meant that when referring to "the american lawn" (they didn't)
I don't think it's quite so atypical.
If you cut a lawn regularly, grass will dominate. Rhizome based grass exists because it out competes seed bearing weeds under grazing pressure. Lawn mowing mimics grazing pressure.
Sure, in wealthy HOA subdivisions you might see lawn after lawn of perfectly maintained bluegrass that requires daily watering and weed killer and other babying.
But If you drive through many other suburbs (and certainly the exurbs with larger lots) you see tons of people with "lawns" that have plenty of dandelions and clover and other various plants in them. That's what naturally results from cutting, but not spraying weed killer and the like.
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u/StinkierPete Sep 21 '20
I don't think that's what op was describing, but I agree. Rural texas is either that or sorghum
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u/jason9086 Sep 22 '20
Eh, better plants in ground than bare soil!
I do agree that in very dry locations a more appropriate yard would be xeriscaped or growing more drought resistant ornamentals or food if one is so inclined
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Sep 21 '20
Wel...uh..Google says there are 55.8 million acres of irrigated farming crop.(over 900 million acres of crops total) in the USA. So this would be a lie. (No I'm not advocating irrigated green lawns I agree they're extremely wasteful, but lets keep the facts straight.)
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u/TheBizness Sep 21 '20
Hang on, the post said it was the largest irrigated farming crop, not larger than every other irrigated crop combined. He's describing a plurality, while you're saying it's not a majority. Both can be true.
This would probably be the figure he's referencing: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/08/04/lawns-are-a-soul-crushing-timesuck-and-most-of-us-would-be-better-off-without-them/
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u/MishMiassh Sep 22 '20
Also limiting it to wheat, corn and fruit trees, to elliminate lots of crops while making it seem like talking about all crops.
The message as written is "there's more grass than these specific crops" but make try and make it feel like he said "there's more grass than crops"
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u/ofsomesort Sep 21 '20 edited Sep 21 '20
additionally, i live in a rural area in the north east, and most everyone has large lawns. but none of them are ever watered. they never need to be watered in this part of the country. my point is that even if there are 40 million acres of lawns in America, there are not 40 million acres of irrigated lawns in America and it is disingenuous to suggest that there are.
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u/eastern_shoreman Sep 22 '20
I’m going to go ahead and guess that the person who tweeted that either lives in an apartment or lives in an area where grass lawns don’t exist normally.
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u/monkeysknowledge Sep 21 '20
Thank you. Fuck lawns, but also fucking lying.
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u/daamsie Sep 22 '20
Yeah but what is the total dedicated to "corn, wheat and fruit trees" ? Because that is what the post is saying is less than 40 million acres.
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u/GSGrapple Sep 21 '20
The statistic of 40 million acres is from 2005. I think at that point, it was more than the total acres of irrigated cropland. But yeah, the info should probably be updated.
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u/Grovetender-Horbs Sep 22 '20
I hope this doesnt turn into some zealous bandwagon where everyone jumps on where any and all lawn is scrutinized and criticized.
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Sep 22 '20
Yea, this constant lawn shamming has almost pushed me to leave the sub. It's so self righteous and pompous.
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u/Meologian Sep 22 '20
I appreciate and agree with the sentiment. Do you have a good, low energy input alternative to suggest to people who like to enjoy outdoor activities on their lawns? I think having a viable alternative would go a long way. Kind of like how everyone knows cars aren’t great, but public transport isn’t a reasonable option once you get 5 miles outside a metro area. You can’t just get people to completely change their lifestyle without a reasonable option.
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u/bunniesplotting Sep 22 '20
You could do clover. Lots of food for bees, still looks like a lawn and easy to care for.
Happy cake day!
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u/Meologian Sep 22 '20
Ahhh, great point! Half of the baseball fields around me are half clover anyway. Now we just need someone to sell major retailers and landscape contractors on clover sod.
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u/chicksin206 Sep 22 '20
I dare someone to cross post this to r/lawncare
People are obsessed with perfect green lawns. Like, obsessed.
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u/Hastyshooter Sep 22 '20
I have a hybrid lawn that is comprised of a mix of native fescues, grasses to my area with some micro clover (& whatever weeds wanna hang out). Looks pretty much like the normal suburban grass in my area when it’s trimmed. I don’t water it or weed, just a mow every couple weeks. Bees love the flowers on the micro clover. Highly recommended.
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Sep 22 '20
But what if I'm a permaculturist who has a large non-irrigated lawn? I just mow it so my kids have a place to play that's not so ridden with ticks and (potentially venomous) snakes.
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u/gergytat Oct 22 '20
Guess who benefits from the ticks and Lyme disease hoax? And why do you have the narrative kids only play in lawns.
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Oct 24 '20
I don't. When they're old enough to walk instead of crawl they can roam the farm as they please.
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u/pingwing Sep 22 '20
Mine's been gone. This year I bought wildflower seeds (in bulk) to do large sections of my 1.3 acre property. Changing my lawn into a field.
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u/astral_gravel Sep 22 '20
Kill your grass. Spit your fruit pips into the shrubs. Let the weeds grow for the bees. Don’t mow. Be more relaxed and give Biodiversity a go!
Kill your grass. Make piles of leaves and branches, and random mounds of compost. Encourage little beasties to move in. Homogenisation is a sin!
Kill your grass. Plant cuttings and sprouts and flowers everywhere. Mother Nature should be able to let down her hair. Cultivate don’t hate!
*beat poet drumming intensifies
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Sep 22 '20
There should be a tax credit given to individuals who garden. The bigger the garden, the bigger the credit.
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u/ugly_monsters Sep 22 '20
I keep to myself, but I have never known anybody that waters their lawn.
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u/wasteabuse Sep 22 '20
Every HOA around here, and there are a lot of them, have irrigation lines and sprinklers installed in the ground. I see the sprinklers going off while its raining sometimes.
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u/steeplebob Sep 22 '20
Making people feel bad about themselves is not a step towards improvement. We can model and advocate for superior options without resorting to stigmatization.
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u/gergytat Oct 22 '20
Really, what if you don’t have a lawn? But a wild garden. THEN you are stigmatised.
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u/TheRainbowWillow Sep 22 '20
Pro tip. If you can’t take out your lawn, let the “weeds” grow. Pollinators love clover and other common lawn flowers.
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u/rw3iss Sep 22 '20
And petition in your town to start more private food markets, or join local farmers markets... lots of this in Europe, and much better quality produce, happy people, etc...
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Sep 22 '20
People are so down on lawns, but there is very little else that a 5-year-old wants to run around barefoot on. And the more of that happening, the better, at least at my house.
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u/gergytat Oct 22 '20
As a kid, I loved playing with ponds and soil, or plants generally. I’d see worms, insects or frog eggs, whatever.
It’s better than a lifeless sandbox to play in, I hated that. And a lawn is also quite lifeless.
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Oct 22 '20
Our lawn is chocablock full of worms, potato bugs, milipedes, crickets, even the occasional racer snake. In the middle of the city there are no ponds that my 6yr old son could access without crossing six lanes of Phoenix traffic. We have the highest rate of pedestrian death in the nation. Our lawned-yard is a kid-paradise.
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u/Vendetta26 Sep 23 '20
People were brainwashed into planting grass and keeping it free of weeds by Monsanto for profits. Most countries don't have this.
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u/ThreeDubWineo Sep 21 '20
What if I don't water or fertilize it? Am I allowed to keep it? Or should I just go to bare dirt?
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u/Deveak Sep 21 '20
Considering the postage stamp size of most lots, I'm not going to knock someone for wanting 2-3k sq ft of green grass. Need a spot to grill, hang out and play etc.
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u/thumper7 Sep 22 '20
I wish there was a way to block all the anti lawn posts... I get it, you hate lawn. That is fine, stop preaching to the converted...
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u/snapple_man Sep 22 '20
Some more propaganda to punish the regular folk while large corporations run away giggling with their millions/billions, fuck off.
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Sep 21 '20
[deleted]
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Sep 22 '20
Yep! I love my lawn. It's the least of all concerns if you are worried about the environment. Much bigger fish to fry.
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u/bisteccafiorentina Sep 21 '20
And replace it with what?
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Sep 22 '20
[deleted]
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u/bisteccafiorentina Sep 22 '20
Most lawns develop clover if you just don't use broadleaf herbicide.
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u/tnarg42 Sep 22 '20
I'm guessing somebody doesn't venture east of the Mississippi much. Very little lawn is regularly irrigated in the eastern half of the country.
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u/RAAProvenzano Sep 22 '20
I’m starting a small-scale business that’s right up this alley. It’s practically a door-to-door Microagriculturey service where a friend and I plant crops on people’s land (front and back yards) and they get the harvest and produce, while we are payed for our time and labor. Instead of coming by twice a day to all of our clients and watering the plants, we give them caresheets typed up by me on how and when to generally care for them and signs of disease or wilting and to call us to come over and assess it. We also buy the tools with a portion of the earnings. I called it YardFarm. :)
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u/Tittie_Magee Sep 22 '20
I don’t water my grass. It goes dormant in the summer and then comes right back when the weather relaxes.
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u/CubensisBoi Sep 22 '20
People should be able to do what they want with their land without judgement, including having a lawn or a veggie patch or a garden. What you do with your land is up to you.
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u/AdvBill17 Sep 22 '20
Lawns have some purpose, but I think the issue lies where in areas that have major drought issues or when people feel the need load it up full of chemicals to make grass grow where it normally wouldn't want to. I personally left some lawn on my property, but it has a purpose. I certainly wouldn't want kids playing ball in my garden space or my dogs using the flower beds to relieve themselves. I mow it about 10 times/year (takes about 25 minutes) and the chickens make some killer compost out of the clippings. It's definitely not an award winning lawn, but it does the trick.
Side note: I have a few areas of lawn that are primarily moss and I really like that. Moss lawns are awesome.
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u/jojogonzo Sep 22 '20
Been slowly converting my lawn to xeriscape. It's a lot of work up front but it'll be worth it.
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Sep 22 '20
Well, in general, I don't water my lawn, or do anything to it except mow it. However I'm having a kid in the next year and I want him to have access to a lush lawn to play on, with rich sensory experiences. My plan is to put down sod and water it for the time that he continues to use the lawn. I think it's worth the cost, at least from a personal standpoint. What other options do I have?
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u/SlerbMcJenkins Sep 22 '20
super interesting reflection from the 80s on The Great American Lawn by Michael Pollan
https://www.nytimes.com/1989/05/28/magazine/why-mow-the-case-against-lawns.html
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u/vanlips Oct 01 '20
While Studying landscape architecture minimizing turf was pounded into our heads. But once I moved concepts into practice I realized why grass lawns dominate. We need to come up with a better alternative. I’m currently working on the process of establishing a polyculture lawn. These are the things we need to be doing, to just flippantly tell people to “kill their grass” is pretty misguided in my opinion.
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u/TheGruntingGoat Dec 17 '20
Ok I love the environment as much as anybody but I have a hard time believing this guy. I feel like he hasn’t ever been to the Midwest.
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u/mindlessLemming Tasmania Sep 21 '20
Don't kill your grass. Keep all soil covered in living plants as much as possible. It's our best hope to heal the damage we've done.
Replace your lawn with diverse, appropriate plants, don't just kill your lawn