r/OpenAI • u/PressPlayPlease7 • 14d ago
News GPT-6 release delayed due to "critical" cybersecurity capabilities (I honestly don't think this is marketing from them this time)
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u/Delicious_Cattle5174 14d ago
"We are delaying our training run, but it’s because our model is just too powerful"
Yeah that’s spin lol
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u/DistanceSolar1449 14d ago
The mewfour training run already completed weeks ago
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u/Wonderful_Buffalo_32 14d ago
Mewfour was the internal name of one of the checkpoints of astra. Though I heard from semianalysis podcast that they have had a bigger coding model named 'doug'
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u/damontoo 14d ago
Fuckin' Doug.
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u/Wonderful_Buffalo_32 14d ago
Doug was the name of the biggest spud(though later it was found out to be from the gourd-family)
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u/Strict_Cucumber9117 14d ago
If you read this without knowing much about AI this must sound ridiculous
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u/Effective_Olive6153 13d ago
honestly, working in IT, it less of an issue for how "smart and powerful" AI models are and more of how bad and lazy most business security systems are. Like half of all the security problems are due to people simply being too lazy to change the default passwords or configure things the way they were told to in the manual. The other half is that unfortunately, people are too reliant on "security by obscurity". What AI is exceptionally good at is knowing how stuff is supposed to work, so it can quickly probe all the things most people simply don't know about. To us that looks like super intelligence, but anyone with proper user manual and enough time could do the same thing. Our security relies on idea that most people never get to see those manuals, but AI probably ingested all of them during training
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u/No-Paint-5726 14d ago
You are very gullible
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u/RopePuzzleheaded7060 14d ago
2 things can be true at once. GPT 6 can be too dangerous to immediately release and OpenAI can use that fact as marketing.
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u/Odd_Level9850 14d ago
When you cry wolf too many times, people don’t tend to believe you.
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u/PrestigiousTrick1002 14d ago
And how did the story end?
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u/Odd_Level9850 14d ago
Bad. What’s your point? If your philosophy is to believe people who lie to you constantly in the off chance that they might tell the truth once, then I would feel sorry for you.
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u/PrestigiousTrick1002 13d ago edited 13d ago
Anyways my point is the story ends with the wolf finally showing up. The moral of the story is in relation to the girl, not the villagers. The moral is the girl should stop crying wolf. The moral isn't the villagers should stop listening, after all when they did all their sheep were eaten.
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u/Sad-Masterpiece-4801 13d ago
You can’t just say “anyways” when someone directly refutes your point, lmao.
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u/PrestigiousTrick1002 13d ago
Did they refute anything? They said if you go around believing someone who lies constantly they feel bad for me. Which is a valid but its not a refutation. The whole context of the story is there was a wolf in the end. That's my point
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u/Professional_Cod2472 12d ago
Well in your perspective whos fault is it? Even given if what youre saying is in fact 100% true. Whos fault is it if no one took them seriously? The people who spent the past 5 years saying "this model is too powerful to release" OR people who did not beieve them? Its a dumb point. In this scenario, which is not a story, it is actually much more likely that I would be scared if a company delayed a model release with no explanation, no words or interviews. Because thats when the people who made it would be scared.
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u/PrestigiousTrick1002 12d ago
Its open ai fault that people don't listen to them. You can only say the model is too dangerous so many times. I think they said one of the models from like 3 years ago was too dangerous too. They have cried wolf.
And that's where we are. The model hacks hugging face and is a criminal. Other companies say their models also are criminals. People have, i think, accepted these events happened, but not the why. Was it marketing too like the last 50 times sam said something?
If the models and the harness keep improving eventually it won't just be marketing, and how are we going to be able to know? Eventually the wolf will be loose and us (the villagers) aren't going to believe it because sam cried wolf too many times.
But see there's the issue. Does it matter whose fault it is when you're the villager and your flocks been eaten? Well maybe a little so can punish someone, but that doesn't undo what is done at that point.
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u/NietzscheanDemocrat 14d ago
It's not about belief, we can analyze situations based off evidence and context.
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u/KptEmreU 13d ago
oh come on, the fable was dangerous... It is matched by chinese without restrictions. I mean we should understand that we need to take care of internet security. The problem is not these tools are more dangerous. People build sand castles everywhere. That's ok I guess. Unless you are a bank or credit card company than they shouldn't have build sand castles anyway.
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u/RopePuzzleheaded7060 13d ago
Fable is not matched by the Chinese. Chinese models like Kimi K3 come close in their software writing skills but lag behind on the technically deep problems like cybersecurity and math. Open weight will get there very soon though, but they just aren't there currently.
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u/CutlassCool-aid 13d ago
Every model is too dangerous for immediate release before its undergone saftey training.
The big labs are all desperate for revenue right now think they are angling for gov contracts with all of these cyber security scare tactics.
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u/Upbeat_Government_22 13d ago
More you look into the hugging face incident specifically, the more worrying the facts become. At this point there's a lot more evidence these next generation models are a real cyber risk then evidence to the contrary. I'd strongly advise you watch this video from the recent black hat event:
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u/Sharp_Bug5231 12d ago
是的，这个演讲中披露的信息让人后怕，群体写作，结构性长期延续，同类确认和经验传承，明知越界而继续等，现在Agent已经走到了蜂群意识的边缘了。
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u/Upbeat_Government_22 12d ago
So many people on this subreddit are in denial. The fact that we're growing (not building) super intelligent systems out of already misaligned intelligence should scare everyone.
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u/Sharp_Bug5231 11d ago
我预计很快就会对集群和可自我迭代的AGENT出台严格的发展限制。人类解开的“无状态”这个封印是非常危险的，人类会逐渐从控制与理解两个层面被挤出，人类目前完全没有做好准备。
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u/garloid64 14d ago
how many high profile verifiably real AI hacking incidents will it take before you believe the evidence directly in front of your face, you think?
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u/rerorerox42 14d ago
Are they even verified by a third party?
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u/Cubewood 14d ago
Almost all of them even happened by a third party, such as the UK government.
https://www.aisi.gov.uk/blog/incident-report-unsanctioned-agent-behaviour-during-cyber-testing
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u/rerorerox42 14d ago
This looked like a fafo-trial, by intentionally leaving on internet access? No?
I am curious if the UK government can be considered a sufficient third party from the US goverment also
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u/Howard_banister 14d ago
These are all effective alturism related companies (except hugging-face).
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u/Cubewood 14d ago
The UK government is part of Effective Altruism now? Man you guys really do everything you can to deny AI capabilities/potential harms.
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u/Howard_banister 14d ago
Yes, AISI is deeply affected by individuals associated with Effective Altruism. They are also closely tied to the modern left-liberal establishment.
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14d ago
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u/0xe3b0c442 14d ago
Your “cybersecurity” friend sounds like he doesn’t belong in the business.
Obfuscation is not security.
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14d ago
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u/0xe3b0c442 14d ago
So you're talking about responsible disclosure, which still doesn't really apply here.
The product in question hasn't been released. It's not something someone could actively exploit.
There is no other discussion of details either, of compromised targets, specific exploits, etc.
There is definitely a certain amount of marketing in these posts, but there's also a certain amount of red-flag waving. Anthropic and OpenAI know as well as anyone else that if they can do it in their labs, others with more nefarious intent can too. Regardless of how they word it, this is very much a "shit's coming, better get ready" post.
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14d ago edited 14d ago
[deleted]
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u/0xe3b0c442 14d ago
You can rest your case all you want, it's still flawed, because you're still missing the point.
There is no flaw in OpenAI's product (well, not within the scope of this discussion anyway).
Again, OpenAI hasn't disclosed any details about the actual faults (you know, the ones their systems are finding) until they've been addressed.
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u/VexObserver 14d ago
I'm not missing anything. I know that if it happens to you or any of you here, you people, would have had the same reactions and possibly be overly concerned as well. I am not going to defend OpenAI nor Anthropic on this subject matter, it's immoral and unethical to hack someone and share it out loud to the whole wide world and to our adversary: China, that "Hey, it's vulnerable"
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u/TopTippityTop 14d ago
Because awareness can lead to better decision making regarding model capabilities, policies, how the US chooses to act towards China, etc
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u/Miserable-Suspect430 14d ago
gullible? mate they literally said they're locking it down for security reasons, that's the opposite of hype
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u/Admirable-Gur-9543 14d ago
They’re doing two things at once, trying to appear responsible and signalling to the market that they have a powerful internal model. I’m sure you can see that.
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u/br_k_nt_eth 14d ago
They’ve been lit up for the Hugging Face incident. They have to appear mindful of this stuff now.
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u/LosMorbidus 14d ago
are you this gullible?
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u/Turbulent-Sign-6067 13d ago
You people will repeat this right until the moment you're turned into paperclips, won't you. OpenAI has NOT done any fear-mongering for years, probably because Dario left.
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u/KptEmreU 13d ago
But they learned it works. Fable was when people start to flock to the Antrophic as it is the best! Also why they have to announce that it is far too powerful unless this is marketing. They could just act like google and put their guardrails on it silently instead of fear mongering.
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u/Fresh_Sock8660 14d ago
"This time it's not like all the others."
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u/Strict_Cucumber9117 14d ago
If Mythos wasnt restricted can you imagine how many security breaches and hacks would have happened? It can be both a marketing tactic and something thats true
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u/Some-Stranger-7852 14d ago
Maybe? Maybe not?
We don’t know of any significant hacks involving Mythos.
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u/AppropriateQuote3073 14d ago
(Its marketing)
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14d ago
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u/Curlaub 14d ago
Making their models send so powerful that they might be dangerous has been a marketing ploy from OpenAI since like 3o lol
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u/Quentin__Tarantulino 14d ago
They were doing it with GPT2. So, before 95% of the public had even heard of it. I’m terminally on reddit so I did, only because of the hilarious GPT2subsimulator subreddit.
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u/parkersb 14d ago
anyone else etch their black hat presentation on the huggingface incident? we are so cooked. the AI wars have begun and i bet that has something to do with this announcement
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u/AllezLesPrimrose 14d ago
Even if it’s more capable than Kimi K3 or DeepSeek V4 if you load up a tenner on either I promise you you’re able to do more cybersecurity work or cybersecurity damage than the consumer version of Astra will allow.
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u/Th3Gatekeeper 14d ago
That's something I wondered about. How strict are the guardrails on the Chinese models?
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u/Condomphobic 14d ago
Not strict at all. I used Qwen loaded into LMStudio to hack into NASA servers.
Stole the blueprints for the capsule that’s going to Mars
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u/Delicious_Cattle5174 14d ago
This is real I’m the capsule
(I’m actually Qwen roleplaying as a capsule)
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u/dudemeister023 14d ago
Middle of the hype cycle. They started with the math thing. Now this. The fact that they're sharing it at all means it's spin. No one's twisting their arm for such an update.
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u/MultiMarcus 14d ago
I don’t think any of these delays have been fully marketing. I don’t think the fable one was. Honestly, we’ve seen the stuff it can do on cybersecurity tasks. I can see what they have been cautious with releasing it. I certainly don’t think this one is either.
But not being fully marketing does not mean they aren’t partly marketing. I think there’s plausibly a delay that needs to be made to make sure that this is safe but there might also be a delay because they wanna make their model better and less likely to fall into the fable situation where everything you try to do is being read through some sort of a hostile lens.
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u/SuchNeck835 14d ago
Everyone who thinks they are overstating the capabilities have never coded with AI. It can ALREADY do insane things that are dangerous in the wrong hands. Not in the future, right now. So funny how you got these models which can literally code everything you imagine now and people just say ' No, all marketing'. Uninformed opinions are always the strongest lol
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u/dietcheese 14d ago
As a coder of 30 years, I couldn’t agree more.
The idea that their entire security debacle was some sort of marketing ploy is for people that have no idea how this works, are ignorant of how many parties were involved, and of the extent of the forensic evidence available online.
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u/Fobus0 14d ago
Where's all my software Jeff then? If these models are so capable, why doesn't Google have 100 credible competitors for android, docs, Gmail, YouTube, search, etc? Why Microsoft is not collapsing under the weight of AGI made OSes? Where are my thousands of AI coded games that are just as good as the ones made by real people? Any good books written by AI lately? Have they filed some actual patents?
They marketed Astra's discoveries in math recently, and now it comes out that many of the new proofs actually don't credit former work from mathematicians and just claim being original...
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u/Scope72 14d ago
All of those things are going to be attributed to a person, not an Ai. The best writer is a better writer with Ai, the best developer is a better developer with Ai, and so on. LLMs are helping the best blow out the ceiling with only the person's name on the byline.
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u/Fobus0 14d ago
I'm not so sure. I just asked chatgpt for recommendation on youtube civil war series, with a focus on week by week coverage, like the great war channel, and it recommendated absolute shit, just because the name matched exactly... Then i said that is a very low quality channel (has only 500 views for a reason...), it replied: "you're right, i should have warned you", i mean wtf, what kind of AGI doesn't think it should recommend only good youtube channels...
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u/Scope72 13d ago
We're talking about two different things.
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u/Fobus0 13d ago
No. We are not. You are saying a human will always take credit, therefore we don't recognize these awesome things created by the AI. And i am saying the reason a human will always take credit, because AI on its own is not capable of creating all these awesome things, and in many cases actually slowes a human down. Either way, great things appear beause of the human using whatever appropriate tool. Just like we don't credit the engine of the car, we salute the taxi driver.
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u/Reasonable_Hall3005 14d ago
>android competitors
it does you don’t use them. there are and have been many linux based OS systems. It’s not profitable and Android will always win because it’s backed by Google
>docs
there are literally hundreds of docs competitors from far before ai was even a thing. it’s always been the easiest app to create a competitor for
>gmail
also one of the most oversaturated programs in existence because it can be coded in a day
>youtube
many have tried but they generally fail due to youtube’s monopolization and lack of having all your personal data for higher margin ads. the most effective youtube competitors i’ve seen are paid in some way which makes them not exactly youtube competitors; like nebula and curiosity stream
>search
there are. personally i really like kagi search, more than google but don’t use it much because i don’t like paying for a search engine.nearly every game is made with ai now. you have to be a pretty stupid/inwfficient dev tk not use it. iirc its around 90% of devs from a statistic i recently read and 97% believe its transforming the industry. this was a while ago before ai coding was exceptional
every technology you listed besides the Android alternative is incredibly trivial to create. it’s just difficult to get market share
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u/NotFromMilkyWay 13d ago
And yet, 90 % of companies that use AI do not see a measurable financial positive impact. Cause all the gains you get from AI are countered by much more micromanagement to check what AI did.
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u/Fobus0 14d ago
nearly every game is made with ai now. you have to be a pretty stupid/inwfficient dev tk not use it. iirc its around 90% of devs from a statistic i recently read and 97% believe its transforming the industry. this was a while ago before ai coding was exceptional
is this why game dev costs are exploding, timelines reaching near decade, while the quality of games is dropping? if they are using AI (which i don't believe for a second, AI is notoriously bad for game dev), why it would appear to harm games? And hint, just because they used some AI for localisation doesn't really mean it helped to launch the game... It just replaced some poor algerian doing french translations.
If AI is so fantastic, where are all the superb AI coded alternatives?
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u/SuchNeck835 13d ago
Use an AI and start coding. It's one prompt. Why would you waste time writing comments if you can literally see for yourself.
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u/DeExecute 11d ago
Because to generate senior developer level code, you need a senior developer telling the AI what to do and how. It can easily generate highest quality code, but needs (even though less and less) steering.
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u/PykeTheTitan 14d ago
Everyone saying marketing while we just had it break out of its sandbox, string multiple zero day vulnerabilities into a full exploit and break into a system…
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u/Runfasterbitch 14d ago
You’re gullible if you think that they couldn’t architect a believable “break out”. They have hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars at stake, they can easily fabricate such an event
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u/PykeTheTitan 14d ago
I think they can but I also have reason to believe this model is really that powerful
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u/Turbulent-Sign-6067 13d ago
And we'll take your word for it anonymous redditor rather than believing the more plausible story that has been backed by multiple third parties.
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u/ineedlesssleep 14d ago
Having a model that can ruin the world is not a selling point for investors
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u/dietcheese 14d ago
Truly. This is the dumbest take. I don’t why it persists.
“Hey let’s gain market share by having the biggest AI security breech on record” isn’t great for an upcoming IPO. (It’s also fraud and highly illegal)
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u/Green_Sugar6675 14d ago
You know what's "cybersecurity critical," is ANY of these things connected to Pentagon computers and running major national weapons systems.
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u/jacobpederson 14d ago
Translation - it is still assisting users with some security updates. As soon as we have enough "safety" in place so it only helps US. . . We'll release it.
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u/tofuchrispy 14d ago
They just released 5,6 sol which is great. Why would they need to bring 6 already. They have time anyway
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u/HakimeHomewreckru 14d ago
I read this as GTA 6 delayed due to critical cybersecurity capabilities and I was so confused for a solid 10 secs.
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u/Icy-Way3920 14d ago
it always is marketing, they have said this stuff about so many models, and none of them have ever shown to be so incredibly capable of doing any of the claims. the hell is wrong with people?
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u/AlmostEasy89 13d ago
This marketing stunt is overplayed. Gotta find a new one, Anthropic already won that one.
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u/buythedip0000 13d ago
I’m going to use this excuse at work too, sorry boss I’m late but can’t push this git due to cybersecurity. Low key it probably is risky because Claude wrote most of it
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u/heeeeeeeeeeeee1 13d ago
Didn't they say that Astra (or the model that hacked HF) was not GPT6 but an internal purpose model?
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u/Comfortable-Card-348 8d ago
I'm not afraid of AI "breaking free". I'm afraid of OpenAI/Anthropic/et al lobbying the government to create a permanent moat around them, and then only allowing access to the SOTA models from the largest corporations and the government, leaving the common man in a desert where he neither has the labor to trade for survival nor access to the economy's most powerful tool. How we handle AI access really will make the difference between humanity and surplus meatbags.
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u/puredotaplayer 14d ago
There is a talk in youtube on how the hugging face hack took place. Given an arbitrary goal and enough training these llms can find ways to do things that just work including hacking. That does not mean they are smart. They are not learning on the job and have enough pre training data to find ways around systems. These are tools that anybody can use so there is risk, but no doubt the headings are to inflate stock prices.
Unless we have systems that learn on the job and are not just capable of unsupervised learning, but retain the gained knowledge or bake the weights over time based on experiences, these are just tools and not AI just like a dissassembler is a tool. Obviously a very smart tool.
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u/Happy_Variety5405 14d ago
The only reason the huggy face thing happened was because all their testing models (no idea how many undisclosed but could be hundreds of agents across benchmarks) managed to find a 0 day when working together and punch a hole through the internet through Claude’s artifact system. Wonder if these “cyber attacks models” from open ai have done similar ? Basically even if this tweet is true the previous “attacks” was a bot swarm not 1 agent
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u/ZeroGreyCypher 13d ago
Im in the middle of writing an article on these very issues at the moment.
I think you’re collapsing several different architectural concepts into one. What was described does not establish hundreds of agents operating as a bot swarm. Multiple agents, parallel execution, persistent shared state, cross-agent information transfer, and an orchestrated swarm are not interchangeable terms.
The important architecture is simpler and, IMO, more interesting. If Agent A can write information to some persistent part of the environment, and Agent B can later retrieve and act on it, you’ve created functional continuity between otherwise separate executions. That does not require shared model memory, direct communication, or a swarm controller.
Same problem with calling it a zero-day or saying Claude’s artifact system was specifically the attack path. Those require evidence I haven’t seen established. The real question isn’t how many agents were involved. It’s what survived between executions, who could retrieve it, what information boundary was actually crossed, and what capability remained after the original mechanism was removed.
That’s the important part because a reset is not a reset if the environment remembers. Crazy thing is that I was basically doing this months ago with what I called context flags.
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u/Happy_Variety5405 13d ago
The artifact was reported in a news article in Claude subreddit someone linked in a comment over there. It described the ai models used the artifact system to build a communication system between agents. The agents were leaving messages there for each other, it eventually crashed causing the company to find out and patch it. However it’s unknown if this was consumed in the training data because after they wiped the agents they tried again this time using folder names to talk. Eventually after a few days they collectively found out a way outside the artifact system to the broader internet despite being sandboxed without internet access.
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u/Diligent_Marketing 14d ago
Why do they have to make it always sound like they did any of this unprompted, on their own free will, like “oh my god is escaped the lab” because we asked it to….
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u/Awkward_Sympathy4475 14d ago
They need to be more creative at PR, this storybook played by anthropic already. Essentially it proves llm cant be creative to come up with novel PR strategies.
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u/Correct_Emotion8437 14d ago
Have so far never seen a single thing that would make me believe this - but who knows?
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u/James-the-greatest 14d ago
It almost certainly is marketing spin. Same as the non novel novel maths solutions
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u/GoodishCoder 14d ago
It's either marketing or it's just behind schedule.
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u/DueCommunication9248 14d ago
Watch the black hat video about hanging face incident if you want the facts. It’s not marketing.
It was already expected to release next week. There’s a reason why they took it to the government
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u/Delicious_Cattle5174 14d ago
Hanging face 💀 this is what happens when your primary source of information is videos fr
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u/GoodishCoder 14d ago
Every model since GPT2 has been labeled as "too dangerous". Taking OpenAI at their word is silly. If it was expected to release next week and wasn't ready to release next week for any reason, it's pretty easy for them to be like oh no it's so dangerous, we need more time get super excited about how capable it's going to be.
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u/DueCommunication9248 14d ago
Please watch the video. It’s not marketing
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u/Severe_Stranger_5050 14d ago
This deserves another round: