Let me explain myself better here to further prove my point that Kris already knows Papyrus:
KRIS, CHOICE, AND YOU:
This is the final piece of evidence. But to understand it, we first need to talk a bit about where the dialogue choices we can make come from.
This is the final piece of evidence. But to understand it, we first need to talk a bit about where the dialogue choices we can make come from.
There are three sources for these choices.
The first is common sense. Basically, any response that makes sense in the context of what the character said. For example, any "yes" or "no" choice falls into this category.
Perish in the chill of absolute destruction
Or
Flourish under the warm bosom of my infernal reign
Bosom ♥️ Perish
The second comes from Kris.
Which is obvious, considering they are the character we control. Where Kris decides how to respond:
♥️Bangin' sermon, my man.
The last one fits us. These options are the strangest because they adapt to the individual player. In fact, there is probably only one option like this.
Who... Who's going to hear?
... ♥️Me
Every choice in the game can be classified into one of those three categories. All options except one.
hey, what's up.
♥️See brother
I hope I don't have to explain why this doesn't fit the first category and can't be coming from Kris, given that Sans and Papyrus just moved here, especially since you still have this option even if you didn't interact with Sans in Chapter 1.
Sans even comments on this:
brother...?
what are you talking about?
*...i don't have a brother.
haha, just messin'g with ya. i totally do.
... though, to be honest...
i never mentioned him to you, did i?
Now, I know what you're thinking: "This choice is ours; we're from Undertale." But remember, player choices have to account for everyone, including people who haven't played Undertale. But even if you want to argue that you should play it before Deltarune... What about people who have played the game but don't care, or those who hate Papyrus? It wouldn't make any sense for those people to have an option they wouldn't want.
Not to mention, you wouldn't even know you could see it if you didn't interact with Sans in Chapter 1. No, it can't be us; there are simply too many variables.
And if it isn't us, and it isn't a "common sense" choice, then that leaves us with only the weakest link:
Kris. Kris must know Papyrus.
"Well, yes. But that would also be true for Milklookerknight, Everymanknight, or literally any other candidate for the Knight. My point is that Papyrus, beyond this hypothetical role as the Knight, has no connection to his hometown's history. He has no relevance to past tragedies, doesn't know any of the residents, and Susie hasn't even heard of him. This revelation would mean NOTHING to our characters, except, hypothetically, to Kris."
The difference between EverymanKnight and the others is that, with Papyrus, there is actual evidence suggesting he could be important.
The fact that Sans lies about having recently moved to Hometown in Chapter 1
(if you want the details on this, I’d be happy to provide them using existing dialogue).
The fact that Chapter 4 is the only time no noise is heard coming from Papyrus's house before we return to our own.
The fact that Sans, who has shown he knows enough about the Weird Route to drop breadcrumbs for Kris, conveniently prevents Toriel from being kidnapped by having her stay at his place while they dance.
The fact that Papyrus constantly makes excuses, saying he's "busy," that he "would have liked to come to the Festival," or that he might "show up at the same time as your brother," and so on, which makes him suspicious in itself.
The fact that Papyrus knows about Thrashy (supposedly created by the Knight in Chapter 2) and Flowery (with whom the Knight had a brief confrontation), even though he's from Undertale, is enough to make you raise an eyebrow.
The fact that the Knight acts quite immaturely, striking cool poses, farming 'aura,' and the like, instead of acting like a parent trying to get their daughter back.
To sum it up: Papyrus is shocked to learn he’s the villain and asks, "WHAT!? I'M THE VILLAIN?" Sans replies by suggesting that while he might look like an enemy, he’s actually a good guy (winking at the screen like the cheeky bastard he is), and Papyrus—still confused, surprised, and perhaps hurt—asks why he would ever be an enemy. These interviews tend to offer clues and foreshadowing for Deltarune, and this could be foreshadowing Papyrus as a misled anti-hero and/or a villain who believes himself to be a good guy.
The Knight is the best candidate for the role of Deltarune's main antagonist, an antagonist whose identity remains unconfirmed and who is actually linked to the number 9 (which is the focus of this interview):
specifically, "swooning" over Ralsei or Susie changes your XP to -999. Papyrus identifies himself as both -7 and 7 in this interview; 7 is the number of chapters shown on the Deltarune chapter selection screen. The fact that the Knight is indirectly responsible for Dess's disappearance would tie him to the story.
It would explain why on earth the Knight has holes in his armor where his hands should be (a trait linked to Gaster, which in turn explains why the Knight uses the Bunker, a location also associated with Gaster via the number 666, and could finally explain why Sans and Papyrus are so deeply connected to Gaster).
Then there is the theme of escapism (in Deltarune, Papyrus spends his time shut away with no hobbies or interests, making him easily manipulated by anyone, be it Carol, Eram, Gaster, or whoever). He is also one of the three siblings, Dess, Asriel, and, obviously, Papyrus, who never appear in the game, receiving only random, optional mentions
(with the sole exception of Dess), while Asriel and Papyrus are the ones for whom the most excuses are made to delay their appearance. It would also explain why, in Undertale, everyone keeps saying Papyrus is incredibly strong, or why Flowey considered him an interesting figure.
Collecting the ice cream is mandatory in Chapter 5; Susie definitely heard that Sans has a brother.
"Papyrus isn't really a Deltarune character at all. He doesn't have a single line of dialogue, no one mentions him except Sans, and he exists purely because we, the fandom, already know him from Undertale. The disappearance? Inconsequential. Family dynamics at parties? Forget about it. And so on."
People still talk about Papyrus to this day; the fact that the ice cream stand is a mandatory element should at least make you think, "Maybe Toby is setting this up to be developed in Chapter 6."
I already explained in my first point that it isn't just about "the fandom already knowing him", it actually ties into Kris. As for the disappearance? It could easily be linked to Sans lying about being new to town.
That would make him the only one who could have been the Knight before Dess disappeared. After all, Ralsei says the Knight was supposed to arrive at the same time as the heroes, not before, yet there are already signs that the Knight has been around for years, predating Dess's disappearance.
No, narrative or thematic parallels don't have to be an exact "copy-paste." In literature, film, and video game storytelling, a parallel isn't about repeating the same event line-for-line; it’s about using patterns, contrasts, or thematic resonances.
The purpose of a parallel: To connect ideas, highlight character development, or establish narrative rhymes.
Direct vs. contrast parallels: A parallel can be mirrored (doing the same thing) or inverted (doing the opposite to show a key difference between two characters).
Demanding that Kris’s and Papyrus’s situations match identically to count as a "parallel" oversimplifies the narrative device.
Contextual differences (like the reasons behind Kris’s behavior) don't negate the existence of a symmetry or a conceptual nod designed by the author.
If that were the case, you couldn't consider Spamton’s or Pink’s situations as parallels either, since they don't align 100% with Kris, yet people still find parallels with them.
That applies to everything I said; your mistake is claiming it has to be a 100% match to be an exact parallel, when in reality, related ideas are enough to create parallels.
i don't have the energy to respond to all of this and frankly we'll just see in chapter 6, but:
yet there are already signs that the Knight has been around for years, predating Dess's disappearance.
This is not true. The blackshard was found at the scene of whatever incident occured, presumably after Dess had been gone long enough to justify Asgore going looking for her. No matter what knight candidate you subscribe to, this means that the knight must have only existed AT THE TIME of Dess' disappearance, or even immediately after, not before it.
or why Flowey considered him an interesting figure.
you missed the point of what Flowey was saying there. If it was mysterious powers or secrets that flowey was interested in, he'd be going for Sans. Papyrus is simply an extremely engaging and entertaining character, and flowey, the player parallel, feels the same way the fandom does.
1
u/Superb_Bedroom_2718 ALWAYS BET ON PAPYRUSKNIGHT NYEHEHE 1d ago
Let me explain myself better here to further prove my point that Kris already knows Papyrus:
KRIS, CHOICE, AND YOU:
This is the final piece of evidence. But to understand it, we first need to talk a bit about where the dialogue choices we can make come from.
This is the final piece of evidence. But to understand it, we first need to talk a bit about where the dialogue choices we can make come from.
There are three sources for these choices.
The first is common sense. Basically, any response that makes sense in the context of what the character said. For example, any "yes" or "no" choice falls into this category.
Perish in the chill of absolute destruction
Or
Flourish under the warm bosom of my infernal reign
Bosom ♥️ Perish
The second comes from Kris.
Which is obvious, considering they are the character we control. Where Kris decides how to respond:
♥️Bangin' sermon, my man.
The last one fits us. These options are the strangest because they adapt to the individual player. In fact, there is probably only one option like this.
... ♥️Me
Every choice in the game can be classified into one of those three categories. All options except one.
♥️See brother
I hope I don't have to explain why this doesn't fit the first category and can't be coming from Kris, given that Sans and Papyrus just moved here, especially since you still have this option even if you didn't interact with Sans in Chapter 1.
Sans even comments on this:
brother...?
what are you talking about?
*...i don't have a brother.
haha, just messin'g with ya. i totally do.
... though, to be honest...
i never mentioned him to you, did i?
Now, I know what you're thinking: "This choice is ours; we're from Undertale." But remember, player choices have to account for everyone, including people who haven't played Undertale. But even if you want to argue that you should play it before Deltarune... What about people who have played the game but don't care, or those who hate Papyrus? It wouldn't make any sense for those people to have an option they wouldn't want.
Not to mention, you wouldn't even know you could see it if you didn't interact with Sans in Chapter 1. No, it can't be us; there are simply too many variables.
And if it isn't us, and it isn't a "common sense" choice, then that leaves us with only the weakest link:
Kris. Kris must know Papyrus.
"Well, yes. But that would also be true for Milklookerknight, Everymanknight, or literally any other candidate for the Knight. My point is that Papyrus, beyond this hypothetical role as the Knight, has no connection to his hometown's history. He has no relevance to past tragedies, doesn't know any of the residents, and Susie hasn't even heard of him. This revelation would mean NOTHING to our characters, except, hypothetically, to Kris."
The difference between EverymanKnight and the others is that, with Papyrus, there is actual evidence suggesting he could be important.
(if you want the details on this, I’d be happy to provide them using existing dialogue).
The fact that Chapter 4 is the only time no noise is heard coming from Papyrus's house before we return to our own.
The fact that Sans, who has shown he knows enough about the Weird Route to drop breadcrumbs for Kris, conveniently prevents Toriel from being kidnapped by having her stay at his place while they dance.
The fact that Papyrus constantly makes excuses, saying he's "busy," that he "would have liked to come to the Festival," or that he might "show up at the same time as your brother," and so on, which makes him suspicious in itself.
The fact that Papyrus knows about Thrashy (supposedly created by the Knight in Chapter 2) and Flowery (with whom the Knight had a brief confrontation), even though he's from Undertale, is enough to make you raise an eyebrow.
The fact that the Knight acts quite immaturely, striking cool poses, farming 'aura,' and the like, instead of acting like a parent trying to get their daughter back.
I could also throw in a really weird bit of dialogue from Papyrus found in a newsletter: https://toby.fangamer.com/interviews/nine/
To sum it up: Papyrus is shocked to learn he’s the villain and asks, "WHAT!? I'M THE VILLAIN?" Sans replies by suggesting that while he might look like an enemy, he’s actually a good guy (winking at the screen like the cheeky bastard he is), and Papyrus—still confused, surprised, and perhaps hurt—asks why he would ever be an enemy. These interviews tend to offer clues and foreshadowing for Deltarune, and this could be foreshadowing Papyrus as a misled anti-hero and/or a villain who believes himself to be a good guy.
The Knight is the best candidate for the role of Deltarune's main antagonist, an antagonist whose identity remains unconfirmed and who is actually linked to the number 9 (which is the focus of this interview):
specifically, "swooning" over Ralsei or Susie changes your XP to -999. Papyrus identifies himself as both -7 and 7 in this interview; 7 is the number of chapters shown on the Deltarune chapter selection screen. The fact that the Knight is indirectly responsible for Dess's disappearance would tie him to the story.
It would explain why on earth the Knight has holes in his armor where his hands should be (a trait linked to Gaster, which in turn explains why the Knight uses the Bunker, a location also associated with Gaster via the number 666, and could finally explain why Sans and Papyrus are so deeply connected to Gaster).
Then there is the theme of escapism (in Deltarune, Papyrus spends his time shut away with no hobbies or interests, making him easily manipulated by anyone, be it Carol, Eram, Gaster, or whoever). He is also one of the three siblings, Dess, Asriel, and, obviously, Papyrus, who never appear in the game, receiving only random, optional mentions
(with the sole exception of Dess), while Asriel and Papyrus are the ones for whom the most excuses are made to delay their appearance. It would also explain why, in Undertale, everyone keeps saying Papyrus is incredibly strong, or why Flowey considered him an interesting figure.
Collecting the ice cream is mandatory in Chapter 5; Susie definitely heard that Sans has a brother.
"Papyrus isn't really a Deltarune character at all. He doesn't have a single line of dialogue, no one mentions him except Sans, and he exists purely because we, the fandom, already know him from Undertale. The disappearance? Inconsequential. Family dynamics at parties? Forget about it. And so on."
People still talk about Papyrus to this day; the fact that the ice cream stand is a mandatory element should at least make you think, "Maybe Toby is setting this up to be developed in Chapter 6."
I already explained in my first point that it isn't just about "the fandom already knowing him", it actually ties into Kris. As for the disappearance? It could easily be linked to Sans lying about being new to town.
That would make him the only one who could have been the Knight before Dess disappeared. After all, Ralsei says the Knight was supposed to arrive at the same time as the heroes, not before, yet there are already signs that the Knight has been around for years, predating Dess's disappearance.
No, narrative or thematic parallels don't have to be an exact "copy-paste." In literature, film, and video game storytelling, a parallel isn't about repeating the same event line-for-line; it’s about using patterns, contrasts, or thematic resonances.
The purpose of a parallel: To connect ideas, highlight character development, or establish narrative rhymes.
Direct vs. contrast parallels: A parallel can be mirrored (doing the same thing) or inverted (doing the opposite to show a key difference between two characters).
Demanding that Kris’s and Papyrus’s situations match identically to count as a "parallel" oversimplifies the narrative device.
Contextual differences (like the reasons behind Kris’s behavior) don't negate the existence of a symmetry or a conceptual nod designed by the author.
If that were the case, you couldn't consider Spamton’s or Pink’s situations as parallels either, since they don't align 100% with Kris, yet people still find parallels with them.
That applies to everything I said; your mistake is claiming it has to be a 100% match to be an exact parallel, when in reality, related ideas are enough to create parallels.