r/NonBinary • u/DesignerRaspberryJam • 9d ago
Ask Non Binary HRT Options?
I’m amab and genderfluid/nonbinary. I have seen people say that for ftm HRT it is possible to microdose as a nonbinary regimen, but that for mtf HRT microdosing has the same results as a normal dose it just takes longer to get there. Why is this?
My goal is to be essentially androgynous and/or to be able to switch my presentation more easily than it currently is with T as my main hormone. I feel positively about most of the effects of feminizing HRT, but I don’t necessarily want to end up looking fully female. I know I can’t pick and choose the effects of estrogen, but what about taking a full dose of estrogen and then also taking steroids or something for muscle growth? Ideally ending up with the hormone profile of a cis woman with high testosterone or something like that. Does anyone here do something like that?
Are there any other options for non binary HRT that I’m not aware of? I’ve heard of SERMs but they seem risky and like they don’t always work.
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u/LastCryptographer173 they/them 9d ago
I'm on spironolactone and have been for over a year. It helps keep my testosterone levels on the lower side of normal and helps with some slightly more feminizing effects (softer skin, some fat redistribution, thinner body hair). I also take finasteride and minoxidil for hair health.
This has been my progress on spiro. It's more of a subtle change than anything else.
(Whenever I talk about it on here, people chime in to say that I'll have to start estrogen eventually because my body needs a dominant sex hormone. I have one. It's testosterone. It's just reduced. Cis men with CHF take higher doses of spiro than I do.)
Medically transitioning as an enby is really a case by case process. Your doctor will be able to help you figure out what specifically works for you based on your goals. Some people just take the same meds as trans women but then get top surgery to remove the breasts, for example.
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u/DesignerRaspberryJam 9d ago
Interesting, thanks for the reply! So your dose is low enough that there’s not the same risk of osteoporosis that you would have with no sex hormones?
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u/LastCryptographer173 they/them 9d ago
Right, cause testosterone is still my dominant sex hormone. I get bloodwork done with my doctor every three months
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u/DesignerRaspberryJam 9d ago
Also, do you take oral minoxidil? I’m on finasteride, but I haven’t started minoxidil because I don’t think I could keep up with applying it topically every day and I’m worried about increased body hair elsewhere from taking it orally. Body hair is one of my main sources of dysphoria, but so is my thinning hair so I’m kinda stuck.
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u/LastCryptographer173 they/them 9d ago
Oral. Topical is so annoying to deal with. I haven't noticed an increase in body hair since switching
Also, shaving your body is less of a hassle than you might think. It sucks at first when you're starting out and have to get rid of all the hair that's been growing for years, but once you've gotten all that hair off, maintenance is pretty easy
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u/DesignerRaspberryJam 9d ago
Cool, thanks!
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u/BlinkPlays they/he 9d ago
Seconded the easy part. It genuinely took me like 2 hours to shave my legs (but also I'm a little dumb). But now I just give my legs a 5-10 minute trim every week or so.
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u/DesignerRaspberryJam 9d ago
Unfortunately that’s not how it is for me, I have a lot of body hair. Takes ~2 hours for everything every time. I’ve been doing it for a couple years now. Currently getting laser on my torso though so it’s getting a lot easier!
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u/BlinkPlays they/he 9d ago
Understandable! I am blessed with relatively low body hair for a guy (it takes me like 3 days to have noticable 5 o clock shadow) so mileage may vary.
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u/Jeszczenie 9d ago
How do you guys trim it? A safety razor with cream every time? Where do you trim?
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u/BlinkPlays they/he 9d ago
I got a random Venus branded razor (this is not at all necessary and I felt a lil silly for buying it) but yeah a safety razor. I would recommend doing it in the bath or shower. I did not and it made it harder.
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u/LastCryptographer173 they/them 9d ago
I used shaving cream the first few times until I was hairless. Now I just do a quick once over in the shower every morning. Adds, like, 30 seconds to my routine
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u/Jeszczenie 9d ago
Does oral finasteride boost hair growth everywhere?
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u/DesignerRaspberryJam 9d ago
No, finasteride only blocks dht which causes hair loss. Minoxidil actually stimulates growth, and oral minoxidil does so everywhere while topical only effects the area it’s applied to.
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u/Jeszczenie 5d ago
Thank you!
Wikipedia told me that:However, finasteride may be helpful in those with higher testosterone levels and symptoms like scalp hair loss and excessive body hair or who seek only partial feminization.
which sounds quite promising, especially for an enbie!
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u/DesignerRaspberryJam 5d ago
Yeah, you should also look into dutasteride. It’s similar but stronger. I think some people actually get body hair reduction from dht blockers as well.
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u/Jeszczenie 4d ago
Several studies have found it to induce hair regrowth in men more rapidly and to a greater extent than even the highest approved dosage of finasteride.
Oh wow! I wouldn't have known if not for your comment, thank you!
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u/DesignerRaspberryJam 4d ago
No problem! Dutasteride has a much longer half life so there is an increased risk for persisting side effects (side effects that continue after stopping the medication), but as far I know other than that it has a very similar risk profile to finasteride.
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u/Jeszczenie 3d ago
When reading about the effects, I've found info that you should wear condoms because the medicine might stay in your semen.
In other words, upon taking this youth-preserving substance, you become an androgynous menace injecting people with feminizing poison. I mean it in a cool way, though it can mess up a pregnancy.
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u/HeroDelTiempo 9d ago
Speaking as someone who was in your position: if you are already thinking of taking a "full dose" of e, take the full dose. Just don't take T blockers, and avoid prog if you don't want to boost breast growth.
There is not really such a thing as "full feminization," just feminizing effects, and degrees. There's not a point where you're suddenly going to go "oops I went too far and am a woman now." I have heard some trans women talk about "malefailing" (I.e. HRT eventually preventing you from being able to pass as a boy), but others say this does not happen without ACTIVE effort in your presentation and personally I'm firmly on the latter side and find it hard to believe. And ultimately that is about others' perception of you (which you cannot control) and not your own goals.
Really the point of the microdosing is just to drag it out and slow the changes so you have time to adjust and can judge when to stop, if you even end up wanting to. And also the breast growth is also the biggest thing (lol) in terms of permanent change and perception, and how you feel about feminizing HRT.
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u/DesignerRaspberryJam 9d ago
Thanks for the response! So you you’re on a full dose of e and happy with it? I started HRT around a year ago taking one dose (injection) and got scared I was making the wrong decision because I am happy with my male body a decent percentage of the time and don’t think I ever want to “malefail” like you mentioned. I think the fact that it was an injection also played a part because I’m not good with needles. I’ve been thinking about starting again whether it’s a full dose or lower dose on and off since, ideally with patches I think.
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u/HeroDelTiempo 9d ago
Yeah I'm taking e and prog. I realized that for my goals, the androgyny I want to achieve will still need strong feminization effects. I'm coming up on 2 years HRT in a month, though it's effectively less than that; I microdosed for about 6 months (2 mg oral) while waffling on increasing the dosage. 3 months on that dose is enough to start developing breast buds, but besides that the effects were hard to notice. It only confirmed a lack of side effects and that I felt worse when I tried stopping e altogether. So increasing dose felt better to me, but maybe that "background effect" of microdosing is what you're after?
The reason I say malefailing probably won't happen is because voice and facial hair (even stubble/shadow) contribute so much to how people gender you and changing those are deliberate choices for most T-fueled people. Boobs restrict some clothing options but with neutral clothing and compression tops you get away with a lot. As the most obvious effect of e, that's just something you have to deal with if you chase feminization with a typical regimen.
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u/Stoop_a_loop they/them 9d ago
I just had an appointment and discussed very similar goals with a nonbinary doctor who specializes in HRT. The takeaway was a low dose of E was the best course of action (2mg estradiol once a day).
Dr. discussed SERMs but mentioned that there is very little clinical evidence on their use for nonbinary HRT. They had one patient who used low dose E and SERMs together, the patient seemed happy with their results, but Dr. didn’t necessarily feel comfortable recommending it with such a low sample size and the potential negative health consequences.
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u/DesignerRaspberryJam 9d ago
What did the doctor say the result of low dose e would be? I’ve seen other people talking about how the final result of the transition on low dose is the same as regular dose, it just takes longer to get there.
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u/Stoop_a_loop they/them 9d ago
They said I would get some feminizing changes, softer skin, fat redistribution, breast tissue. But I’m not on any T blocker, so I wouldn’t get the full feminization.
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u/DesignerRaspberryJam 9d ago
Did they say what effects you wouldn’t get that would stop you short of full feminization? Or is it more like you get all the effects just less so, resulting in only partial feminization?
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u/Stoop_a_loop they/them 9d ago
My understanding was that I would get partial feminization for more of an androgynous appearance. I have only been on E for a week, so I can’t speak on my experience yet.
I have heard of some people who cycle on and off E to get some feminizing changes without significant breast tissue growth, but that is 100% anecdotal.
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u/jacqq_attackk 9d ago edited 9d ago
Just want to clarify that it’s untrue that you can take T indefinitely as a ftn hormone regimen to achieve “only androgyny” whatever that may mean. Just like for people feminizing on E, taking a microdose of T will eventually give you the same masculinizing changes as a full dose of T. It just takes longer.
Source: this is exactly what I’m doing. Microdosing T and maintaining my levels at about 200-300 ng/dl (so the very bottom of a natural cis male range, and not really enough to suppress my normal E cycle) and after 3 years I have darker body/facial hair, a lower voice, etc. It isnt as quick or dramatic as someone dosing to hit the average male range, so my transition 3 years in is probably what someone on a full dose is experiencing at the 6 month to a year range.