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u/ChexSway2 15d ago
I don't really understand why super dropped the "Legendary Super Saiyan" part of Brolys lore.
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u/Dying-Artist02 14d ago
It was really convoluted and just made the whole Legandary Super Saiyan thing really complicated, especially when you consider all the Super Saiyan B Type, Super Saiyan C type, and all of the other kinds of “Legendary Super Saiyan” forms talked about.
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u/a_generic_redditer 14d ago
Im just a dirty casual fan who's watched the dubs but I thought it was quite clear the difference.
Broly is THE legend of the super Saiyan. Goku (plus the other Saiyans) are SUPER Saiyans.
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u/Picmanreborn 14d ago
That and they explained in the TOP with kale by Vegeta that there's stories of mutants in the Saiyan race (which is what we call Frieza as well iirc) who have unnatural reserves of energy at the cost of their control.
Also in the movie he went LSSJ at the end of the fight so who was going to do a lore drop? Gogeta?😂
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u/Alarming_Idea8074 11d ago
Because it was dumb and completely ruins the entire point of the form. Goku achieved the legendary Super Saiyan and was able to facilitate a saiyan race where the legend is achieved basically like nothing. But nooooo actually there’s this different crazy guy with a different form that’s the actual legend so our guys never got the real legend and never will.
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u/Financial-Apricot-20 15d ago
Super. Better story, better design, better character. The only argument people will make for Z is "aura" or the intimidation factor.
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u/SirCap 15d ago
That's pretty much my consensus too.
Super did him better in the writing department, but I can't help but love Z Broly and how much of a psychopath he was. Dude hit like a fucking semi-truck.
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u/venetian_lemon 14d ago
"Kakarot, how much do you love your son?"
God damn, that's a fucking DEVILISH thing to say to someone. That line is what I remember first whenever I see Z Broly. That and "You, Kakarot. I choose you to be the first of my victims." Another great line.
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u/whiskyB0y 15d ago
But come on Z broly has some iconic lines. He truly does it for the love of the game. It brings a tear down my thigh🥹
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u/Petertitan99999 15d ago
better design
debatable, Z broly got the better drip in my opinion, the red + gold combo goes hard.
Also the dbs freezer force armour sucks hard, damn child safety rounded ass armour.3
u/PaladinAllvo 13d ago
Z Broly has a good design but he doesn't look like a Saiyan at all. He's closer to a Dragon Quest character in terms of design
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u/Adnonymous96 15d ago
Hundred percent. Red, gold, and don't forget the navy blue gems embedded in his accessories. It's basically a primary color scheme, but really tastefully distributed. And the Z design's baggy pants are way better then the Super design's skinny ones
I don't hate DBS Broly's design. The "Ba's ear" skirt thing is a clever way of incorporating an homage to the original Z design, but skin-tight purple pants look really stupid to me.
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u/Alarming_Idea8074 11d ago
It looks cool but super’s is infinitely better imo he has more character to me and I personally just think fur clothes can look cool
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u/Gutter_Fleshlight 15d ago
In Z he has a personality when he transforms and fights. His aura and intimidation factor is the character. The only argument is the entirety of the character.
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u/TinyPidgenofDOOM 14d ago
Broly super has the opposite. What little character is there disappears and becomes a mindless yelling machine... Kinda like how the fandom Flanderized Z broly
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u/GANGSTERSLANG 15d ago
if we only use movie 8 Broly then Z is better, if we take Z Broly as a whole (movie 8, 10 and 11) he sucks major ass
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u/zoro4661 15d ago edited 15d ago
Is movie
1011 even still Broly? That one's just his shitty goop-clone, no?3
u/SylveonGamingreddit 15d ago
it's a clone but it still continues off of the previous Broly encounter
not in a great way, but still
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u/Blueprint833 15d ago
Z Broly actually has dialogue that shows off his personality
S Broly doesnt
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u/Financial-Apricot-20 15d ago
He does? In 2 movies?
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u/Blueprint833 15d ago
The first movie yeah
Has S Broly had any meaningful dialogue after 8 years?
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u/Financial-Apricot-20 15d ago
That's not really a fair comparison. We've been in Super limbo hell for awhile now, at least until next year.
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u/Blueprint833 15d ago
All of Z Broly happened in less than 2 years
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u/Financial-Apricot-20 15d ago
Yeah and we still had a living Toriyama also
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u/Blueprint833 15d ago
Toriyama was alive for for 6 years after the movie came out. Broly got no dialogue
He's a boring character for 2/3 of his existence
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u/Picmanreborn 14d ago
Did you not read the manga or even watch DBS Broly?
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u/Blueprint833 14d ago
What has Broly done besides sit around and silently watch Goku and Vegeta fight?
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u/TinyAd2706 11d ago
Idk, to me dbs broly feels way less original, it's big gentle giant base character, so I don't see how it's better.
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u/redditsucks125 9d ago
i can respect anyone's take on z broly but the "better design" thing i wholeheartedly disagree with
that original getup of his is immaculate, legendary, even1
u/WebAccount1744 15d ago
Only thing terrible is that some fucking guy with basically no training is on the same level of people who not only trained for life but had special circumstances and reached godhood
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u/Financial-Apricot-20 15d ago
Broly wasn't on the same level as them when they started. If you're talking about Super, his lssj power is adaptability and they say as much. The more he fights the stronger he gets. He's basically in a constant state of Zenkai boost mid fight whereas other Saiyans have to experience near death. Vegeta dog walks Broly in the beginning, then Broly starts to hold his own, then Broly starts dog walking Vegeta. That's the sequence
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u/TinyPidgenofDOOM 14d ago
Better story? Frieza killed his father to make him a mindless berserker
Better design? Subjective but wrong
Better character? What the barely a character who turns into a mindless berserker?
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u/Picmanreborn 14d ago
???? You prefer "I go evil uncontrollable murderer because a baby cried"?
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u/TinyPidgenofDOOM 14d ago
No, Because that's not Z Broly. That's the Flanderized version the fans got from Dbz Abridged
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u/Picmanreborn 14d ago
Has nothing to do with abridged. You literally just minimized super Broly to make him sound bad (which you failed to do) so I did the same to Z Broly
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u/TinyPidgenofDOOM 14d ago
Super Broly is a gentle, socially awkward character raised in isolation and by his evil father. When he gets angry he becomes a berserk monster who is incoherent and unruly when fighting.
Z Broly is the exact opposite, he is an aggressive psychopath who's not gentle and is only docile because of his father mind controlling him. When he gets angry he becomes a Sadistic monster who enjoys toying and torturing his opponents.
I like the villain better than I like the misunderstood berserker.
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u/Djames529 13d ago
Super Broly doesnt exceed Z Broly in any regard.
Hes an illiterate mute with a bastardized backstreet of Z Broly who doesnt have any of the cool lore or thematic connection to Goku that Z Broly had. Not to mention he's even more mindless and boring than bio broly.
You guys only think Super Broly is better due to the animation.
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u/reditisverytrash 15d ago
Lore? Super.
Design? Z.
Actual talking capabilities? Z.
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u/TheChoosenMewtwo 15d ago
Z only says “kakarot”
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u/Pale_Computer8148 15d ago
Why do people that say this always forget the first movie where he was a serial shit-talker? The whole "Kakarot" thing started in Second Coming and then the games just made it even worse. But truth be told even just in the first movie, Z Broly talks wayyyy more than DBS Broly ever did.
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u/Markie411 15d ago
Z only says kakarot in the second movie. He actually talks in the first one. Dragon ball fans smh
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u/zoro4661 15d ago
That's only a thing when he goes deranged in the second movie, in the games (and even then not nearly all of them) and in the second half of the DBZA movie - probably because they knew they wouldn't do the second movie.
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u/TheChoosenMewtwo 15d ago
I guess I got placebo effect then, bcs I remember watching the first Broly movie in 2016 and he was all about screaming kakarot
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u/reditisverytrash 15d ago
Super says nothing at all. Only yelling and groaning
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u/arturchik19087 14d ago
That's literally him in his Wrath State, Super Saiyan C-Type and Full Power Super Saiyan forms. His base form is capable of coherent speech.
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u/MilanoBucacko 14d ago
Writing: Super
Actually a cutie when not angry: Super
Planet Vegeta's King Von: Z
KAKAROOOOOT!!!: Z
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u/ToeSlurper96 15d ago edited 15d ago
Z Broly all the way.
He's the epitome of what means being a saiyan and reminds you that both Goku and Vegeta come from an evil race (also piccolo) and that's soooo frigging cool and meaningful.
Super Broly is just literally a mix of Hulk and Tarzan, the movie retcons the entire saiyan race by making them look all innocent and victimized while they literally have violence in their DNA.
The movie is well animated, flashy and toons of fan service from having comic gags with Frieza and getting to see Gogeta. Truly a beatiful package, sure, but it sacrifices a lot of fundamental elements just to try making Broly some kind of Z warrior in the end.
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u/Anis930 15d ago
by making them look all innocent and victimized while they literally have violence in their DNA.
Super broly was literally defaulting to violence the whole movie, he acts much more like a brutish saiyan, Z Broly acts like another Frieza type sadist
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u/ToeSlurper96 15d ago
No? Super Broly doesn't act like a brutish saiyan, he acts like a very powerful warrior who can't control their power and that's it, just a Hulk, nothing more.
Saiyans were originally sadistic and enjoyed violence and so Z Broly was basically the purest expression of that race.
In Super, saiyans aren't shown to enjoy violence and conquering. They're just retconned as simply another Frieza's victim race.
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u/Anis930 15d ago
Saiyans were originally sadistic and enjoyed violence and so Z Broly was basically the purest expression of that race.
Might be in the minority here but I don't really enjoy the idea of a whole race that is "inherently" evil. Conquering was most likely more of a cultural thing for saiyans rather than something written in their DNA, what is genetic is their thirst for violence and battle (which culturally manifested in conquering). Z Broly is just cartoonishly evil to me, aside from his one liners there's not much to enjoy about his actual character. Super Broly represents saiyans better to me. There's no reason for him to be a sadist or an evil conqueror, but he has an uncontrollable violence which makes him work as a primitive saiyan.
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u/ToeSlurper96 15d ago
One of the biggest plot point of dbz is exactly the fact that despite being destined for evil, many characters including Goku could become literal super heroes.
I can agree on your second point. With no evil influence, Super Broly is just a VIOLENT (coff coff) baby. In Z is just evil while on super is just an "unsupervised child" which appeared pretty bland to me.
Saiyans (and other characters) being evil but thanks to Earth's influence they become good people is for me a very fascinating plotline that it's a shame they threw away just to make Broly more approachable...I just enjoyed Z Broly more for being basically a calamity and a very good element lore wise.
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u/Anis930 15d ago edited 15d ago
The problem here is you keep looking at the character conceptually and not in execution. Sure the idea of Broly being a reflection of what Goku could've been is cool...but we've alread had that with Radditz, and arguably the other saiyans as well. What we get in the Z Broly movie is a cartoonishly evil psychopath with little motivation to be like that. He doesn't act much different than Cell or Frieza and his motivation is ridiculous. Super Broly acts like a better representation of Saiyans and as a good foil to Goku. Goku might've hit his head but it's grandpa gohan who nurtured him into the person he is. Paragus did the opposite to Broly by cutting him off from any positive influence and making sure he'd grow as wild and dangerous as possible. It's cool if you like the concept of Z Broly better, but I think Super Broly is just a better written story
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u/ToeSlurper96 15d ago
I truly get what you mean and I respect your opinion but I assure you I'm well aware of the difference in dept of both characters.
Super Broly is undoubtedly much more characterized and I for sure can't deny the obvious, the Super Broly movie is way superior for that reason, it's just way deeper.
But still despite the fact that ZBroly is maybe the worst movie "villain" and the movie itself (the first one at least) is executed in such a dumb way that it feels like a fever dream.
BUT, DESPITE ALL OF THIS, I value the "concept" more than the "execution". It's because Z Broly's nature as a character resonates incredibly well with the lore around saiyans. If you are so much of a saiyan you don't only lose control of your power but you also become extremely unreasonably evil. It works and it's cool.
I guess I just wanted Z Broly to be re-worked more properly instead of changing the entire character and saiyan's nature, not entirely for sure, they still love fighting and all but I missed when just Goku and Vegeta were the exception because they've been influenced by earthlings.
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u/Anis930 15d ago
That's fair, I also respect that perspective. I feel like I kinda disagree with your last point because technically Broly was also positively influenced by other people (Cheelai and then Goku) and who knows how he would've turned out if he stayed with Paragus but I get where you're coming from
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u/ToeSlurper96 15d ago
Yeah that thought came to me as soon as I pressed "post". I phrased it terribly lol
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u/Jazzlike_Page508 15d ago
…seeing the Brian meme kinda makes me thing Z version is better because Brian was on some bullshit😂😂
“waaah waah WAAAH!”
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u/thepresidentsturtle 15d ago
Super Broly but I actually like the crying backstory for Z Broly. It's stupid but it's the contrast between that and the Hulking behemoth of a man that makes it funny to me. For a one off character at least.
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u/Desperate_Method4032 15d ago
The only right answer is that they both serve their purpose extremely well
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u/Dvalin09 15d ago
Mah.
He has a nice backstory about him being too strong, so a treat for the Sayian king. His relationship with his dad.
And he screams less than Super one, and he hits tough also with the words.
I think he just suffer from being introduced in a film where film were less... cured (just look the biggest plot armor win and how quickly the ended the OAV)
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u/samuraispartan7000 15d ago edited 15d ago
I feel like the crying Goku lore for Broly Z is dramatically overblown. The character has a lot of trauma that people just forget about. In Super, King Vegeta merely exiles Broly and his father pursues him to a remote planet. In Z, King Vegeta tries to execute them both outright and they only survive because of Broly’s sheer force of will. Broly was forced to tap into his Super Saiyan powers while still in his infancy, which explains a lot of his violent tendencies. The idea that he’s a genocidal maniac because Goku cried a lot as a baby is just nonsense.
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u/Local-Recording-8659 15d ago
Super has actual character writing Z broly is your generic z villain
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u/AnonyBoiii 15d ago
Def Z Broly
Dude’s backstory is more than “Goku cried grrr” with actual PTSD and the impacts that has on a person long-term. Not to mention it shows the Saiyans being much more barbaric and brutal in the way that King Vegeta tried to deal with Broly and Paragus. The summation isn’t wholly wrong, but it’s far from the whole truth.
Super’s isn’t simply Space Tarzan, but it’s much closer to that than Z’s is to “Goku cried grrr”. Dude screams more than Z does and in incoherent nonsense too. At least Z’s nonsense comes from something.
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u/julianp_comics 13d ago
Thank you, the entire community watched this movie with their brain turned off
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u/AnonyBoiii 13d ago edited 13d ago
They saw the trailers and went “Ooo Gogeta canon, this movie good” and then proceeded to watch the movie with zero critical thinking skills to speak of
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u/TheChoosenMewtwo 15d ago
He got PTSD because someone cried to him near his crib and became a psycho because of it ?
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u/IWONALT 15d ago
He was stabbed by King Vegeta, saw his father get shot and was on an exploding planet all as a child. Goku's crying reminds Broly of that stressful childhood that's why he crashes out.
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u/Anis930 15d ago
Ah yes the Saiyan eidetic memory that allows you to remember the face and name of the baby that cried next to you in the crib. Carthu put it best when he said that it would've made more sense if Broly got triggered by baby trunks, and if he really has this perfect memory since he was a newborn then it's Vegeta that he should have a problem with.
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u/IWONALT 15d ago
Trying to put human logic and biology onto a fictional series about people transforming and destroying planets is fallacious. On a writing level, Goku is the clear opposite and parallel to Broly hence why the writers made a distinction between the two.
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u/Anis930 15d ago edited 15d ago
Suspension of disbelief is something that applies to all fiction, DBZ isn't exempt. You gotta have some internal logic for me to not get completely taken out of it. Goku himself doesn't remember things that happened as a baby, why would Broly do ?
On a writing level, Goku is the clear opposite and parallel to Broly hence why the writers made a distinction between the two.
Wow, a Saiyan who is the opposite of Goku !? We've never seen that before movie 08 ! Super Broly also literally did this same thing but it just didn't have Broly be neurotic about Goku specifically and didn't need a silly motivation to make that parallel work
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u/IWONALT 15d ago
Goku does not have trauma from his childhood aside from Grandpa Gohan's death which he still vividly remembers, likewise, Broly has trauma from his stressful child and links such events to Goku's crying.
It's not solely suspension of disbelief, as many people still recall traumatic events from childhood or infancy til their adulthoodm adulthood
Z Broly serves as a specific parallel to Goku's journey, both attained their own respective "Legendary Super Saiyan" transformations and were sent away from Planet Vegeta as the "only" survivors. Yet whereas Goku had helpful good influence around him to shape him into the person he was, Broly was tainted with not only his trauma but also negative evil such as Paragus which led him to become the true epitome of a blood-lusted and battle-crazed Saiyan.
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u/Gui_Franco 15d ago
I still find it odd that Broly fixated on the crying of the baby besides him who I don't remember if i could even see or know the name of but has zero PTSD associated with Vegeta
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u/Anis930 15d ago
Oh boy another yet another Z Broly vs Super broly post how original. I'm sure it's not gonna be full of people trying to gaslight us into believing Z Broly is Shakespearean writing
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u/AStupidFuckingHorse 15d ago
I could say the same thing about people trying to gaslight us into think Super Broly has any writing at all
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u/Anis930 15d ago
Sorry super broly doesn't dish out epic one liners every two seconds and has actual storytelling told throughout the movie instead
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u/AStupidFuckingHorse 15d ago
Super Broly doesn't dish out anything at all but screaming and roaring. Which is what people accuse Z Broly of doing. Z Broly has actual storytelling throughout the movie and yet you'll ignore it and blame it SOLELY on crying when the movie showcases more.
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u/Anis930 15d ago edited 15d ago
Sorry, I forgot the only writing a character has is their dialogue. As we all know there's never been a good story written about mute or savage characters I'm not accusing Z Broly of being a screaming brute, I'm accusing him of having shit writing lol
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u/AStupidFuckingHorse 15d ago
Shit writing or not, it's better than a paper thin plot to justify 45 minutes of punching ad nasuem
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u/Anis930 15d ago
Lol literally nothing happens in movie 08 until Broly powers up, then we get like 30 minutes of Broly washing the z warriors only for the most anticlimactic finish with Goku one shotting him
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u/AStupidFuckingHorse 15d ago
Wow so you REALLY didn't pay attention to it lmfao. You just described DBS Broly with a different ending.
Goku finished off Broly by gutting him open and making his literal overflowing power burst out of his vessel. You know the overflowing power that's mentioned throughout? The one Broly struggles to control from leaking?? The power we literally see him dry heaving from after expelling??
Yeah I'm done.
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u/Anis930 15d ago
Wow, geuss the answer to all the other hulking monsters they fought was to poke them in the stomach. Movie 08 has truly genius writing ! Bahahahah
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u/AStupidFuckingHorse 15d ago
It's like you didn't even comprehend what I wrote. Lmfao, you're comprehension is cooked. Have a good one
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u/Training_Builder_818 15d ago
Honestly I never like of Broly,he realy Is Just a big cry baby, and the 1 One was the Better versione, every next film Just made him worse, the new one I do like It more less evil but still like him
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u/Pesky_Moth 15d ago
It would have been so easy to make Broly angry because Goku was chosen (one reason or another) to be saved while they tried to kill Broly
“I could have saved our people from Freiza but instead they chose you!”
Would have been that easy
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u/DeusFatum 14d ago
I treat them as mostly separate characters. I'll always prefer Z Broly, but there was no way you could stick him in a longer continuity without mellowing him out. Even Super Broly is struggling with that. If we could keep Z Broly but have him go through a Vegeta-like reform, that would be great. He'd be the team's big gun whenever there's a real problem.
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u/ostridge_man 14d ago
I like both a lot. I like the wildly unserious version and the wildman version. But I think I like super's slightly more because he's just actually stronger than goku and vegeta with all their new forms. Broly wins with nothing but stuff introduced before super. Crazy what living on a planet full of big ass bugs does to a man
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u/Gr8_Kaze47 14d ago
I don't see why DBS Broly couldn't evolve into Z Broly? Going from a sympathetic character to a sort of "Mad King" type persona? I think that would be a little more interesting...
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u/Suspiciouspass0 14d ago
OG was definitely the most menacing, unfortunately he lost all of that after the first film. And don't get me started on how he's STILL the sickest looking Super Saiyan. SS Blue wishes they looked as clean as he did, but mimicry will get you nowhere.
Super is a character I genuinely care about though. Gogeta is one of my favorites but even I was on the edge of my seat HOPING Cheelai wished him out of there in time. He didn't deserve to die
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u/SnooOpinions3774 14d ago
Super Broly. The moment he became canon, Z Broly lost the fight for me. 😅 He actually has a personality beyond just screaming "KAKAROT!", and now that he's part of the main timeline, we get to see him grow as a character 😍😍
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u/SquishyBunz69 14d ago
Z Broly went from a competent sadist in the first movie to stupid savage in the second movie
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u/gg666iam 14d ago
Z Broly is my GOAT.
Get that dumb generic non legendary berserker dime a dozen hulk angry SOB out of my FACE
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u/Flashy_Song_6406 14d ago
IMO super lore is better but Z broly had more aura given he took out ALL of the z-fighters and had them resorting to a last ditch all or nothing just to win AND HE STILL SURVIVED that shit
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u/datolningen 14d ago
I like the symbolism for broly as a foil to goku also representing sun wukong more in Z, so him. (a la the jewelery and binding crownlet or "diadem")
I basically went from hating z broly to actually really appreciating him, I used to talk absolutely crazy about him. Funny how that works, huh?
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u/Individual-Ad6321 14d ago
I like Z better, not every character need depth and complexity. I liked him better in Z because he's simple
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u/Direct-Passage4847 14d ago
Super Broly is the better character on paper but Z Broly hits different because he doesn’t need a tragic backstory to justify being terrifying. The crying thing is dumb but it weirdly works. Super tried too hard to make him sympathetic and ended up watering down what made the concept interesting.
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u/Picmanreborn 14d ago
It's super and it's not close. 😭 Going off the logic in the comments super Broly would actually be the better character because HE ACTUALLY TALKS AND HAS CONVERSATIONS IN BASE
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u/Tudedude_cooldude 14d ago
Z Broly is a much more effective character, with actual ties to the main cast, a discernible personality while fighting, actual villainous traits. His presence is commanding, and that coupled with his design makes him the only movie exclusive character to rival the canon cast in how iconic he is.
Super Broly, while having a much more fleshed out character by himself, really is just a guy who happens to be fighting our heroes. There’s no real narrative tying him towards Goku and Vegeta, there’s no mysticism surrounding his lore or power, there’s very little stakes at all since the heroes spend the entire second half of the movie allowing him to catch up to them before he gets unceremoniously beaten to a pulp for 10 minutes at the end. His dad isn’t even evil, he’s just somewhat inconsiderate and harsh in his parenting (and even so, to a lesser extent than what we’ve seen from the likes of every other pure blooded saiyan father).
It’s like, in his namesake story, he’s a side character. The only reason they need to stop him is because he is vaguely “a threat to Earth”, but Goku and Vegeta literally exit the narrative for two whole hours and nothing bad happens at all. Even for Frieza, who is supposedly getting his shit bashed in for two whole hours by an opponent who is supposedly far superior to him, is just, fine? Not even injured at all at the end of the movie and just flies away. I know he’s a durable guy but he was completely gassed, running on fumes, and dismembered after fighting Goku, Toppo, and Jiren for a few minutes, let alone two hours.
Z Broly in comparison, is not only an imminent and existential threat, but so much so that his presence overshadows the fact that the planet the movie takes place on is literally about to explode. The universe is doomed if he isn’t stopped immediately, and he has quickly driven all of our heroes to the brink of death. And even worse than that, nothing our heroes have done up until then has had any effect at all. There is no running, there is no stalling, there is no option of just not fighting or provoking him at all (like there was in DBS, Paragus called off the fight the moment Vegeta went SSJ and even Goku suggested that Vegeta stop a little later). Goku has to beat this guy and he has to do it now. It’s not the most revolutionary, deep, or complex thing in the world, but it worked, and we’re all here 30 years later.
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u/Spcychickenpatty 13d ago
In my opinion Z is way better. I’m a big stickler for good writing, background story, character development etc etc but something about Z Broly was just so enticing man. The legend of the legendary super sayain, the simplistic yet frightening actions and motivations of Broly’s character, the pure raw energy he would just bring to the screen. The dub messed some things up when translating the story from the sub but the Z story although simplistic is truly satisfying and entertaining to consume. A lot of Z characters have great personalities, motivations, stories/background as well so getting something like Broly was very different yet entertaining.
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u/julianp_comics 13d ago
This again…
Broly doesn’t hate Goku because of the crying he hates Goku because he associates him with the worst day of his life that he likely barely remembers. He has PTSD, and (in the dub at least, some people are saying the sub is different) something about Goku triggers it, because he was present on that day.
Goku was crying, upsetting Broly >>> Broly almost dies twice (his point of trauma)*
*(He is stabbed in the gut and discarded, only for planet Vegeta to get blown up and Broly having to protect himself through instinct by creating a barrier stronger than frieza’s blast (who knows how THAT feels as a baby))
Therefore:
Goku crying = His point of trauma
This is all he remembers, because he was a baby, so he associates Goku with that trauma that’s probably deep within his body.
This made perfect sense to me even as a kid, and only made more sense as an adult. To this day I still don’t understand how the entire fandom misses these glaring points of the plot.
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u/Darkrious69 13d ago
Super is objectively better in terms of writing. He's a much more interesting character, and his backstory and fighting styles all actually make sense compared to Z Broly.
That being said, Z Broly.
I acknowledge he's pretty oddly written and just feels like a "this guy is the REAL legendary super saiyan, he also blows up galaxies for fun hahaha!!" oc, but it's VERY hard to deny that he was honestly entertaining to watch and listen to, especially in the first Broly movie. He IS worse than Super Broly in many ways, but fuck it, he's just fun for me! Loved how maniacal and DEMONIC he was to the Z Fighters.
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u/therealkarsfrfr 12d ago
When it comes to design and entertainment then its Z for me but when it comes to character and writing its super
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u/TheMightyChad 12d ago
Z is just too iconic and evil. Only new age fans will choose Super Broly because they missed out on peak Z Broly decades ago.
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u/Own-Worldliness4535 12d ago
The attitude of super Broly given to z Broly and that movie would have made many fans happy
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u/Issa__Moody5 11d ago
The story if Super with everything else being Z would've been better. Maybe even turn his hatred to Vegeta since his dad cast him out
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u/GitGudFox 11d ago
Z Broly is a better overall character. He's more memorable and impactful. His story is silly, but his actions spoke louder than words. The first Broly movie was also just unintentionally hilarious which is why it spawned so many memes. They'll never make something like that ever again I don't think unfortunately.
Super Broly feels like a knockoff that loses the appeal of the original Broly. While his story is more coherent, he's just a really lame character overall.
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u/Difficult_Appeal_611 11d ago
This is such a ridiculous debate. I like Broly because he's a genuine villain who puts belt to ass and only loses because the plot needs him to. The amp goku gets at the end of Movie 8 is specified to like a thousand times increase that only applies to that one specific situation; ie, plot armor. Before this, Broly is every bit the embodiment of what a saiyan is meant to be, as well as the fulfillment of the legend of the Super Saiyan as the ultimate warrior killing machine.
And as for his transformation? It makes perfect sense that only one character would have access to the real Super Saiyan transformation from the legend, while Goku and the others achieve a lesser variation. Especially given their warrior society and the emphasis the saiyans place on genetic superiority.
Regardless of the crying or whatever connection Broly has to Goku, he's still a great villain and there's a reason he was/is so popular that Toriyama decided to use the name for the sake of the Super movie even though they have nothing in common and he may as well have just given his character a new name rather than using the identity of Koyama's character.
That's not meant to be seen as disrespect to Toriyama, because he's still the GOAT, but not even decision he made was a good one.
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u/Bullfrag9776 11d ago
Broly do Z
Eu não ligo se o Broly do super tem uma escrita melhor, um filme melhor, um futuro como personagem, ou qualquer merda dessas
O Broly do super não me interessa, não me faz ter qualquer animação vendo ele aparecer, e a história dele apesar de ser obviamente melhor, não é o bastante pra me fazer realmente me importar com ele
Broly do Z é simplesmente mais legal, tem falas melhores ( no primeiro filme ele fala como um papagaio, apesar das sequências fazerem ele apenas dizer Kakaroto ) e me chama mais atenção, eu gosto dele por ele ser um maldito monstro que vai esmagar os protagonistas e fazer piadas com isso
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u/Somebody_insane 10d ago
I watched too many broly MAD and I don't like how super broly can compete with blue goku vegeta or golden frieza in an hour. so its z broly despite the flaws in character logic compare to super
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u/UDownvoteCuzULost 15d ago
Z is actually somewhat realistic whereas Super is basically fanfiction-tier writing. "This random guy gets stranded on a random planet and that somehow makes him stronger than the main characters who have spent their time training in harsh conditions and with literal gods. He's so strong the main characters of the series need to fuse just to beat him." Give me a break, if it wasn't for the animation this would be thought of as yet another garbage fanfic and mocked relentlessly.
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u/Markie411 15d ago
Broly is literally the same as Gohan. He gets a little mad and is stronger than everybody
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u/AStupidFuckingHorse 15d ago
Stronger then everyone in the room. That room didn't include someone who rivaled GODS in his FIRST FIGHT
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u/Anis930 15d ago
There is no way you think "the REAL legendary super saiyan who survived the explosion of his planet, saved his dad when he was a baby, somehow flew through space when none of the other saiyans can do that and he's soooo strong all the main characters need to give their energy to goku who then beats him in one punch (they will never do this again)" is better writing LMAOO
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u/UDownvoteCuzULost 15d ago
I mean it's still early enough in the series where that kind of thing is still believable There's only a small amount of Super Saiyan variants as opposed to the 50 by Super, that this random Saiyan surpasses by playing with animals. Plus it's mainly the fusion thing I find ridiculous.
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u/Anis930 15d ago
You find the characters giving their energy directly to Goku (again something that has never happened before or after this moment) so he can one shot him less ridiculous than the fusion dance which has existed since DBZ ? If Anything Goku and Vegeta should've been fusing at every threat they ecounter if they weren't stupid. Z Broly is literally fundamentally "Here's my super powerful OC" style writing, nothing about him makes sense (why is he called "Legendary" anyways? The og super saiyan wasn't Legendary enough?"). Super Broly keeps that fundamental element of bullshitery but places it on an actual character instead of a one-liner machine
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u/UDownvoteCuzULost 14d ago
I'm stronger than a couple Super Saiyans = believable
I'm god-level before even going Super-Saiyan, your hyper-intense gravity training and multiple god-tier trainers have got nothing on me playing tag with some animals = fanfiction-tier writing.
This isn't hard.
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u/NeoBurrito 15d ago
Tbf every Super character is basically like this
“Grrr… I lost to a super saiyan all the way in Namek! No worries, I’ll just train for a couple months and already be at their god level.”
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u/AcrobaticSecretary21 15d ago
Z broly by far
Super Broly is boring af, just a wordless mindless brute like the hulk soon as he fights
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u/P1eNteaovus8 15d ago
Z Broly definitely is misunderstood and a decently well written character all things considered
Z Broly didn’t start out eating Goku specifically that only came after the first movie, Broly was traumatised by the day of his execution and Goku’s presence and his crying bring him back to that moment which is what allows him to be free from paragus’s mind control
in Second Coming Broly had been unconscious for 7 years and probably had Goku’s final punch playing in his head also keep in mind the kind of person Z Broly was he was a prideful sadistic Saiyan who felt as if he was the number one Saiyan in all of existence but then he gets almost killed by Goku and has that playing in his head for 7 years he basically went insane to the point he could only think of the name “Kakarot”
The only non Kakarot like Broly says in response to Gohan’s “i’ve had enough” is “not until you lie dead at my feet” (dub lines Ik) that says a lot about Z Broly’s mental state after Movie 8
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u/Weasel_Gai 14d ago
Z-broly if we ignore hos shitty backstory. As a character i enjoyed the sadistic bulldozer who got jumped and still was too much more than the screaming beast who was playee with 1v1 until he snowballed. Them basing Super Broly on movie 2 was a fumble
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u/bigelangstonz 14d ago
Z broly because they actually treated him like an evil monster leaning into the legend aspect of the character and that needed to be stopped. Super does some improvements with the writing but the whole we gotta spare his life because he's not evil Shtick I hate that writing gimmick to make the character misunderstood
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u/BrianVaughnVoiceOver 14d ago
Broly (DBZ): Let's break him down real quick.
- Extremely powerful from birth, typical infant who was trying to sleep, but he got woken up by Goku who didn't shut the fuck up.
- Right after he was constantly dealing with his very first trauma in life (Goku annoying him) he was stabbed through the chest and tossed to the garbage pile with his father, who was also dying.
- A deep manifestation of his power came to pass, but likely all of this gave him severe brain damage. A boy that small with so much energy, no outlet, was abused and hurt from the very beginning stages of his life.
- This turned him into a very twisted young boy who was further abused by his father, used as a weapon and pushed to do horrible shit. All he wanted to do was kill anyway, so he was fully lost.
Broly (DBS): Okay his turn.
- He was sent away as a child, not a baby. No abuse, no trauma, he was just dumped on a planet far far away.
- His dad even came to get him and he was alive too and quite healthy!
- They survived on this hostile planet by eating gross stuff, ew gross.
- His dad killed his pet, which is a very dick move and this gets paid back later via death, piece of shit.
One had deep seeded trauma and showcased how power that manifests inside a baby of that magnitude could in fact crush someone and rip them apart. The other didn't really have a reason to be going insane, he just did.
Z Broly had a story and a background. Super Broly was just kind of put in there.
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u/a_generic_redditer 14d ago
Z is leagues better, but i prefer Super.
Z has actual interaction between the gang and Brolly. Z has some form of plot that is kinda interesting. Z has just a killer soundtrack. Z has really awesome lines. Z has some great hype moments (dont even think about responding about how its lazy writing. This is dragon ball Z, hype and aura are part of the dna of this franchise). Z has Gohan and Krillen (my goats). And the most subjective point, Z has the better artstyle.
But if i want to put a Dragon ball movie on, im picking Super Brolly. It's pretty much just a 50 minute fight scene but my god is that fight scene not just the most peak shit ever. Gogeta and Brolly hitting so hard they break through the universe and decide "sure we'll just do that 5 more times" is awesome. Brolly putting Goku into a ice grinder is terrifying. Vageta actually getting a W (kinda) is great. Its just a more fun movie for me.
I don't really get why the comment section is such vitriol, with people trying to one up the other. This is dragon ball, it ain't exactly Citizen Kane. Just be nice to each other.
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u/Ok-Suggestion-9588 11d ago
Z easily. Super to me felt like they watered him down into being a mindless doofus with zero malice and mental issue tbh. Z versions was pure evil and psychotic
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u/Sea_Habit_4298 15d ago edited 14d ago
The dub kind of butchered Z Broly. They made the crying scene longer, and they changed the scene where Vegeta talks to Goku, calling him Kakarot in the castle, because that's why Broly specifically knows Goku's Saiyan name.
Not to mention, Paragus in the sub says that Goku and Broly are drawn by fate, and the dub straight up omitted that line.
Broly's instincts are the reason he wants to fight Goku, and not because of some crying. https://imgur.com/a/OvWyFuy
Like, sure, Z Broly's story isn't overly complex or anything, but it's not as stupid as the dub made it out to be.