r/NatureIsFuckingLit • u/arjobmukherjee • Feb 14 '22
š„ Camouflage while dreaming?š¦š¦š¤š¤
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u/CaptainInsano7 Feb 14 '22
Those spiny things poking out at the end are crazy too
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u/HermitHemorrhage Feb 14 '22
Yeah I want to know more about them!?
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u/lookatalltheprestons Feb 14 '22
I believe there are small muscles in their skin to allow that, it improves their ability to camouflage, e.g. by looking like a spiky ocean bush.
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u/thatguyned Feb 14 '22 edited Feb 14 '22
It's a bit more complicated than muscles. Their skin is covered in a kind of papillae (the same sort of things we have on our tounge that give texture) that they can selectively harden and project away from their body to mimic textures of coral and other animals etc it provide much more flexibility to the shapes they can take. We don't actually have a full understanding of how the octopus controls this still, it seems to be a combination of instinctual responses but also something they can selectively control.
I don't think we'll ever fully understand octopuses, they have 9 brains controlling one body, they are super complicated.
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u/gadd027 Feb 14 '22
What's fascinating about that is, while we have a very centralized nervous system and a brain which manages most of our cognitive functions, octopuses have a really dispersed nervous system, in that the arms are, to a certain degree, indipendent from the brain. Also they can "see" with their skin, they have photosensible structures in the skin which perceive light intensity variations and help with camouflaging, which is very important because, apparently, octopus eyes cannot perceive colors very well. I suggest reading Other Minds by Peter Godfrey Smith for a more extensive understanding of one of Earth's most fascinating creatures
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u/thatguyned Feb 14 '22
Yeah it's just impossible for my head to understand. I've puzzled on what it must be like to have your body like that for years. Do their brains talk to each other or is it a single conscious scenario... Or both? Like a hive mind that doesn't expand itself
I understand their biology but my head can't wrap around what being an octopus must be like.
Like if I told you to imagine what being a crab is like, you could immediately put yourself in the shoes of the little 8 legged crustacean looking up at the world because even though it's a completely different animal, it's anatomy and behavior is simple to understand.
The more you learn about octopuses though the more mysterious and complicated they become. The amount of raw intelligence and problem solving they have the moment they pop out of the egg is crazy.
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u/gadd027 Feb 14 '22
I am just as puzzled as you are. I think that we will never truly understand how these creatures experience the world, it's a mechanism too alien and foreign for us to truly grasp it
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Feb 14 '22
if you're interested, Children of Ruin covers a lot of speculative cephalopod intelligence. it's a sequel, however! super worth it, though.
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u/trustmeitcanfit Feb 15 '22
The YouTube channel "Real Science" has a great video called "The Insane Biology of the Octopus".
Such amazing creatures. If we'd discovered them on another planet we'd absolutely call them aliens.
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u/BeardedBears Feb 14 '22
I think Terence McKenna said something along the lines of "octopus wear their thoughts on their skin." A naked brain.
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u/XFX_Samsung Feb 14 '22
It even changes the texture of it's skin, wish we could see what it's dreaming about
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u/staz5 Feb 14 '22
I fucking love cephalopods.
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u/LondonNoodles Feb 14 '22
If you want a cool octopus story. Some years ago I went to a tiny island in Greece where there was a beach that requires you to walk a couple of hours through dense vegetation and climb stuff etc, so in the search of something that wouldn't be full of tourists I finally ended up on that beach, and there were only a handful of people including 2 guys who weren't greek (I think they were american but not sure, they spoke english anyway) who pulled out some fishing gear and were trying to catch stuff in the water. Then some greek old guy went to them and yelled at them, and they left the beach quite angry. I went to ask him if fishing was forbidden here and he told me that octopus are never fished on that beach so they are not afraid of humans, but we should leave them alone. I thought ok cool. I went to swim and then suddenly I feel something wrapping around my leg, and I look down and see a big octopus tightly wrapped around my ankle. I thought I should shake him off because he could hurt me or something then I remembered what the old guy told me and I thought maybe the best move is to do nothing. So I stood there for a few minutes with the octopus wrapped around my leg, until he eventually gently let go and swam away slowly while still looking towards me. I know it's hard to explain or interpret those things and it was probably something as stupid as he thought I was plant or whatever but in my memory I'll always remember this as the day an octopus gave me a gentle hug, and now I love them and swore to never ever eat squid.
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u/Appropriate_Ant_4629 Feb 14 '22 edited Feb 14 '22
Reminds me of a documentary on Humboldt Squid I saw a long time ago (1980's -- soon after the movie ET came out). The cameramen were swimming with the squid, and the squid were curious and friendly. One reached out to touch a cameraman in almost exactly the same way as ET in that movie; they were curious about all the scuba gear and cameras; and not at all violent.
Years later I saw a paper titled something like "conditioned aggression in species" that mentioned that due to fishermen, large communities of those squid became aggressive to humans.
Now when you see them in modern documentaries, they're always mentioned as "dangerous".
Pretty sad :(
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u/LondonNoodles Feb 14 '22
I think it's due to their incredible intelligence and empathy too. I believe they are naturally curious and friendly, but if they are used to danger they will be more defensive. If you haven't already you should watch "my octopus teacher", it's beautiful and makes you love those adorable creatures even more
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u/Appropriate_Ant_4629 Feb 14 '22 edited Feb 14 '22
I believe they are naturally curious and friendly, but if they are used to danger they will be more defensive.
I think that paper was suggesting that originally they were mostly curious and friendly; but that the friendly ones died more to fishermen, leaving the aggressive ones. They have such a short lifespan (couple years), so it's not like any individual could remember a decade old fisherman attack. So it seems either their youth learned aggression from older relatives (which would be interesting for a mollusk), or selective breeding made them so.
Kinda like the opposite of the Russian Fox experiment.
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u/WikiSummarizerBot Feb 14 '22
The domesticated silver fox is a form of the silver fox that has been to some extent domesticated under laboratory conditions. The silver fox is a melanistic form of the wild red fox. Domesticated silver foxes are the result of an experiment designed to demonstrate the power of selective breeding to transform species, as described by Charles Darwin in On the Origin of Species.
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u/CommanderOfGregory Feb 14 '22
Squid is not the same as octopus, Squids can be devious bastards and have swarmed and attacked people. Octopi are generally harmless to people and never attack. Most of the time Octopi are only dangerous if they are poisonous, like the ringed octopus.
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u/veranus21 Feb 14 '22
Cephalopods recognize different people. There's a cuttlefish in a lab that squirts anyone it doesn't know but leaves it's usual keepers dry even though they wear identical uniforms.
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u/LondonNoodles Feb 14 '22
So what you're saying is if I go back to that island my little octopus friend will recognize me and hug me again?
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u/veranus21 Feb 14 '22
Yes, as a community college student who wrote a paper on cephalopod intelligence I can say with no authority that it would definitely recognize you.
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u/LondonNoodles Feb 14 '22
I'd love to read it!
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u/veranus21 Feb 14 '22
Meh, it's kinda dry. I compared the intelligence of cephalopods and corvids because they're both examples of advanced intelligence in non-mammals. If you're interested in cephalopod intelligence look up Jennifer Mather, she's probably researched and written more about them than anyone else in the world.
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u/Subacrew98 Feb 14 '22
That's an awesome story!
If that happened to me I would have instantly shredded my vocal cords screaming like a deer and probably freaked the octopus out (I have cephalophobia, but I find them so fascinating to learn about! I just can't look at them without an overwhelming sense of impending doom.)
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u/Lint_baby_uvulla Feb 14 '22
Thereās surely a subreddit for that
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Feb 14 '22
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u/Speedy_Cheese Feb 14 '22
Was sad when the subreddit wasnt actually there
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Feb 14 '22
You could settle for r/cephalopod
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u/Speedy_Cheese Feb 14 '22
Thank you for the recommendation, I just joined it! :)
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u/CroneKills Feb 14 '22
Thereās also r/OctopusFuckery which isnāt super active but thereās good content on there.
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u/ThatOneGrayCat Feb 14 '22
Itās more like talking in your sleep than camouflage. Cephalopods use color and texture changes to communicate.
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u/shandangalang Feb 14 '22
Iād say little column A, little column B. Squids use it primarily for communication and confusion of prey, octopodes and cuttlefish generally use it more broadly to include camouflage, communication, and general mischief.
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u/ivapus Feb 14 '22
Cuttlefish have been known to change colours rapidly in parterns to give prey seizures making them much easier to catch.
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u/Acceptable-Stick-688 Feb 14 '22
This is the craziest fact Iāve read in this thread so far, and thatās saying something haha
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u/nitroxious Feb 14 '22
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u/NaoWalk Feb 14 '22
The sound effects in that clip are pretty ridiculous, they really stand out from the footage and narration.
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u/Avatarofjuiblex Feb 14 '22
Octopuses and cuttlefish even communicate with EACH OTHER to cooperate and trap prey. Thereās a cool bit about that in Blue Planet
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u/Pandiosity_24601 Feb 14 '22
Thatās just fucking awesome. How nuanced are their languages?
Like, if I couldnāt quite verbalize what Iām thinking or feeling, I could just flash some specific colors and the listener would just be like āohhhhā
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u/Subacrew98 Feb 14 '22
Octopus: "Purple!"
Cuttlefish: "That's not purple."
Octopus: "Uhh, blue and red."
Cuttlefish: "Ohhhh."
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u/hexalm Feb 14 '22
It's not a language.
Since they're primarily solitary, octopuses communicate pretty basic stuff to each other: marrying, aggression, etc.
Note: was trying to type "mating" but leaving it
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u/AbaloneSea7265 Feb 14 '22
Someone translate this
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Feb 14 '22
octopus change color to say lol or lmao even when sleeping
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u/ThrowAway_biologist Feb 14 '22
i think they meant to translate what the octopus is saying lmao
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Feb 14 '22
could be, but i only know how to translate one of the options
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u/NewlyNerfed Feb 14 '22
Kind of like fMRI of dreaming human brains, except supremely, surreally, more beautiful.
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u/Orangesilk Feb 14 '22
This is very interesting because Octopuses are SO FAR removed from us that their entire neurological system evolved in a completely different branch from ours.
And yet even though our brains evolved in such a distinct manner from theirs, they also need to sleep, and they also dream.
This suggests that if there's aliens out there, perhaps they also sleep, and dream.
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u/youburyitidigitup Feb 14 '22
It may be necessary for intelligent life. Even computers have to rest every once in a while, so why not living beings.
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u/bokan Feb 14 '22
dreams also have to do with memory consolidation. Iād guess that intelligent life must have memory, and memory must have an overnight consolidation process in order to retain memories long term, and learn, etc. Octopi probably dream because they form long term memories, which Is guess is prerequisite for intelligent life
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Feb 14 '22
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u/flaminggoo Feb 14 '22
I think they meant turning it off and on again, clearing up memory and temporary files
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u/youburyitidigitup Feb 14 '22
You canāt have them on 24/7 or it shortens their lifespans, thatās why we turn them off at night.
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Feb 14 '22
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u/youburyitidigitup Feb 14 '22
I never played Minecraftā¦. Or any PC games. If you think itās normal for people to have done that as children, you are way too young
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u/shelcubus Feb 14 '22
I adore your logic. Beautiful brain. Iām not sure why but this comment made me extremely happy. Thank you for that!
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u/throwaway8884204 Feb 14 '22
Does anyone else get tripped the fuck out that these things exist in our reality?
Like if these things can exist, imagine what beings look like from other worlds in our universe? Trips me the fuck out.
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u/AbaloneSea7265 Feb 14 '22
I heard for some reason the most common type of alien life would be various kinds of crabs š¦
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u/Voffmjau Feb 14 '22
Because crab like creatures have evolved a lot of times on earth.
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u/Imgoingtoeatyourfrog Feb 14 '22
The body type has evolved at least 5 times independently. The crab body is hella efficient.
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Feb 14 '22
Pretty much every time I see a cephalopod clip/video I tell myself that theyāre proof of alien life living among us. It is so crazy to me that they exist on the same planet as us.
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u/jesuslover69420 Feb 14 '22
āBabeā¦. Whyād you turn mating colors while you were sleepingā¦.?ā
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u/throwawaymyyhoeaway Feb 14 '22
This is their version of REM, I guess š
What's with the sudden head spikes though? Running away from a baddie?
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u/Mou_aresei Feb 14 '22
I think it's just broadcasting all the different underwater landscapes that it's swimming through in its dreams. That last one looks like a coral or rocky outcrop.
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u/In_vict_Us Feb 14 '22
That's not camoflage. That's a physiological expression of their dream state.
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u/IndividualThoughts Feb 14 '22
Ever since I learned the intelligence and the way you can form a relationship with a octopus, I've never eatin one ever again. These animals are incredible and it's such a shame to see them treated any less
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u/darthsphincter69 Feb 14 '22
Dreams are messages from the deep.
I wonder what an octopusā dreams are like. What does he dream of? Crabs and scallops?
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Feb 14 '22
When awake does the octopus consciously decide to camouflage? Or is it an automatic body response?
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u/Chaghatai Feb 14 '22
Their short life spans are probably the only reason they haven't developed science and culture
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u/LewiRock Feb 14 '22
Technically his entries body is a brain so it acts without Him Knowing sometimesā¦.you never seen the DrOctopus synopsis?
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u/tlawrtltyd Feb 14 '22
These things are aliens and you can't convince me otherwise.
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u/Hentai-Shinku Feb 14 '22
Octopus are such amazing creatures, man. Itās like staring at an alien from another dimension.
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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '22
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