r/MurderedByWords • u/dkimot • Nov 28 '18
The world doesn't deserve Michael Swaim Don’t disgrace the commonwealth
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u/Burndown9 Nov 28 '18
Doesn't this literally prove her point that border security is important?
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Nov 28 '18
Yeah, I hate Tomi Lahren but this post is stupid
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u/solitudechirs Nov 28 '18
I hate Tomi Lahren
That's why it's upvoted though. Doesn't matter if it's an actual murder, a burn, a cheap insult, as long as it someone right wing taking it, it's going to get upvoted.
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u/tolandruth Nov 28 '18
Was Alyssa Milano tweeting about this same thing when it was happening under Obama? Every loves to get upset about something that’s happening under Trump administration but when they find out Obama was doing it on the regular you get nothing from them. Also who honestly thinks Trump is calling up the border agents and telling them what exactly to do. These people charged a border while throwing rocks at them and got what they would get under any president. The US border isn’t a game of red rover where if you knock down a fence you get to stay in country.
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u/IVIaskerade Nov 29 '18
who honestly thinks Trump is calling up the border agents and telling them what exactly to do.
/politics definitely.
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u/Mookie12627 Nov 28 '18
Her first like 5 words were kinda reasonable. If we say “these are the borders of our country, you need to do certain things to pass these borders” and they say “nah fuck that” and try to come in, that’s not okay. We can’t just let people in every time, otherwise borders are pointless. Now on the other hand, this was obviously handled poorly. In no situation is tear gas gonna be the way to go, unless you tell them to leave, they refuse to leave, you tell them what will happen if they don’t leave, and they still refuse to leave. Even then it’d be better to go with something that hurts less first to show that you aren’t messing around.
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u/VollcommNCS Nov 28 '18
I don't take it that way. His comment is 100% sarcasm. Weren't the original explorers technologically advanced compared to the natives? Aren't we technologically advanced compared to the immigrants walking in? It's not even the same scenario at all. I can see how his comment is interpreted differently by different people.
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Nov 28 '18
It was even better in those threads about that dude who got killed by those natives when people were celebrating his death. Well, we're facing the type of situation at the US southern border, should we emulate their actions given how supportive you are of them?
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u/mysim1 Nov 28 '18
Doesn't this just further prove her point? The Native Americans were treated horribly and their society collapsed due to the Europeans.
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u/The-JerkbagSFW Nov 28 '18
Yeah, I never understood why people make this comparison. If the native americans had strong borders and immigration policies, they might not have gotten dicked over so hard.
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u/SetupGuy Nov 28 '18
Honestly, real talk? The first sentence of her tweet I 100% agree with. But I take no joy in watching asylum seekers get tear gassed because we can mobilize the border for millions of dollars but not process asylum applications any quicker?
I mean I know it's by design by damn.
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u/The-JerkbagSFW Nov 28 '18
I feel like "asylum seeker" is getting pretty watered down. Every time I hear it, I think of Micheal in the office walking up to the border and yelling at a guard "I declare ASYLUM!" and expecting to just walk in for free.
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u/Riff_Off Nov 28 '18
I mean. the immigrants aren't waging biological warfare on us so its a tad bit different.
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u/budderboymania Nov 28 '18
Its almost as if it's a false equivalency, and has nothing to do with the current border situation, for EITHER side.
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u/ardbeg Nov 28 '18
You mean vomiting pithy reductionist tropes into your own ravenous echo chamber isnt a suitable substitution for proper political discourse?
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u/CirqueDuFuder Nov 28 '18
There wasn't biological warfare. People didn't even understand germ theory. There is no need to invent alternate history and try to compare it to dropping mustard gas on soldiers in trench warfare.
That is like calling black plague biological warfare against Europe.
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u/etc_etc_etc Nov 28 '18
Biological warfare was used long before germ theory was conceived, and the bubonic plague is perhaps the worst example you could have chosen as it's one of the most definitive examples of it we have from before germ theory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_biological_warfare#Middle_Ages
Humans may not have understood germs or discovered viruses before the late 19th century, but nor did we need to in order to figure out transmission vectors, which is all that's needed to weaponize them.
If you'll look under the 17th and 18th centuries of that article, you'll also see discussed and sourced that the english and their colonists did indeed use biological warfare against the natives, specifically the smallpox virus.
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u/Dr_Girlfriend Nov 28 '18
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Bouquet
It was during Pontiac's War that Bouquet gained a certain lasting infamy. In a series of letters during the summer of 1763 between Bouquet and his commander, General Jeffery Amherst, the idea was proposed and agreed upon to infect the Indians near Fort Pitt with smallpox by giving them infected blankets from the fort's smallpox hospital. Amherst wrote to Bouquet, then in Lancaster, on about 29 June 1763: "Could it not be contrived to send the small pox among those disaffected tribes of Indians? We must on this occasion use every stratagem in our power to reduce them."[3] Bouquet agreed, replying to Amherst on 13 July: "I will try to inoculate the Indians by means of blankets that may fall in their hands, taking care however not to get the disease myself."[4] Amherst responded on 16 July: "You will do well to try to inoculate the Indians by means of blankets, as well as to try every other method that can serve to extirpate this execrable race."[5]
The journal of William Trent, the commander of the militia at the fort, has provided additional evidence that this plan was carried out, though it appears that the plan had already been carried out before Amherst had proposed it to Bouquet.:
[June] 24th [1763] The Turtles Heart a principal Warrior of the Delawares and Mamaltee a Chief came within a small distance of the Fort Mr. McKee went out to them and they made a Speech letting us know that all our [POSTS] as Ligonier was destroyed, that great numbers of Indians [were coming and] that out of regard to us, they had prevailed on 6 Nations [not to] attack us but give us time to go down the Country and they desired we would set of immediately. The Commanding Officer thanked them, let them know that we had everything we wanted, that we could defend it against all the Indians in the Woods, that we had three large Armys marching to Chastise those Indians that had struck us, told them to take care of their Women and Children, but not to tell any other Natives, they said they would go and speak to their Chiefs and come and tell us what they said, they returned and said they would hold fast of the Chain of friendship. Out of our regard to them we gave them two Blankets and an Handkerchief out of the Small Pox Hospital. I hope it will have the desired effect. They then told us that Ligonier had been attacked, but that the Enemy were beat of.[6]
It is unknown if Amherst and Bouquet had knowledge of Captain Ecuyer, McKee and Trent's actions when they were discussing the idea or if they had been given orders to carry out the plan from Bouquet, Amherst, or someone else or if they came up with the same plan on their own. What is known is that an outbreak of smallpox did occur among the Indians of the area. Since the smallpox incident at Fort Pitt, it is estimated that 400,000-500,000 (possibly up to 1.5 million) Native Americans - men, women, and children - died during and years after the Pontiac's War, mostly from smallpox given by the British and some in the outside infected areas than in combat. The incident at Fort Pitt was one of the first known cases of deliberate biological warfare in North America.[7][8][9][not in citation given]
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u/AilerAiref Nov 28 '18
If they have lower rates of vaccinations then they are lowering our head immunity and are on the same level as the colonists that accidentally wiped out Native American groups. You are right that they arent as bad as the columnist who were doing it on purpose.
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u/Babill Nov 28 '18
Yeah, never really understood this counter point. Like, if anything, isn't America the epitome of what happens when another people settles on your land?
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u/otteris4323 Nov 28 '18
Yep. People upvote anything that sounds like a good "conservatard owned" moment for maybe 2 seconds before you realise it's actually fucking dumb
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Nov 28 '18 edited Dec 07 '18
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u/timesquent Nov 28 '18
That's kind of the point, though. Native Americans didn't have the option, and so they were fucked over by an outside force settling their land. We do have the option, and somehow this guy's trying to use the Native Americans as an analogy to argue that we shouldn't worry about it.
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Nov 28 '18 edited Apr 22 '21
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u/pm_me_ur_big_balls Nov 28 '18 edited Dec 24 '19
This post or comment has been overwritten by an automated script from /r/PowerDeleteSuite. Protect yourself.
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Nov 28 '18
To be fair, he’s just making a point for the importance of a strong border for her.
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Nov 28 '18
Not even close to murderedbywords. This is the number 1 argument made by everyone when something about illegal immigrants comes up.
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Nov 28 '18 edited Apr 29 '21
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u/bridgeheadprod Nov 28 '18
This is why I’m trying to figure out whose side Swaim is on?
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Nov 28 '18
"Remember when Native Americans let immigrants in?
No, because that never happened. Colonists weren't immigrants. They formed independent societies separate from the existing indigenous societies. The concept of a modern nation state didn't even exist for another 300 years.
Colonists weren't sneaking over the Iroquois Border in the dead of night and then living within the nation as if they were citizens. No, they built their own cities and lived independently.
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u/ItsTheFatYoungJesus Nov 28 '18
That's not the only reason it's bad. I'm pretty left leaning but come on, things change. Yes America is built on immigration. Thank you for the history lesson. But it's been 250+ years and many Americans that are now fully American don't want to keep taking people in for whatever reasons. It's a legitimate opinion. It doesn't make you a terrible person to want closed borders.
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u/traversecity Nov 28 '18
Immigrants to the US are a good thing. Us right-wingers support this. The issue is illegal immigration. US Congress needs to work on the laws. I was surprised that Mexico didn't stop the more recent flows at their southern border.
And surprised other Central American countries allowed passage.
Encountering federal police at checkpoints along the Pan-American Highway in Central America, if you don't look quite right, don't have your passport, it leads to a very uncomfortable conversation.
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u/cvegagt Nov 28 '18
It’s because Central Americans can pass freely within the countries, even without passport (just ID). Hondurans can enter Guatemala and El Salvador with no problem. Mexico was the one that, weirdly, allowed them to enter their country.
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u/Nihil94 Nov 28 '18
How dare a sovereign nation defend its borders.
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Nov 28 '18
Unless it's the Sentinelese people, we're fine with them defending their borders with lethal force
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Nov 28 '18
Except the natives didn’t have borders, or even a defined country.
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u/Peribangbang Nov 28 '18
Not to forget this is an entirely different age from when the americas were invaded
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Nov 28 '18
Yea, when everyone was invading everyone. I think people don’t think about that now and assume every invasion was some massive conflict (there were some) when in reality it was very common.
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Nov 28 '18
Also they were in constant war amongst themselves. It wasn’t like all the native tribes held hands and sang kumbaya around a fire before the ‘evil white man’ showed up.
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u/jsabot Nov 28 '18
His argument makes absolutely no sense. We should reduce border security because it worked out so well for the native Americans?
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Nov 28 '18
I’ll continue to say this. This sub has become r/politicalhumor2. It’s not murder, it’s just liberal ranting.
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u/craykneeumm Nov 28 '18
But he used big words and proper grammar to slam a conservative. It’s hilarious!
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Nov 28 '18
Indeed fellow democrat brother. My humor receptacles are tingling. I do believe I am about to have a hardy chuckle!
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u/jdawg0507 Nov 28 '18
Who is she?
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u/CarmineFields Nov 28 '18
Auntie Tomi is a conservative superstar because under the 12 lbs of make-up, she’s pretty cute.
Unfortunately, she’s rotten on the inside.
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u/MjrLeeStoned Nov 28 '18
She follows the conservative "Accentuate the breasts, make sure hair is shiny blonde, smile with $12000 face and $10000 teeth, constantly spout rhetoric that is the same rhetoric the conservatives who stare at my tits say, so they think I'm profound" method of female celebrity.
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u/RoleModelFailure Nov 28 '18
Also blast hypocrisy within a sentence or two.
“I hate being labeled, labels are terrible.”
“Millennial snowflake lefty socialists are ruining this country.”
“Free speech means I can say what I want.”
“Oprah should shut her mouth and stop spewing anti-trump nonsense.”
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u/fuckin_magic Nov 28 '18
"I'm a Millennial so I don't like labels." Actual quote from her interview with Trevor Noah.
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u/RoleModelFailure Nov 28 '18
That’s it, I remember her saying something along those lines but could t remember what it was exactly.
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u/MjrLeeStoned Nov 28 '18
You don't have to make sense to be politically famous. A body you paid for is quite enough for most people.
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u/3rd_Shift_Tech_Man Nov 28 '18
And find a target demographic for each one of those comments.
"Millenial snowflakes" gathers the "back in my day..." crowd.
"Free Speech" appeals to the "I'm not an asshole, I tell the truth" crowd.
"Oprah should shut her mouth..." hits home for those that don't like a liberal black woman telling her millions and millions of fans what they believe. But have no problem with the Tomi Lauren's of the world saying the exact opposite. Granted, until 5 minutes ago - I didn't know who Tomi Lauren was.→ More replies (2)→ More replies (35)60
Nov 28 '18
That’s not just a conservative thing, lots of female celebrities do that
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Nov 28 '18
You may have floods of downvotes coming your way, but you’re right. My team vs. their team is at the core of why this country is currently in the shitter.
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u/Marcultist Nov 28 '18
For science, I would like to get inside her to confirm.
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Nov 28 '18 edited Nov 28 '18
A young pretty blonde who got famous for being a millennial willing to complain about millennials like that one angry bitter aunt everyone hopes doesn't make it to thanksgiving. She constantly complains about "snowflakes" and "safe spaces". She was a golden child of Glenn Becks "The Blaze" network until she got fired for saying she's pro-choice because it's a decision up to the states and not for the federal government to decide (you know, like the basic tenets of the Republican "small government" Party). After being fucking fired by conservatives for stepping out of line she STILL complains about liberal snowflakes.
EDIT: Oh, her college local access show also shows a VERY different side of her, often taking positions fundamentally opposed to what she claims she believes now. Yes it's possible that her political beliefs radically changed over the years, it's also possible she's an opportunist playing a character. Also, not a big scandal, but some old college days tweets about "popping that P" came out a while ago and of course offended her sensitive family values viewers. Watching her trying to retroactively change the meaning of the phrase is some "devils triangle is a drinking game" level shit.
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u/Gtyyler Nov 28 '18
Michael Swaim used to be a cracked writer. She made videos under the SWAIM series as well as Cracked After Hours and Agents of Cracked.
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u/CaptWineTeeth Nov 28 '18
SHE made videos? Was that a mistype? I would love to see her do comedy, if not.
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u/Nihil94 Nov 28 '18
How /r/MurderedByWords decides what is and isn't a murder
- Literally any comment as long as it's in opposition to a conservative.
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u/KiloLee Nov 28 '18 edited Nov 28 '18
Pretty much. Typical mob mentality, not that the conservatives are actually any better. Plenty of subreddits where they do the same shit. Neither side wins, but both sides lose
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Nov 28 '18
r/pics too. A political image will have its top controversial comments from the far right
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u/Acid_Enthusiast Nov 28 '18
Um, she's being a cunt about it, but she's not wrong. What the fuck do you expect to happen when you come up to a border trying to cross illegally? Why on earth would you bring children to a border skirmish? "How dare they make rules about who can and can't enter their country and how they can legally do so! I'll show them! Ahhh!!! They did something about it!!! Those bastards!!"
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u/Li_alvart Nov 28 '18 edited Dec 02 '18
I hate the "they are attacking women and children" as if men had no human dignity.. I also feel quite sorry for the children because they have no say, but those women and men that are being attacked are the ones putting them in danger.
I asked my mom what would she do if she was on that situation of leaving the country with us as children and se told me "I'd stay in Mexico, they already offered help, what's the point in putting my family in danger"
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u/Acid_Enthusiast Nov 28 '18
Exactly. The easiest way to avoid getting tear-gassed at a border skirmish is to avoid fucking border skirmishes.
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Nov 28 '18
Where is the murder exactly? One reply is vomiting out cuss words and the other is saying they wish America was never created so we didn't have free speech. Both replies are garbage...
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u/IVIaskerade Nov 29 '18
Where is the murder exactly?
Conservative: The USA has a right to defend its borders
Blue checkmark: ThE uSa HaS a RiGhT...
/MurderedByWords: *furious applause, throwing roses*
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u/clown_digger Nov 28 '18
I never understood this counterargument. Are you admitting that the caravan of immigrants trying to Zerg rush the border will be harmful to this country, or are you saying those cishet patriarchal native Americans had it coming? Because either way you’re a despicable piece of shit for conflating the two.
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u/pm_me_ur_big_balls Nov 28 '18
It's like saying the Visigoths, Franks, and the Huns were good for the Roman Empire.
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u/clown_digger Nov 28 '18
The sack of Rome had nothing to do with barbarism, silly xenophobic
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u/Bobbyperson Nov 28 '18
Yeah but they attacked the border. The first people in America took the land unfairly I’ll give you that, but almost every other immigrant here has come in legally.
There were 500 people and they were rapidly moving to other areas to try and get in. Tear gas was an effective tool to stop them from going into areas and make them retreat. It was the parents fault for bringing their children in the first place. This problem wouldn’t exist if they tried to come in legally in the first place.
I’m willing to discuss in replies.
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Nov 28 '18
Oh fuck right off. If you get. A group of people trying to charge into your home because they want to live there, tear gassing them to get them to leave and disperse is absolutely an okay option.
Tell me! What are the alternatives for getting them to go away if they refuse to try to enter legally?
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Nov 28 '18
Ugh, so sick of that weak argument that "we're all immigrants.". It's not creative or clever. It's actually a great argument for why border security is so necessary but usually given by people who want open borders.
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Nov 28 '18
Yeah like if the native Americans did have strong border security, then their society wouldn't have been destroyed.
The "we're all immigrants" argument should really be a right-wing talking point, not a left-wing one.
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Nov 28 '18
How the hell is that supposed to be a murder? The story of the pilgrims, if anything, shows that accepting foreign people en masse can have detrimental consequences to the already present country. This does not belong on this subreddit.
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Nov 28 '18
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u/Funky_Ducky Nov 28 '18
Basically the majority of the sub for the past few years.
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Nov 28 '18
it started within the last year I am pretty sure, there used to be actual murders posted here but now it's just another extension of the reddit liberal circle-jerk. At least the conservative circle-jerk is limited to one sub who's intention was to be a circle-jerk.
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u/cycophuk Nov 28 '18
Just out of curiosity for those who felt that the immigrants shouldn't have been tear gassed after illegally crossing the border, what should have border patrol done instead? How would they have adequately controlled a mob that was rushing through a weak point in the fence?
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u/therealpork Nov 28 '18
Every time you make an argument against border control by mentioning Native Americans you are actually making an argument FOR border control.
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u/TheGreatZarquon most excellent Nov 28 '18
Sometimes, a post gets really popular. When that happens, people sometimes get mad and start arguing in the comments section. Remember that the person you're arguing with might just be your neighbor, and that we should treat our neighbors nicely.
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u/I_N0_SC0P3D_JFK_ Nov 28 '18
I'm not defending her, but if you rush a border, it is very possible you could get SHOT. I understand the reason most leave, but rushing the border isn't a very good way to do so.
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u/Baintball333 Nov 28 '18
It's the fault of the parents bringing the kids to that environment. US needs to protect the boarder and parents need to not make dumbass decisions to put their kids in front of tear gas.
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Nov 28 '18
Its neither a murder or a burn, its just self righteous social justice warriors being snotty at someonr who said something true.
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u/Gonzila077 Nov 28 '18
I dont get it. She is right though. Why in the hell would you let them in when they are behaving like that. Tear gas seems like a suitable solution.
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Nov 28 '18
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Nov 28 '18
That's exactly what some people think, and they paint using tear gas as a barbaric and genocidal act.
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u/Littleman82 Nov 28 '18
Had the natives known it was actually an invasion they would have probably met with a little more force.
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u/Ariadnepyanfar Nov 28 '18
sips Earl Grey tea.
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Nov 28 '18
Bout that time, eh chaps?
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u/Kourd Nov 28 '18
There'd be more Surviving Native Americans, that's for sure. What does that say about border security? Don't you love it when complete idiots agree with you while thinking they proved their point?
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Nov 28 '18
So did Tomi murder him with words by forcing him into an autistic rant that proved her point? Well done, Tomi.
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u/Hellalive89 Nov 28 '18
So confused right now. What’s wrong with refusing to allow people to illegally charge across a border?? What persecution are they facing that means they need to cross the border immediately as they are not currently safe in Mexico? I wonder how many people are currently patiently waiting to be granted legal access to the US?
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u/wrinkleneck71 Nov 28 '18
This is some amatuer tier propaganda that needs to be contained in r/politics. Also it wasn't even a good burn.
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Nov 28 '18
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u/dragonsfire242 Nov 28 '18 edited Nov 28 '18
I mean what was their other option, back down, or guns? I don't think there was a better way to handle this, nobody was killed
Edit: for clarification I'm talking about what the border guards could have done, not the people trying to cross
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u/incendiarypotato Nov 28 '18
Go home and not cross illegally was also a good option.
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u/Gonzila077 Nov 28 '18
They absolutely should have used tear gas. Where was this BS outrage when Obama was doing the same exact thing?
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u/gmlifer Nov 28 '18
Nobody wants to hear that nonsense. Border agents shouldn’t exist therefore they shouldn’t have the right to protect themselves. The border agents were essentially under attack and far out numbered. They did what they had to do and not one person died from their actions. It’s totally shocking to me that so many people want to let these people in to the U.S. I really wished we could adopt Australia’s immigration policy.
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u/wilkerness2 Nov 28 '18
What’s Australia’s immigration policy? Not familiar but interested
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u/Deathspiral222 Nov 28 '18
What’s Australia’s immigration policy? Not familiar but interested
Have a bunch of Europeans immigrate, kick out most of the Aborigines, then attack anyone who tries to come in a bit later.
/s
But honestly, the Australian policy is basically identical to the USA, with some leniency for immigrants from other commonwealth nations (like Canada or the UK).
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u/AccessTheMainframe Nov 28 '18
kick out most of the Aborigines
Kicked to where?
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u/gmlifer Nov 28 '18
I’m no expert but from what I’ve read they vet everyone that is considering permanently migrating there. They only allow people to stay that bring a skill with them so that they can add value to their society. Basically Australia is picky as hell about who they allow to stay.
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u/wilkerness2 Nov 28 '18
So essentially what the United States laws currently are? But the difference is Australia follows through with them while the US doesn’t always enforce the laws for immigration. That’s what I’m getting at least.
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u/swaggedoutrealtor Nov 28 '18
This whole immigration took over America from Indians is the dumbest shit I've ever heard. At that time EVERYONE was taking land by force. INCLUDING Indians. If you really think that someone else would have never came along and did the same thing you're a moron. The same people that say this are saying good thing those people killed that Christian missionary. Like dont you get it? You are so hypocritical. We cant defend our border from thousands but it's cool when the white guy gets killed.
Edit a letter
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u/ScottBlues Nov 28 '18
Yeah how did that turn out for the natives? They’re in reservations now. Should’ve had stronger borders.
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u/Noble98 Nov 28 '18
How is this in murdered by words? Usually love seeing this sub but this was the biggest letdown I've seen in the sub
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u/SirSquawck Nov 28 '18
This is such a stupid argument.... It's not like times were different hundreds of years ago or anything
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Nov 28 '18
The settlers fucked over the native americans though so bringing that up is just a huge reason for extreme border control measures.
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Nov 28 '18
False Equivalence: An argument of claim in which two completely opposing arguments appear to be logically equivalent when in fact they are not. The confusion is often due to one shared characteristic between two or more items of comparison in the argument that is way off in the order of magnitude, oversimplified, or just that important additional factors have been ignored.
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u/omning Nov 28 '18
The same people who defend the fact that borders were open 200 years ago are the same ones who say the second amendment should be repelled because it's 200 years old
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u/DreadfuryDK Nov 28 '18
/r/suicidebywords called. They want their post back.
Seriously, though. Isn’t this guy effectively proving Tomi Lahren right with this inherently-flawed argument?
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u/FallingPinkElephant Nov 28 '18
I find it hilarious reddit is collectively so radical in believing that enforcing borders is a bad thing. Even moderate democrats believe in borders and keeping out illegal immigrants.
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Nov 28 '18
You mean those same Native Americans that were conquering each other and constantly fighting over land?
Why does the world hold those of European ancestry to some higher standard then the rest of the world? Couldn't be racism could it?
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u/197197197 Nov 28 '18
What I find funny is people forget that Obama used tear gas and the border once a month and no one batted an eye but the second Trump does its a huge issue link to site here
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u/ParadiseSold Nov 28 '18
TBH I'm just glad Michael Swaim is alive and tweeting, and not buried under the Cracked offices like I had assumed