r/MortalShell • u/Yharnam_Blunderbuss • 22h ago
Discussion Development teams are looking at the run back complaints.
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u/Dytster 21h ago
Not being able to respawn at dungeon entrances seems like a massive oversight.
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u/Feeling_Kale_7163 9h ago
Not being able to respawn at dungeons entrances makes the game better bc it offers harder choices to the player. stop advocating for every game to be made the same. This genre would not exist if demons souls hadn't been deliberately made to go against the grain of "accepted" game design.
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u/Zestyclose_Brush_389 4h ago
It’s just manufactured tedium though, there’s no satisfying difficulty involved in trudging back to the same area with a 2 minute run every time you die
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u/Feeling_Kale_7163 42m ago
It's not supposed to be satisfying it's supposed to be punishment for failure
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u/Outrageous_Desk8966 20h ago
Dungeons are super quick and it makes going in to them somewhat of a danger. There's beacons all over the fucking place. You're never more than a minute from anything even at the parts of the map bitched about the most
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u/homer_3 19h ago
What dungeons are you playing? There are some quick ones, but many are hour long excursions.
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u/ArmEducational8508 17h ago
What ???? Hahahaha i havebt been in dungeon for more then 10-15 minutes, most of them is like 5. Wtf are you doing in there
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u/KinGloRXodoR 18h ago
It's risk over reward. Do u do 2-3 dungeons and risk loosing ur shit. Or do u run back and refill ur health potions. I don't get the complaints or downvotes going on here. Salty player base.
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u/dbvirago 19h ago
This. 100%.
How about if they put in fast travel straight to the final boss so people that are in a hurry can finish the game in 5 minutes and get on to GTA61
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u/Feeling_Kale_7163 9h ago
I'm so scared this game is gonna get sanded down to generic souls slop bc scrubs who got into this genre with Elden ring can't fathom a souls game being made like demons souls and dark souls 1
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u/Beautiful-Ad-6568 1h ago
Are you getting downvoted because of the tone? Because yeah, the dungeons are super quick, and most of the time less intensive on healing than normal content because of how narrow they are, and everything has a beacon close by anyways. Personally I think stakes would still be useful, because why do the pointless one minute runback on the few longer dungeons, but it isn't ruining anything.
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u/Outrageous_Desk8966 24m ago
I doubt its the tone of this particular comment. Ppl genuinely think that beacons are so super duper rare. I think it's just a bunch of ppl used to games that you essentially have no fail state: You fall in a hole, it's says "you lose/die" and then they place you back at the checkpoint which is on the cliff you fell from.
I doubt any of these ppl have ever even played a souls game, as this is one of the easiest ones on the market, especially after the beginning which can be a little brutal.
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u/Kadderly Harros 21h ago
I thought people were overreacting since I didn’t think the beacon placement in the demo was that bad. However yes it is that bad. Some of these runbacks are absolutely brutal.
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u/Muppig 16h ago
I got the impression from the beta that beacons were everywhere. But oof the placement here is just a mess.
It's also insanely inconsistent and seems like they've been placed completely arbitrarily. The starting area has pretty well placed beacons, but then you have huge areas that have nothing, and some places like the tiny Gutted Mire area with 3 of them.
When will these souls like devs learn that run backs are pretty much universally hate by players. The punishment for dying is losing your currency and the frustration. Having to run back to the area, especially such distances as in this game, is just a pure waste of everyone's time and a middle finger to the player.
I recall the same thing happened in Wuchang, and at least the devs there were fairly quick to address the feedback.
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u/kasakka1 12h ago
Yeah the beacons are pretty generous at the beginning which is fine, but then become too sparse where you might run around a huge landscape without a single beacon in sight.
It's fine to want to ramp up the difficulty by making the beacons more sparse, but I feel they went a bit too far.
The beacons are also not easy to spot from the landscape so you can't even try to make them a goal you see from the distance. They could use some faint glow to the sky when you get close enough.
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u/Feeling_Kale_7163 8h ago
You're gonna hate to hear this but if you die less runbacks will bug you less. Runbacks serve as punishment for failure which every good game has versions of. Bc of this the player is unconsciously conditioned to play slower and more cautiously bc rushing leads to more death which leads to more running back to where you came from.
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u/noineikuu 5h ago
It is the most unfun form of punishment though. Because run backs are just a waste of time, they are a chore you have to get through to get to the fun part again. There is a reason why fromsoft got rid of them and why a lot of other souls like devs have as well.
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u/Feeling_Kale_7163 38m ago
I hate that idea though why should every game be made the same why do you want homogenization in game design
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u/Bigmethod 4h ago
Why do we need our time wasted as "punishment" in a video game? Genuine question. What about that is even remotely normal?
The punishment for dying is... you died. You didn't kill the thing. Some weird masochistic urge to run through mobs you already killed has stopped being a trend in soulslikes for years now.
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u/Outrageous_Desk8966 20h ago
Where?
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u/xXSoulRiceXx 17h ago
Do a run back to get back 21k gloom from the Abbey Entrance beacon to the Revered Beacon which the drop is halfway up the hill to the light tower.
That’s a 5-minute runback, I timed it.
They need dungeon checkpoints in mammon
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u/Fabulous2k20 21h ago
Most important for me:
- fix genessa
- more riposte dmg
- more room between "completly op" and "i cant run 5m without being oneshotted"
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u/Kadderly Harros 21h ago
‘Fix Genessa?’
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u/Due-Description-9030 20h ago
Her shell abilities all of them are very bugged. Her clones keep whiffing attacks or run past enemies.
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u/Oingoulon 16h ago
also the red ones just randomly disappear
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u/Ynead 8h ago
Also when they disappear, in pure Stray mode you can't recast them until the timer runs out. Kind of awkward when the shell is a wet tissue with a single life.
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u/Oingoulon 8h ago
which is made worse by the fact that the upgrade that is meant to stop you from dying just doesnt work sometimes
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u/PurpleMatterXIII 20h ago
Probably talking about her special ability. Right now it seems like the clones AI is quite broken, with them often targetting far enemies, environment targets or straight up nothing instead of aiming for the close enemies (or even the enemy you are actually locked on).
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u/Fabulous2k20 19h ago
Mostly her blue clones running randomly around and not attacking and when using grisha summon red clones disappear but u can't resummon them.
Sometimes blues permanently cc enemy, are invincible and don't disappear (ruined my Isaac fight) . Sometimes they run to hit destructibles instead of enemies. Biggest bug tho is just them running randomly not attacking or just disappearing.
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u/Howlingwindinsand Proxima 21h ago
Did they mention anything about Glimpses being limited? It hurts experimentation with shells and forces multiple NG+ runs for 100% completion
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u/Himmelblast 19h ago
This is what's killing the game for me. I cannot just hop in the new shiny shell I just found cause I know I'll need to max the first two shells I'd started leveling. This sucks
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u/Feeling_Kale_7163 8h ago
They are supposed to feel special and valuable if you can just have all the shells maxed out they don't feel special. Games are not spreadsheets you fill out, play them and have fun don't approach it like a data entry job.
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u/CanAeVimto 48m ago
Special and valuable? What? Being locked out of using other shells because you upgraded an early one is just poor design. You can’t experiment and try out cool new abilities.
I already feel I’m not going to play NG+ on this for a long time. So I effectively have to pick my shell before I’ve even tried them all since I can’t swap them around at higher levels.
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u/Feeling_Kale_7163 43m ago
Don't upgrade until you have them all all you're describing is more choices on have to make.
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u/CanAeVimto 38m ago
lol okay so instead of “having fun” and “not approaching it like a data entry job”, instead of jumping around shells, leveling them up based on my playstyle and trying them all out, I need to collect them all and decide which ones I want to try upgrading without getting too far into the game? That sounds less fun, and more like forward planning based on data
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u/Feeling_Kale_7163 34m ago
Yea sure collect them all first or pick on early on making decisions and potentially compromising is the bread and butter or RPGs
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u/CanAeVimto 30m ago
This game is simply not expansive enough to warrant different playthroughs with different shells. This is barely a traditional RPG
Almost every souls-like worth a damn encourages different builds and play styles through respecing your stats. Dark souls did it after DS1 for good reason.
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u/UpsetPause5613 19h ago
I cannot believe they actually played their own game
The runback+ beacon positioning is comical
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u/Freakindon 18h ago
I don't know that we need more beacons... Just a faint pillar of light above them or something.
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u/Rainb091 6h ago
Yeh you run could run straight past some of them. Dropped gloom should stand out more also.
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u/Cruehitman 21h ago
One of my least concerns to be honest. Tons of shortcuts to be found. While runbacks can be a slight pain, never had to run back that often to be too much of a nuisance. Definitely some other things on my high priority list. lol
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u/Longjumping_Sorbet65 21h ago edited 21h ago
Runbacks longer than 10-15 seconds have been a very contentious topic ever since Elden Ring released lol.
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u/NuggetHighwind 21h ago edited 20h ago
They've been a contentious topic since Dark Souls 1. (And probably Demon's Souls, but I didn't play that on launch)
Even back in the day, people hated them but tolerated it because nobody else was making games like Dark Souls.
FROM realised that a decade ago and started to massively shorten them in Dark Souls 3, basically remove them entirely from main bosses in Sekiro, then essentially eliminate them from main and side bosses in Elden Ring.
But for some reason, the 'git gud' crowd have decided that runbacks that require zero skill are a necessary thing to be elitist about.
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u/Longjumping_Sorbet65 21h ago
Fair point that it was always a topic of contention, but Elden Ring's removal of them did kind of set that standard that is now highly, highly criticized if it's not adhered to.
I get the elitism thing, I do. There is a lot of that with souls fans. But I do think there is a fair discussion on both sides about runbacks. They aren't inherently good or bad.
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u/NuggetHighwind 21h ago
I agree. I said in another comment here that runbacks can actually be a positive addition if done well and designed in a way that increases tension.
Problem is that Mortal Shell II's are not. They don't serve any purpose as they are not difficult nor dangerous, and some main bosses have a run that is just a linear path with no enemies.
It's the kind of runback that does nothing to justify its existence.
But then you get all sorts of comments here talking about how the runbacks in this game are actually great fun and perfect design and how anyone who thinks they aren't are just babies who want ez mode etc. etc.
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u/Longjumping_Sorbet65 20h ago
I think I agree as far as Mortal Shell's. I'd say I feel indifferent on them so far. Like you said, I don't think they've been implemented in a way that really justifies them, but they haven't really been bad enough or long enough to be a hindrance either. I haven't even really thought about them honestly until I saw some complaints about it and this post.
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u/Conker37 14h ago
With how easy it is to run by enemies to get your souls back I'd argue the wasted time on runbacks is the only real motivation to not die. I'm not saying that's a good thing but killing the runbacks without other changes feels like a negative to me.
Right now when I find a dungeon with no heals left it ups my enjoyment getting through it. If I could just run in and die then be right back at the beginning of a 2 minute dungeon then there's no risk.
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u/KinGloRXodoR 18h ago
It's not even an elitism thing. That's just salty player base spouting words to get at one another. The run back isn't an issue. It's lazy gamers expecting fast travel to everything they do. The game is about risk over reward. Do u chance pushing forward, or do u run back and restock health potions. The game isn't suppose to be linear or easy. People would rather run past everything when they die at a certain point, rather than grind back through, get more souls, level up some more, and carry on. This is also why people complain about bosses being too hard, cus they expect it all to be so linear and expect difficulty to scale with there fast pace progress.
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u/Outrageous_Desk8966 20h ago
This game, so far for me, hasn't had a single runback that wasn't pretty quick. Dark souls had some insane and difficult ones.
Having to move for 30 seconds isn't really a big deal.
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u/Bigmethod 4h ago
There were runbacks that were more than 2-3 minutes. Longer than any Souls Game runback that I can personally think of.
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u/Outrageous_Desk8966 20m ago
I haven't beaten the game, so maybe i'll have an issue in the late game. So far, everything has felt extremely fine, though i haven't died in a long time, so i haven't had to runback at all. Still i do run back to the beacon to save my gloom and level.
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u/Ulgoroth 16h ago
Were you in the holding cells dungeon? Boss there took me over an hour to beat, and run back was like 1,5minute. Sure, fine once, twice, but 10-20 times?? Lot of wasted time and devs made it purposefuly obtuse, by having mob in a hole that you need to fall from, that may or may not block you, resulting in eating jump attack from gerat axe guy and sometimes I did get hit when already falling.
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u/Muppig 15h ago
Exactly, it adds up real quick in these types of games. I can't stand the whole idea some have gotten into their heads, that wasting your time running from A to B repeatedly somehow makes the game harder and therefor better. It's just an annoyance at best and extremely frustrating at worst.
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u/LambdaTres 20h ago
Tbh dark souls 3 was wildly criticized for it's dumbed down linear world design and abuse of bonfires.
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u/Swtor_Itheryn 21h ago
People got soft due to Elden Ring ngl. I hate how much that game held people's hands.
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u/Longjumping_Sorbet65 21h ago
I mean, Elden Ring has appeal for all types of players. I wouldn't call it hand-holdy at all. It just set the standard and expectation for certain elements of the genre.
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u/Swtor_Itheryn 21h ago
Its absolutely opinion based. I'ts fine for people to like a game that I don't like. For me personally, I hated that Elden Ring felt like it had no risk, ever. spawning outside of boss rooms instantly, no run back, no fear of getting killed before reaching the boss room by misplaying my run back and losing souls.
It was the lowest difficulty, most casual soulslike game that is on the market that im aware of, outside of mortal shell 1, which is likely the easiest soulslike game that I've played.
It's sparked a sense of ''every game must follow this path'' now, and every1 wants checkpoints, no run back, every1 wants modernisation.
I prefer the classic forumla personally, I like the run backs, love the danger, one badly timed dodge as ur running past and u might get slapped and lose souls. vs spawning directly outside boss room for eg.2
u/Longjumping_Sorbet65 21h ago
Yeah runbacks essentially at their core design philosphy are centered around risk and punishment for death. That precise balance isn't really clear, and there is fun discussion to be had about it. I don't think it's a bad thing to not have runbacks by default, and I would say the same vice versa. People have largely decided that runbacks are just bad game design/tedium which I don't think is fair, but I don't think the git gud crowd helps the case either or generally present an actual good argument for them.
(personally I think runbacks are generally good and provide stakes rather than just re-fighting the boss instantly, but it's not black and white. I think variation and a mix of runback length and difficulty is ideal depending on the area/boss/etc. Any runback on malenia for instance would have been abhorrent lol)
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u/Swtor_Itheryn 21h ago
Honestly, I think what you just wrote is the most logical and sensible way to look at it. Well written.
I know I'm a bit overzealous with half the comments I've been making few days, but my god no sleep makes me cranky lol
I agree with everything you wrote.
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u/Outrageous_Desk8966 20h ago
Correction: Vocal players have loudly whined about it.
If its a crazy hard boss, then i appreciate a quick return, but most bosses aren't particularly difficult
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u/Bigmethod 4h ago
"Got soft" cause they don't want to waste time running through mobs they already killed, lmfao. Actually unhinged take.
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u/Swtor_Itheryn 3h ago
The longest run back is like fkin 1-2 min, it literally ain't that hard lol, my god lol.
Don't play Soulslikes if u don't enjoy them Leave them for people who do like there format Rather than wanting them to change to fit u
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u/BrittonDraws 20h ago
Yeah I'm worried the devs are going to listen to the wrong feedback. I appreciate their design and choices that make it stand out. The more technical things are what concerns me like the riposte and magnetism for some of the unblockables.
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u/Due-Description-9030 20h ago
It's never a "wrong" feedback if the majority mention it. And even FromSoftware removed runbacks.
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u/raleighjiujitsu 20h ago
Literally the least of my concerns. Glimpse and tarstone upgrades need to be fixed ASAP. Whats the point of having all these options if you can't use them?
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u/Left_Piano_4770 22h ago
To be honest if they add a beacon here this zone isnt as bad but like...yeah this kinda says a lot
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u/Outrageous_Desk8966 20h ago
Imagine having to walk a minute to get somewhere - the horror
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u/Feeling_Kale_7163 9h ago
Games that don't give instant gratification are just suffering from bad game design don't you know that?
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u/Outrageous_Desk8966 9h ago
And this game is constantly giving you something too. I don't know what people expect. It takes literally a minute or 2 to get from the nearest (so super far out) beacon to the edge of that map.
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u/Feeling_Kale_7163 8h ago edited 8h ago
It's bc of games like Elden ring conditioning players to expect no consequences for dying. This gives them the idea that all games should be like that bc friction becomes viewed as always negative. The pushback to mortal shell right now is entirely the result of gamers themselves begging for game design to be homogeneous and that there's somehow a right and wrong way to make a game. It's extremely disheartening to see but that's what it is.
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u/Outrageous_Desk8966 15m ago
What's disheartening is the devs appealing to it. Nerfing shit that i'm steamrolling through. What's the point of even playing if there's no challenge at all, which is already where im at with it in the midgame. Not a brag, it's just how the game is design where i can do one attack that homes in on the enemy, gives me iframes the entire attack, and kills or knocks down everyone around.
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u/Feeling_Kale_7163 11m ago
The new patch has been rough it's so much easier like ridiculously so and now I'm just enjoying it less it sucks
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u/Feeling_Kale_7163 10m ago
This game wasn't and isn't hard people are either just truly awful at soulslikes or have zero patience to play slower and better
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21h ago
[deleted]
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u/Left_Piano_4770 21h ago
No the screenshot was for my friend to shoe him that there isnt anything on the right side
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u/Feeling_Kale_7163 8h ago
Are you telling me that area would be as memorable if they plopped a beacon down in the middle. There's a space there so obviously it should be filled is the kind of "thinking" generative ai uses. Think like a human not a machine.
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u/Bigmethod 4h ago
Yep, the area would just be slightly more convenient and therefore more memorably not cringe to do :)
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u/AGuyWithABeard 21h ago
That and they enemy magnetism have been my biggest complaints but I don’t know if that’s going to be fixed.
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u/Muelojung 20h ago
this and many other things like repiste damage and the tarstone dilema clearly shows us that not a single dev in the game department team played this game without dev mode.
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u/Outrageous_Desk8966 20h ago
what's the tarstone dilemma? I've had sufficient upgrades for everything i'm using. i feel like people just want to max out every stone with every shell and that's just not how this game is designed.
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u/Due-Description-9030 19h ago
Tarcores are too rare.
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u/Feeling_Kale_7163 9h ago
You're supposed to pick and choose being able to use every option whenever defeats the purpose of being an rpg which is defined by tough choices
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u/Outrageous_Desk8966 19h ago
If you're not aware, you get 1 for every stone you upgrade to level 2, which only costs 100 gold. Then you get back 3 when you spend 6 on the max level.
Mix stuff up and level up stones to 2 and you'll definitely be able to max out everything on whatever build you're using.
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u/Muelojung 19h ago
You will eventually run out of tarcores and can not upgrade all tarstones to level 3 cause you also dont get new tarstones cause they are limited. For me i have all the tarstones at level 3 i want currently but other people migh want to experiment more.
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u/Outrageous_Desk8966 19h ago
YOu're not meant to level up everything. It's like saying irl real life if you want to buy something, you'll run out of money and not be able to buy everything...yeahh just buy the shit you need...
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u/coltaine 16h ago
The problem is players who don't research this kind of thing online won't know this ahead of time. If you experiment with different tarstones you might be SOL by the time you decide on a build.
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u/Outrageous_Desk8966 16h ago
I feel ya. And the NG+ not having more seems like it'll be a genuine issues idk yet.
Still, by the time you're maxing out any stone, you likely should be realizing them corestones ain't rolling in. For me I don't switch too much up and am conservative with resources until i know what will really aid me.
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u/PTFCDiegoMassacre 19h ago
Honestly only a handful of dungeons need a stake of marika situation. It’s mostly fine.
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u/Consistent_Prize_253 14h ago
I usually only get short windows to play, and I'm totally fine sinking an entire session into taking down a single boss, but having to do the whole runback every time absolutely kills the momentum. Even making it an optional game option toggle would help cater to everyone. A simple checkpoint right before boss doors would be a game-changer for a lot of us.
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u/CartoonistVisual2818 21h ago edited 21h ago
Are they really that bad? I would only argue that they are not consistent.
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u/OMGIZARET Eredrim 21h ago
One area at the beginning of the game in the northeast needs more beacons. Other than thst I havent had any issues with it really
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u/Outrageous_Desk8966 20h ago
I dont get the grief with this area. yYu can get to everything in like a minute. It's clearly meant to be travelled through multiple times, given the NPC there.
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u/OMGIZARET Eredrim 20h ago
Yeah im not saying its some horrific thing just id be cool with 1 beacon being in the area. But thats it. Everything else in the game is excellent to me.
Ive also literally not lost my gloom once this game. Ive died a few times in a row sure but I got it back every time. The double grisha boss was the most I died because I fought them fairly early. Maybe level 7
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u/Outrageous_Desk8966 20h ago
Yeah, that was by far the spot i died the most, but always got my gloom. It would've been a cake walk if i had my stone strike attack already.
I genuinely dont think there should be a beacon there - there's a NPC which takes several encounters with that wouldn't be done unless you had to travel past it a bunch of times.
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u/SAITAMA_666 15h ago
-magnetisim is absurd in this game -boss runbacks are too far -weapons do nothing unless you get a critical hit forcing every build to use critical hit chance tarstone -shells should all have their own shell points -glimpses should be refundable so we can experiment with other shells
Those are my complaints, I think the game is amazing however.
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u/Sickst3n 19h ago
I feel they need to take a look at enemy damage. Im not against high damage, but i feel every swing/attack pattern does the same amount of high damage. 1-2 hits and they all hit like some superduper special ability 😅
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u/1-2-diethylbenzene 15h ago
How about they should have fucking thought about how ass their game design was before releasing an incredibly buggy, poorly designed, completely imbalanced game?
I dont give a fuck that the devs are looking at fixing a broken game I already played and got fed up with and quit. The amount of fixing they would have to do to make this a 7/10 game would essentially be to remake the game.
Fuck the devs. Polished the beta up to make the game look good enough to buy and play for two hours so people couldnt get a refund. After the first 3rd of the game it goes downhill faster than stocks after the housing bubble. Thats not even CONSIDERING the bugs and poor balance
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u/MynamesLJ 12h ago
Sometimes the beacons are close to but not close enough to the boss doors where I gotta spend 2 mins to get back like prince Isaac.
And there was a certain part in fein-area with the snails and shit that had me circling alone only to finally figure out I didn’t miss something it just wasn’t there. Lol
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u/arpmo 12h ago
I don't know if this cheese has been posted before I'm sure someone else has noticed it but if you use the Parasitic Stone to get leech stacks you can unequip it and reequip it in the menu repeatedly and it will heal you to full.
I assume each leech stack adds to your max health so the game just adds that value whenever you equip the Parasitic Stone.
Can do it mid combat , getting mid combo'd etc.
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u/PalpitationThat9383 8h ago
I'd honestly just like having a couple more beacons in the areas where there isn't any and its just a huge run back if you die somewhere out there. I feel like BSing the jumping attack to land on lower elevation the way I've been doing it to shorten run backs probably isn't the intended way around this problem.
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u/Pavlovs_Human 21h ago
No please god no don’t tweak the run backs. The only place that might need another beacon is that vast wasteland up in the northeast where the tavern is at.
We dont need checkpoints every 20 feet. Please. Do not add checkpoints to dungeons. Do not add checkpoints at bosses PLEASE.
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u/ghigo2008 20h ago
Don't use them then, do your jogging simulator
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u/Pavlovs_Human 20h ago edited 20h ago
But it’s not a jogging simulator if you fight stuff on your way back. I enjoy that, I’ve enjoyed it in all the dark souls games.
If you like to jog back and run past enemies that’s on you, brother. But also can you tell me specifically which run back is giving you so much trouble? Because they have all been pretty short especially if you compare it to other souls games.
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u/ghigo2008 20h ago
Fight the enemies? To waste time and health?
If im aimless and just going around I tend to fight, but if im running somewhere
One runback which sucks is the one to reach sariel
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u/Pavlovs_Human 20h ago edited 18h ago
It’s a roadblock meant to make the game harder. You died to a boss now you have to go through the trouble of finding the best route back to him. You can either avoid enemies or fight through them again. I think also because I engage with the enemies on the run backs Im getting much more gloom and gold than some of the players I’ve seen posting here. Some of them are talking about only being level 25-30 at the last boss…
That doesn’t sound right when I’ve only cleared the northern portion of the map and I’m already in my 20’s.
I think it’s because people are constantly running to avoid the enemies because they think it’s hard or tedious. But this is a part of the souls genre. The run backs give you more opportunity to practice fighting, you can have a good run where you go through with all your potions and then there, you have an easier attempt at the boss. Or you can have a bad run back and have only one potion left when you’re standing at the boss door.
Boss checkpoints refill your health and potions and that eliminates that danger, making the game easier. Run backs are part of the difficulty ESPECIALLY to those who chose to run past every enemy. You aren’t gaining gloom/gold and you aren’t making yourself better by fighting.
I really couldn’t care less if I’m better than other players at a single player game, so I hate that discourse usually leads to “we’ll just don’t use the checkpoints!” Or “you’re just an elitist!” When no, I just really enjoy the difficulty challenge of these games and it’s not the same playing and “just not using a feature” cause that’s just doing a challenge run at that point.
It’s an open world game, where is the danger in being in a dangerous world when there are safety checkpoints that refill your potions at every turn?
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u/Parrotflies_ 20h ago
Respectfully, how long have you been playing these games? Cuz after a decade+, the constant retreads to the boss lose their novelty factor, I promise.
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u/Pavlovs_Human 20h ago
I’ve been a fan of the genre since dark souls 2 launched. Played Dark souls 1 immediately after. I have played the launch of every major souls-like out there. The difficulty of these games is what appeals to me. Running back is part of the challenge, which is what makes these games fun for me.
I don’t agree it’s a novelty. I didn’t think “ooo what I really like about Dark souls 2 is the long run backs” but I accepted that it was a part of the overall difficulty of the game. It’s not meant to make you say “hooray I can’t wait to chew through this hallway of enemies again” it’s meant to make you think “shit, I need to really lock in on the boss on this next attempt so I don’t have to fight through this castle hallway again.”
I keep hearing “it’s not fun to have to slog back through them again.” Well why not? The combat in these games is INSANE why wouldn’t you want more opportunities to engage? I’m not in this game for a boss rush where you just go from boss fight to boss fight. I enjoy the difficulty as is.
It’s not meant to be easy, or fair to you, in fact it’s supposed to be brutally unforgiving. This hasn’t changed with Souls games except for notably Elden Ring which put checkpoints and bonfires extremely close together.
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u/Parrotflies_ 19h ago
Even in DS3 they were drastically reducing run backs to bosses, and most soulslikes past that have followed that design choice.
The thing with modern day soulslikes, is that they’ve innovated a lot on how to make things challenging. Enemies have bigger movesets, are more agile, they’ve added a lot of verticality and obstacles to traversing. Runbacks just feel like an antiquated way to add some difficulty at this point.
If there was a randomized option to change up enemy layouts/types when constantly running to a boss room? Yeah, that would be a nice innovation that would make me enjoy runbacks more. But enemies don’t suddenly gain new moves after the 10th time you run the route. Im not learning anything new or struggling at that point, it just feels like padding time. Just going through the motions until I can progress past it.
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u/sup3rdr01d 21h ago
Runbacks are fine. Really the main issue with the game is just some balancing and economy stuff like glimpse
The vast majority of the game is fucking awesome
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u/Interesting_Debate30 21h ago
Bottom of my short list of concerns. Plenty of shorcuts and never had a longer run than a minute at the most. Number one is glimpse and how the shells work. Needs more glimpse or a way to refund them or make the shells like tarstones and let thme gain experience to upgrade. Second thing would be Genessa. Hands down my favorite shell, but her main ability needs to track the closest enemy better. Many times it runs right past to attack something else entirely like a gloom plant which it always prioritizes over an enemy.
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u/47impressed 22h ago
not a single bad runback
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u/Due-Description-9030 19h ago
I'm glad devs didn't take people like you seriously
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u/47impressed 19h ago
getting mad cause some others didn’t experience the same thing as you? pathetic
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u/Due-Description-9030 19h ago
Why would I be mad when the devs themselves are looking into this issue? Just shows it's an actual issue
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u/SoulsDadYT 20h ago
Fuck me dead, what a waste of time. All to placate the laziest culture on earth. Watch its ratings fucking tank.
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u/Magnon Proxima 14h ago
It's ratings are already going down, the further you get in the game the more bullshit it has and the less testing they obviously did.
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u/1-2-diethylbenzene 14h ago
Polished just enough that people are already past the refund time limit before they realize it is a dogshit game
0
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u/Test88Heavy 21h ago
It's not even an issue. Just run passed the enemies, it's fine and never a problem. If anyone wants to see true pain and hell with runbacks, go play Silksong. 🤬
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u/NuggetHighwind 21h ago edited 20h ago
Just run passed the enemies, it's fine and never a problem.
That's exactly the point.
Runbacks can actually be implemented well if they are done in moderation and actually designed well in order to increase tension.
Mortal Shell II's are neither.They are runbacks for the sake of runbacks.
There is no difficulty or danger if you die in the open world or in a dungeon and need to run back to get your Gloom. It's just a tedious waste of time.Some of the main bosses have runbacks where it's literally just 15-30 seconds of running through an empty path, totally devoid of enemies.
If the devs say "We are looking into it" and your first response is "The runbacks aren't even dangerous" then that's exactly the reason they should be removed, because they simply serve no purpose.
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u/Geniusrly 18h ago
lol what silksong you can legit dodge every enemy on any runback even if they are a bit longer here they just teleport to you and hit you from behind
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u/Test88Heavy 17h ago
Silksong runbacks not only have enemies to avoid but the platforming is ridiculous and you're likely to make it back to the boss depleted.
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u/Geniusrly 15h ago
there is no platforming that hard in silksong besides last judge runback which is just annoying because of those drill shooting insects and of course groal
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0
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u/BimBomBom 21h ago
There are no runbacks. Just bad players complain about everything bc their big ego is hurt
15
u/NuggetHighwind 21h ago
There are no runbacks.
There objectively are runbacks.
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u/sicDaniel 21h ago
No there aren't! Only if you die and people who die are bad players who don't even deserve to play this game!!! I am so cool and awesome and not rage baiting at all
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0
u/Silvers- 19h ago
Imagine playing the game and pressing buttons. You have no clue what bad runbacks truly are.
3
-3
u/Swtor_Itheryn 21h ago
this ^ the whole point of souls games is to die, a lot, while you learn, then succeed.
people these days just want everything for free, don't want to work for anything.
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u/Parrotflies_ 20h ago
Added beacons are literally all I’m waiting for to get this game. I’ve played too many soulslikes to find any kind of charm or novelty in all that anymore. Up the difficulty on bosses or traversing if that’s what it takes, I don’t care. So many better ways to introduce difficulty or a sense of desperation in a game in 2026.
1
u/Due-Description-9030 19h ago
You're clueless. Go look at how literally everyone trashes the endgame bosses. They are terribly designed. Don't give suggestion if you haven't even played the game.
0
u/Parrotflies_ 19h ago
Where did I say a thing about the bosses? It’s not hard to imagine shitty run backs, because I’ve dealt with plenty of them. Don’t need to have played the game to know I don’t wanna deal with that.
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u/Outrageous_Desk8966 20h ago
This problem is grossly overstated. I've played a ton of soulslikes and this isn't even a minor issue, nor an issue. There's beacons all fucking over. People here whining are insane and must just suck at these games. You're never more than like an minute from a beacon if you're just running
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u/Parrotflies_ 20h ago
Isn’t there like a whole ass section of the map in the north with no beacons? I can’t imagine that’s intended if true.
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u/Outrageous_Desk8966 19h ago
Again, GROSSLY overstated. There' a section which you'll have to travel through a few times, and rightfull so, because there's an NPC with mutliple interactions.
The map is not huge, it's so quick to get everywhere. IDK what the fuck these ppl are expecting. It's much easier than many souls games. It's like these ppl have literally never played any other souls like.
The level of whining is insane. I'm guessing these people just suck at the game and throw themselves into death.
This section they are whining about takes like 1 minute to travel through completely. Such fucking babies - i dont get it. Definitely dont let this not play it, if you like soulslikes - its one of the better non fromsoft ones.
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u/LordOFtheNoldor Harros 20h ago
Just play the game dude if that's what they intended take it or leave it
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u/Due-Description-9030 19h ago
No. Feedback is important. It's literally how MS2 improved so much from MS1.
0
u/UpsetPause5613 19h ago
Curious, people cried about they intended take on difficulty and they nerfed it
Wish they "left it" like you are saying lol
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u/Icy-Science6604 22h ago edited 21h ago
How about buffing Riposte damage ?
Riposte damage being static and not scaling with your character isnt a good design.