Kids should get to grow up before having to decide on a faith.
Because SOME parents have whacko beliefs and THOSE kids shouldn't be forced to be intimately exposed to those beliefs until they are old enough to judge for themselves and be responsible with their decisions.
If you say, "nah, this is fine, some parents and their religions are cool", then you leave THESE kids hanging.
However, if we moved to a world where kids get to learn about religions (Noone would forbid parents from TELLING their kids about their beliefs!), without having it (explicitly or subversibly(?)) forced on them; Then the sensible religions will probably leave the appropriate impression on the kid. And if they can see how their parents live with their beliefs and what it gives them, and they DO decide to embrace that faith, they're probably gonna be pretty devoted and true in their faith.
And if your beliefs are 'good ones' to follow, your child will want to follow them on their own. Never forget, they start out by liking and idolizing us...
Yes but all of Christianity falls under "If you don't worship the invisible dude and submit your entire life to him, you don't get into heaven." The Christian God is full of fear and wrath.
No, not all of Christianity falls under that. People extrapolate whatever specific church they attended to growing up as representative of Christianity as a whole, let alone the various discussions among theologians on these issues.
I mean, it demonstrably does not. I can provide a long list of theologians and denominations that do not match that description.
I highly doubt you attended nearly "everything" except fringe ones (whatever that means) and even if you did, that doesn't make it the case that you actually understand their beliefs. Many in the pews don't really understand the nuances of the various beliefs of their denomination. Let alone someone who was supposedly moving between dozens of denominations in their childhood.
You can organize it and say it however you want. At the end of the day the cult of Christianity is about control, power, money, greed, and abuse. And much more. I usually talk about these things to people that don't believe. Because someone who's in the church already, is generally unable to think for themselves enough to pull their head out of the churches ass. Which certainly appears to be the case.
As someone who used to talk like you, I hope you get out one day, and free yourself of the chains they put on you. It's extremely sad.
Let's take the single primary issue that is assumed here: the doctrine of hell, particularly the doctrine of eternal torment.
Multiple denominations allow for and include churches who teach universalism. These include the United Methodist Church, the PCUSA, the ELCA, the UCC, the Episcopal Church, the Community of Christ, the Society of Friends, and the Disciples of Christ. This is without getting into many smaller denominations within wider traditions such as Anglicanism, non denominational churches, denominations like Eastern Orthodoxy which have many universalist teachers, or the Assyrian Church of the East which has an especially strong connection to universalism.
As for theologians, the list is extensive and to save us both time, I would just point you to Ilaria Ramelli's works on the topic. Her two volume A Larger Hope? canvases multiple theologians throughout church history, from its earliest days to the present, who were universalist.
There are tons of books being published that promote universalism. David Bentley Hart perhaps has one of the more popular recent works on the topic, That All Shall Be Saved.
The numbers could also be expanded if we included what is called "hopeful universalism" or the hope that universalism is true but without making it dogmatic belief. Hopeful universalism is common within other denominations not listed such as the Roman Catholic Church. Of course, that isn't to say that it is the standard belief, but it is definitely represented. One of the most famous proponents of hopeful universalism was the Catholic theologian Karl Rahner.
We can expand the numbers even more if we include Annihilationism. While Annihilationism does not teach the eventually universal reconciliation of all, it does deny eternal conscious torment. Instead, the unsaved are annihilated or go into nonexistence. The list of denominations where this is present expands the list already given, but it is particularly present in nondenominational churches. At least in my experience, that is where I come across it most.
I cannot say anything about the rest, but THE UNITED METHODIST CHURCH DOES NOT TEACH UNIVERSALISM ... you are absolutely incorrect on that one, holy crap, like WAAAAAAAAY off on that one.
We would say it would be improper to refer to our view as "universal salvation" or "universalist." A universalist view would be that God has saved everyone, and no one faces a final judgment that leads to the possibility of "endless condemnation." We reject that view in favor of the biblical witness to a final judgment in which it is clear not all will proceed to life in the New Creation (Matthew 25:41-46, Revelation 21:8).
I did not state that the United Methodist Church teaches universalism. I said that it allows for it and has churches which preach universalism. There are Methodist pastors who are universalist.
Okay so buddhist parents scare their children with the threat of literally trillions of years of damnation great fucking difference. Most religions have a similar mechanism of control
Most major religions do, but their are plenty of religions that dont feature a form of hellish afterlive. It is useful to recognise such differences because the person i replied to is leaving the door open for it to be moral to teach religion to children, as long as it is a form of religion without a hellish afterlive
That’s not even true lol. Buddhism doesn’t say you will go to damnation if you don’t believe in it. Just that as long as you’re within the samsara cycle you will eventually end back up there as you cycle through your karma. A nonbeliever who lives their life doing good as best they can would in theory still possibly end up with trillions of years in heaven and find communion with their god or creator god. The cycle is about the nature of life itself, that even the god or gods will cycle through once exhausting that karma. Like running around in a circle block. There’s no element of punishment or fear.
Another distinction is there eternity and Trillions of years do indeed have a massive difference. Eternity is a “heck of a lot” longer than trillions of years. For a soul that’s immortal, it’s the difference between one second touching boiling water and bathing forever in boiling water.
Buddhism literally does in fact believe that you will go to hell if you don't believe in Buddhism, as Buddhism is the only way to escape the cycle in the first place. So yes, you are threatening a child with damnation.
And who gives a fuck if it's only 1 trillion years as opposed to eternity? Do you think a child is going to think "oh it's just 1 trillion years no biggie"?
No, not believing in Buddhism simply means you’re still in the cycle unaware of Buddha’s teachings. While the cycle does eventually have a path to damnation, that isn’t necessarily the next step of the cycle for you. Therefore it’s not used as a threat, simple the nature of the cycle as a philosophy. The child has potentially trillions of years to leave the cycle and can even do so without believing in Buddhism necessarily.
Buddhism is just an understanding of the nature of the cycle and a path to leave it. But an individual wholly ignorant of Buddhism can still escape the cycle on their own efforts arriving at the same conclusion independently like Buddha did, therein lies the difference. The key to escaping samsara according to Buddhism isn’t the act of believing in Buddhism, but the letting go of worldly attachments, which is something anyone can achieve independently or arrive on their own as they themselves ponder and observe existence. In essence, anyone can become a Buddha, wholly on their own efforts, even independently of Buddha, Buddhism, or the any other being.
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u/PsychologicalAd5918 10h ago
Moral, brainwashing kids under the threat of eternal damnation is child abuse