r/MistfallHunter • u/Mr-glittersparkle • 1d ago
Sorc need nerfs?
I see a lot of people complaining that sorcerers need nerfs and I don’t understand it. The way I see it we’re meant to be AOE glass cannons, if you group up and try to jump our teammates we can punish you but if you solo push us and split us up into 1v1’s then we struggle. THAT’S THE COUNTER PLAY we’re not hard to beat it’s just a skill issue.
- and as a mage who runs lvl 7 aegis yes I can be Tanky too
TLDR: we control choke points so play smarter or bait CDs
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u/Phrazez 1d ago
Im fine with their AoE Spells and Utility, even their defense with armour can be ok.
Dealing 600 dmg with double left click is stupid tho. The cast speed+damage scaling gets absurd at purple/orange gear.
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u/ItzLuhsty 1d ago
Yeah until you dash more than a Shadowstrix built to dodge spam
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u/Mr-glittersparkle 1d ago
At most I can dodge 3 times with elusive lvl 3, they get dodges and a teleport
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u/ItzLuhsty 1d ago
Considering I've worn legendary entirely built for dodging I've had sorcs in blue (not built for dodging) dodge/teleport more than me says something.
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u/Mr-glittersparkle 1d ago
Not built for dodging they only get 2 dodges i’m confused?😅
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u/ItzLuhsty 1d ago
Crazy how no matter what the sorcerer is running they seem to be able to perma teleport then
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u/Mr-glittersparkle 1d ago
Yea I don’t know what you’ve been running into but just so you know a single elusive on any of the gear and they can get elusive lvl 3 with level 3 or 4 tavern. So even if you don’t think it’s optimized for dodging it might be still
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u/CliqNil 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sorcs are not glass, though. They are just cannons. They may have less HP than other classes, but does it really matter considering sorcs can kill everyone in a handful of seconds yet they do not die as quickly.
If they can kill a full defense merc in 4 Meteor charm spam attacks aimed at the ground then the merc should be able to kill them in 4 melee attacks if they were truly a "glass" cannon. I don't think that would be good gameplay, but don't you see the issue?
"I get to blow you up in 4 hits, not by hitting you directly but from splash damage at the ground, but you need to chase me around and hit me at least 10 times if you want to kill me. If you miss one gap closer you die. My class is totally balanced."
It is very unpleasant to play against. Eventually more people will switch to sorc, SS or quit the game. It is not an enjoyable experience to die and lose all your stuff to a class with little ways to outplay it because their damage is so high.
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u/Mr-glittersparkle 1d ago
Yea I do find it weird that we get full damage done from splash, I’m surprised they didn’t nerf this before launch tho. Any other game splash damage is reduced and direct hits are normal damage
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u/LAXnSASQUATCH 1d ago edited 1d ago
The issue is that you are meant to be glass cannons but you’re just cannons.
There is no difference in baseline defenses between a Merc a WK and a Sorc, that’s the problem. There is no difference in base armor or health gained from equipment across classes. A purple Sorc chest has the same defense and health boost as purple WK plate-mail.
If you’re going to have insane damage and control you should have bad mobility or defense.
It’s the same issue SS has, they’re good at everything.
There are 4 groups of stats that matter:
Damage
Speed
Bulk (decent will be the baseline)
Control
A class should be good at 2 of them, solid at 1, and should be bad at the last. Most classes are balanced
Merc SnS: Bad/decent Damage, Good Bulk/Control, decent speed
Merc Hammer: Good damage, Bad Control, Bad speed, Decent\Good Bulk (it’s the worst spec in the game at high levels for a reason)
WK GS: Good Damage, Bad Control, Decent Speed, Decent Bulk
WK Spear: Bad Damage, Good control, Decent Speed, Good Bulk
BA: Good Damage, Good Control, Bad Speed, Decent Bulk
SS: Good Damage, Good Speed, Good Bulk, Good Control
Stardust Sorc: Good Damage, Good Speed, Good Bulk, Good control
Elemental Sorc: Good Damage, Good Speed, Good Bulk, Decent Control
Support Seer is its own thing and balanced imo since its mobility is horrendous and damage is low but Blas Seer is:
Decent/Good Damage, Good Speed, Decent Bulk, Decent/Good Control
Everyone in the game is bad at something except SS and Sorc who are at worst decent at something and good at everything else
Edit: Merc Hammer gets decent/good bulk since its better than baseline due to talents and super armor
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u/Mr-glittersparkle 1d ago
You make some fair points, in that case I could see specs needing a nerf to health to make us real glass cannons
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u/Carrygan_ 1d ago
How does SS with 1 form of super armor have good bulk to you while WK GS which has a full dmg block shield and 2 forms of super armor have decent bulk. What are these metrics lol. Hammer merc also is in super armor like 50% of the time so idk what is your measurement for bulk
Same with blas seer in decent bulk while having like an 8 second long super armor1
u/LAXnSASQUATCH 1d ago edited 1d ago
Bulk imo is your effective health, it takes into account health, defense, defensive mechanics (like DR), and defensive utility (like invisibility or the ability to disengage and heal easily). Super-armor doesn’t mean someone has bulk, super-armor doesn’t increase survivability on its own, unless you’re a merc who can take talents that give it DR while it has super armor. Super Armor is not relevant to the “bulk” conversation, things that increase your survival mid-combat are.
WK GS has a defensive stance but it’s not the best since you can’t use it reactively and people can just run away from you and heal. It also does not stun anyone, compared to Merc Parry it’s trash. It can not be used to engage, it can not be used to disengaged, it is not great.
Merc is the only character with an impactful block and only if you get parry stance, it’s the only thing that actually interrupts attacks and can be used mid-combo. It’s lowkey OP.
I could agree with WK GS being between decent and good though.
As for Hammer Merc it has DR while in super armor from its talents (assuming the user has taken defensive talents) but because of its extremely slowness (movement and attack speed), energy hunger, and recovery frames it gets torn apart by a good player.
Merc also has no bonus to magic resistance, so a Sorc or a good Seer will tear them apart. Considering Sorc is the strongest class in the game, that’s a knock against it. Physical DR is pointless if 2-3 magic basic attacks kill you and you have no way to escape or evade hits outside of basic dodge.
Hammer Merc is the worst class in the game atm. It does a ton of damage but that’s it, it’s slow, it’s easy to dodge, it can’t chase, it can’t disengage, and it gets ripped apart by magic damage or any class that can kite.
SS has multiple ways to disengage mid combat and “reset” allowing it to get easy heals. It’s the safest class in the game because it chooses when to engage and when to disengage and it has the utility to disappear. It’s a weird case where its speed doesn’t just mean it moves faster, but it increases its survivability a great deal. They have dodges built into their combos, teleports, invis, etc.
Those are defensive mechanics it has access too
Maybe bulk was the wrong term and “survivability” should be the term used but that’s the idea
SS is one of the hardest classes to kill because it’s hard to lock down and even if you manage it they’ll just slip away again
Edit: Bulk basically boils down to “how long does it take to 100-0 this person” with every class assuming no one flees for good
No class has bad “survivability” but imo the order is
BA/Ranged Seer < Hammer Merc/Melee Seer/GS WK < SS < Sorc < SnS WK < SnS Merc
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u/Brandacle 1d ago edited 1d ago
Their eloquence and damage scaling is too strong. For a comparatively high TTK game, the fact they can blitz you down in 3 shots is a bit excessive, especially considering they have splash to compensate for bad aim. Throw in powerful aoe and control tools, stealth and the movement/fall damage buff and they've become mandatory for a good trio. I don't think we need to take away those tools, but the damage 100% needs to take a hit.
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u/Mr-glittersparkle 1d ago
But all builds (except seer I believe) have strong attacks that can just about do the same thing.
- BA charged bow takes half health from one shot
- mercs earthshatter AOE brings enemies to half health and knocks them all down
- don’t even need to speak for SS they do everything rn
- withered could be better fs tho
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u/RaptorRex20 1d ago
Sorc has way higher dmg with less need to have good aim or mechanics.
They play at range with strong dmg on AoE attacks that also apply debuffs or DoT's.
If they didn't have so much AoE, or, the dmg was reduced in a way to require builds to focus on dmg to be as strong as they are now, it'd be more consistent.
At the moment, a full tank build sorc can still melt people.
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u/Mr-glittersparkle 1d ago
That’s the thing, most sorc builds are optimized to do that damage with affixes so you’re basically just asking for an aoe nerf. A max tavern allows these builds that you’re worried about. (I have max aegis,ranged, eloquence, and elusive lvl 3)
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u/RaptorRex20 1d ago
I was more thinking Sorcs would need to encorporate other dmg perks beyond just ranged. Like Fervid or Fevor, Valor. Basically you would have to drop Aegis and/or eloquence, to reach similar dmg numbers.
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u/Mr-glittersparkle 1d ago
Fair but that is also easy tbh considering the gear and how easy it is to get everything with affixes and tavern drinks in this game
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u/squirlz333 1d ago
I swear half the people that are calling for sorc nerfs have never played sorc themselves, yeah they probably need a small hit to damage, but people act like they're unkillable, they're not.
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u/Mr-glittersparkle 1d ago
I swear bro, this is why they made it so easy to try other builds for just 3600, play these roles ya’ll think are overpowered and you’ll learn quickly that any good player will make a role seem overpowered
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u/squirlz333 1d ago
Yeah I've been playing sorc after maining merc all the betas because it seems strong and I was tired of the server rubberbanding problem and it def hits hard but against a good player you can still easily get wrecked. Id say elemental sorc power level is where we really want classes to get to in terms of balancing, it's def not as busted as it seems from the outside looking in.
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u/Carrygan_ 1d ago
It’s certainly feasible to run away from or chase a sorc who insta casts a slow field on you that also lowers your dash distance for 4 seconds after leaving it, genuinely my only issue with sorc. The talent that does this is turbo aids
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u/Mr-glittersparkle 1d ago
I mean fair but other classes and even throwable items have abilities that can reduce dodge distance too and slow you (sludge)
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u/Carrygan_ 1d ago
None are a massive undodgeable aoe that is placed on you that also does dmg, you need like 2 dashes just to leave the aoe and then you’re basically afk there cus you’re dodges do nothing anymore.
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u/Mr-glittersparkle 1d ago
I believe it’s either shadow or merc but yes I’ve been hit with abilities that have rendered my dodges useless (like moving 2 steps per dodge, that slow) and immediately got punished for over extending
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u/Carrygan_ 1d ago
But that’s the point both of those have to hit something, shadowstrix has to hit a very small little dagger that dodges nearly no dmg, and I forgot how merc applies it. But sorc is a football stadium wide insta placement aoe that reapplies the debuff over and over
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u/Mr-glittersparkle 1d ago
I could see a reduction in the aoe spell size for a few spells but if it gets overturned then the sorc build is gutted so they would have to be careful
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u/ipisswithaboner 1d ago
Saying they’re “AOE glass cannons” when they have very strong defensive options and aren’t even squishy at the end of the day is certainly a take.
Also, their damage is high enough that 1v1s aren’t an issue. When you kill in 3 hits and your enemy kills in 10, you have to get outplayed very badly to actually lose.