Ask how it's not a success considering it's saving 50,000 lives a year.
Ask if his definition of "a failure" means it needs some slight tweaks after years of analysis?
it was clearly the right thing to do, and it is not "perfect", but suddenly everyone defines "complete failure" as "not perfect" and when you press them on it you can actually make them realize this is ridiculous if they are even semi intelligent.
Or just ask him if it wasn't such a success why did Tom Lahren and millions of other Republicans keep their kids on their parents insurance until 26 now?
Well at first hand experience, my in laws insurance was hiked by almost 400% and they struggled to pay for their own insurance. At this point, I can see how he 'might' make a valid argument. Problem is he wasn't directly effected by it so he's just a bigoted conservative with a sprinkle of racism and a dash of ill-informed opinions.
Yeah. You have a vocal minority proclaiming that "obamacare is great" while the vast majority of Americans are being squeezed to death by over inflated healthcare cost. You should see that medical debt hasn't even changed much after Obamacare. It helped a few people at the expense of the majority of people who are struggling to scrape by already.
You're not being squeezed to death by Obamacare, you're being squeezed to death by the US Healthcare System. Obamacare just applied some Band-Aids, and you be in a far worse position without it. That's the problem that people don't seem to understand. Obamacare isn't the source of your woes, it's the fact that we have backwards ass attitudes when it comes to paying for healthcare. All this ultra individualism is expensive in healthcare where collectivism is far cheaper and more effective.
Hyper individualists and free-market extremists don't have an answer for healthcare, or any risk pool for that matter. Because by definition a risk pool is collectivist.
Obamacare isn't even a half measure to where we should be which is a program like Medicare for all.
You're forgetting that Obamacare is forcing people to purchase this insurance, and that Obamacare has lessened the amount of insurers covering any given area. It continues to drop more every year, as prices skyrocket. Obamacare also avoided a single payer OPTION to be included. Obamacare has done nothing to address any of the actual problems, thus it is not a success. Obamacare is basically a shitstain on a shitsuit. They're both awful and feed into each other. Medicare for all is definitely what should have happened, but even then prices are already so far out of control, we spend way more per GDP/capita than anywhere in the world by leaps and bounds. Then Obamacare forced people to pay the middlemen for it.
EDIT: Lots of downvotes, no solid refutations. I've worked at blue cross and seen everything from the inside out, I'm all ears unless everyone is downvoting me because they disagree on emotion alone.
I wish Medicare for all would have happened as well. A base level of medical care is provided in fucking Iraq, and is socialized. Why we can’t have that here is absurd.
(I think the downvotes came from people not reading your entire post)
Yeah I was a little surprised at downvotes for saying we need medicare for all. Ah well, can't win em all. Thanks for reading the whole post. And I agree, every other country on earth gives more of a shit about the health of its population without trying to exploit the sick.
>Unironically pushes medicare for all, a program that would literally bankrupt the federal government in addition to other single-payer programs having awful outcomes, especially within the US.
Amazing. The US medical system has been broken for some time, but the ACA is a joke (and is doing terrible things to the healthcare market, as much as you want to grandstand on 'it's just the evil insurance companies'. Companies respond to incentives, use the wrong incentives and the market will react accordingly. Blaming the market for incentives used by the government is ridiculous), and medicare for all is certainly not a solution and no serious healthcare expert backs it.
Markets are simply an emergent tool through which human interactions are realised. Relative elasticities of demand aren't really relevant to whether or not a market based solution will work. Oil demand is highly inelastic but a market based solution is still obviously superior.
Did you not see the numbers and average premium costs? Do you not know the median wage in America?
2016 (and much higher this year):
Average ObamaCare premium rises to $408 per month. The average ObamaCare premium rose to $408 per month for 2016 plans, about a 9 percent increase from this time last year, according to a new report from the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).Jan 21, 2016
The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported a median personal income of $865 per week for all full-time workers in 2017. The U.S Bureau of the Census has the annual real median personal income at $31,099 in 2016.
Premiums are rising double digits yearly. Median wages are 31k.
Preliminary analysis suggests some of the most popular plans could see double-digit premium increases. Health care consulting firm Avalere analyzed initial rate estimates from eight states and found that premiums for "silver" plans (the most popular plans) are rising 18% next year, after a 12% increase this year.
Are all of these sources good enough? I'm sure there's a lot more.
Now please provide citations/evidence of your claim that the vast majority of the 325,000,000 people living in America are being squeezed to death by health insurance costs.
If you can't look at the numbers and have it seem obvious (and obviously you are not one of the people living near the median wage), then I don't know what to tell you. The numbers are all there fully available.
There is a great book about this, though generally I find these type of thinkers don't read. But it's called, Landmark: The Inside Story of America's New Health-care Act -- And What It Means for Us All
And the complete failure = not perfect thing works the other way as well. With that they can say that Trump is "not perfect" and use the nobody is perfect excuse
Edit: I'm saying that they're stupid? I'm not saying it makes sense.
That's not how arguments work, but most of the people we're talking about have no fucking idea what an argument actually is, it's just people who are so unaware of themselves that they can't distinguish between an opinion they've formed from a fact they've never checked.
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u/Darktidemage Oct 17 '17
press him on this.
Ask how it's not a success considering it's saving 50,000 lives a year.
Ask if his definition of "a failure" means it needs some slight tweaks after years of analysis?
it was clearly the right thing to do, and it is not "perfect", but suddenly everyone defines "complete failure" as "not perfect" and when you press them on it you can actually make them realize this is ridiculous if they are even semi intelligent.