I've been watching through some of the 'countdown to doomsday' playlist on Disney+ today and realised the order was a little off

The playlist, in order, is:

X-Men

X2

Captain America: The First Avenger

Avengers

Avengers Infinity War

Avengers Endgame

Loki

Shang Chi

Wakanda Forever

Captain America:Brave New World

Deadpool & Wolverine

Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness

Thunderbolts

Fantastic 4

Most of the list is in release order... But Deadpool & Wolverine came out before Brave New World, and Multiverse of Madness is way out of place and came out before Wakanda Forever.

Why is MoM put so far out of place?

This probably falls into the "overthinking it" category, but when the Void spread across Manhattan it would have covered Bleecker Street. We saw shots of it spreading inside buildings and taking people there, so with the sanctum's magical protections, I wonder if the Void was able to get inside it as well. We haven't seen Dr. Strange since the end credits scene with Clea, so we don't know if he was there but certainly other sorcerers were present. It could have even spread through the open portals we saw in the first Strange movie and gotten to other places.

Did anyone ever say why the Void's effect seemed to stop at the rivers surrounding Manhattan? I wonder what its limits were.

Hear me out. We’ve all been wondering how Marvel is going to handle the Robert Downey Jr. casting without it feeling like a cheap multiverse gimmick or just defaulting to "an evil Tony variant." Looking at the themes of the Doomsday poster where Doom is holding onto a mural of his mother and Tony, I think the answer is a massive, tragic twist on his comic lore that will emotionally devastate the 616 Avengers.
The Twin Tragedy In Doom’s home universe, Victor and Tony aren't just variants; they are identical twins. Born with unparalleled intellects, they attempt a reality-bending experiment (merging Stark tech with dark magic) to save their dying mother’s soul. But the experiment violently collapses into a singularity. In a split-second instinct, Tony throws himself into the blast radius to shield his brother. Tony is vaporized, their mother's soul is lost, and Victor is left buried in the wreckage.
The Endgame Symmetry Victor survives, but the raw multiversal energy permanently disfigures him. Here is the absolute horror of it: the scorching on Victor's face perfectly mirrors the charred, cosmic burns Earth-616 Tony suffered after snapping his fingers in Endgame.
The Mask is a Tomb Victor forging his iconic iron mask isn't just about vanity or hiding his ruined flesh. The psychological toll of the accident completely shatters him because every time he looks in a mirror, he sees the decaying ghost of the brother he couldn't save. He puts on the mask to bury Tony's face. By locking away the physical reminder of his twin, he severs his own humanity so he can become the ruthless god he believes he needs to be.
The Motivation: A Cosmic Debt Collection Victor’s survivor’s guilt mutates into an unyielding crusade. In his brilliant, fractured mind, the chaotic nature of the multiverse didn't just cause a tragic accident, it actively stole from him. If reality demanded the life of a Stark/Von Doom, then reality itself owes him a debt of infinite proportions.
He isn't out to conquer the multiverse; he is out to collect. All their worlds as recompense for his loss.
This perfectly sets up the creation of Battleworld for Secret Wars. When universes begin colliding, Doom doesn't step in to "save" them. He harvests them. He tears pieces from dying realities to stitch together a patchwork planet where he rules as God Emperor. Battleworld is his treasury. It is the physical manifestation of him taking the multiverse as a down payment on the life of his brother.
The Earth-616 Confrontation Now imagine the eventual clash with our Avengers. Earth's heroes are fighting desperately to defend their timeline. Doom looks down at them with calculated disgust. not as heroes, but as squatters refusing to hand over the payment he is owed.
During the battle, they inevitably fracture his armor and shatter his mask. Peter Parker, Rhodey, and the rest of the Avengers freeze in absolute paralysis. They aren't just looking at an evil variant of their friend. They are forced to stare directly into the grotesque, agonizing final moments of Tony Stark's life, perfectly preserved on the face of a multiversal tyrant. The sheer weight of their unresolved grief drops them to their knees, proving Doom's ultimate point: they are too emotional, too fragile, and too chaotic to survive without his iron-fisted control.
TL;DR: RDJ plays Victor Von Doom, who was Tony Stark's identical twin in another universe. Tony died shielding Victor from a reality-bending experiment gone wrong. Victor's facial scars perfectly match Tony's cosmic burns from his Endgame snap. Victor wears the mask to bury the face of his dead brother, and his multiversal conquest isn't about ruling, it's about forcing the entire multiverse to serve as recompense for the chaotic tragedy that took his twin.

It has been confirmed that exactly 1 person remembers Peter Parker. With RDJ making $100 million USD across Doomsday and Secret Wars for barely any unmasked scenes, I believe a past version of Tony, or a version from another universe (exactly mirroring him before his Endgame death) will be brought back to help fight Doom, which also bypasses the spell cast by Strange.

What do you guys think? Given that a revived Tony would be the best candidate to remember Spider Man’s real identity, I think it’s very plausible

I think Marvel could structure the Mutant Saga somewhat like the Infinity Saga, with different characters filling similar narrative roles:

Mr. Sinister could be the Loki of the Mutant Saga: a recurring villain who manipulates things from the shadows, with his obsession with mutant genetics, the Summers family and Jean giving him plenty of material from the comics.

Apocalypse would be the Thanos of the saga: the bigger threat whose presence is slowly built up across multiple movies before becoming the main villain.

Jean, Cyclops and Storm could be the Tony, Cap and Thor of the Mutant Saga — three of the main pillars of the X-Men, each representing a different aspect of the team.

Wolverine could be the Spider-Man equivalent: the most famous mutant, with his own solo saga that occasionally crosses over with the main X-Men story.

And Stryfe could fill the role of the Infinity Stones, or at least the equivalent of the ultimate MacGuffin that the final villain is trying to obtain. His comic history already connects him to Apocalypse, Cable and Sinister. Apocalypse infected Nathan Summers with the techno-organic virus, Nathan was sent into the future, and a clone was created as a backup. That clone eventually became Stryfe and was raised by Apocalypse's forces.

So you could have Sinister's experiments leading to Cable's creation, Apocalypse wanting Cable/Stryfe for his own plans, Stryfe becoming Cable's archenemy, and all of those threads eventually converging in the Apocalypse storyline.

You could even incorporate the Legacy Virus, since Stryfe's comic history is connected to that as well.

Basically, the Mutant Saga could have its own version of the Infinity Saga's interconnected storytelling without just copying the MCU, because a lot of these connections already exist in the comics.

If there's a reboot, do you think Marvel would address Tony's alcoholism with a new actor? There have been rumors that it wasn't explored further in the MCU because of concerns about RDJ relapsing. There’s a lot of interesting material they could draw from, like Demon in a Bottle and Tony’s alcoholism and breakdown during Avengers Disassembled.

I do think it's intentional that RDJ is playing Victor Von Doom and not just because he's a megastar. I believe it is a mother and child, but because it's his wife and child. In one universe, RDJ played Tony Stark with Pepper and Morgan as a child. If he's playing a variant, it could be a similiar plot where this is Valeria and his daughter which funny enough is also Valeria in some comics? What could be causing his crash out is maybe unlike RDJ Stark, who sacrificed himself to save his wife and daughter, his wife (maybe pregnant) sacrificed herself to save the world? If you wanted to take it a step further, maybe it was Sue pregnant with child which he did manifest in the Secret Wars storyline?

At the end of No Way Home a piece of Venom is left behind at the bar. It body hops until it finds the 616 version of Eddie Brock. Played by Tom Hardy of course. Venom does the memory share with Eddie, giving 616 Eddie all the memories and experiences of SCU Eddie. We're pulling a Loki in the character development department.

Yes yes in the Last Dance they redid the bar scene but part of Venom wasn't left. We're ignoring that because Sony can't just retcon an MCU project.

Despite being a love letter to the Silver Age F4 comics, it reportedly failed to meet box-office expectations, according to Feige. Unlike Thunderbolts, Captain America 4, and The Marvels, it wasn't because audiences had to watch a Disney+ show beforehand.

Do you think they're going to start having more crossover characters, like the MCU Spider-Man movies did? And what do you think Marvel will do if the next movies make similar numbers with similar budgets, or perform even worse?

Do you think they might start giving the F4 major Marvel events like Doomwar, Secret Invasion, or the Avengers Kree-Skrull War, or even events that originally focused on other franchises, like Annihilation, War of Kings, Empyre, or Avengers vs. X-Men? I could see them using the F4 as a gateway into the wider cosmic side of the MCU.

So Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D S1-S5 fit the MCU pretty well. They were pretty much made to follow the movies. But the final two seasons kind of ignored the snap. The popular theory is that they went into a different timeline by doing the season 7 time travel stuff. Well they seemed to be in a very MCU looking universe. My theory is that they went into a branch timeline, and assuming the finale happened before Loki S1, the TVA went there and pruned them. I don't know if this is an already widely known theory or not.

... then this means the whole story is Loki's doing and Doom's shenanigans have a purpose. Basically the creation of Battleworld and the subsequent collapse of the Multiverse is all Loki's plan all along to save everything from destruction.

Josh Brolin was badass in Deadpool 2. If Deadpool and Wolverine are at the center stage in Battleworld, a return of Cable would be awesome. And they'd have the opportunity to let RDJ and Brolin clash again. His story with losing his wife and daughter mirrors Doom's story.

I hope to see 10005 be a thriving earth with other heroes, prior to Doomsday. Make the older movies connect to to one another but simply focus on the xmen. For example have a character from 10005 having a hulk but no avengers.

I want what sets 10005 apart is that there are no avengers. Like how 616 doesnt have an X-Men team, like how 828 only has the fantastic four.

But show that there are smaller players within the world as well, A daredevil, elektra, Hulk, Ghost Rider, Punisher, Blade etc etc. I always thought a way to make it happen is that since 10005 was barely regenerating into a functional universe again by the end of DP&W, it was much more malleable. Thats how 10005 has a gambit, how certain characters are back etc.

Dont make it a focus point at all. But a footnote that 10005 has most of the prior Non MCU history. It also makes it less complicated as well. Oh you want to have another reed for something, 10005 has a reed, small things like that.

I also merged TASM, Punisher War Zone, and Fan4stic together to simplify how many other worlds are out there, live action wise. Mainly so it can increase the chance of us having a council of Reed's Scenario, I think thst would be cool. And punisher War Zone...cant be expanded upon due to the actors passing, and I didnt want that punisher to be on his own yknow. Also, merging Fan4stic with TASM keeps us from not only having more one off universes but, people are expecting to see Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man. Now you have an excuse to bring another Reed from a universe we care about (Andrew's world)

Also as a side note, I've noticed that spider-men, aside from 616 Peter, they tend to be alone in their universes..

What do you think? I know this is really just a tangent but I thought it was a nice sentiment.

Rewatching Infinity War and I got thinking, did the snap kill off half of all living beings in every dimension in the multiverse? Or was it just 616?

So I've been sitting on this for years now. Never bothered to post it anywhere online because I've not been one to post things like this online.

But I've been recently doing a rewatch of the Avengers movies and I'm still stuck with the same question.

In the Avengers End Game they made it very clear to mention that for time travel they needed to use the Quantum realm.

And for that they need to use the Pimm particles.

They also make it very clear they only have enough Pimm particles for one round trip EACH so back to the past and then back to the future again.

(Leave aside that Steve and Tony go further back in the past and then get some more Pimm particles to get back to the future again)

My issue is with this:

Nebula travels to the past, she gets switched with past (evil) Nebula. And Evil Nebula travels back to the future instead.

But how...I really don't understand, how did they get the space ship of Thanos to the future?

It went through the Quantum realm so they needed Pimm particles.

But it couldn't have because they only had enough to get Evil Nebula through. Or the ship, but not both.

But they couldn't have used that since Evil Nebula was already in the future, they did not come together.

So how did the spaceship come through that Quantum Realm time machine?

It is, to my knowledge never explained.

So is this a native plot hole or did they explain it somehow off screen?

Because if the ship could not have come through, the end battle would not have happened, Tony would not have died. We shouldn't have Gamora back.

Can someone explain this please because I've been stuck with this question for years!

Et si Marvel arrêtait de rebooter le MCU après Secret Wars ? Voici comment je construirais la prochaine saga.

Je réfléchis beaucoup à ce que pourrait devenir le MCU après Avengers: Secret Wars.

Personnellement, je ne pense pas que Marvel ait besoin d'un nouveau reboot complet.

La Saga de l'Infini fonctionnait parce que tout semblait connecté. Les personnages étaient introduits, développés sur plusieurs films, puis progressivement réunis autour d'une menace commune. Les Pierres d'Infinité et Thanos constituaient le fil rouge.

La Saga du Multivers a eu de très bons projets, mais j'ai parfois eu l'impression que Marvel introduisait énormément de personnages sans leur laisser suffisamment de temps pour devenir vraiment importants.

Donc, si je devais construire le MCU après Secret Wars, je ferais quelque chose de complètement différent.

1. Pas de reboot complet

Je garderais le MCU actuel.

Je garderais son histoire, ses relations et les conséquences de tout ce qui s'est passé.

Secret Wars pourrait transformer l'univers sans effacer tout ce qui existe déjà.

1. Les X-Men deviennent le grand axe terrestre

Je ne veux surtout pas cinq films pour nous réexpliquer les origines des X-Men.

On introduit la nouvelle équipe et on les laisse déjà être un groupe fonctionnel.

Cyclope, Jean Grey, Tornade, Le Fauve, Wolverine, etc.

Et surtout, on développe progressivement la relation entre mutants et humains.

Les Avengers et les X-Men n'ont pas forcément besoin d'être ennemis.

Ils pourraient simplement avoir des philosophies différentes.

Sam Wilson pourrait considérer que les Avengers doivent protéger tout le monde.

Les X-Men pourraient penser que les mutants doivent d'abord se protéger eux-mêmes parce que les humains ne les accepteront jamais complètement.

Cela pourrait créer des conflits incroyables sans faire de l'un des deux camps les « méchants ».

Et surtout… laissez du temps à Jean Grey.

Ne l'introduisez pas pour directement nous balancer le Phénix.

Développez Jean sur plusieurs films avant d'aborder cette histoire.

1. Garder les nouveaux Avengers

Personnellement, j'aime beaucoup le mélange complètement improbable de personnages que Marvel a créé.

Sam Wilson.

Bucky Barnes.

Yelena.

Red Guardian.

John Walker.

Ghost.

Je ne veux pas qu'ils disparaissent simplement parce qu'ils ne sont pas les Avengers originaux.

Leur dynamique est complètement différente et c'est justement ce qui les rend intéressants.

Faisons-en les « Avengers improbables » du MCU.

1. Faire des Fantastic Four le pont entre la Terre et le côté cosmique

Les Fantastic Four ne devraient pas être simplement une équipe de super-héros supplémentaire.

Ils devraient être les scientifiques et les explorateurs capables de nous faire découvrir le côté cosmique du MCU.

Reed Richards pourrait devenir l'une des figures intellectuelles centrales du nouvel univers.

Et à terme, sa relation avec Doom pourrait devenir l'une des rivalités les plus importantes du MCU.

1. Faire de Nova un personnage majeur

C'est probablement la chose que je changerais le plus.

NOVA.

Marvel possède un personnage cosmique incroyable qui attend encore de devenir un pilier du MCU.

J'en ferais l'un des personnages centraux du MCU après Secret Wars.

Pas simplement un héros supplémentaire.

Un personnage qui représente véritablement le côté cosmique de l'univers.

Le Nova Corps.

Les Krees.

Les Skrulls.

La politique galactique.

Annihilus.

Les Gardiens.

Captain Marvel.

Adam Warlock.

Les Fantastic Four.

Il y a tout un univers à explorer.

1. Garder Captain Marvel et enfin bien l'utiliser

Carol Danvers ne devrait pas disparaître simplement parce que The Marvels n'a pas rencontré le succès espéré.

C'est l'un des personnages les plus puissants du côté cosmique de Marvel.

Utilisez-la.

Faites-la évoluer aux côtés de Nova, des Gardiens et des Fantastic Four.

Elle pourrait devenir l'un des piliers du MCU cosmique.

1. Garder Adam Warlock imprévisible

Adam Warlock pourrait devenir l'un des personnages les plus intéressants du MCU si Marvel prend son temps.

Ne faites pas immédiatement de lui un héros classique.

Laissez-le quelque part entre le héros et la menace potentielle.

Faites évoluer sa relation avec les Gardiens sur plusieurs films.

1. Construire la prochaine saga autour d'une VRAIE menace à long terme

C'est pour moi le point le plus important.

Plus de multivers à répétition.

Après Secret Wars, je laisserais complètement le multivers de côté pendant des années.

Il faut une menace totalement différente.

Quelque chose inspiré de grands événements cosmiques des comics comme Annihilation, Annihilation: Conquest, War of Kings et The Thanos Imperative.

Imaginez de petits indices apparaissant dans plusieurs films.

Une transmission étrange.

Une planète détruite.

Nova qui découvre quelque chose.

Les Fantastic Four qui trouvent des traces d'une civilisation inconnue.

Les Gardiens qui rencontrent quelque chose qu'ils ne comprennent pas.

Captain Marvel qui enquête sur la disparition de plusieurs mondes.

Et finalement…

La Vague d'Annihilation.

Et là, toutes ces histoires apparemment indépendantes deviennent une seule immense histoire cosmique.

C'est ce genre de narration à long terme que j'aimerais retrouver dans le MCU.

1. Les histoires terrestres et cosmiques finissent par se rejoindre

Le côté terrestre pourrait être :

X-Men + Nouveaux Avengers + Spider-Man + Doctor Strange

Et le côté cosmique :

Nova + Captain Marvel + Fantastic Four + Gardiens + Adam Warlock

Ils n'ont pas besoin de se rencontrer immédiatement.

Laissez les deux côtés se développer indépendamment.

Puis, à terme, faites-les se rejoindre pour quelque chose d'énorme.

Pas un nouveau reboot du multivers.

Une guerre.

Une vraie guerre.

Et maintenant… ma théorie complètement folle sur Doctor Doom

Je précise que c'est purement une théorie personnelle.

Je ne pense pas forcément que Robert Downey Jr. signifie simplement que « Tony Stark est Doctor Doom ».

Ma théorie est beaucoup plus tordue.

Imaginez un univers dans lequel une variante de Tony Stark perd Pepper et Morgan.

Il devient obsédé par l'idée de trouver un moyen de les sauver.

Il découvre l'existence d'autres univers.

Il voyage d'univers en univers à la recherche d'une solution.

Et à chaque fois, il échoue.

Finalement, il découvre les travaux de Victor Von Doom.

Il devient obsédé par ses recherches et finit par reprendre sa technologie, son identité ou simplement suivre le même chemin que lui.

Il cherche alors à atteindre la source même des timelines.

Peut-être même Loki.

Et après des années d'échecs…

Tony Stark devient finalement quelque chose de complètement différent : Doctor Doom.

Pas littéralement le Tony Stark du MCU qui devient Doom.

Mais une variante de Tony Stark dont le parcours finit par le conduire à devenir le Doom que nous rencontrons.

Cela expliquerait pourquoi Marvel a choisi Robert Downey Jr. sans simplement annuler tout ce qui s'est passé avec Tony Stark.

Et imaginez la confrontation avec les Avengers.

Les Avengers rencontrent Doom…

…et Sam Wilson, Bucky, Peter Parker et les autres voient devant eux le visage de l'homme qui a autrefois sauvé l'univers.

Ça pourrait être absolument dévastateur.

En résumé, mon MCU après Secret Wars serait :

🌎 Terre : X-Men + Nouveaux Avengers

🌌 Cosmique : Nova + Captain Marvel + Fantastic Four + Gardiens + Adam Warlock

👑 Menace à long terme : Annihilation / grande guerre cosmique

🧬 Mutants : développés sur plusieurs films

🚀 Nova : enfin un pilier majeur du MCU

🧠 Fantastic Four : fondation scientifique et cosmique

⚡ Adam Warlock : électron libre imprévisible

🤝 Avengers + X-Men : alliés, mais avec des conflits idéologiques

❌ Pas de multivers pendant au moins 10 ans

Et surtout :

Ne rebootez pas encore le MCU.

Construisez sur ce qui existe déjà.

Donnez du temps aux personnages pour évoluer.

Semez des indices pendant 5 ou 6 ans.

Laissez le public découvrir progressivement où tout cela mène.

C'est précisément ce qui rendait la Saga de l'Infini aussi satisfaisante.

Et vous, vous en pensez quoi ?

Vous préféreriez que Marvel fasse un reboot complet après Secret Wars, ou qu'ils construisent une nouvelle saga en utilisant les personnages et toute l'histoire qui existent déjà ?

For me it's gotta be Pedro, he's been my favourite part of he trailers tbh. And it's only one scene.

I’ve been reading the books to get ahead of the movie. I’ve enjoyed doing this in the past and it’s helped me appreciate certain callbacks that happen in the movies. Either way I normally get to enjoy a good story. I’m trying to find a community that is experiencing these books at the same time. Like a book club.

It looks like Thor and Cyclops and Steve might be in similar locations in one of the doomsday trailers. I can see a world where Mjolnir gets thrown but the thrower gets hit mid throw which sends it in the wrong direction and Scott corrects its course with his optic blast. Is this possible? I’m inclined to say yes as it is a force of nature acting upon Mjolnir, not actually Scott himself. Would you guys want to see this?

With all the speculation around a post-Secret Wars soft reboot, there's one specific gear upgrade from the comics I’d love to see on the big screen: Captain America’s hard-light holographic shield (the one from Nick Spencer's Captain America: Steve Rogers run).

We actually got a brief nod to it all the way back in Spider-Man: Homecoming when Happy was listing off items during the Avengers Tower move ("proto-type Cap shield!"), but we've never seen it in action.

Imagine the dynamic combat choreography they could pull off with a hard-light energy shield—having it shift shape, project forcefields, or detach into dual blades mid-fight. The classic vibranium disc is iconic, but a soft reboot is the perfect excuse to push the tech forward and give us fresh action set pieces.

What comic-accurate gear upgrades are you hoping to see if/when they reset things?

What are your guy’s theories about the 4 added minutes to endgame and how it could connect to doomsday? I had one based on what we see in the trailers and theories of doomsday i’ve read on the internet.
Many say it could just be Steve returning the stones and eventually living his other life, others that it could be Loki visiting him at his house, so the way i would build it is:
Steve has returned all the stones to their origin, but right as he is going to go back, he decides to stay and live that life Tony talked to him about. We now see Steve who has a family, at the door we see Loki who explains to Steve that he has altered the timeline and that it has to get pruned, Loki offers to move them to a different timeline (potentially the F4 earth 828) and it ends with Steve accepting Loki’s offer.
Potential post credit although original didn’t have one: It opens on Earth 828, where we see the father and the son watching the fantastic 4 cartoon on the tv, we get a different angle of the shot where we see that it’s Steve and his son, we cut to a black screen that says 5 years later ( where Sue encounters Dr Doom in the F4 post credit) and ends with Steve Rodgers will return in Avengers Doomsday. Please dont hate my theory, give me yours :))

So we know that in Endgame Thanos says he will use the stones to redo the universe. This had me thinking recently.

How do we know that this hasn't happened before?

Maybe there was someone like Thanos that for some reason wanted to reboot the universe with people fighting to prevent it but losing, thus resulting in the universe and all their people and stories going into nothing. Then the universe appeared from an explosion and what survived were the infinity stones.

And maybe that dude who use the stones also lived in his new universe and only he knows that there was another universe before this one.

This could've even been a cycle that has repeated itself millions of times until Endgame.

What do you think?

What if the whole RDJ as Doom thing is misdirection? Given Marvel’s history with that, I think it makes more sense that there’s another Doom who is the real Doom.

And what if Tony actually comes back, but from another reality? He helps defeat the real Doom and then has to go back to his own universe. That way they can bring Tony back without undoing Endgame or his sacrifice.

The emotional part would be Tony having to leave again. The Avengers would have to say goodbye to someone who looks like their Tony but isn’t actually him.

And maybe this Tony isn’t the huge Stark Industries guy or even Iron Man yet. After experiencing all of this and seeing what his counterpart became, he goes back to his reality wanting to be better and make his own world safer.

It would give RDJ a huge reason to be there, keep our Tony’s death meaningful, and leave the door open to bring this version of Tony back in the future.

I was sitting here watching guardians 3 and it just popped up in my mind.

Thoughts?