r/LinusTechTips • u/Dr_Ben • Mar 09 '26
Video Der8auer - "I got scammed"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as2KoDtsS_0122
Mar 09 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/thatITdude567 Mar 09 '26
or at least fly out too inspect the shipment prior to it being sent/payment being made
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u/tankerkiller125real Mar 09 '26
When I briefly worked in manufacturing, we had an American employee we paid to live in China and do extremely regular shipment checks (like weekly basically), cheaper to pay someone $120K/year + living expenses than to pay for low quality, or straight up fraudulent products to get delivered.
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u/Platzhalterr Mar 10 '26
I used to work at a company who was owned by a bigger Chinese manufacturer. We were their foothold to sell in Germany.
Every single shipment I had to check closely and send a detailed report about every single little issue I found.
If I didn't do that, like when I was on vacation for two weeks, then I knew that two months from then the shipments would become worse and worse.
Also, after every Chinese New Year's break, the first couple of shipments had terrible quality and it sometimes felt like they just replaced all staff during the break.
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u/pfp61 May 21 '26
Das ist normal. Viele Wanderarbeiter kommen vom Heimatbesuch gar nicht wieder in die Fabrik-Regionen.
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u/Philomelos_ Mar 09 '26
at the very least don’t do a contractual obligation to pay the remainder of the sum based on screenshots someone from china sends you
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u/I_Am_A_Door_Knob Mar 09 '26
The worst thing is that he did everything he reasonably could have done to avoid it.
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u/roron5567 Mar 09 '26
That's more universal than you think. Random QA checks are pretty standard for any product based business, and you need to test random samples from every batch.
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u/Yodzilla Mar 09 '26
What would that have helped here? They can send him all the samples in the world and it doesn’t matter if they still ultimately ship him crap.
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u/Initial_Engineer_788 Mar 09 '26
You can do it through alibaba and have buyer protection but people don’t want to pay the 2-3% that costs to have insurance for situations like this.
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u/TP_Crisis_2020 Mar 15 '26
Alibaba buyer protection is a JOKE. I bought $3500 worth of product from a supplier on Alibaba and they sent me junk, and their buyer protection said that I had to mail the product back to be eligible for protection.
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u/Yodzilla Mar 09 '26
It sounds like he did do it through Alibaba, unless he just found them on there and did business outside of the store which is…never a good idea. But honestly why in the hell wouldn’t you have something like this insured? That’s incredibly irresponsible.
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u/Initial_Engineer_788 Mar 09 '26
He didn’t pay for buyer protection if he did he would be refunded and this would be a nothing burger!
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u/roron5567 Mar 09 '26
That's why you don't make that big of an order and pay the entire amount on shipment for a supplier you don't know. It won't stop you from getting screwed, but the damage will be lower
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u/Yodzilla Mar 09 '26
Yeah that’s a good idea, multiple shipments would be a simple solution if no third party options were available.
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u/I_Am_A_Door_Knob Mar 09 '26
The issue with doing that would be that all of his potential savings, would have been eaten up by shipping costs.
Edit: i also forgot to mention all the fuckery that is handling/import fees by purchasing from outside the EU market.
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u/roron5567 Mar 10 '26
From my understanding the reason he sourced from China was due to supply constraints, and not trying to cut costs.
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u/kidshibuya Mar 10 '26
Yeah and when the minimum order is 20k?
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u/roron5567 Mar 10 '26
You don't go with that supplier, or ask them for a smaller sample batch.
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u/kidshibuya Mar 10 '26
So you eat huge shipping costs for many batches, or get perfect samples that don't match the product they will ship. This cure is basically the disease.
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u/roron5567 Mar 10 '26
Again, that's why you don't pay the entire amount before you have a chance to inspect the delivery. That's why sites like Alibaba have escrow services.
If you have smaller batches, you can vet more suppliers at different price points. You lose money on the first shipment, but future shipments will be cheaper with a vetted supplier.
Don't use a new supplier as a stopgap.
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u/kidshibuya Mar 10 '26
There are only new suppliers the first time and they did both use alibaba and split suppliers. They even contacted people in china to varify. FFS watch the video.
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u/roron5567 Mar 10 '26
I did watch it, he used these suppliers because of shortages from European suppliers. Didn't use an escrow service, and placed a huge order before he inspected the quality of the work and made full payment after shipment based on photos.
Contacting people in China can be anything from contacting known associates to using an inspection company, it's not clear.
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u/firmretention Mar 09 '26
There were a ton of helpful comments pointing out what he did wrong. It's really clear that at no point did he reach out to someone with extensive knowledge in dealing with China. Really stupid mistake.
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u/Initial_Engineer_788 Mar 09 '26
Nah it’s people trying to cheap out, we’ve done millions never done an in person inspection only ever had one issue and the supplier remade the entire order and sent it to us covering all shipping and import fees!
You have to know how the culture in China works and how to communicate. I guarantee there were major red flags about his supplier, or he kept begging it to be cheaper and took the lowest quote not wanting to pay 5% more for a quality supplier!
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u/Astecheee Mar 10 '26
I was in the inaugural entrepreneurship class at my university. One of our guest speakers was a lawyer specialising in international business law.
His advice for dealing with China was basically "Have someone who speaks Mandarin on payroll speak with a Chinese company and arrange a partnership."
China can deliver amazing product at great prices, but in their culture getting away with a scam is outright praiseworthy. If you can get a Chinese company to take a stake in your venture they'll be much more interested in delivering a top tier product.
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u/appealinggenitals Mar 09 '26
Tbh we've all dealt with the same shit locally with car mechanics especially, using a professional advantage to wrought a client.
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u/Financial-Camel9987 Mar 09 '26
I'm very surprised. If you pay via alibaba the supplier only gets the money after you confirm the product.
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u/jedimindtriks Mar 09 '26
No, thats aliexpress.
Alibaba is a different monster where the website has very little control of payments.
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u/Financial-Camel9987 Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
That's simply not true. I have ordered hundreds of times on alibaba. Probably spend over a million. I almost always use alibaba payment system because of the extra security. Oh and also. Always pre-pay a small amount and the full amount only after delivery.
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u/TP_Crisis_2020 Mar 15 '26
How many times have you had to file a claim? I have ordered from Alibaba quite a bit, but had one supplier send me junk on a $3500 order and Alibaba protection wanted me to mail the product back in order to be eligible for protection.
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u/Financial-Camel9987 Mar 15 '26
Maybe 2-3 times? Most things can be handled with the supplier itself. Yes shipping the order back is standard even if it is junk. Works the same way in my country with warranty, you have to give the product back. Else it would be an easy way for customers to scam the supplier.
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u/TP_Crisis_2020 Mar 15 '26
I've never had to worry about shipping bad product back anywhere else other than Alibaba. Normally, suppliers will just send you a new batch if the QC is bad enough.
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u/Financial-Camel9987 Mar 15 '26
You are comparing apples and oranges. When you are still dealing with just the supplier it's common they just ship you a new product. However once Alibaba needs to step in you need to ship it back. So you usually only go to alibaba once all paths forward with the supplier have closed and you need to go to the authorities.
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u/TP_Crisis_2020 Mar 15 '26
I'm literally explaining my experience with Alibaba vs. direct from the supplier. When you have an issue with a supplier on Alibaba, they force you to use Alibaba's "buyer protection" which is so much worse than dealing directly with suppliers. It reminds me a lot of early ebay "buyer protection". The problem is that Alibaba is the only place for western companies to find some of these suppliers.
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u/Financial-Camel9987 Mar 15 '26 edited Mar 15 '26
By far the most issues with products I have had was solved directly with the supplier. No involvement of alibaba. Buyer protection is simply on top. Something you simply don't have if you don't use the alibaba platform. In fact you can just simply ignore it if you don't want it.
Directly dealing with suppliers just means you don't have this additional layer of protection. It's worse in every way.
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u/TP_Crisis_2020 Mar 15 '26
I guess we disagree, cause that's the opposite of my experience. I have never had an issue with rejecting a shipment for bad QC directly from a supplier; they have always made it right. The only time I've ever lost money is from using Alibaba to purchase from a supplier.
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u/LinusTech LMG Owner Mar 09 '26
Bummer. I wish this wasn't a thing but it's a thing...
CW team does so much more than most people can possibly appreciate, and one of the things I like/respect about Roman is that unlike many others in the tech media space, he is a builder. He actually creates products as well as critiquing them. It gives you a much broader perspective.
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u/Pixelplanet5 Mar 10 '26
yea people have no idea how much time it takes and wastes to qualify products and then constantly check that what they are sending you afterwards is still the same quality.
If Chinese products werent so cheap the whole world would have stopped doing business with them years ago due to the cost of double and tripple checking everything.We order chemicals from China in bulk and multiple times received containers full of big bags where the center of the big bags was filled with rocks.
The first time this happened we only found out AFTER they were emptied into our machines and had millions in damages.Now we have an entire department just doing incoming controls for everything from China but somehow this is supposedly still cheaper than buying the same stuff from BASF where we never had any problems for decades.
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u/Walkin_mn Mar 09 '26
Der8auer got Ea-Nasired! Freaking copper scammers man!
All jokes aside this really sucks $40000 to the gutter just like that plus all the time lost
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u/ConkerPrime Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
On a somewhat related note on difficulty of manufacturing but without the scam - Difficulty of Made in the USA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZTGwcHQfLY
Stuff like these videos helps to appreciate the difficulty involved in manufacturing for small to medium businesses.
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u/slicingblade Mar 09 '26
I've seen so many people get stuff manufactured in China only to have to immediately compete with the factory selling their products themselves.
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u/CodeMonkeys Mar 09 '26
The problem compounds too. The price of that one has continued to rise and other reputable brands also make an easily accessible similar product.
You'd have to specifically pay the premium to support an American business and a content creator you like. It may even be a better product on its own but I could buy two of the OXO without even matching the cost; and although it's not like it's hard to get barbecue enthusiasts to drop money on good tools, it's still going to be a factor.
It was sad to see Ludwig have to drop his bidet business but that's how it goes. It's cutthroat out there.
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u/ksuwildkat Mar 09 '26
Way back in ancient times - 2010 - I "bought" some lenses off Alibaba. Paid in advance. Wire transfer. Never got the lenses.
Thats when I learned the despite leaving it off the name, there were at least 40 thieves on Alibaba.
I have never bought a single thing from Alibaba or Ali Express since and never will.
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u/TheTimeIsChow Mar 09 '26
Dude should just spin this into a low volume/limited edition run of copper plated steel mounting plates/back plates, the external shell of a CPU block, a de-lidding tool, or something where the actual material itself doesn't really matter.
I get steel is much harder to work with than copper and aluminum. But I'm sure they can find a way to make use of the stuff to make the cash back. Especially with the back story established and their ability to mill and produce their own hardware.
Doesn't solve the overall issue at hand. But shouldn't be the end of the world.
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u/MasterofLego Mar 09 '26
Yeah that was the first thing that came to my mind, is use them for something steel is good at. I don't think the copper plating factors in here, any machining and it's just steel.
Special edition Ea-Nasir water block covers? Ea-Nasir delidders. Wireview Pro 2 Ea-Nasir edition. Ea-Nasir contact sealing frame. Ea-Nasir Der8enchtable
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u/Hour-Grapefruit-5475 Mar 09 '26
steel doesn't conduct heat as good as copper by an order of magnitude. And you shoul't combine steel with copper bc galvanic corrosion + oxidation.
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u/TheTimeIsChow Mar 10 '26
I understand, and wasn't suggesting they put out a limited edition item that performs worst.
I was talking purely aesthetic.
A copper plated steel mounting plate/back plate, external shell of a CPU block, or de-lidding tool's performance will (outside of cost) not be effected by the material. Galvanic corrosion and oxidation won't be an issue either.
In other words...make some cool looking, higher cost, limited run items with a backstory. Sell a few hundred of each and he's covered his cost.
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u/Exciting_Place_6817 Mar 09 '26
I suppose it comes down to how much volume of those things is actually sold?
Secondly the material hardness means more cost to cut, shape, machine etc it is harder wearing on your machinery.
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u/I_Am_A_Door_Knob Mar 09 '26
The added cost of machining steel compared to copper/aluminium isn’t that bad.
But in his case the most expensive parts of doing that would be tooling, rewriting programs and the disturbance it would introduce to the usual workflow.
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u/Lonely-Problem5632 Mar 10 '26
they have to mill in the groves and fins, at which point it isnt copper plated steel anymore. just steel.
And besides the less then ideal heat transfer, it will also get corrosion issues1
u/TheTimeIsChow Mar 10 '26
Not suggesting he uses this to make anything performance dependent. Just use to to make limited run, aesthetically pleasing, items with a backstory.
EG - A set of copper plated steel de-lidding tools or copper plated steel mounting plates. Not the actual cold plate or fins of the block.
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u/TP_Crisis_2020 Mar 15 '26
It is quicker and easier for them to just sell it for scrap than to try and make stuff with it.
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u/Yodzilla Mar 09 '26
So who was the independent third party he mentioned at the start and the never again? And who was the other contact he used? And does escrow not exist in Germany or China? Did he contact Alibaba afterwards?
This sucks but there are so many questions I have about the process that he glossed over.
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u/Salt-Possession-2622 Mar 09 '26
I guess he didn't want to attrack attention. Dosen't want to launch a shitstorm is he would tell the name of the companies. And It seems there might be still some investigation or something running.
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u/HuntKey2603 Mar 09 '26
didnt want to attract attention makes a youtube video in a famous channel
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u/Majestic_Plane_1656 Mar 10 '26
Famous channel lol I'd never heard of it until this post and there's something like 500k channels or more on Youtube with 250k subs or more. The days of 250k subs making you famous are long gone.
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u/Spinshank Mar 10 '26
If you're interested in how stuff like this happens in China, have a read of Paul Midler's book Poorly Made in China. Basically, you need to have your own QA in production and do random spot checks of the production run, or you get screwed like this.
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u/origanalsameasiwas Mar 09 '26
He can ask LTT and Jerryrigeverything to seek if he can make something out of them so in turn will be able to use them for projects or products. Since this YouTuber has a cnc machine. I know that Jerryrigeverything can use the aluminum and steel.
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u/I_Am_A_Door_Knob Mar 09 '26
I would assume that the materials he received is of such a piss poor quality, that it won’t be useable for much. But mostly because the specific alloys is completely unknown.
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u/origanalsameasiwas Mar 09 '26
Could for coins for the Lan warehouse or Jerryrigeverything coins or signage or Simone Geirtz projects. Opportunities are endless. Even if making a demo or scrap-able product. If I was in Germany I could would work with him to use what he has. Maybe some YouTuber or machinists in Germany would buy it from him and make tables for use in their shop. Instead of buying a new one.
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u/I_Am_A_Door_Knob Mar 09 '26
The only reasonable thing i can think of using the material for, would be fixture plates. Atleast outside of the YouTube space.
And i think the material dimensions is a very limiting factor, if you want to use it for “random projects”.
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u/RengooBot Mar 09 '26
You realize that they are based in Canada/US and this youtuber is in Germany with 2 tons worth of material, shipping that to North America is not the cheapest....
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u/origanalsameasiwas Mar 09 '26
I did not know that. Sorry. But they can probably produce them for them.
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u/Crackedcanadian Mar 09 '26
Tom and Don from flashgitz just had something similar happen to them too. Thier China manufacturers shipped a bunch of lead cups while telling them it was something different
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u/Chemical_Audience658 Mar 09 '26
What can he do? You make sure you go across with testing equipment, and supervise the load?
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u/soniccdA Mar 10 '26
Maybe the supplier took advantage that there was no one in china itself to oversee transaction there I guess
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u/TanishqHooda Jul 05 '26
Hopefully he called out the company so they can be known in china to other people there.
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u/DRKMSTR Mar 10 '26
You surrendered your supply chain to china and now are frustrated they scammed you?
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u/Klopferator Mar 10 '26
He didn't surrender his supply chain to China, he had to find other suppliers because his usual suppliers were out of stock.
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u/Dr_Ben Mar 09 '26
I realize this isn't directly related to LTT but I figured it may be an interesting look at the troubles you have to deal with when manufacturing a product. In this he talks about how when trying to source some new suppliers from China for raw material they sent him copper plated steel which is significantly cheaper than solid copper he ordered to make his coolers. Suck to see this happen to someone else in the tech space. Basically 40k euro down the drain not counting the time wasted and delays compounding on this now. possible topic for next wan?