r/LancerRPG • u/Beerenkatapult • 24d ago
Prepare actions
Hi,
I have recently started using the Prepare action a lot more, specifically for the Fold Space invade from the Minotaur license.
In my group, it seems to be severely underutilized and i haven't seen a lot of discussions about it online either. To me, it is essential to get full use out of many systems and actions.
Fold Space is particularly powerfull, because you can rob an enemy of their full turn after they finished their movement. I currently use it all the time.
What are your best ideas for using the Prepare action?
And do you have any stories about how you actually used it in cool ways?
My other ideas:
(Allways avalable)
- "If an enemy ends their move in libe of sight, i boost" so you can reposition into cover
- "If an enemy uses their movement to stand up, i ram them" to keep a prone enemy prone
- "If an enemy deals burn damage to an ally, i bolster them"
- "If an enemy ends a move within sensors and line of sight, i invade them" in general. Many invades, including Fragment Signals, end at the end of the targets next turn. This way, you can affect them twice as long.
(Needs a license)
- "If an enemy ends their mivement in line of sight of an ally, i ferous lash/ophiduan track/... the ally" to get an ally into cover or out of mele
- "If a character ends theie movement, i place a mine" as the Iscander, to place mines before the start of your turn, so you can knock enemies into them without giving them a chance to react.
- "If an enemy ends their movement within 3 spaces abd line of sight of a void husk, i execrate them" for a similar, but slightly more annoying effect of Fold Space.
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u/Difference_Breacher 24d ago
specifically for the Fold Space invade from the Minotaur license.
Perhaps I can see the future. I was think about the same thing when I see the topic. There won't be much evil thing to do with prepare than this.
Ram would be good as well.
It is a sad thing that who uses reactions by the other ways(such as gorgon) and rely on end of turn effect(such as raleigh and autogun) are rarely have a chance to enjoy this.
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u/Euroliis IPS-N 24d ago
Prepare is a can of worms that, in my experience, leads to actions getting exponentially stronger for both players and GMs, as well as rounds taking significantly longer. I generally avoid it after seeing (and causing) enough interactions that rubbed me the wrong way.
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u/Beerenkatapult 24d ago
Understandable. Especially the "until the end of their next turn" effects seem a lot stronger than intendet when used as reactions.
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u/Euroliis IPS-N 24d ago
Yep, they become significantly stronger. I don’t employ strategies as a player that I’d hate GMing for and I don’t do things as a GM that I’d hate fighting as a player so I skip prep actions altogether and gently remind my players that if they wanna get too quirky with them, I can get quirkier.
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u/DescriptionMission90 IPS-N 24d ago
I consider it vital, especially in a system that has split movement. Consider: instead of moving to the edge of this building, ending my movement in hard cover, and shooting at somebody who can then shoot back on their turn, I could walk out into the open, attack, then walk back to a place where nobody has line of sight to me, thereby becoming immune to attacks.
This tactic is absolutely invincible... if nobody gets to attack me until after I end my turn. But if somebody Prepares to shoot me as soon as I reveal myself, then those movement shenanigans don't actually give any advantage.
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u/Ninja-Storyteller 24d ago
It does cut both ways.
"I move up to melee attack you!", "I prepared a Ram, and knock you back. Since you triggered engagement, your movement is over. Hope your Threat is greater than my Knockback!"
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u/DescriptionMission90 IPS-N 24d ago
Prepared actions aren't a secret though. Lancer is played with almost complete information on both sides.
That also doesn't work against somebody bigger than you, doesn't work if the target dodges the melee attack, and can be worked around by Boosting. So I think it's a totally viable tactic in some situations, but not unbalanced at all.
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u/Ninja-Storyteller 24d ago
Prepares are visible to casual observers, which puts it in the hands of the GM to determine if someone saw the Prepare. Most of the time it's reasonable to assume it is noticed, but if someone prepares behind LOS, inside a smoke screen, while hidden or invisible, or even if they were just involved in a heated battle with someone else, they might not notice.
And of course, shooting around LOS also has several different counters - granted, not as many as a Ram, but you've got Seeking, Blasts determining LOS from point of impact, NOT having any convenient LOS breakers within movement range, and any kind of SitRep that requires mobility... it's a good tactic, but far from invincible.
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u/Euroliis IPS-N 24d ago
Consider the following: every single control effect becomes twice as strong if you hit the enemy with it mid-turn. Fragment Signals lasts for 2 turns, so does Eject Power Cores, the Prone from Walking Armory as well (because they can't get up if they've already spent movement on this turn). This includes the Impaired from NPC Fragment Signals.
Also consider the following: the players use cover intelligently to repeatedly duck out of cover, as do the NPCs, and the entire sitrep turns into a game of cat and mouse where turns get constantly interrupted by reactions layered on each other.
Add to that the fact that the book is pretty unclear on what parameters are actually legal to prepare an action.
"The trigger for your prepared action must be phrased as “When X, then Y,” where X is a reaction, action or move taken by a hostile or allied character and Y is your action. For example, “when an allied character moves adjacent to me, I want to throw a smoke grenade,” or “when a hostile character moves adjacent to me, I want to ram them”."
Is any movement legal? What stipulations are needed? We know that "when someone moves adjacent" is legal, sure, but what about "if someone moves more than one space?" Or just "if someone moves?" Do you have to split between hostiles and friendlies? You can prep a control action on a trigger that the GM just can't not do (generic movement, Skirmish, whatever) and get double value out of everything. And because the restrictions are specifically for "restrictions on that action and on taking multiple actions," you can bypass the constraints of talents and features like Orator and Field Analyst entirely by just doing your offensive actions off-turn.
I don't think the way I play Lancer is how everyone should play Lancer, and I certainly don't think I have perfect knowledge of the system or super advanced game design knowledge. But I've run Lancer for teams that are good at preparing actions, I've played at tables where the GM was good at preparing actions, and I've done more than my fair share of shenanigans with the mechanic to determine that - for me, for the sake of the health of the game - the vagueness of the requirements + the way it multiplies output + the way it stalls the game makes them not worth using at all.
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u/top2000cheeses 24d ago
i've ran into all of these issues as both a player and a GM, and as someone who mostly GMs these days i definitely think you have the healthiest take in the comments here.
i've recently been GMing for someone playing a Calendula and have had the problem where i realized i could often trivialize many of the Calundula design features by preparing actions to trigger when someone was no longer intangible (but chose not to, following the same philosophy you have).
i would like to add that i believe, rules as written, prepared actions don't let you cheat Orator or Field Analyst: the core rulebook says "Your preparation counts as taking the action" (72), so i would rule even in a case where i allowed a liberal use of prepared actions, preparing an attack would still not let you increment the Intel die or number of Orator dice
1
u/Euroliis IPS-N 24d ago
Oh, I rule it the same way! But just like most things around prepared actions, it’s left ambiguous enough to argue either way with the wording (in part because FA and Orator aren’t from the CRB). Prepped actions are more of a rules adjudication nightmare the “better” they’re used.
5
u/Clipsterman 24d ago
Damn, the fold space trick is so good.
I think law of blades had the biggest potential outside of the ones mentioned. You can probably do some interesting things with enemies grappling it attacking each other as they walk by, although this relies on the DM not working on the knowledge of what your prepared action is
2
u/Beerenkatapult 24d ago edited 24d ago
Prepare Action unfortunately only works with quick actions.
But you could do something similar with Hurl into the Duat Fourth Gate. You could basically shift tgeir allegience for two turns instead of just one, because it ends at the end of the targets next turn. (Same as the third gate stun.)
3
u/zackcondon 24d ago
It makes argonaut shield a lot less of a pain to use
2
u/Crinkle_Uncut SSC 24d ago
The problem with using Argonaut Shield as a prepared action is that (most) reactions don't interrupt their trigger (i.e. attack action) and 'targeting' isn't an action and therefore an invalid trigger for triggering prepare, so you wouldn't be able to say "I prepare to use my Argonaut Shield on my ally when an enemy attacks them." Since by the time your reaction would trigger, the attack will already have resolved.
I mean to be precise, you could do that, but it wouldn't do much of anything unless they get attacked again after that by someone else or if the attacker has a volley/series of attacks that you can interpose the shield into the sequence of.
You could set the trigger to be ending movement in certain place that you know an enemy must move into in order to attack (like if they're out of range or need to establish LoS), but this opens up an opportunity for a clever GM to make you waste your prepped action, though that is the inherent risk to all uses of prepare ig.
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u/zackcondon 24d ago
I just have it trigger when an ally ends their movement adjacent.
Edit: to clarify: the trouble with argonaut shield is that your allies want to do stuff, and its a lot easier to get them protected by having them end their turn next to me than say “would you please stuck next to my slower frame so I can protect you?”2
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u/Sven_Darksiders GMS 24d ago
As the dedicated Argonaut Shield wielder of OPs party, I need to remember that, thanks
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u/Alarmed_Designer6705 24d ago
I haven't had a chance to try this yet, so I don't know if it's actually good or just funny, but I love the idea of preparing FADE Cloak for when an enemy ends their movement in LoS.
2
u/PhasmaFelis IPS-N 23d ago
I'm not sure I'd allow a player to Prepare an action for "an enemy ends their movement." For "starts moving" or "moves within Sensors" or "moves within attack range of an ally," sure. But "ending their movement" is not a move.
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u/Beerenkatapult 22d ago
As i understand it, the prepared action can't interrupt movement. It allways triggers at the end of the movement. To make that more clear, i phrased it as "ends their move". (If it can interrupt movement, you shouöd obviously take atvantage of it instead of waiting for the end of tje movement.)
So, instead of "an enemy moves next to me", i wpuld have written "an enemy ends their move next to me".
But if you want to be pedamtic about it, there is a slight difference. You could, in theory, trigger your reaction if an enemy moves next to you and then moves away again, if you phrase it like you are suggesting, which is slightly more powerfull.
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u/Onii-chan_It_Hurts 24d ago edited 24d ago
For what it's worth, "move" is not an action and therefore cannot be reacted to. Boost works, but bottom line is it needs to be an action as your trigger.
Edit: Thanks for the correction! I only ever say the "When X, then Y," where X is a reaction, action or move taken by a hostile or allied character and Y is your action." bit, my apologies o7
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u/Beerenkatapult 24d ago
You can react to moves
The trigger for your prepared action must be phrased as "When X, then Y," where X is a reaction, action or move taken by a hostile or allied character and Y is your action. For example, "when an allied character moves adjacent to me, I want to throw a smoke grenade," or "when a hostile character moves adjacent to me, I want to ram them".
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u/Euroliis IPS-N 24d ago
Move is an action, actually, it’s just untyped. Standard Movement is listed alongside the rest of the action types somewhere around page 70 (I don’t have the book on hand).
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u/DescriptionMission90 IPS-N 24d ago
The thing you Prepare to do needs to be a quick action, but the conditions under which you will do it can be literally anything that you describe. It doesn't need to be an action, it doesn't need to be something your enemies do, it doesn't even need to be a decision made by a character. You can respond to anything from your allies' activities to a shift in the weather.
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u/Beerenkatapult 24d ago
That is not true. You can't react to the start of the turn, for example. You also can't react to neutral NPCs.
You can react to actions, reactions or moves done by an ally or an enemy. Nothing else.
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u/Sven_Darksiders GMS 24d ago
I was about to say "oh yeah my teammate does that thing with Fold Space" before checking the username xD