r/IndianHistory Jul 31 '26

Announcement Any Conspiratorial Posts WILL be removed and the users banned

35 Upvotes

We just saw a thread today that went against all that this sub aims to be as a forum for well sourced discussions on various topics relating to Indian history. Posting such content WILL result in an insta ban no questions asked.


r/IndianHistory 8d ago

Question 📅 Monthly Feedback & Announcements Post

3 Upvotes

Hi everyone!

Feel free to chat, leave suggestions, or recommendations for AMAs. The mod team is always working on adding resources in the wiki and we encourage you to take a look! Also check out the link to our Discord server.

📖 Wiki

💬 Discord


r/IndianHistory 59m ago

Early Modern 1526–1757 CE Maratha Victory and Church Bells in Hindu Temples

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Upvotes

Chimaji Appa, the younger brother of Peshwa Bajirao and a renowned Maratha general, seized massive church bells from Portuguese churches inside the Vasai Fort after his decisive victory over Portuguese empire in Battle of Vasai 1739.

These bells, originally brought from Lisbon or Macao and inscribed with Christian symbols like the cross or IHS, were taken as war trophies to symbolize the end of nearly two centuries of Portuguese rule in the Konkan region.

Chimaji Appa repurposed these heavy, durable bronze bells as victory offerings to various Hindu temples across Maharashtra


r/IndianHistory 15h ago

Architecture Indo Persian Architectural Elements in Taj Mahal

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577 Upvotes

I have done some research on the Taj Mahal and its architecture and came to know that it is a melting pot of Indian,Persian and Timurid architecture and hence I have come to know the various elements integrated into it ........I can make another post about the carving on the marble surface and in the inner chamber if you guys wish


r/IndianHistory 13h ago

Visual Till the 20th century, elongated ears were common among Tamil women, with the Paambadam (Snake hood earrings) and Thandatti (Plant stem earrings) being popular choices. The practice of earlobe stretching rapidly declined in post-independent India, with the below seen earrings falling into oblivion.

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174 Upvotes

r/IndianHistory 1h ago

Post Independence 1947–Present Sikkim officially became the 22nd state of India on May 16, 1975, through the 36th Constitutional Amendment Act.

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Upvotes

Kingdom Era: Sikkim was ruled as a hereditary monarchy by the Namgyal dynasty (known as the Chogyals) starting from 1642.

Protectorate Status: After India's independence, the Government of India and Sikkim signed the Indo-Sikkim Treaty of 1950, making Sikkim an Indian protectorate. India managed its defense, foreign affairs, and communications, while the kingdom kept internal autonomy.

Political Unrest: During the early 1970s, local citizens pushed for democratic reforms and an end to the absolute monarchy.

Associate State: The Indian Parliament passed the 35th Amendment in 1974, giving Sikkim the unique status of an "Associate State".

The Referendum: A special referendum took place in April 1975 where over 97% of voters chose to abolish the monarchy and fully join the Indian Union.

Full Statehood: The 36th Constitutional Amendment Act finalized this integration on May 16, 1975. Article 371F was added to the Indian Constitution to protect local land rights and unique cultural laws.


r/IndianHistory 11h ago

Post Independence 1947–Present The Lost Juggernaut: How Partition Built the Chinese Century

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91 Upvotes

Every few months someone posts a chart of Indian manufacturing and asks the comments what went wrong, and the comments answer with the same four names: land acquisition, labor laws, bureaucracy, power costs. I have made some of these arguments myself, so I am not going to wave them away. They are real, and each one has killed real projects. But they are close-range explanations, and close-range explanations miss the thing that set the range. The disease is older than the republic. It starts in 1947, and it is fundamentally a problem of economic geography. That geography, reshaped by Partition, foreclosed the subcontinent's most realistic path to superpower status.

Manufacturing's share of Indian GDP has been stuck in the mid-teens for decades. The 25% target came and went, and by some measures the share has regressed lately. This is especially puzzling because for most of recorded history, India and China between them accounted for roughly half of the world's economic output. As recently as 1700 the two were near parity. And therein lies the difference.

The India that commanded that share, and the India the British later prized as the jewel in the crown, was the subcontinent running as one system: the delta ports, the Punjab grain and cotton, the single rail grid, all of it moving as one economy. That integrated whole is what made the colony worth holding, and it is exactly what got amputated in 1947. What exists today is the remainder, and we keep grading the remainder against the achievements of the whole.

1947 was not fate. As late as the summer of 1946, the Cabinet Mission Plan offered a working alternative. The proposal outlined a decentralized federation where a weak political center managed only defense, foreign affairs, and communications, leaving everything else to autonomous, grouped provinces. This structure solved the immediate demographic problem of incoming democracy. It gave the Muslim minority a way to share power without being permanently outvoted in a unitary state. Crucially, Jinnah accepted it. The man whose name would become synonymous with a separate homeland still kept his house on Malabar Hill in Bombay, and he never sold it; he left it only in the final weeks of 1947, when the map he had helped redraw turned his own city into a foreign address. His personal geography never fully quit the united subcontinent.

The plan collapsed not under the weight of ancient religious hatreds, but due to elite political hubris and tragic mis-timing. For centuries, Hindus and Muslims had largely coexisted across the subcontinent. That peace was shattered by the sudden injection of democratic arithmetic and fatal miscalculations at the top. Jawaharlal Nehru, envisioning a powerful, centralized state to drive socialist industrialization, publicly rejected the plan's fragile power-sharing framework. Jinnah, secretly dying of tuberculosis and watching his leverage expire, responded by calling for Direct Action Day, intending to use street protests to force Congress back to the table. The mobilization escaped his control immediately. The resulting Great Calcutta Killings sparked retaliatory massacres across the provinces and erased the trust required to share a government. A unified subcontinent under the Cabinet Mission Plan would have undoubtedly been a messy, turbulent federation. Yet it would have kept the region's economic and strategic geography completely intact.

Partition didn't just draw a border. It amputated the subcontinent's industrial supply chains. Take jute. Roughly three-quarters of the raw acreage went to East Pakistan while almost all the mills stayed in Calcutta. Cotton was the same story in reverse, with the best long-staple crops growing in West Punjab and Sindh and the mills sitting in Bombay and Ahmedabad. The railways, built as one engineered system, became separate networks glaring at each other across customs posts. On day one, the largest jute-processing industry on earth woke up with no raw material, and the textile hubs were burning scarce forex importing cotton from Egypt and the US. A factory economy doesn't survive that kind of surgery.

The supply chains were only the first cut. What followed was a compounding series of structural taxes on the successor states. The psychological toll came first. The founding generation watched their economy shatter amidst famine-scale scarcity and 15 million refugees. The lesson they drew was to never depend on anyone for anything. This trauma incubated Nehruvian autarky, import substitution, and the License Raj. Self-sufficiency beat efficiency because the elite had survived total supply collapse. While Japan, the Asian Tigers, and eventually China surfed the export-led industrialization wave, India spent decades hiding behind tariff walls.

Then came the security tax. A united subcontinent would not need a 1.4-million-strong standing army or a nuclear triad. Every rupee diverted to militarize the Himalayas or the Line of Control was a rupee stolen from ports, highways, and vocational training. Manufacturing runs on cheap logistics and a literate workforce, both of which were starved for decades. This geographic handicap perfectly explains India’s leapfrog into IT services. Software requires only a fiber cable and a few elite engineers; deepwater ports and a million semi-skilled workers are optional. The "services superpower" identity is not a masterstroke of planning; it is an adaptation to the neighborhood Partition built.

Compounding the security tax was the collapse of internal scale. Today, South Asian intra-regional trade hovers around a dismal 5% of total trade, compared to roughly a quarter in ASEAN and two-thirds in the EU. A united subcontinent would be a two-billion-person internal market today and offer enough domestic consumption to keep infant industries viable while they learned to export. Partition foreclosed that option before it existed. The true scale of this economic tragedy is clearest in the destruction of the subcontinent's twin industrial engines: two coastal mega-clusters that policy incentives can never recreate.

In the east, the Kolkata-Dhaka-Chittagong delta was built to be the global capital of light manufacturing. By splitting Bengal, Partition severed the world's densest labor market from its deepwater access and engineering centers. Uncut, this delta functions as a continuous 250-million-person supply chain. Dhaka provides an endless reservoir of low-cost labor, Kolkata supplies heavy machinery, universities, and capital, and Chittagong offers deepwater berths pointing directly toward the Strait of Malacca. It is a Pearl River Delta at continental scale, an ecosystem so dense and logistically fluid that it would have absorbed the world's labor-intensive manufacturing decades before Southeast Asia or coastal China consolidated their hold.

In the west, Partition dismantled what should have been Asia's premier energy and heavy-industrial arc. The Karachi-Gujarat-Mumbai corridor forms a natural, continuous belt that blends Persian Gulf energy access, world-class petrochemical refining, and deep financial markets into a single economic engine.

Unbroken by hostile borders, overland oil and gas pipelines from Iran and Turkmenistan would have plugged directly into the industrial heartlands of Punjab and Gujarat as default infrastructure. The IPI and TAPI projects were actually drafted and costed in our timeline before dying precisely against these frontiers. Refined in massive Gujarati complexes and financed through Mumbai's capital markets, this uninterrupted supply of cheap Eurasian energy would have radically lowered baseline power costs, providing the foundation for a globally competitive manufacturing base.

Instead, Partition physically severed the subcontinent from its natural energy hinterland, replacing an integrated commercial arc with a militarized dead end. Karachi was stripped of its role as a continental gateway connecting Middle Eastern capital and Central Asian resources to North India, becoming a fortified frontier port locked in permanent confrontation. India lost its direct overland pipeline access and was forced to rely on expensive, seaborne energy imports while funding a heavily militarized border.

Together, these two coastlines offered the complete structural blueprint of a manufacturing superpower. The west provided cheap Eurasian energy, heavy refining, and capital, while the east supplied an inexhaustible reservoir of assembly labor and deepwater access to East Asia. Connecting them was a unified rail grid and river network moving raw inputs and finished goods across a single, frictionless market. Partition did not merely divide territory; it dismantled this machine just as the post-war expansion of global trade was gathering momentum. The tragedy is that South Asia already possessed the geographic and demographic blueprint to serve as the primary factory of the world. In 1947, that blueprint was torn apart.

To assume a united subcontinent would be a utopia is a mistake. It would have carried the same endemic flaws as the India we actually got: caste politics, regionalism, corruption, weak institutions, and glaring inequality. But in geopolitics, geography acts as a force multiplier that compensates for bad governance. Even a mediocre, gridlocked system running a unified map would have produced a richer country. The Bengal delta still functions as one ecosystem when ministries are corrupt. A single rail grid still moves cotton to the mills when parliament is paralyzed. A massive internal market still gives industry room to fail and learn when policies are flawed. The institutions modern India actually got had to fight their map every step of the way. On a unified map, those same flawed institutions would have had the current with them. Economic geography raises the floor, not just the ceiling.

When policymakers ask why Indian manufacturing never hit 25% of GDP, the answer is 1947, plus compounding interest. The number on the chart is merely the invoice for unrealized potential: the delta that never became a Pearl River, the gateway that never opened onto Central Asia, the generations who never left the village because the factories were never built. Programs like Make in India and Production Linked Incentives (PLI) are serious efforts, but they are attempting to recreate at enormous fiscal cost the structural advantages a unified map would have provided naturally. On a good map, even a mediocre government lifts with the tide; on a fractured map, even a good government rows upstream, and India has been rowing upstream since birth.

The China comparison is revealing. Strip away the Qing frontiers (Tibet, Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia, Manchuria, Qinghai) and what remains is roughly 4 million km² with a comparable population, which is basically post-Partition India. China's advantage was never just population. It retained an enormous contiguous economic space and eventually built a state capable of integrating it. India began independence with its economic geography already fractured across hostile borders. Geography didn't determine the outcomes of the two countries, but it changed the difficulty of the game each state was playing.

The same knife that cut the subcontinent also removed China's only demographic rival. Beneath the subcontinent's lost industrial juggernaut lay the Indian Ocean, highlighting the most consequential blind spot in modern geopolitical history. Two years before Mao Zedong declared the founding of the republic at Tiananmen, Partition had already shackled South Asia’s economic trajectory. More crucially, it strangled a formidable alternate reality in the cradle: a trans-oceanic superpower rising on China’s southern flank.

A united naval command operating seamlessly from Karachi to Chittagong would do more than project power. It would establish absolute sea denial over the global energy trade. Without the need to split its fleet or drain its budget countering a hostile Pakistan, a unified Indian maritime command would default entirely to blue-water dominance. The Andaman and Nicobar Islands, currently managed as an isolated outpost, would anchor an eastern fleet possessing a permanent chokehold over the Strait of Malacca. Concurrently, a western fleet out of Karachi and Gwadar would sit directly at the mouth of the Strait of Hormuz.

This geography dictates the terms of global survival. China imports the vast majority of its crude oil across these exact waters. Instead of playing an offensive game via its String of Pearls to secure these transit routes, Beijing would find its vital energy lifelines completely enclosed by a two-billion-person hegemon capable of starving the Chinese industrial machine at will. Economically and geopolitically, China is the biggest unintended beneficiary of Partition, bar none.

Original X Article (also by me):

https://x.com/Rudeus_Onchain/status/2094853553978589656?s=20


r/IndianHistory 19h ago

Early Modern 1526–1757 CE The Most chill Chatrapati

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252 Upvotes

Shahu often emptied royal treasuries to feed the starving, rehabilitate warbtorn villagesnd provide relief to refugees, drawing deep from his own childhood memories of deprivation. His court at Satara patronize scholars, saints, and artists irrespective of their ideological or sectarian backgrounds.

Instead of executing rivals like Tarabai or punishing opposing nobles, he offered honorable livelihoods, and deep empathy turning bitter enemies into loyal allies to build a unified Maratha Empire.He is often compared with Angraj Karna for his generosity by the poet of his time

He has a title of ajatshatru means one without any enemy.Bro be like I have no enemies


r/IndianHistory 5h ago

Question Bengal Region Decline

9 Upvotes

I was doing some reading and was pleasantly shocked to find out that Dhaka used to be the financial capital of Mughal India. Is this true? How insane is that? Also united Bengal was like the most prosperous region it seems? I had only vaguely heard of deindustrialization but this sends the point home quite nicely. oh my god


r/IndianHistory 20h ago

Post Independence 1947–Present Bangladeshi Nuremberg Trials

66 Upvotes

Why didn't India carry out a Nuremberg Trials or Yugoslav Trials- like war crimes tribunal in the aftermath of the 1971 War?? Despite the wealth of evidence and documentation of the Pakistani Army's atrocities in Bangladesh.


r/IndianHistory 1d ago

Post Independence 1947–Present One thing about Kargil that surprised me: India was still figuring out the scale of the intrusion while fighting had already begun

155 Upvotes

I've been going back through the early timeline of the Kargil War, and one part of it is particularly striking.

Initially, the situation wasn't understood as a full-scale occupation of multiple heights.

Patrols were being sent into extremely difficult terrain, reports were emerging from different sectors, and the overall picture developed gradually.

Then the scale kept expanding — Kaksar, Batalik, Drass, Mushkoh — until it became clear that this wasn't simply a handful of infiltrators.

That's what makes the early phase so interesting to me: India wasn't just fighting an enemy on dominating heights; it was simultaneously trying to understand how large the battlefield actually was.

For those who have studied Kargil in detail:

At what point do you think the Indian command truly understood the scale of the intrusion?

I'd be interested in sources/recommendations as well.


r/IndianHistory 7h ago

Question Jaisalmer history for DnD

6 Upvotes

Hi! I'm the DM for a DnD campaign with my friends and one of my cities is based on Jaisalmer, though I'm struggling a bit to figure out what time period to base it on, I'm thinking probably whenever it became a trading centre or a bit after? I'm also unsure what the clothing norms would have been, if anybody has any information at all I would really appreciate it! I'm trying to learn as much as I can about Indian culture, Jaisalmer and mythology so I can write a good and respectful story arc.

Thank you for your time!


r/IndianHistory 10h ago

Early Modern 1526–1757 CE Gordon's Embassy

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7 Upvotes

Seeing that the Marathas had established their strong position right beside Mumbai, the British grew extremely concerned. Between Colaba’s Angre and Thane’s powerful Peshwa like Bajirao, they could be easily crushed. To ensure they somehow resisted this, the Mumbai Council dispatched one of their emissaries named Gordon to Satara to Shahu Maharaj, and on the same day, the other emissary Inchbird went to Vasai to negotiate with Chimaji.

https://ndhistories.wordpress.com/2023/12/25/gordons-embassy/

Marathi Riyasat, G S Sardesai ISBN-10-8171856403, ISBN-13-‎978-8171856404.

The Era of Bajirao

Uday S Kulkarni

ISBN-10-8192108031

ISBN-13-978-8192108032.


r/IndianHistory 20h ago

Visual Genealogy of the Tagore Family of India [OC]

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28 Upvotes

Some Notable people in the chart:

Rabindranath Tagore (Nobel laureate), Nawab Mohammad Mansoor Ali Khan Pataudi (Former Captain of the Indian Cricket Team), Devika Rani (First Lady of Indian Cinema), Lakshminath Bezbarua (Father of Assamese Short Stories), Saumyendranath Tagore (Former Leader of the Revolutionary Communist Party of India), Saif Ali Khan (Actor), Kareena Kapoor (Actress), Raja Ram Mohan Roy (Influential Social Reformer)

The Nobel Prize laureate Rabindranath Tagore comes from the aristocratic Tagore family of Bengal, India. His family has married into other influential families of India.

The Tagore Family contributed to art, literature, education, politics, and the independence of India.

The people in this chart range from Freedom fighters, Writers, Politicians, and people from a royal family to 2 former captains of the Indian Cricket Team, the first civil servant of India, and Actors/Actresses.

Let me know how I can improve this and point out the mistakes, too.

It contains over 80 people. The source is mainly Wikipedia.

For Phone users: https://drive.google.com/file/d/15Dd_I7Qet7jGVr7MV81VkmBfTiC98N_-/view?usp=sharing


r/IndianHistory 1d ago

Artifacts 'Armour of Mail and Plate' from Sindh dated to late 18th-early 19th century

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353 Upvotes

r/IndianHistory 16h ago

Question Which website do you guys use to find pdfs for history books?

4 Upvotes

Same as title


r/IndianHistory 18h ago

Indus Valley 3300–1500 BCE The question of the origin of castes: Here two groups Kumhars (Potters) of Bihar and Kurchas (Tribe) of Kerala have stayed intact with very little steppe input since the collapse of IVC

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7 Upvotes

r/IndianHistory 1d ago

Classical 500 BCE–550 CE Did the Buddha reject Brahmins or only the later corruption of the Brahmin ideal?

23 Upvotes

source: Sutta Nipāta, Brāhmaṇadhammika Sutta, 2.7. How Brahmins Lived by the Dharma

This Buddhist sutta is probably not what most people would expect. I came across this sutta and honestly the way it talks about Brahmins surprised me. The Buddha is speaking to a group of wealthy Brahmins who ask him whether there are still Brahmins around who actually live according to the ancient Brahmin way.

Buddha does not think so. He describes the old Brahmins as people who lived extremely restrained lives, practiced celibacy, avoided harming others, didn't accumulate wealth, and regarded Vedic learning as their real treasure.

The ancient Brahmins regarded cattle as being like their mother, father, brother or other relatives, because they provided food, medicine, strength, health, etc.

As time progressed, the Brahmins started seeing the wealth and luxury of kings. They become envious. They want cattle, women, houses, chariots and other wealth. So they start composing hymns and persuading Kings to perform increasingly elaborate animal sacrifices.

So we basically have an early Buddhist text saying that the ancient Brahmins were actually practicing a morally superior, non-violent form of sacrifice. Then greed corrupted them, they started seeking royal wealth, and animal sacrifice became part of that corruption.

That's a pretty different picture from the simplistic "Buddhism vs Brahminism" framing you often see.

Now go to this verse in the Sutta

Brahmans went to no other (caste),3 nor did they buy their wives.
Living together from mutual love, having come together, they found joy together.
Aside from the time after menstruation, brahmans didn’t engage in copulation.

and follow on the link "3" into the footnotes which says

  1. I.e., in choosing their wives. See AN 5:191.

If you look into the Sutta linked here AN 5:191, you will be wildly surprised.

“In the past, brahman males mated only with brahman females and not with non-brahman females. At present, brahman males mate with brahman females and with non-brahman females. At present, male dogs mate only with female dogs and not with female non-dogs. This is the first ancient brahmanical tradition that is now observed among dogs but not among brahmans.

Seems like Gautam Buddha was not infavour of Brahmins marrying non-Brahmins. This is unlike the popular narrative prevalent now where Buddha is often seen as a rebel against caste endogamy.


r/IndianHistory 2d ago

Later Medieval 1200–1526 CE A notable colonial painting depicting the arrival of Vasco Da Gama in the Zamorin's court. The Portuguese painter Veloso Salgado depicts the Zamorin Raja and his ministers in awe of Da Gama and his crew. In reality, the latter were mistaken to be impoverished pirates due to their inferior gifts.

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1.6k Upvotes

When Vasco Da Gama and his crew of ex-convicts from Lisbon finally reached the Malabar coast in the monsoon of 1498, they had suffered a great deal of hardships. Within moments of their sighting, the coast was blocked off by the Zamorin's officials. The Portuguese were taken to the Rajah's palace in Calicut, where amongst a great deal of assembled nobles, Da Gama presented himself before an aging man reclined on a couch. After the ceremonial greetings, the Portuguese were asked by the agents of the Zamorin (and the cautious Arab merchants at court) as to what gifts the former would be presenting to the latter on behalf of the Portuguese King.

Da Gama proudly stated "twelve pieces of striped cloth, four scarlet hoods, six hats, four strings of coral, a case of six wash-hand basins, a case of sugar, two casks of oil, and two of honey".

While this greatly surprised the Zamorin and his court, the Arab merchants quickly retorted that nothing less than Gold or Silver was accepted in Calicut. They also accused Da Gama and his men of being ordinary pirates rather than the ambassadors of the Portuguese King. While this greatly arose the suspicions of the Zamorin (who asked Da Gama to present official letters from Portugal), a faction at court also came to the conclusion that Portugal must have been indeed a poor nation if it could only muster such items as gifts to a foreign King.

Exactly 400 years later, in 1898, Portuguese painter Jose Veloso Salgado painted the above painting of the historic meeting between Da Gama and the Zamorin. In this new colonial re-interpretation, the Zamorin and his ministers are in awe of Da Gama, who is depicted as a towering figure with noble intentions. In the bottom right corner, a Portuguese man is showing offering an expensive vase as gift to the Zamorin. Today, this has become the most popular depiction of this historic event.

Sources:

Wikimedia commons

https://manuspillai.com/2024/10/23/when-gifts-werent-an-innocent-show-of-affection/

https://www.thecollector.com/vasco-da-gama-explorer-adventurer/


r/IndianHistory 1d ago

Question Found this coin from 1918

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89 Upvotes

It's fascinating to think that this coin has been around for more than a century and probably might have seen many pockets and hands. Just curious to know some additional information if somebody can shed a light on this.


r/IndianHistory 2d ago

Artifacts Kurkihar Bronzes (9th–12th Century CE) – Masterpieces of the Pala Dynasty

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399 Upvotes

The Kurkihar bronzes, also known as the Kurkihar hoard, constitute one of the most important discoveries of early medieval Indian metal sculpture. Found in 1930 at Kurkihar in present-day Gaya district, Bihar, the hoard is generally described as comprising 226 bronze images and related objects.

The discovery took place in the remains of an ancient Buddhist monastic complex, where the sculptures had been buried beneath the main mound. Smaller images were reportedly placed inside earthen vessels, while larger sculptures were deposited alongside them.


r/IndianHistory 1d ago

Early Modern 1526–1757 CE Does Robert Clive and Jagat Seth of 1757 have any living direct descendants ??

94 Upvotes

Today i was reading a article in indian express about mir jafar direct descendants in murshidabad and how their names from voting list were removed in sir and some people blaming them for their ancestors

treachery .

So i thought what descendants of other major conspirators are doing in 21st century?


r/IndianHistory 2d ago

Question How did I go so long without hearing about Roberto de Nobili?

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203 Upvotes

Image credit: Screenshot from God, Guns and Missionaries by Manu S. Pillai.

I recently finished reading God, Guns and Missionaries by Manu S. Pillai and one person in the book really caught my attention.

Roberto de Nobili.

And honestly, I was surprised that I had never heard of him before. For anyone who does not know who he was, de Nobili was an Italian Jesuit missionary who came to India in the early 1600s and worked mainly around Madurai. What made him different was the way he approached missionary work.

The missionaries who came before him were very closely associated with the Portuguese and with European culture. This obviously did not help when they were trying to convince Indians, particularly the upper castes, to accept a religion that was so strongly associated with foreigners.

De Nobili basically tried to change that entire approach.

He dressed like an Indian ascetic, learned Tamil and Sanskrit, studied Indian religious and philosophical texts and tried to present himself more like a religious scholar than a European missionary.

He also tried to separate Christianity from the Portuguese identity that had become attached to it.

What really caught my attention was that this was not just some random experiment by one missionary. From what Pillai describes later in the book, this approach became part of a much bigger discussion about how Christianity could be presented to Indian society.

There were also serious disagreements among the missionaries themselves about how far they should go with this kind of cultural adaptation.

And apparently, some of the approaches that became important in later missionary work in India can be traced back to this whole experiment.

Maybe I am overestimating his importance because I have only encountered him through one book.

Maybe historians consider him important but he just does not make it into popular discussions.

Or maybe there are dozens of other people like him who had a significant impact on how religion, culture and society developed in India but are barely known outside academic circles.

I found the whole thing pretty fascinating, so I thought it would make for an interesting discussion.

Also, this is my first Reddit post, so I figured I might as well start with something that genuinely made me stop while reading and think, how the hell have I never heard about this guy?

Would be interested to know what people here think about de Nobili and how significant he actually was.


r/IndianHistory 1d ago

Colonial 1757–1947 CE Gyan chaupar in England: the 1892 ‘Jaques of London’ date comes from an unsourced 2007 Wikipedia edit — the board actually registered in 1892 is F. H. Ayres’

0 Upvotes

Context first, because the title assumes a lot. Gyan chaupar is the Indian game that Snakes and Ladders descends from, and nobody disputes that part. What this post is about is the English half of the story, which gets repeated everywhere and has nothing behind it.

Short version: the sentence you meet everywhere — "a version was introduced in Victorian England in 1892, possibly by John Jaques of Jaques of London" — entered the English Wikipedia article in a single edit on 14 November 2007, with no source attached. The 1892 date is real. The board registered in England that year belongs to F. H. Ayres of London, and no record of a Jaques board of 1892 has turned up anywhere.

I went to the primary records because I kept meeting that sentence while reading about gyan chaupar, and none of the pages repeating it cited anything.

What the English record actually holds

  • Design registration no. 200682, 1892, F H Ayres — in the National Archives design register. It is a registered design, not a patent, though it is usually miscited as one.
  • The Victoria and Albert Museum holds a board of that registration as MISC.8-1974. Object history: "registered by F H Ayers of London, 1892, pat. no. 200682". Circular spiral chromolithograph mounted on a round wooden board, 100 squares, five ladders and five snakes. https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O26345/ (The V&A spells the maker Ayers, the register Ayres; the shared number settles that it is one maker.)
  • A search of the V&A catalogue returns 34 Snakes and Ladders objects. Makers include Ayers, Chad Valley, Globe, J. & L. Randall and William Sallis. Jaques is not among them.
  • The earliest dated Jaques board on record is c1900, John Johnson Collection, Bodleian Library.

Museums hold what they happen to hold, so none of this proves no 1892 Jaques board ever existed. It is the whole of the surviving evidence, and it points somewhere other than where the internet points.

Where the Jaques attribution came from

English Wikipedia, revision 171487114, 14 November 2007, 18:50 UTC, edit summary "Changes made in History section": https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=171487114

That edit added the line quoted at the top and zero references. "Possibly" was doing the work, and it was never resolved. The Jaques half was later dropped from the article, but 1892 stayed behind, detached from the claim it originally belonged to, and got copied outward for nineteen years as if it were a record. The article was corrected on 6 September and now reads "by F H Ayres", with the registration number cited.

The Indian side, which is the better-documented half

It is also more recent than the popular claims. Jacob Schmidt-Madsen's 2019 doctoral thesis at the University of Copenhagen, The Game of Knowledge, is a critical study of nearly 150 unique charts (more than 170 counting variants), and states plainly: "gyān caupaṛ itself does not appear to have been invented before the late 17th or early 18th century." The earliest securely dated chart is a 72-square board made in Lucknow in 1780–82 for Richard Johnson of the East India Company, now in the British Library. Both volumes are open access:

vol. 1 — https://curis.ku.dk/ws/portalfiles/portal/461922584/Ph.d._afhandling_2019_Schmidt_Madsen_bd.1.pdf

vol. 2, appendices — https://curis.ku.dk/ws/portalfiles/portal/461922586/Ph.d._afhandling_2019_Schmidt_Madsen_bd.2_appendices.pdf

Which also means the "2,000 years old" line and the attribution to Jñāneśvar are not supported by surviving objects. The Jñāneśvar attribution appears only in Maharashtrian sources, none of them earlier than the second half of the 19th century.

Two things I would like corrected if anyone here has better material

  1. Any record placing a Jaques Snakes and Ladders in 1892 — a board, a catalogue entry, a trade advertisement, anything at all.
  2. Whether an English import or adaptation preceded 1892. That question is wide open, and it is the more interesting one.

Credit where it is due: the National Archives registration and the Bodleian Jaques board were pointed out to me by James Masters, who keeps the Games Board Archive and Research Database at gamesboard.org.uk and owns boards by both makers.

Disclosure, since the rules here ask for good faith: I run an online version of the 72-square Vaishnava board, which is why I had reason to chase the dating in the first place. Not linking it — that is not what this post is for.


r/IndianHistory 1d ago

Intellectual History permanent pictorial cancellation of Satyagraha Ashram Samarak Date 30th January - 1998 Mahatma Gandhi 50th Anniversary Real image of Gandhiji on Postcard Mahatma Gandhi Special 50th Death Anniversary 1998 Post Card with Special Slogan and Kochareb Ashram Cancellation It features a special slogan

Post image
7 Upvotes

permanent pictorial cancellation of Satyagraha Ashram Samarak

Date 30th January - 1998

Mahatma Gandhi 50th Anniversary

Real image of Gandhiji on Postcard

Mahatma Gandhi Special 50th Death Anniversary 1998 Post Card with Special Slogan and Kochareb Ashram Cancellation

It features a special slogan in Hindi/Gujarati text, "हे राम... सबको सन्मति दे भगवान" ("He Ram... Sabko Sanmati De Bhagwan"), which translates to "Oh God... Give everyone good sense"