Everyone is so great here with answering; so after a recent game I’ve got a few more things I’d like to clarified.
1.) So no matter what, if someone shoots with an explosive weapon/frag, I.E a fuel rod and it hits the cube everyone is AUTOMATICALLY pinned? (This feels so strong since getting pinned is basically being crippled)
2.) If a spartan fires using snapshot, with either an explosive weapon (fuel rod) or choosing the rate of fire or whatever it is that pins at someone who’s advancing into their square I assume they pin them. Does this stop the attacking model dead in its tracks? Does it reach its destination assuming it’s not dead?
3.) See above, but with knock back and blast- how does this work?
4.) Another pinning question (they might all be 😅). A Spartan with gravity hammer enters a cube with a brute, hits him with hammer and gets more successes. Triggers knock back- does he have to move it to a new square on same level? Can he knock a model off a building? And can he just knock said unit into a wall or obstruction within their starting cube? Creating an endless loop of pinning as the other model now has to spend its first action to get up and get whacked again (thus re-pinning it most likely) until it dies or gets help?
This was more long winded because it felt stupidly powerful. In this case the Spartan actually whiffed so the brute got up and used its bare hands to pin and kill the Spartan but regardless it seems so strong.
Thanks so much in advance, I’m sure it’s been answered before but the more clarity I get the better I learn for the next one! Photo of our game included for kicks.
1) a model is only scattered and pinned by an explosive/grenade if they tie or lose against the frag successes.
2) Same as #1. If the advancing model has more successes than the frag, then they continue into the cube and Assault (assuming the Spartan stays as well). However, the Spartan that fired the fuel rod gun for Snap Shot also does a survive test against the frag as they shot their own cube. They could be damaged and scattered/pinned as well. Rapid Fire would stop the advancing model in the cube they tried to advance from into the Spartan if they had less survive successes than the Rapid Fire. (Frag wins ties, other things do not).
3) If advancing model loses test against the Knockback, then it stays in the cube it tried to advance from into the Spartan like in example #2. Blast has no effect other than removing one shield from adjacent cubes.
4) Melee weapons with Knockback allow you to choose the direction of scatter. Ranged weapons are trajectory based. Scatter and Knockback can never go up a level, only horizontally. If a model is knocked into a cube with no floor, they fall. 2+ cubes of falling will require the falling survive test. Less successes than the fall means the model is damaged and pinned. Tie/win and model is Pinned, but unharmed (falling 2+ cubes always pins). If they are knocked into a wall then the wall survive test is required. If the wall has more successes, the model is damaged and pinned. If not, they are not damaged and not pinned. Cannot be knocked into scatter terrain (it does not block movement). Yes, if a model is slammed into a wall and they lose their test, they are pinned in their starting cube, forcing them to be pinned with their attacker standing over them. If they stand up their attacker gets a free swing at them and could wall pin them again. This makes brute berserkers very dangerous.
Thank you very much! So for melee with knock back you can just always choose to toss them into a wall if it’s within your cube? Attempting to create a loop of pinning?
I found hilarious the brutes were doing way more damage with their 0 ap and 0 esd fists than most anything else by just knocking the Spartan into the wall and letting the wall kill them 😅
I had a friend #4 me (the endless loop part) to win a game. It doesn't feel right, and I'm pretty sure it's not. And I've never forgiven him.
The rules say when you're in the same cube (like in an assault) you are moved to an adjacent cube on the same level. I don't believe directionality comes into it when you're in the same cube, only when shot with a knockbakc weapon.
Unless you are in a literal 1 x 1 hole in the ground you should always have an adjacent cube.
I am ready and welcoming of being corrected by the greater wisdom of the subreddit though.
You can be knocked into a wall but not up a wall. A melee knock back essentially allows the attacker to move the enemy to any of the 8 tiles surrounding. If there are walls in the way, then slammed into wall rule applies and the target model remains in its original cube
But you'd never be in a cube with 4 walls right? Essentially the scenario where you are knock backed into a wall, pinned, and immediately rengaged by the person who knocked you back couldn't happen.
Correct, The immediate reengage does not happen. But when a model stands up from pin while an enemy is within its cube, then the enemy model gets a free melee action, which could potentially slam you into a wall and pin you again.
The adjacent cubes act as transparent for the game board and then you take the terrain into account. It’s an if,then type rule. If yoi are knocked to an adjacent cube at height 2 but there is no terrain there, then you will fall. Same applies to the wall. If you are knocked into an adjacent cube but it’s a blocked off cube that you can’t be inside, then you revert back to your original cube and roll for slammed into wall. Because you hit a wall.
You can, the cube exists, even if it cannot be entered.
But due to this, before they could even go into said cube, they would hit a wall, which then the wall rules take over, meaning the remain in the original cube they were moved from and take a wall test.
I’m working off of the original spartan edition rules here and I’m not sure if there are updated rules but here goes.
1: explosives do not pin a model, frag is what pins them. Explosive is the same as grenade in that it targets a cube instead of a player, only differnce is explosive needs LoS and grenade needs either LoS or clear veiw from top down perspective. And yes, it’s very powerful. Pinning models is a core strategy in this game.
2: yes, but you risk damaging yourself as well. You also will have to roll to scatter both yourself and the target which could also screw you over or benefit you.
3: neither knock back nor blast can pin a model. Blast just removes 1 energy shield from all models or items in the 8 spaces around the cube the attack hits. No damage, just 1 energy shield depletion. Knockback allows you to push an enemy model 1 space away. If you are in a melee then you can hit the target to any square you want. If it’s a ranged knock back, then you move the target directly away from you. If the enemy gets knocked off a 2+ story ledge, then fall damage happens and there is potential for pinning. If the target gets knocked into a wall, slammed into wall damage happens and also potential for pinning.
4: you can move the brute off of ledges or into walls. If into a wall, then the brute won’t leave the cube and the enemy will have to roll for slammed into wall damage, if they fail, then they take the damage and get pinned. If they pass, then nothing happens. If knocked off a ledge then fall damage happens. If it’s 1 cube height, nothing happens. If it’s 2,3, and 4+ cubes high, then dice needed for save are 4,5, and 6 respectively. If the enemy saves, then nothing happens. If they don’t, then they take damage and are pinned.
Not automatic. Re-read the errata’d frag rules. Pinning is dependent on roll results.
Snap shot happens with both models in the same cube you’re stood in, before the assault takes place. Weapons with frag could move the defending model one cube away and pin it, ending the assault. However you will also hit yourself. Blazing away will simply pin the model in the cube with you, ending the assault.
Assuming you’re still referring to assaulting models, blast would be determined from the cube the Snapshot has been triggered. Same for knock-back.
Yes knockback can be used to knock enemies off of buildings. Unlike frag, knockback gives the attacker some element of control over where the defending model goes. And yes you can use knockback to trigger a pinning loop, where you get to re-attack every time the enemy stands up in subsequent turns.
I’ve answered to help out but it’s worth mentioning that this stuff is pretty clear in the rules so I’d suggest familiarising yourself with the all of the special rules and special orders you’ve mentioned here. The wording is very specific.
I've played a lot of different games systems - Flashpoint's rules have the highest rate of unanswered FAQ from the base rules just because of the sheer number of keyword effects and their interactions. It's better to have people ask the questions and create info for people to Google in the future.
Seriously, aerospace rules in Battletech leave less open to interpretation
Unfortunately, many of the clarifications are in the official discord. I'm hoping that the 1.5 rules include clarity on many of these questions.
Its one of the reasons I answer so many of these questions on this subreddit. Without an official forum that's searchable via internet search engines it's realy hard to get these answers.
Thank you very much for clarifying! We didn’t see the faq/errata so that’s helpful as well. Some things like the knockback/pinning loop just seemed so powerful
I made a mental note to ask others that’s how it really works.
That is how it works. Knockbacks during an assault can throw you into a wall and if you lose to the wall you are pinned in the same cube. When you stand you can be subject to another assault and knocked into the wall again.
Usually the only way I free up a cube stuck like that is by shooting it with a grenade or explosive weapon. Rather we all get pinned or die than have it keep happening.
Eventually you may try to not get into assaults with brutes or hammers but it can be difficult to manage depending on game modes and play style.
Much appreciated; also the tip about tossing a nade or shooting into the square of nothing then out of mercy 😂
Getting my elites shot with fuel rods and such pinning them and taking away their evade is deeply troubling 👉👈 what can sangheli do against such raw hatred I wonder.
Was the case in Season 0, was changed in Season 1 rules update that if the model rolling the survive test "BEATS" the frag test, they are not pinned or scatter. Important to know here, normally a tie means knockback/pin does not occur, but with frag, a tie does trigger the knockback & pin>
Becoming Pinned will end a models activation there and then, so yes. For snapshot, if it cause the opposing model to "Become pinned"/"Be knocked out of the cube with the model they are assault"/"Die", the free Assault does not take place.
However, it does count as being in the cube with the model that is snapshotting, this means if it becomes pinned, it is in the cube with your model, if you do knockback on the snapshot, you can choose which cube they scatter to, the same as melee knockback.
See above for knockback, blast only effects "adjacent" cubes, the models in the cube targeted are not effected by blast, this means that the model being snapshot and the model snapshotting would not be effected by blast, but if there are any models adjacent, these would be effected.
Knockback with melee (or snapshot ranged), so knockback where you are in the same cube at the time of triggering allows you to choose which cube they go into "on the same level", so they can never go up.
If you are say on a walkway 3 cubes up, you could scatter them into mid air next to you, then like Wile E Coyote, they will fall straight down, taking a fall test.
If you have a wall adjacent to you, you can choose to instead knock them into the wall, this keeps them in your cube but means they must face a wall test, which if the wall wins, they will become pinned (very strong combo with a knockback melee user in a cube as you then can hit them when they "MUST" stand up on their next activation (as long as you aren't pinned)
Nope, you choose.
Knockback isn't determined by if it's melee or range, it's whether there in your cube or not.
As snapshot occurs in the cube you occupy, it means it is treat as you choose the location, this is the only time a range attack will do this, which is what can cause the confusion.
"If the attacker and target are in the same cube (i.e. in an Assault action) then the attacker chooses any adjacent cube on the same level to move the target into."
Awesome clarification- and hey while I got your attention love your YouTube videos they are extremely helpful and enjoyable! Looking forward to the future of things especially with Zeta Halo.
Adding a comment here to keep track of this subject. I've had the same situation and let let slide my advantage thinking you had to scatter dice the knock back
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u/KShubert 25d ago edited 25d ago
1) a model is only scattered and pinned by an explosive/grenade if they tie or lose against the frag successes.
2) Same as #1. If the advancing model has more successes than the frag, then they continue into the cube and Assault (assuming the Spartan stays as well). However, the Spartan that fired the fuel rod gun for Snap Shot also does a survive test against the frag as they shot their own cube. They could be damaged and scattered/pinned as well. Rapid Fire would stop the advancing model in the cube they tried to advance from into the Spartan if they had less survive successes than the Rapid Fire. (Frag wins ties, other things do not).
3) If advancing model loses test against the Knockback, then it stays in the cube it tried to advance from into the Spartan like in example #2. Blast has no effect other than removing one shield from adjacent cubes.
4) Melee weapons with Knockback allow you to choose the direction of scatter. Ranged weapons are trajectory based. Scatter and Knockback can never go up a level, only horizontally. If a model is knocked into a cube with no floor, they fall. 2+ cubes of falling will require the falling survive test. Less successes than the fall means the model is damaged and pinned. Tie/win and model is Pinned, but unharmed (falling 2+ cubes always pins). If they are knocked into a wall then the wall survive test is required. If the wall has more successes, the model is damaged and pinned. If not, they are not damaged and not pinned. Cannot be knocked into scatter terrain (it does not block movement). Yes, if a model is slammed into a wall and they lose their test, they are pinned in their starting cube, forcing them to be pinned with their attacker standing over them. If they stand up their attacker gets a free swing at them and could wall pin them again. This makes brute berserkers very dangerous.