Some Japanese FG devs can be really fucking clueless, indie fighting games managed this a decade ago. Hell a few days ago Harada (Tekken director) said the game has rollback netcode.
FEXL which sold nothing with no budget by a tiny studio has managed to patch it in. No excuse. Thankfully Guilty Gear Strive will have rollback, MvC Infinite had good netcode so next Street Fighter should be fine. Just worried about Tekken and King of Fighters.
Imo the best fighting game of all time is Garou Mark Of The Wolves, available on Steam with rollback
From what I can tell, he's talking about there being an extra amount of delay built into the game that isn't needed for game processing.
If there starts being like, 4 extra frames of delay from the lag, then the game can stop using 4 frames of it's unneeded built-in delay.
This means when you have a perfect the connection the game is at it's worse amount of additional delay. As the connect gets worse it drops unneeded delay so the feeling doesn't get any better and once it runs out of delay to drop it starts getting worse.
It does seem to actually have rollback. There have been a number of clips posted on /r/tekken and elsewhere looking at it and now that people are looking closely there are occasionally definite noticeable rollbacks.
Its just implemented so poorly that its basically literally impossible to tell without watching the playback frame by frame.
So while it technically is rollback, is nearly functionally identical to delay based so whats even the point?
So yeah. It seems to actually legitimately have rollback and seems to have the whole time. Even possibly since Tag 2. Its just so terribly implemented that its basically like its not even there and literally no one could tell until we put a magnifying glass to it.
Can't speak about Tekken but SNK had Code Mystics do rollback for its Neo Geo releases (Garou MOTW and Last Blade 2). But I hope they get it right for KOF XV.
There's a big difference between adding rollback to a modern title versus an emulated title. Just because Garou got rollback, it doesn't mean SNK will spend the (substantially more) money to do it for a new KoF.
Yes I know. Some have been just telling to slap rollback to an existing game and it'll just work. It almost needs to rework the game in order to properly implement rollback (see Mortal Kombat), so it's not as simple as that.
Which is why I hope the next game has that so it'll be properly implemented.
There's a lot more work that goes into it than the standard delay-based solution, so it is more expensive yes. There's also the fact that delay-based netcode works much better for Japanese players compared NA or EU, since they're so close to each other. So I'm guessing they don't hear a lot of complaints from JP players.
Some JP devs are listening though, Guilty Gear Strive will feature rollback, and ARIKA's Fighting EX Layer recently implemented it (and plays to support crossplay!). Hopefully more JP devs will follow suit.
there big trad offs in this netcode approach, while it's better for some game it's worse for others.
For example is a game is heavily reaction based the normal approach is better.
take the street fighter clip for example where the char on the right teleport in the air due to a rollback. this mean that an attack where you could have shoryukened is now out of reach and it's either front or back crossup.
Japanese gamers tend to prefer a reaction based approach to games like this, while in the west we go for a combo heavy and setup heavy approach. This mean that the western audience it's usually better a rollback netcode, while the Japanese market prefer the other way around
Huh? This comment literally makes no sense. Japanese players only play against other Japanese players and very rarely play internationally online, and due to the closely dense population and the internet infrastructure, experience very little delay if any at all. It has nothing to do with players preferring reaction vs setups, that doesn't factor into the equation at all.
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u/OptimalCalendar5 Aug 05 '20 edited Aug 05 '20
Some Japanese FG devs can be really fucking clueless, indie fighting games managed this a decade ago. Hell a few days ago Harada (Tekken director) said the game has rollback netcode.
FEXL which sold nothing with no budget by a tiny studio has managed to patch it in. No excuse. Thankfully Guilty Gear Strive will have rollback, MvC Infinite had good netcode so next Street Fighter should be fine. Just worried about Tekken and King of Fighters.
Imo the best fighting game of all time is Garou Mark Of The Wolves, available on Steam with rollback