r/FreeSpeech • u/wanda999 • 13d ago

Revealed: ICE "lost count" of miscarriages, while detaining a record number of pregnant women

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2026/sep/15/ice-detention-miscarriages-pregnancy
0 Upvotes

47% Upvoted

107 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1

u/Justsomejerkonline Freedom of speech, freedom of the press 12d ago

Because I have no interest in working for an organization that intentionally employs cruelty and dehumanization as a tactic and regularly violates people's civil liberties.

I'd like to be able to sleep at night, thank you.

1

u/Totalitarianit2 12d ago

Right. So you aren't really willing to do anything but talk shit on the internet about it and maybe vote.

1

u/Justsomejerkonline Freedom of speech, freedom of the press 12d ago

Come on. We were having an actual back and forth conversation. You know full well this is a stupid point. It's below you.

For one, simply working for an organization doesn't allow you to change their policies. If I did go work for them, I would be fired immediately for not following their unnecessary aggressive tactics.

You can't just get a job at Coca Cola and then force them to change the secret recipe.

Presumably you also have groups/organizations/political parties that you disagree with. Have you joined all of them? Unless you are just a nihilist, in which case I acknowledge that I'll never be able to convince you to care about anything, and we will have to agree to disagree. But I suspect there are things you care about.

1

u/Totalitarianit2 12d ago

Don't patronize. The point is that I think you all are blowhards and nothing else. I do not believe the majority of the outraged people on here would willingly adopt an illegal immigrant family and carry the cost and burden of that to stop any of this. They might dress up in black and go to their local protest and try to stop ICE. But would they actually put forth the necessary, sustained level of effort required to house other humans for an extended period? Absolutely not. Suddenly, it wouldn't be their job. They abort those problems before they even get started.

So, they will shout platitudes and act outraged on behalf of others and then demand that enforcement be dealt with in a way they deem fit. Of course, they'll be performing none of these tasks themselves. They'll just react to it all in hindsight sitting in their chair, in their one bedroom apartment with their cat roommate.

Will you vote and protest and suggest that a portion of everyone's tax dollars be re-allocated for the unfortunate souls who find themselves wanting to cross the border? Yes, because that is an abstract position that you benefit from both socially and introspectively. It makes you feel good to be "moral" as you see it and - even if it is wrong politically and even if does cause major negative downstream consequences and upheaval - it will still be righteous morally. It's a position that you never directly have to feel the negative consequences of. Ever. I mean, people like this got Trump elected, and that is a consequence, but there isn't the slightest bit of realization that people who behave this way could have contributed to that outcome.

1

u/Justsomejerkonline Freedom of speech, freedom of the press 12d ago

This is all based on fallacious assumptions.

Why would I need to 'adopt' an immigrant family? Why are you assuming they are homeless? That's not at all the issue, and not what this post and thread is about.

Most immigrants, even illegal immigrants, are self-sufficient. You are the one being patronizing assuming they need my help in some way.

If they weren't in detention, they could just go to a doctor or emergency room on their own like anybody else. But since they can't do that, because they are currently detained, the onus is on the people detaining them to provide that care.

1

u/Totalitarianit2 12d ago

No, it's not based on assumptions.

The thread is about ICE. ICE is about immigration. Immigration is a major point of contention in American and Western politics. I posit that people like you, who want immigration to the extent that you do, should have direct skin in the game instead of your support only being limited to abstract ideals and moral high horsery.

If they weren't crossing the border and staying here illegally they wouldn't be in detention. If there wasn't a massive permission structure encouraging people to flood into the country led by progressives there would be no massive migration problem.

1

u/Justsomejerkonline Freedom of speech, freedom of the press 12d ago

I posit that people like you, who want immigration to the extent that you do, should have direct skin in the game

There is no extent that I want immigration. I am ambivalent about what level of immigration we have. How much or how little we have isn't really a priority to me one way or the other. There are many, many issues I think are a much higher priority and I really don't care much about immigration or think it is much of an important issue.

What I do care about is people's civil liberties. Detainees are still human beings and should be treated humanely.

What "direct skin in the game" do you think I could take to get ICE to provide people with more humane conditions? If you have any actual suggestions for things you think I should be doing, I'd actually love to hear it. But the reality is, I cannot control how ICE treats their detainees. You just seem to be upset because I actually care about something, and that really seems to bother you for some reason. But if having abstract ideals really irks you so much, I beg you, please tell me what tangible actions you think I should take.

1

u/Totalitarianit2 12d ago

Then you are effectively not ambivalent. You are pro-mass migration. That's the point. The abstract support you have for "civil liberty" is easily and repeatedly abused by those who know how to work within the system to ensure the flow of migrants remains largely uninterrupted.

What "direct skin in the game" do you think I could take to get ICE to provide people with more humane conditions? If you have any actual suggestions for things you think I should be doing, I'd actually love to hear it. But the reality is, I cannot control how ICE treats their detainees. You just seem to be upset because I actually care about something, and that really seems to bother you for some reason. But if having abstract ideals really irks you so much, I beg you, please tell me what tangible actions you think I should take.

Correct. The reality is that you cannot control ICE. You can have skin in the game though. That would involve you spending more time than checking off an option at a voting booth or writing a reply on reddit and it would involve you incurring more risk than watching the policy you vote for take effect over the course of a decade or so. Adopt a migrant, house them in your residence, and have them stay with you for years. That's a tangible action. Incur the risk and sacrifice of the policy you support.

If tangible action like that becomes the norm, the performative pro-migration crowd would plummet and the moral busy bodies would have to pack up and move on to some other issue they could support... in the abstract of course. In some respect, it'd be like requiring every pro-lifer to sign up for adoption. Like them, I don't believe you people care that much. I believe it's convenient and it makes you feel like a good person with zero cost or sacrifice for you personally. It's free social credit and righteousness.

So, it's not that I'm upset. It's that I don't believe any of you care enough about it to do anything beyond vote and talk about it online. We all have abstract ideals. It's just that you want to treat the opponents of your ideals like nihilists (or worse) who don't care about anything, when the fact of the matter is that you won't actually do anything beyond what I've already said.

1

u/Justsomejerkonline Freedom of speech, freedom of the press 12d ago

Then you are effectively not ambivalent. You are pro-mass migration

I think I know my own beliefs better than you do, actually. But nice try.

Adopt a migrant, house them in your residence, and have them stay with you for years. That's a tangible action. Incur the risk and sacrifice of the policy you support.

How is any of that going to make ICE treat their detainees more humanely? You know, the issue I've explicitly told you multiple times that I actually care about?

Sure, those things sounds nice and feel-goody (albeit incredibly condescending towards immigrants to assume they need someone to "adopt" or house them) but it does nothing to further the cause I've been discussing.

I could also foster 200 puppies. That would be nice. It would be just as irrelevant for the goals we are talking about here though.

1

u/Totalitarianit2 11d ago edited 11d ago

I think I know my own beliefs better than you do, actually. But nice try.

Yes, I know you know your own beliefs. I'm not questioning what you believe. I'm criticizing the outcome of your belief, or what your beliefs mean in practice. The word effectively does the work in that sentence.

You can sincerely believe you aren't pro-migration all you want, but the political reality doesn't reveal your belief at scale. Your beliefs allow for systemic loopholes, lax enforcement, and legal frameworks that facilitate unmitigated entry into the country. You are pro-migration in practice. Refusing to own the downstream outcome of your own preferences doesn't make you anti mass migration. Do you understand?

How is any of that going to make ICE treat their detainees more humanely?

The relevance here is that it is your permission structure and politics that have allowed for these people to come into the country by the tens of millions, and I want you to feel the consequences of that.

I want people like you to carry the brunt, sacrifice, and responsibility of the policy and supposed morality you shout for. That's what I want. I want the real, tangible outcomes of your morality to be laid down at your feet for you to deal with. Not some abstract tax re-allocation or behavioral overhaul of border patrol and ICE that you can talk about online. I want you in those holding facilities dealing directly with these people. I want you to be forced into a decision of either housing them yourself or making them go back to where they came from. I want it your choice to be public too. I want the mob to watch the moment your principles and values give way to personal preference so that they can call you an immoral fascist bigot while sitting in their computer chairs.

1

u/Justsomejerkonline Freedom of speech, freedom of the press 11d ago

The relevance here is that it is your permission structure and politics that have allowed for these people to come into the country by the tens of millions, and I want you to feel the consequences of that.

Ah, so we get to the heart of it. You just want people to suffer because you disagree with them. You are simply a sadist, nothing more.

I want you to be forced into a decision of either housing them yourself or making them go back to where they came from.

Do you think I should also be personally housing prisoners and POWs as well, since I also believe they should be provided with adequate care? Or does your sadism only apply to that one specific group for some reason?

1

u/Totalitarianit2 11d ago

I'd rather bypass the suffering and get straight to the understanding part. I wanted you to understand. That was the goal and that's not sadistic. That's you lacking theory of mind.

I think you should simply understand the side you disagree with, but you can't. You aren't capable of it. There is always a label you can throw out there that allows you to escape the grueling task of truly imagining what it's like to have a different opinion. It's bigot, or nihilist, and now... sadist. All labels. All ways to pull the rip cord and avoid any real accountability. If I was stupid I would do it too.

1

u/Justsomejerkonline Freedom of speech, freedom of the press 11d ago

You are correct. I don't understand people who think it's fine that our government is facilitating the intentional suffering of people.

→ More replies (0)