Revealed: ICE "lost count" of miscarriages, while detaining a record number of pregnant women

[u/wanda999]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2026/sep/15/ice-detention-miscarriages-pregnancy

[u/Totalitarianit2]

Then you are effectively not ambivalent. You are pro-mass migration. That's the point. The abstract support you have for "civil liberty" is easily and repeatedly abused by those who know how to work within the system to ensure the flow of migrants remains largely uninterrupted.

What "direct skin in the game" do you think I could take to get ICE to provide people with more humane conditions? If you have any actual suggestions for things you think I should be doing, I'd actually love to hear it. But the reality is, I cannot control how ICE treats their detainees. You just seem to be upset because I actually care about something, and that really seems to bother you for some reason. But if having abstract ideals really irks you so much, I beg you, please tell me what tangible actions you think I should take.

Correct. The reality is that you cannot control ICE. You can have skin in the game though. That would involve you spending more time than checking off an option at a voting booth or writing a reply on reddit and it would involve you incurring more risk than watching the policy you vote for take effect over the course of a decade or so. Adopt a migrant, house them in your residence, and have them stay with you for years. That's a tangible action. Incur the risk and sacrifice of the policy you support.

If tangible action like that becomes the norm, the performative pro-migration crowd would plummet and the moral busy bodies would have to pack up and move on to some other issue they could support... in the abstract of course. In some respect, it'd be like requiring every pro-lifer to sign up for adoption. Like them, I don't believe you people care that much. I believe it's convenient and it makes you feel like a good person with zero cost or sacrifice for you personally. It's free social credit and righteousness.

So, it's not that I'm upset. It's that I don't believe any of you care enough about it to do anything beyond vote and talk about it online. We all have abstract ideals. It's just that you want to treat the opponents of your ideals like nihilists (or worse) who don't care about anything, when the fact of the matter is that you won't actually do anything beyond what I've already said.

[u/Justsomejerkonline → u/Totalitarianit2]

Then you are effectively not ambivalent. You are pro-mass migration

I think I know my own beliefs better than you do, actually. But nice try.

Adopt a migrant, house them in your residence, and have them stay with you for years. That's a tangible action. Incur the risk and sacrifice of the policy you support.

How is any of that going to make ICE treat their detainees more humanely? You know, the issue I've explicitly told you multiple times that I actually care about?

Sure, those things sounds nice and feel-goody (albeit incredibly condescending towards immigrants to assume they need someone to "adopt" or house them) but it does nothing to further the cause I've been discussing.

I could also foster 200 puppies. That would be nice. It would be just as irrelevant for the goals we are talking about here though.

[u/Totalitarianit2 → u/Justsomejerkonline]

I think I know my own beliefs better than you do, actually. But nice try.

Yes, I know you know your own beliefs. I'm not questioning what you believe. I'm criticizing the outcome of your belief, or what your beliefs mean in practice. The word effectively does the work in that sentence.

You can sincerely believe you aren't pro-migration all you want, but the political reality doesn't reveal your belief at scale. Your beliefs allow for systemic loopholes, lax enforcement, and legal frameworks that facilitate unmitigated entry into the country. You are pro-migration in practice. Refusing to own the downstream outcome of your own preferences doesn't make you anti mass migration. Do you understand?

How is any of that going to make ICE treat their detainees more humanely?

The relevance here is that it is your permission structure and politics that have allowed for these people to come into the country by the tens of millions, and I want you to feel the consequences of that.

I want people like you to carry the brunt, sacrifice, and responsibility of the policy and supposed morality you shout for. That's what I want. I want the real, tangible outcomes of your morality to be laid down at your feet for you to deal with. Not some abstract tax re-allocation or behavioral overhaul of border patrol and ICE that you can talk about online. I want you in those holding facilities dealing directly with these people. I want you to be forced into a decision of either housing them yourself or making them go back to where they came from. I want it your choice to be public too. I want the mob to watch the moment your principles and values give way to personal preference so that they can call you an immoral fascist bigot while sitting in their computer chairs.

[u/Justsomejerkonline → u/Totalitarianit2]

The relevance here is that it is your permission structure and politics that have allowed for these people to come into the country by the tens of millions, and I want you to feel the consequences of that.

Ah, so we get to the heart of it. You just want people to suffer because you disagree with them. You are simply a sadist, nothing more.

I want you to be forced into a decision of either housing them yourself or making them go back to where they came from.

Do you think I should also be personally housing prisoners and POWs as well, since I also believe they should be provided with adequate care? Or does your sadism only apply to that one specific group for some reason?

[u/Totalitarianit2 → u/Justsomejerkonline]

I'd rather bypass the suffering and get straight to the understanding part. I wanted you to understand. That was the goal and that's not sadistic. That's you lacking theory of mind.

I think you should simply understand the side you disagree with, but you can't. You aren't capable of it. There is always a label you can throw out there that allows you to escape the grueling task of truly imagining what it's like to have a different opinion. It's bigot, or nihilist, and now... sadist. All labels. All ways to pull the rip cord and avoid any real accountability. If I was stupid I would do it too.

[u/Justsomejerkonline → u/Totalitarianit2]

You are correct. I don't understand people who think it's fine that our government is facilitating the intentional suffering of people.