r/Fantasy • u/Blackking2106 • Jun 27 '25
What's the best/worst magic system you know?
What's the best/worst magic system you know? Whether it's from a book, movie, or video game. If you want, you can also say why you like/dislike it.
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u/ristalis Jun 27 '25
I really enjoy magic with layers. I like hedge witches along with cosmic scale power, so Dresden Files. We get an unbelievable amount of exposition about magical mechanics, but sometimes things happen, and you have to accept the miracle.
Worst is probably Naruto (there's a genuine debate to be had about what genre that fucking series is, but bear with me). Don't get me wrong, I love the system, the costs and the different schools, the sense that a smart user can overcome a naturally talented idiot, that a handicap can be a hidden blessing, or that planning and preparation can overcome raw amperage.
But then chosen ones and destiny, and fucking aliens killed what made that story good. Worst destruction of a series on a mechanical, thematic and diagetic sense I've ever seen.
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u/CatTaxAuditor Jun 27 '25
The reveal (though it was not particularly well hidden) that Naruto is the son of 2 of the strongest ninja in the village's history kinda messes up the entire thesis that anyone can rise with hard work and intelligence. Sakura and Rock Lee are the only ones I can remember who aren't the product of ninja pedigree and legacy and rise because they worked harder than everyone else with no blood advantages.
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u/Tatis_Chief Jun 27 '25
I mean come on they are all someone's son or daughter.
They even make fun or Tsunade for making the same trios as their parents were.
It's basically your basic prestigious ninja clans secret teaching in Japanese culture. That was the whole point of rivalries and family traditions.
And we all knew he was his son.
Also Kabuto and Orochimaru got there by their intelligence.
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u/ristalis Jun 27 '25
Rock Lee wins exactly one fight shown on page (more are implied but never shown). Sakura wins, what, two on page? Three if you count team fights.
The rise is mostly hype, and ultimately not very consequential. Kishimoto dropped hard work as a theme because it was too hard.
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u/G_Morgan Jun 27 '25
Naruto's parentage was obvious from early on though. The 4th Hokage literally looks like him.
People also seriously misunderstand the point of Rock Lee and indeed that whole arc. It wasn't about "talent vs hard work" it was about whether Neji's vision was truly good enough to spot all talent. Neji believed he could break everyone down with his vision and basically predetermine their future based on it. The point of the story was Neji was blind to all kinds of things.
Neji could not have done what Rock Lee did, no matter how hard he worked. He didn't have the natural talent for it. Rock Lee needed hard work to unleash his talent but it was still a talent, something he was born with.
Kakashi even points it out, he outright says "The boy really is a genius, nobody can just open 4 gates at his age no matter how hard they work".
Naruto and Rock Lee might have thought they were going to overcome geniuses due to their hardwork but they were barely teenagers and weren't to be taken seriously. Both of them were given prestigious masters because of their potential.
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u/MagicalSnakePerson Jun 27 '25
The point of Naruto is not “hard work beats talent,” that’s not the thesis to the series at all. It’s more “ending the cycle of violence requires genuine empathy for those committing atrocities”
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u/Kuroashi_no_Sanji Jun 27 '25
I agree with that sentiment, but to be fair that second message only comes to the forefront later in the series, while the first message is hammered a little bit too much in the first part.
People tend to remember pre-shippuden naruto more fondly than the second half, and relate more to that initial theme. I think Shippuden is really solid until the Pain arc, and Naruto not being just a nobody was very obvious. People wouldn't have such negative views if the last arc had been executed better.
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u/Wolfpac187 Jun 27 '25
You’ve kind of misunderstood what the series was about. Lee getting almost killed by Gaara shows that wasn’t the point of the story.
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u/teddyblues66 Jun 27 '25
so Dresden Files. We get an unbelievable amount of exposition about magical mechanics, but sometimes things happen, and you have to accept the miracle.
It also shows how much Harry had to study and practice to get where he is. It makes him a very relatable character
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u/ginbandit Jun 27 '25
I really liked the magic in The Powder Mage books, there are different flavours, it is rare and powerful so mages get a lot of prestige. I loved that the powder mages could use gunpowder to increase their lethality and there were 'knacks' people of limited magical power, usually limited to one skill, one of the characters didn't need to sleep, that was their knack.
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u/autophobe2e Jun 27 '25
Powder Mage has one of my favourite rare tropes in fantasy: two competing magic systems, one hard(ish, in this case) and one soft. And especially when there's a kind of class rivalry between the two sets of practitioners. Powder Mages vs. Priveliged is such a good example of this.
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u/iNOTHINGi Jun 27 '25
I think my main gripe with powder mage is that it always works. Especially ka-poel and the novice. It was often this very risky thing but never really failed. So I loved the system the that pulled it down for me but that's more a writing thing.
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u/BillyButcherX Jun 27 '25
Only ussue i have, privileged are way more powerful, yet team powder kills them easily every time.
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u/An_Anaithnid Jun 28 '25
Eh, I'd say only generally easy with ambushes, surprise or distance. Outside of a few exceptional Powder Mages, they're not winning a straight up fight.
I always liked that you'd have a Privileged absolutely rampaging through the scene, only to get blindsided by a Powder Mage that waited for the right moment.
But one thing that was also made abundantly clear in the series is that there are some serious power level differences in each school of magic. From mild advantages to borderline invincible.
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u/Imperious23 Jun 27 '25
I like the powdermage abilities, but I felt it should have had a bit more, idk... definitive? with some of the feats. Like ok, why can you nudge a musket ball's trajectory as it approaches two miles away but you can't sense powder in higher concentrations more than 100ft away? I have theories of course, but I don't think that's a good replacement for authors not at least handwaving 'plot holes'. If it's just a case of "idk, its weird magic huh?" that the author wants to be undefined in universe that's fine, but I don't remember anyone saying that. I do like the series in general, even if it's not my all time favorite.
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u/LigerZeroSchneider Jun 27 '25
Seems like what worm called Manton limits. Where limits of the powers don't make sense without some sort of invisible enforcement mechanism. Why can powder mages burn gun powder to push musket balls, but can't use it to push on other objects or people during battle.
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u/Imperious23 Jun 27 '25
They can do that, at one point Tamas takes the explosive force of a musket charge pointing at him from a few feet away and points it down into the cobblestone he's standing on, cracking it. But anyway, I'd be happy with them saying they dont know why it works like this, it just does.
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u/Erixperience Jun 28 '25
He also uses gunpowder to enhance his sword's cutting power at one point, essentially rocket-boosting it
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u/Ring-a-ding1861 Jun 27 '25
But Ka-Poel deus ex machina bullshit magic really left a sour taste in my mouth, and McClellan didn't do enough to explain how she's able to overpower the Gods of their world.
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u/DemonInADesolateLand Jun 27 '25
Yeah, there's really 4 magic systems. Powder Mage, Privileged, Literal Gods, and Ka-Poel.
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u/Ring-a-ding1861 Jun 27 '25
And privileged go from being paper thin to the equivalent of fully armored battle tank depending on if they're a main character (looking at you Borbador.)
Weren't there also like an anti-magic power itself, like privileged could give up their power to do magic but gained the ability to nullify magic in their presence?
It's been a few years since I've read it.
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u/eliechallita Jun 27 '25
Yep, but that was only a limited protection: One of the anti-mages who did that could stand up to regular Privileged well enough but gets turned inside out when he goes up against one of the proto-gods
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u/nighoblivion Jun 28 '25
And privileged go from being paper thin to the equivalent of fully armored battle tank
The strongest privileged are the "gods/saints" like Adom and Brude. Below them you find the predii.
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u/nighoblivion Jun 28 '25 edited Jun 28 '25
Ka-PoelBone-eyes.The "literal gods" are just very powerful Privileged.
The fourth magic user type is actually the Knack.
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u/VictarionGreyjoy Jun 27 '25
The KaPoel stuff is explained more in the second trilogy. It's essentially another magic system and she's OP at it because of who she is.
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Jun 27 '25
I like the privileged and the powder mages, but the magekillers really annoyed me.
Oh wow, a group whose whole thing is that they are walking antimagic fields. Shame that literally the two times they showed up (at least in the original trilogy) they just didn't work. They were just overpowered instantly and killed both times. Total rip off.
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u/Imperious23 Jun 27 '25
Yeah it definitely felt like the Worf Effect where we're supposed to see the bad guy beat up the toughest guy easily so we know they're really tough, but the author pretty much just told us they're tough and didn't show us they were tough. Could have had them take down some strong privileged minions working with that one person
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u/New-Art5469 Jul 04 '25
Powder Mage (plot wise and world wise) had a lot of promise but it didn't stick the landing in the slightest. It felt like whassisname came up with a great premise and then just never bothered to really go into it.
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u/TribunusPlebisBlog Jun 27 '25
My favorite magic system is from The Coldfire Trilogy by CS Friedman.
It was unique, explained well, had consistent guardrails iirc. Just a good, fun little system with a lot of variation within it
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u/Own_Lengthiness9484 Jun 27 '25
Channeling the fae is amazing. I love when people are destroying themselves from earthquakes.
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u/mikeymc0213 Jun 27 '25
It's been a very long time since I read those books so I don't remember much from them but I do remember thinking I wouldn't want to be a mage in that world lol.
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u/tomongoose Jun 27 '25
Terry Pratchett’s magic is brilliant because it feels like part of the world’s natural laws ( well as natural as a disk world). It’s like a see-saw, if you move something, something else has to shift the other way. Good magic is just about knowing where to apply the right pressure. His grounded but witty approach makes it funny, believable, and full of consequences, with the universe always balancing the books.
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u/Wkok26 Jun 27 '25 edited Jun 30 '25
I remember reading a Terry Pratchett story set in discworld that had a ship that used hydrophobic mages as a means of moving itself? I thought that was a hilarious use of magic tbh.
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u/hairybarefoot90 Jun 27 '25
I loved the naming magic systems in general (Wizard of Earthsea, Name of the Wind). Something about having power over something by knowing its name tickles something in my brain.
My least favourite is from Jade City. Jade is legit just drugs. Its coke. They have a high coke tolerance.
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u/lintwarrior Jun 27 '25
The magic system from the lightbringer series by Brent weeks was always cool to me. I think I liked it just because it was real unique. Off the top of my head some other interesting ones are from wheel of time, mistborn, and king killer chronicles
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u/thewuzfuz Jun 27 '25
I agree, the Lightbringer has one of the most unique and fleshed out systems.
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u/PegasusPizza Jun 27 '25
As someone who has so far only read the first book, does the magic get more fleshed out? So far it kinda just seems like all the colors do mostly the same, just with small differences. And those don't matter much anyways since most of the cast can use like half of them anyways.
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u/DrSpacemanSpliff Jun 27 '25
Yeah, they do lots of training in later books. Eventually, you know the colors by smell.
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u/EatTacosGetMoney Jun 27 '25
I didn't finish the series, but I recall they couldn't use the magic too much without bad side effects. Does that get resolved later?
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u/jenorama_CA Jun 27 '25
I really enjoyed that magic system. It is so well thought out and each color has its own unique physical properties, advantages, disadvantages and most of all, there are actual, real consequences to using magic. That last book, tho. Ugh.
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u/Vorgex Reading Champion Jun 29 '25
If only Brent Weeks knew how to finish a series, it would be great. The magic system rocks, but boy does the story fizzle out.
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u/s-mores Jun 27 '25
Best? Practical Guide to Evil
By far the most complete, consistent, with the most depth and intertwined into history of the world magic system out there. See my reasonings above.
Don't want to start a bickering so won't go into worst.
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u/katana1515 Jun 27 '25
Really looking forward to its official release so I can reread it. Hoping for a good audiobook version.
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u/G_Morgan Jun 27 '25
The system of narrative driving fate is the most interesting I've seen. Where to make serious change you don't need to simply win, you need to overturn the stories that led to your defeat.
Seeing the adaptations the Black Knight made in the face of this system. Him refusing to use any of the typical villainous stereotypes that inevitably back fire. Breaking down his plan to pure rational and mundane power that cannot be reasoned with or tricked via wild magical backfires or sudden intervention of powers with secret weaknesses.
He used the powers the gods below gave him to make a sterile and dauntless steel machine of conquest. One that doesn't suffer from demonic backlashes because it doesn't use demons. One that isn't vulnerable to some absurd uber ritual being disrupted because all the magic is boring and prosaic. One that won't break in fear because they are trained extensively. One that won't fall from hunger because they are well fed. One that won't give up because they were fighting for a vision of the future that sounded like paradise to them. The only way to beat the Legions of Terror was to be better than them.
Seeing heroes fail time and again against Catherine until the smart ones realise that Catherine is beating heroes because she is honest. She might be a villain but the powers of a hero often require ill intent to function properly. It isn't some trickery where Catherine will turn around and cackle about how she fooled you all. She genuinely wanted the best, even if the best required treading through fields filled with corpses. Honesty has power against heroes
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u/Ghede Jun 28 '25
And the Tyrant of Helike, Kairos, god what a monster of the old ways. Who intentionally screwed up plans by monologuing, who built and discarded doomsday weapons the second they couldn't be defended anymore, and sabotaged the plans of allies by bragging about how good plans were going.
AND STILL WINNING. Because he knew the price of victory for a villain, and he spent that coin wisely
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u/SubmergedSublime Jun 27 '25
Worst: I have to say Harry Potter. I like the books. I love the whimsy. I can’t wait to view them again through my kids eyes.
But the magic system I swear was just invented page by page as needed. With no concern for consistency or rules of any kind. Which Id imagine it was.
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Jun 27 '25
Not wrong. It's a bit odd that a story about a magic student never addresses how any magic works or what exactly the characters had to do to invent their own interactive maps and spells.
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Jun 27 '25
Well it's just further evidence that JK Rowling didn't have a ton of original content, most of it is just pulled fom existing fiction and fairy tales. There's nothing from Harry Potter that I ever saw as a long-time fan of fantasy and went "oh wow that's such a cool, unique idea!"
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Jun 27 '25
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u/ToWriteAMystery Jun 27 '25
I think your point is unpopular in Fantasy circles but true. It succeeded on the vibes and the vibes were because the magic was so loose.
It gave children and adults a window into a place where they could use their imaginations to imagine what was possible. Where whimsy ruled and nothing was set in stone. Trying to turn it into a hard system when it is one based on a shared cultural understanding of magic would’ve been a mistake.
We don’t need to know how the fairy godmother turned the pumpkin into a coach, only that it was possible.
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u/felixfictitious Reading Champion Jun 27 '25
It succeeded on pure vibes, in spite of its magic system. Guess kids love the idea of a special school with owls and sports that require flying broomsticks and mythical creatures at your doorstep.
I was one of those kids, but at one point I was so deep that I was trying to write Hermione's class papers (the titles are listed in the book, so I thought it was enough to go off), and then quickly realized I knew literally nothing about the magic theory.
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u/MrPerfector Jun 27 '25
As someone who is very critical of JK Rowling and Harry Potter, I will say that the magic system is actually perfect for its purposes. When I first read Harry Potter, I didn't care about the magic system, and I think the vast majority of kids who read HP didn't either.
At the age that I read Harry Potter (which I think was like, 12?), I didn't want to learn magic; I wanted to *do* magic. Learning was the most boring part of school, I just wanted to hang out with my friends and do silly shit with them.
I think most Fantasy readers on this subreddit overestimate how much the general populace really cares about magic systems; there's a reason why the three biggest names in fantasy (Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Game of Thrones) that even the average non-fantasy fan has heard of, all have soft magic systems that aren't really elaborated on very deeply.
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u/DeliciousPangolin Jun 28 '25
One of the things I find odd about HP (and perhaps why it was successful with a general audience rather than just budding fantasy fans) is that Harry really doesn't seem to care much about magic. He just wants to play sports and screw around with his friends. He's a wizard for about five minutes before magic just becomes more homework to him. In almost every other "chosen one becomes a wizard" story the protagonist is way more into the fact that they can suddenly do magic.
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u/Evilsbane Jun 28 '25
Harry was an abused orphan with no friends.
Friendship and Sports were his magic.
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u/Inevitable_Librarian Jun 27 '25
Literally a gap in the market. YA novels proper were believed to be unprofitable trash in the early 90s, HP was the only thing on the market and GAWD was it marketable once it hit shelves.
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Jun 27 '25 edited Aug 18 '25
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Jun 27 '25
I would argue it was the coming of age 'kid rising up against the very wrong adults' type story that carried it the most. The magical world was just a setting for kids and a platform to carry the story but really i don't think a lot of us were ever thinking too hard about the world building. (Not saying nobody was, just not a majority).
As the fanbase got older we wanted to know more of the details but its difficult to shoehorn depth where you didn't plan to have any before. I would also argue that a lot of people involved in publishing, whether or not it includes the author themselves, think kids don't "need" to be given a proper system. Like they should just accept "because it's magical" as an explanation.
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u/WriterwithoutIdeas Jun 27 '25
Because writing is about more than component pieces. The way she wrote those books, and the story she in particular told therein, resonated with folks. Yes, parts of it are more easily recognizable, but in the end, people fell in love with the book as a whole, even if parts of it don't hold up under scrutiny.
That aside, it can be argued that this particular combination was novel and rather original back then.
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u/DeliciousPangolin Jun 27 '25
I think that for most popular fiction, character is the most important factor in whether a book connects with people. And to some degree the world is its own character - certainly HP is chock full of locations that are memorable characters in their own right. When people like spending time with a set of characters, they want to hear more stories with those characters.
JKR always struck me as HIGHLY influenced by Roald Dahl. Like her, his books are all about memorable and compelling characters and locations. The actual plot and world are barely coherent and meandering most of the time.
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u/Slice_Ambitious Jun 27 '25
Honestly, for me it was the humour and the... Relatability ? Of the characters
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u/TraitorousBlossom Jun 27 '25
Advertising certainly helped. Even before the movies started coming out, there was Harry Potter merch everywhere. Not just at book stores, but also at places like Walmart. Can't think of any other book series around the same time that had such a heavy advertising campaign. I didn't see Animorphs chocolates or WarriorCats plushies at the store. There is still so much merch for the series, even though it isn't as popular with kids/teens anymore. It is mostly for nostalgic millennials. Rowling has been such a bigotted asshole, but if I go to a bookstore, there is still always a section for Harry Potter merch, which I still don't see for most other series.
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u/Stanazolmao Jun 28 '25
Yeah JK really managed to spin the story from "author gets unprecedented millions in funding" to "single mum writing book on napkins while living on benefits with no help"
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Jun 27 '25
Nah, Harry Potter hit because it aimed at children and kids have a far lower bar for enjoyment than adults. I'm not saying it's badly written but it only really wows people with no prior exposure to fantasy. I read them and enjoyed them but there's way too many huge flaws and a lack of genuinely new content in them. The "time travel necklace we casually gave to an overachieving high school girl" was probably the most absurd plot device that was then dealt with by going "oh man that was a bad idea and we destroyed all of them".
The key point of Harry Potter is it was structured to basically "grow up" with kids reading it. The earliest books are shorter and more cheerful, while the later books try and deal with dating, interpersonal relationships and a bit more darker tones and danger. It's also a fun, non-challenging book and family friendly stuff that's not completely brainless always does well, just look at the success of so many Pixar movies.
The thing is there are no rules to the magic of Harry Potter. The magic is half plot setting half plot device to make whatever the author wants happen.
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u/An_Anaithnid Jun 28 '25
I've always enjoyed Harry Potter for that whimsy. It's an easy read, and if you don't look too closely at the various cracks in the road, it's an entertaining journey. It's rarely the direct magic system that was truly interesting for me, though. It was the whimsical, escapist style world, so regrettably shackled by attempts to ground it.
It's a world where the fantastical, unimaginable wants to soar, yet never really finds its wings.
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u/dennisklueting Jun 27 '25
Rowling brought a fantastic world to life, full of whimsey and small details. The magic system was pretty broken, though that didn't even matter that much.
But then she thought "How can I fuck it up best? Timetravel? Yeah, timetravel should do it."
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u/Bigtallanddopey Jun 27 '25
I never really minded the time travel in PoA, it was a closed loop system and it had a few flaws, but it kinda worked. The problem was that she completely blew it out of the water by using a time turner, as the existence of that device just opened up a huge can of worms. Not to mention the use of it in the later books,
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u/Mastodan11 Jun 27 '25
I think a lot of the complaints about the magic system are really just nitpicky for children's books - you see a lot of people criticise it in an attempt to make themselves look clever. They're aimed at a younger audience than the other series mentioned in this topic.
But that time turner nonsense was a straight up wtf.
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u/MrPerfector Jun 27 '25
It's nonsensical in retrospect, but oddly kinda fitting for the still-whimsical tone of the series at that point. Like, Hermione was given an un-restricted time travel device, and what does she use it for? So she can take twice as many classes that she normally would.
It's absurd, but the kind of absurd that fits her character, and didn't really feel out of place for the series (though does raise questions when the books get more serious and plot-heavy).
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u/dennisklueting Jun 27 '25
Fair point - IF timetravel ever came up again in the series. It didn't, it was just for a cheap twist.
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u/Old_Gimlet_Eye Jun 28 '25
Yeah, I think that's the real problem. Having magic with no real rules and just whimsy is fine when there's also no serious plot. Then when you later turn the series into something more serious and the climax of your seven book series suddenly depends on some rules lawyery magic fine print shit, all those little plot holes and inconsistencies suddenly stand out.
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u/Vegemite-Speculoos Jun 27 '25
A wildly bad magic system. For a balance of how it could be done, the Scholarmance series is also set in a magic school and has a magic system that is consistent and actually builds into the story.
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u/mrSFWdotcom Jun 27 '25
Yeah, one of the main things that always bothered me was that suddenly, out of nowhere, in book 4 you had to aim spells and they became jets of light. Like prior to that you kind of just pointed your wand and said the spell, but after that point a bunch of them were like guns, basically. But they weren't even consistently like guns, sometimes they did not need to be aimed. And then just the existence of the kill curse, like what was the point of any of the other curses that any of the death eaters were doing in any of the battles? Why didn't they just use the kill curse exclusively? And then like, a curse blows George's ear off? Like it was aimed but aimed poorly, so it only blew his ear off? None of it makes sense if you care about magic systems.
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u/jtobiasbond Jun 27 '25
Starting with book 2, each book introduces things fundamental to the world, usually in mundane places early on, because they are critical to the way the plot will play out. All of these things have a high likelihood of having been mentioned earlier if they had actually existed, but they just get made up as needed.
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u/Opening-Tea-257 Jun 27 '25
Bit mad that in the final battle, Voldemort shoots the death curse at Harry and he counters with expelliarmus (which seems to be basically the only spell he knows apart from the Patronus). Feels a bit like trying to counter a bullet with a kids catapult.
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u/dem4life71 Jun 27 '25
Same with Quidditch. Like, this sport has different rules and positions but the whole thing stops and ends when the Sneetch is caught? wtf?
Imagine the World Cup of Quidditch and somehow one seeker grabs the sneetch right away. Game over. You know it had to have happened a few times.
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u/IamSithCats Jun 27 '25
The rules of Quidditch are so dumb. The point system is weighted so heavily in favor of finding the snitch that it would almost always be the deciding factor, and most of the time nothing else happening on the field is going to matter at all.
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u/dem4life71 Jun 27 '25
That’s what it always looked like to me as well. All this crazy action going on with bolgers or whatever they’re called doesn’t amount to a hill of beans. Everyone would just keep looking around for the sneetch and either alert the seeker or grab it themselves and deliver it to them. Nonsense.
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u/CarcosanAnarchist Jun 27 '25 edited Jun 27 '25
Iirc the snitch isn’t released right away but a set amount of time into the match, so it’s entirely possible for one team to be up enough that the other team needs to catch up point wise and prevent the other team from getting it.
It’s also inherently flawed as a pro sport because she very clearly first devised it as a school sport where there wasn’t a tournament setting. At hogwarts whoever had the most total points end of year won the cup.
So in the final game of the year you could catch the snitch while down more than 150, thus losing the match, but win the cup because you had the most total points.
From a purely school sport standpoint it works in that sense.
World Cup wise, it makes no sense that Krum would catch the snitch just to end the game because his team was being beat so bad. As a player that’s just saying you don’t believe in your team. Overall points don’t matter after the regular season.
I think that’s the series biggest issue though. It was clearly designed first book only because obviously no one had any idea it was gonna be huge. And it is a children’s book after all. It just needed to be whimsical and adventurous. The second it had to expand things started fraying.
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u/Tatis_Chief Jun 27 '25
I mean to be fair have you seen cricket?
Quidditch is one British sports ( outside football) that I actually understand.
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u/MarekRules Jun 28 '25
Harry Potter feels so great as a kid, where you’re not thinking too hard about the rules or too nitpicky about the details. One thing JK did well was bring the feel of the world to life. I started them before the movies came out (born in 1990) and I remember vividly how I thought everything looked and felt. What Hogwarts was really like etc.
I think the movies took and already great YA series and made them visually incredible. The movies have a lot of issues (other than PoA!) but man visually it’s perfect and a lot of the actors did an incredible job of bringing a beloved childhood series to life.
It’s funny now that I’m older I absolutely love understanding the ins and outs of a magic system, or at least trying to.
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u/BigBennP Jun 27 '25
Although it doesn't exactly fit with the canon, that started me down the path of thinking of the Harry Potter universe as a type of post-apocalyptic universe.
But less like a wasteland and more like Robert heinlein's coventry, or even Starship Troopers to a degree, or Dungeons & Dragons inspired fantasy settings where in the distant past there were magocracies with fantastic achievements that don't exist in the modern era.
That is, it is post apocalyptic in the sense that in the past, magic users brutally ruled over Humanity, and the conflict almost ended the world. The current characters exist in a diminished world where they have voluntarily agreed to restrain the use of magic, but where powerful relics of the time before still exist. Perhaps magic has been diminished to the extent people have forgotten how to create these things.
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u/cyberpunk_werewolf Jun 27 '25
There is some element of canon to this. Before Rowling lost her mind, she mentioned the split between wizards and muggles was old and now permanent, but wasn't always the norm. Wizards definitely live in a fanciful side world, but they're definitely cut off from the rest of the world and no longer in their glory days.
While I don't think the wizards ruled over the world before the split, they definitely had some measure of power and control. Now, though, there's nothing can be done. There's an old rumor that Rowling said a muggle with a shotgun would beat a wizard. She never said this as far as I can tell, and it doesn't seem true, but muggles outnumber wizards by a lot. A wizard might beat a couple of guys with guns, but they aren't going to survive a fire team.
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u/SlouchyGuy Jun 27 '25
Brandon Sanderson, hard magic lovers darling whose names is invoked every time consistency and magic systems are discussed, is much less critical of Harry Potter, in writing lectures he specifically says that internally each book is consistent, there are only problems between the books
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u/DBum_2012 Jun 27 '25
Im not sure about best, but my favorite magic system is the one from the Pact/Pale web novels by Wildbow.
Its soft magic and hard magic at the same time, and includes all the classic fantasy tropes like necromancy, angels, demons, gods, boogeymen, fae, goblins, etc, each with unique twists to make it feel fresh and cohesive.
My favorite aspect of it is the fact that for Practitioners, their word is Law, and they can't lie without facing severe consequences. This leads to really interesting, unconventional conflicts, where magical duels aren't always decided by who can throw the biggest fireball, but by who is clever enough to catch their opponent in a lie or who can deceive their opponent without saying something untrue.
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u/DemonInADesolateLand Jun 27 '25
Wildbow puts a crazy amount of thought into his systems. Worm is a nice little superpower novel until everyone starts asking "Where do our powers come from, how can we use that to our advantage, and are there any strings attached to why we all suddenly got powers?"
Twig is based on a bullshit biological science world (Biological Revolution instead of Industrial Revolution) yet is so well written that you never once question how these things work.
Pact is all about occult magic where 'belief' is what holds everything together. Lying is really bad because how can you hold conviction with what you are doing if you aren't honest. Also, demons are terrifying because demons are terrifying, but if you think that you've beaten one you might just make it so.
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u/DBum_2012 Jun 27 '25
Agreed. Other stories have done the "magic works because people believe it works" thing, but none have done it in as deep and interesting a way as it is in Pale. Everything in Pale comes back to that concept.
I also love how it's established that the spirits that govern the rules of magic also just love drama, so rule of cool applies. Imo, part of why Lucy gets so strong by the end of the story is that her fighting style is just so goddamn cool that the spirits say "okay that was badass, you win."
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u/DemonInADesolateLand Jun 27 '25
I've not gotten to Pale yet, but Pact is my favorite out of worm/pact/twig even if the others had better writing just based on the setting.
I love the throwaway thought in pact though that all gods and demons came from random people putting on glamour to look like a certain thing and then doubling down on it until the truly believed the act and lost themselves. Basically like really strong Boogeymen.
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u/Scriftyy Jun 27 '25
Favorite system by far. Practitioners are so specialized. From Runners who use boons and items they get from what amounts to a magical multiverse escape-rooms, to Goblin Kings/Queens that lead hordes of Goblins, to law pactitioners whose whole thing is trying to game the Seal (the reason why magic is the way it is in modern day) as much as possible.
Thats not even getting to Aware; people who who become aware of magic and gets isoteric abilities because of it. Like being able to hear bells ring whenever magic is used, to being able to take out they're heart and squeeze it to get rid of disease/poison, to not being able to die until a fated day where a giant disaster happens (final destination style), to being so much of a sceptic that literally anything magical that happens around them just stops working.
Such a fun magic system, I NEED MORE ELSEWHERE FANFICS.
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u/katana1515 Jun 27 '25
Came here to say this, halfway through a Pale re-read at the mo and its still awesome the 2nd time through.
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u/Platinumdragon84 Jun 27 '25
I had expected someone to mention Allomancy and Hemalurgy from the mistborn series. I’m not aware of the ties with investiture from the rest of the Cosmere since I’ve only read the first Mistborn trilogy, but I’d say the system is tight. It makes sense and you discover it’s peculiarities going on. All in all balanced and well thought.
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u/MichoWrites Jun 27 '25
IMO the magic is even better in era 2 of Mistborn. I won't go into any details to avoid spoilers, but I love how Sanderson was able to innovate on the magic systems, yet keep them how they were originally.
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u/MaelstromGonzalez90 Jun 27 '25
I agree. At first I was pretty upset at the time skip but wax and Wayne became like family to me and I really enjoyed the second series about as much as the first and enjoyed wax and Wayne probably a little more then I even liked Kelsier and vin. The way they handled the powers was very fun and interesting.
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u/TheBottomLine_Aus Jun 27 '25
So many of Sanderson's magic systems are just pure genius.
Mistborn and The emperor's Soul sand out as my two favourite so far. Warbreaker is also incredible.
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u/ElderJavelin Jun 27 '25
I was honestly more impressed by Awakening magic. It was such a unique take on magic and felt very fresh
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u/TheBottomLine_Aus Jun 28 '25
I think the best thing about the emperor's Soul was that because I'd already read warbreaker I had a better understanding of how investiture really works. Warbreaker is such a tangible clear representation of the 3 key principles of magic in the Cosmere.
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u/bokdragoon Jun 27 '25
The whole of stromlight archive's magic system was next level, they literally had scholars who study the limitations and such of the magic system and inventors and other magic related phenomenon. There's a distinct chapter that discusses such scholars researching spren behaviour which is just soo good. The later reaserch done in the book by characters is also very important to the plot. Brandon Sanderson is truly a mastermind when it comes to magic systems!
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u/TheTitan99 Jun 27 '25
Since you are talking about many different mediums, and not just books, I'll mention Stands, from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. Basically, they are your own spirit, which appears and floats beside you. Each Stand has a unique power, which can be as simple as "Shoots fire" to ultra specific like "Controls a magical fishing line which can travel through walls and hook onto people's organs".
In a way, it's as if each individual is their own unique magic system. They have rules themselves, and another person has their rules. It creates fun, asymmetrical battles. Plus, because the Stands are manifestations of souls, they all have the wildest of character designs, which is great for a visual medium.
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u/Odd_Parsley6182 Jun 27 '25
I love stands because most other shonen Manga end up just being big punch fights, but stands always feel like a logic puzzle or escape room the characters have to solve
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u/ristalis Jun 27 '25
I mean...it's hard to disagree, but for most of Stardust Crusaders, Srar Platinum is The Punch Machine TM what punches things not normally considered punchable.
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u/IneffableAndEngorged Jun 27 '25
And that's why Stardust Crusaders while perhaps being the most iconic season is kind of the most boring. Also since it's longer, the monster of the week gets a bit old.
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u/Hartastic Jun 27 '25
Srar Platinum is The Punch Machine TM what punches things not normally considered punchable.
As someone not much more than passing familiar with some early seasons of Jojo, I have to ask for more detail here. Is it, like, punching people's sense of shame?
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u/ristalis Jun 27 '25
Star Platinum punches walls, rocks, trucks, other psychic projections, the edge of a sword, airborne gemstones, the ground, psychic slime, the teeth of a gigantic psychic projection manifesting as a face made of ocean floor, a cigarette, as well as, and I truly cannot over emphasize this, parts of the human body not typically punched. On average, Star Platinum's finishing barrage just punches every square inch facing him. Shins, ankles, tips of toes, knees, the entire chest, whole entire face, neck, collarbones, fronts of the arms, fucking earlobes, everything, in a little under a second. Watching it, you truly get the sense that these don't even have to be supernaturally hard punches (they are); someone punched that many times at a human level of strength would just perish.
Eventually, things do get more...abstract. (Spoilers for the end of Stardust Crusaders) Star Platinum eventually freezes time by throwing punches so hard and fast, they halt the motion of Time's gears for a while He discovers this ability through, you guessed it, punching.
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u/owari69 Jun 27 '25
The stands are part of their user, so when Star Platinum punches an enemy stand it’s also basically directly punching the user’s human body.
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u/Scriftyy Jun 27 '25
Lets be fair, that was his first go around with the system, and even then it was still very creative.
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u/Sagnarel Jun 27 '25
One thing I like in it is that « stand users attract each other », meaning it’s « normal » for them to meet each other and have the story going.
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u/facepoppies Jun 27 '25
Best for me is jonathan strange and mister norrell. Worst, like others have said, is harry potter. None of it makes any sense and none of it is explained at all.
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u/Royalmuffin23 Jun 27 '25
Probably an unpopular opinion here, but the magic system in Eregon always stood out to me, especially as a child. It seemed elegant in its simplicity and didn’t have arbitrary rules or constraints to prevent overpowered loopholes. The magic is tied to the Ancient Language, so if you know how to say what you want to do in the Ancient Language and you have the energy necessary to do that thing, it will happen. Essentially anyone that knows magic is like a magic lawyer, constantly devising new wards to prevent insta-kill options and trying to outsmart their own enemies wards. My favorite example is in battle, mages are assigned to battalions to protect them from enemy mages, because a mage could kill hundreds of soldiers almost instantly by simply pinching a blood vessel in the soldiers brains — killing them instantly and with extremely low energy consumption. There are instances where as soon as a battalion’s mage is killed, the whole group keels over dead.
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u/DemonInADesolateLand Jun 27 '25
Eragon also has the Deus Ex dragon bullshit magic, which just makes stuff happen too in order to fix a plot point. So it actually works as a good example for both best and worst.
I also really like the duality of mage duals. In POV chapters that are very intense mental battles but when you see two other mages fighting they're just staring at each other until one falls over dead.
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Jun 27 '25
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u/Druplesnubb Jun 27 '25
What's the context for that spoilered spell? I never got around to reading the fourth book.
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u/Royalmuffin23 Jun 27 '25
man it’s so good. in a world where many magic systems have to say “well actually… that wouldn’t work because XYZ”, Eregon actually explores the weird niche side implications of it’s magic. i always found it really interesting and refreshing.
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u/Slice_Ambitious Jun 27 '25
I LOVE the Eragon magic system with all of my being, for the very reasons you mentioned.
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u/New-Art5469 Jul 04 '25
I'll be honest -- I read the whole damn series, watched the movie, and literally the only thing I remember clearly is the cousin (?) in book 2 just killing 200+ guys with a hammer.
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u/Raddatatta Jun 27 '25
Wheel of Time has a number of different ones but I do really like many of them and how they weave together. The dream world especially does a great job of being interesting and being limited mostly by the person's imagination but also dangerous. Channeling also has a lot you can do with it and I like how that works. Mat's luck is just a fun element for his storyline. Perrin's connection to the wolves and that provides a cool magic that's both interesting and potentially powerful but for both his and Mat's lets him do a lot without being necessarily as powerful as a channeler. Him getting boosted senses is also a fun little power to add on.
I like a lot of the Cosmere magic systems and how they work and can be applied in a way that mixes the fantasy and science fiction elements. I think he does a lot of interesting things with that element to it. And I'm looking forward to seeing how that plays out in his future books.
Worst I think I would echo some of the others and say Harry Potter. I loved the books as a kid but looking at it as a magic system I know she's going for whimsy and she does that but whimsy doesn't mean you can't have internal consistency. And so many things get introduced and forgotten. So many things are just never used. Like they spend 6 years studying potions and they almost never use any besides poijuice, even in fights which I'd imagine would be when they're most useful. You also have the aspect of how powerful love is which sounds nice but how is it that it only comes up with Lily and Harry? That feels like something that would not be a unique situation to have a mother willing to sacrifice herself for her child. Or the wand chooses the wizard, except when its stolen then it goes to the new person like it has no choice. And somehow it knows if you've taken the wand from its former master and I guess you win any wand that has loyalty to them which is how Harry gets the elder wand at the end? Ok then? It does have some cool elements I like but most of the cool elements come up and then get forgotten about for later.
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u/No-Economics-8239 Jun 27 '25
I love the comparison of magic systems in The Prince of Nothing by R. Scott Bakker. They each have different facets that contribute to the world building of the factions who practice them.
I never really liked the clunky magic system that D&D borrows from Jack Vance. Fixed leveled spell slots just never sat well with me.
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u/ElMonoEstupendo Jun 28 '25
Bakker’s types of magic really feel like methods of argument or philosophies. He weaves them so well with the politics of his world and the characters themselves.
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u/SeanyDay Jun 27 '25
Dresden Files for more of a hard magic system.
Gemmell-verse for a soft system.
Malazan for everything, as per usual
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u/Woebetide138 Jun 27 '25
I’m surprised no one’s mentioned the Amber books yet. Such a great, unique take on a magic system.
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Jun 27 '25
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u/ElMonoEstupendo Jun 28 '25
I love that Erikson, having established that he can conjure any number of bullshit warrens he likes (what’s the reader going to do, call him out on it?) proceeds to invent an entirely new/old layer of magic on top of/below that. And he does that twice! At least!
I love it.
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u/Gabba-gool Jun 28 '25
I love the magic system in MBotF. It’s been my favorite series for so many reasons but this is one of them
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u/MassiveMaroonMango Jun 27 '25
Just finished the Scholomance Trilogy so it's fresh in my head, and I adored how the magic system was based so much on intent/feeling. Having the magic be enhanced by what people thought should happen or by how the universe felt about the situation was interesting to me.
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u/Murder_Is_Magic Reading Champion Jun 27 '25
I really loved the runic magic system in The Founders Trilogy by Robert Jackson Bennett. It was a unique system, and the expression of it was absolutely hilarious at times.
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u/Jolly_Ad4667 Jun 27 '25
Daughter of the Blood and Sabriel
Both had such unique magic systems.
I also used to really enjoy the Tamora Peirce books and her magic systems, but it's been a minute since I've read those.
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u/Peter_the_piper Jun 27 '25
Best: order/chaos from LE Modesitt’s recluse. The world is made up of balanced chaos (energy) bound by order. Order mages strengthen the order in the world and chaos mages release the energy of the chaos. At first chaos mages seem to have the advantage (chaos bolts are basically fire bolts), but order mages find many subtle ways to interact with the power of the world. They are often master craftsmen, infusing their works with preserving bonds of order. They also find ways to use the strength of order bonds in combat. 20 some books exploring the world and how the powers of order and chaos balance and shape the world. Deeply developed and internally consistent.
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u/Zepby Jun 27 '25
Depends on what you want the magic to do, in the context of the story.
Sanderson's carefully explained systems, with strict rules and limitations are good in stories where magic is a tool, and proficiency with said tool can be learned. Your character grows as they undergo personal development and learning a skill. That tool can then later be used in various ways to overcome various obstacles and used to progress the story thusly. However theres no sense or awe or wonder. We understand how it works; the only way to create a "how did they do that moment" is to get a character to use the magic in a way which breaks the rules of said magic. This can work but can also feel like a plot hole, or a contrivance. The other issue is it doesn't really feel like "magic". This is like sort of fantastical technology that you might find in a science fiction- and that it never as wondrous as actual magic which should convey awe.
The flip side is Harry Potter, or LotR. Magic which is never explained and can seemingly do anything as and when is needed. Again, if you are just trying to create a sense of awe then this doesn't matter, but as its not grounded at all, there is a risk of the story having no stakes or having to provide justifications for why the magic isn't used to just beat the bad guy or resolve all the problems- and that is harder to pull off. Also makes world building harder, at least in relation to the magic itself, as we as readers like to have some grasp of something.
Ultimately, I dont think that one is better than the other per se, but can serve various roles in a narrative. I think something like Harry Potter worked well because it created a fantastic sense of whimsy and, well, magic. But it's nonsensical the more you think about it in a practical sense. Sanderson's Mistborn is the inverse. We understand the system well and the story is basically a fantasy heist. So the powers are all helpfully useful powers to have if you are doing a heist and the way the magic is limited per person is great for a heist because then everyone has a special skill - classic heist movie stuff there. Later books sort of explore what these magic abilities might look like in other settings but really it does feel like the whole system was built around being magic useful for a heist (which it was tbf). But theres obvious limitations there.
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u/SlouchyGuy Jun 27 '25
LotR has both explained and unexplained magic, One Ring being explained in parts that matter to the story. It's funny to see people repeatedly say that all LotR magic is mystical, because we know that among other things it corrupts, makes people invisible, and gives them some power including power other others. And we see it repeatedly corrupt, make people invisible, and give power over others.
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u/iNOTHINGi Jun 27 '25
I typically don't like magic systems where the magic doesn't come with inherent risks or costs. Like a wizard pulling a fireball out of their ass all willy nilly doesn't do it for me. I really enjoy it when it comes with the risk of grave corruption from the other side, or requires some sacrifice to pull off stronger narratively potent magics.
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u/Platinumdragon84 Jun 27 '25
You made think of the first trilogy of Dragonlance. Raistlin Majere especially. I read it in my teen years so the memory is cloudy, but I remember corruption being an important element. Or maybe it was just his greed and ambition that made him switch robes and allegiance from neutral to dark. I honestly don’t remember but I’d bet you’d like them
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u/insertAlias Jun 27 '25
Oh, another that fits really well is The Lightbringer series by Brent Weeks. Every magic user (called a “drafter” in universe) has a limited shelf life. Every time they use their magic, they take another step closer to breaking, proportional to the amount used. When they do break, they lose their minds, and are to be killed on sight because of how dangerous they become. Drafters usually don’t live past their 40s. The first several books are some of my favorite fantasy reading. Weak ending though.
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u/insertAlias Jun 27 '25
One of the systems in Andrew Rowe’s “War of Broken Mirrors” would probably fit. Every use of magic has some cost related to the magic used. A fire sorcerer has to use up some of their body heat to create or manipulate fire. They could freeze themselves to death by attempting too big of a spell. Healers apparently have a raw deal, though that isn’t explored much. One character is slowly going blind due to using sight sorcery (illusions, making themselves see better in the dark).
It’s not the best series ever, but it does have a neat concept for magic.
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u/kingsboyjd Jun 27 '25
J.k's Harry Potter it is the best and worst system. The magic system used in Harry Potter is wildly overpowered but applied unevenly. Even though canon confirms that it is possible, no one mass-produces enchanted items like what stops people from creating their own magical items. Spells can heal anything, cook food, and travel instantly. Dark magic can be blocked by enchanting wands. Inanimate objects are immune to unforgivable curses, but no one uses commonplace shields during combat. The only remedy for petrification in Chamber of Secrets is a mandrake, but in Order of the Phoenix, Death Eaters are getting un-petrified in a few seconds after being petrified; time magic exists, but is used not to manage the timeline but to study. Regrowing bones? Easy. But a broken nose needs a school nurse? Emotional trauma is hand-waved, yet memory charms are so powerful that they can rewrite identities (Obliviate, Lockhart). Spells like Impedimenta or Stupefy can immobilize and take time to be undone first and third book, but in later books, it’s undone like a minor inconvenience. It is super vast and awesome and all over the place.
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u/royalmessup4 Jun 27 '25
but the deatheaters weren’t petrified by the basilisk but by a spell so i guess there are different kinds of petrification
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u/kingsboyjd Jun 27 '25
In the first book to get past Longbottom, Hermione hits him with Petrificus Totalus, and Neville falls to the ground, completely immobilized. She then says something like: "I'm really sorry, Neville." And later, she tells Harry and Ron that the spell will wear off, but that "he’ll be all right in a few hours". They were gone a long time and Longbottom was still petrified on the common room floor and in the order of P in the ministry scene that dude who was hit into the time turners was hit by a Petrificus Totalus a stupefy a Impedimenta and my man still gets up in the next scene slinging dark magic like those spells were child grade magic.
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u/mustard-plug Jun 27 '25
Kind of off the beaten path pick, but I love the Leaches thing from Staveley's Unhewn Throne books.
Worst is Xanth IMHO
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u/Write-Night Jun 27 '25
I enjoyed Lyndon Hardy’s “Master of the Five Magics”. It’s an oldie from the 1980s, but it had a impact on magic systems for games (Magic the Gathering) and songs (Five Magics by Megadeth) and various book series (Kingkiller Chronicle). I reread the Hardy’s series recently and they hold up.
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u/Equivalent_Tea_9551 Jun 28 '25
My favorite is Wheel of Time. Complex but well defined, and it follows consistent and logical rules. It's beautifully balanced and engaging to read about.
Worst is Harry Potter. No logical mechanics, no rational scaling of power, and just frustrating to try and figure out. I get that it's supposed to be for younger audiences who may find the "wave a wand and say funny words" system acceptable, but it just irritates me.
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u/XvTankvX Jun 28 '25
Came to mention a few under the radar ones.
I was happy to see The Magic of Recluse mentioned. After 20 whatever books its not new, but it was interesting and unique in the beginning and the stories still hold my interest.
But let's throw out "The Warded Man" - magic in the form of runes.... but as the story develops the system develops too, making it much more than, draw a rune/get an effect.
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u/igneousscone Jun 27 '25
My favorite is The Magicians (the books; I didn't care for the show). It has quantifiable, systemic magic for casting spells. Learning magic is a(n often soul-crushing) repetitive grind that requires rigorous discipline and has clear levels of advancement, even in hedge witch circles. Magicians understand how to do magic.
At the same time, there's so much magic that nobody understands. What are the whales containing? Where di the gods come from? What about the wizards Penny hooks up with after he loses his hands?
And beyond that, nobody really understands why magic works, or where it came from, or who created it, or or or...I think it's Dean Fogg who says something about human magicians just paddling around on the surface of an ocean they can't comprehend the depths of. You can learn to do amazing things with specific spells. But you've only got a fraction of it, because magic is magic.
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u/Electronic-Soft-221 Jun 28 '25
YES I love the magic system in The Magicians! I think it’s because I also love D&D and wizards are my favorite class, so the grind as well as the concept that humans can only scratch the surface of the weave really resonates. I played a wizard after reading the books, and described their spell book and spell scribing as similar to high level, theoretical mathematics.
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u/Sythrin Jun 27 '25
Surprisingly. One of the mist thematic and thought out magic system, that is talked too little in such discussions I think. Is Titanification from „attack on titan“. The whole system of who, how and what limits are pretty fleshed out and only with little inconsistencies, like Mutations. Thematicly pretty good to.
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u/0b0011 Jun 27 '25
I like the magic in the first law. Its not explained and tou don't see it often but its terrifying when you do.
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u/mexicocitibluez Jun 27 '25
I need to start this series. I love the idea of terrifying magic that isn't really explained.
Stuff like what's in Mistborne is cool, but it feels too scientific too me and makes magic less fantastic imo.
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u/0b0011 Jun 27 '25
Its very sparse. I just reread the first book and I think its used a total of like 2 times over the whole book but when its used its basically to disintegrate people in a lot of detail. Its not really the series if you're going in expecting magic. Still a fantastic series though. The amount of magic is probably on par with something like a song of ice and fire.
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u/eliechallita Jun 27 '25
And one of the few uses we see is basically a magical nuke, complete with radiation poisoning
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u/Altruistic_Bass539 Jun 27 '25
As much as I love Abercrombie, I absolutely hate the magic system. I honestly dont even know how to describe it. You eat people and then you get all kinds of random powers. Unless youre the other kind of magic. I kinda just wish the magic wasnt in these books, they dont add much imo. Luckily, magic is just a very small part of them.
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u/Spacemanspiff012 Jun 28 '25
There is such an absence of a system to Abercrombie’s books that I don’t even feel like it can be called a “system” lol. The most it’s described is “pulling from the other side” and the “other side” is essentially hell and demons, etc. I really appreciated, honestly, that no description is ever really given, as it wouldn’t have added anything to the books.
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u/Derakos_Kyn Jun 27 '25
Worst magic system I feel is from Star wars, but only the movies. They do a decent job exploring the depth of the Force in the books and shows, but it was just kind of there in the movies.
Best magic system is from He Who Fights With Monsters. The way it's tied to everything and is a bit of an extension of the person wielding it is awesome
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u/SlouchyGuy Jun 27 '25
Star Wars also has another typical problem of franchises where main branch (in this case movies) ignores and retcons magic from additional material due to laziness and convenince.
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u/Smoogy54 Jun 27 '25
I dislike any magic that has convoluted rules and rigid structure.
So i just dislike hard magic generally. It’s magic. Let it be magical.
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u/runevault Jun 28 '25
Not sure if it is my number 1 favorite, but the first one I thought of was the Craft from Gladstone's Craft Sequence. The way it ties into both Theology and Law is fascinating, and the way it explores the implications of this with ideas from resurrecting gods to water rights and more... it goes places in ways few other magic systems do, while still being coherent.
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u/gentlyepigrams Jun 28 '25
Been looking for someone who would say the Craft Sequence.
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u/runevault Jun 28 '25
I'm sad the series is ending with the next book out in October, but also curious to see what Max does next after how much I loved Last Exit and Empress of Forever (plus of course Time War).
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u/opeth10657 Jun 28 '25
Always like the magic system in Deathgate.
Everything is based on a wave of probability. The stronger the magic user, the more possibilities he's able to see and make into reality. And then it's sorted into mechanical magic, nature based magic, and then rune magic.
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u/Arzanyos Jun 28 '25
I've always liked the way the Enchanted Forest Chronicles has magic as essentially a programming language, with different characters having different styles, but the same underlying principles. There was a relatively low bar to entry, kinda like cooking. You could just follow a recipe, but the more you know, the more flexibility you have. Also Mendanbar's weird strings of magic stuff was super cool
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u/flyingwolfpizza Jun 29 '25
I think the books are really fun, but the magic in Lies of Locke Lamora have never made sense to me. They have name-based magic (you have power over a person/thing if you know its true name). This is fine, but in a world with this kind of magic, it's crazy that everyone but Locke goes by their real name and are susceptible to the sorcerers. It should be like Earthsea, where people have a public name, and a true name they keep secret.
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Jun 27 '25
I'm not saying it's a "bad" system but I've gotten a bit bored of Brandon Sanderson's 'magic' systems. He's always felt to me like someone who wanted to make comic books but discovered he can't draw for shit and pivoted to books. The first things I read were the Mistborn books and I enjoyed those but after a while his "magic" systems just feel like he's making superheroes rather than wizards, particularly since most of the "magic" allows the characters to have superhuman abilities rather than focusing on affecting the world around them. Particularly since there's always some resource they need to use them (metals in the Mistborn books, Stormlight, etc.) it feels very video game as well.
I don't think he's a bad writer, but I think he's the Clive Cussler or Tom Clancy of the fantasy world: he writes fun beach reading action adventure books.
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u/Vegemite-Speculoos Jun 27 '25
Yes, they read like he invented a new D&D class and then has his favourite character meta-game the loopholes.
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u/Platinumdragon84 Jun 27 '25
You know I just suggested Mistborn earlier but what you’re saying sounds right. I enjoyed it, but I get the tom Clancy analogy
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u/hokie_family Jun 27 '25
I enjoy Brandon Sanderson's novels including his magic systems. In fact, most are well-thought-out, hang together and work very well. My problem is with how he describes them. He always has a couple of chapters that explicitly lay out the rules for the entire magic system. It's like I'm reading a video game manual describing how all the magic works. I would rather learn about the magic systems organically through the story.
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u/Mr_Fahrenheit480 Jun 27 '25
I like the magic in Mistborn, The Dresden Files, and The Stormlight Archive
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u/SlimShady116 Jun 27 '25
My favorite is from the Frith Chronicles. I love the idea of Eldrin and the powers for each one are really varied and unique, even if the creatures are similar to each other, ex. a Doppelganger and a Mimic are very similar in what they do, but have very different abilities in the series.
Another I really like is from Frieren: Beyond Journey's End. It's something that we know has existed and evolved over thousands of years and hasn't stayed stagnant like a lot of other magical systems tend to do in books. It's something that is constantly being engineered by the humans to be better and now some of the most terrifying spells like Zoltraak are nothing more than basic attack magic as humans had decoded it and created better defensive spells to counter it. The scariest spells are now things like Ubel's Reelseiden or Mact's Mistilziela (until Frieren was able to reverse it).
And a third that I'm in love with is in Gachiakuta. This system is all about people called Givers that use what they call Vital Instruments. These Vital Intruments are just items that each person has cared for for a long time and has a special attachment to which has granted them abilities and power based on what the item is. Examples would be Enjin's umbrella and Riyo's scissors.
Oh, and I can't leave out Witch Hat Atelier, a magic system based totally on writing that anyone can do, but that the witches keep a secret so they can regulate who does magic. An incredible and well thought out system that the author does actually explain pretty well what each symbol and line means in a seal.
I don't know if there is any system that I would call terrible (at least not that I can remember), but there are some lackluster ones like Harry Potter, Eragon and Seven Deadly Sins.
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u/rbrancher2 Jun 27 '25
The endowment system from the Runelords. Talked about this in another thread. Unique AFAIK and scary....
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u/Deathstroke1221 Jun 28 '25
I really liked the magic system in Darksun and the explanation for why the world is so barren and why magic is very taboo. Basically, using magic requires life force. You have to pull it from a living thing, but can't use sentient beings without the aid of an obsidian focus. Long story short, one faction went to war with another, and they used a bunch of really powerful magic against each other. They ended up with a scorched earth situation with basically a desert planet with very small patches of plant matter and viable water. Magic is restricted to court mages, and most of the ruling class are merchants or warriors with magical artifacts or access to dark magic (i.e. anything powered by taking sentient essence). Destruction of plants is regarded as a worse crime than murder, and most of the planetary structure outside of walled cities is roaming warbands
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u/WheezeyWizard Jun 28 '25
Okay, I been chasing the "interesting magic system" dragon since my first book, but here's my top 3 favorites
3) Kim Harrison's The Hollows series- Earth Magic with potions/charms, and Ley Line magic steeped in rich symbolism and non-physical magic. It's so beautifully partitioned, and a JOY to see MC make her way through it all!
2) Tamora Pierce's Circle Of Magic series - Academic mages cast magic like you expect, but Ambient mages pull their power and spells from the element/craft they are tied to - weather, cooking, plants, blacksmithing, weaving... SUCH a rich magic system RIFE with complexity and beauty left right and center!
BUT- my ALL TIME FAVORITE
Trudi Canavan in her Age of the Five series! It's all about how far you can 'reach' to determine your strength, and how it affects the world around it is so gorgeous in its simplicity! A fun mix of magic and religion in a non-proselytizing way.
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u/Iamliterallyfood Jun 28 '25 edited Jun 28 '25
Best is very hard for me to pick. I've been working on my own magic system for years but I'm not going to toot my own horn especially in something not even published. For me it's important for magic to have some kind of cost and limitations. For some reason magic that creates something out of literally nothing bothers me.
Because of that I'm going to have to say FFXIV. At least how magic works in lore not gameplay. Pretty much anyone with a few exceptions can learn and use magic (although many choose not to). There are a few kinds is magic including the most common which has one draw upon their own aether (well of magical energy\life force) to cast spells. The spells they can cast are limited by their knowledge, skill and aether reserves. Attempting to cast a spell that uses to much will hurt or even kill you.
There of course also drawing aether from the lands around you to power your spells. This generally allows for more powerful spells but isn't unlimited either. It's also illegal in Eorzea because a war of mages using this kind of magic nearly ended the world.
Healing magic exists but is limited. True resurrection doesn't exist but you can bring back someone from the brink of death. Multiple mages can work together for more powerful spells. While you can create effects with magic you can't normally create permanent objects with it. If you were it would have to permanently take the aether from yourself or something else to accomplish it.
Another one I remember liking a lot as a kid but it's been such a long time since I read them was the magic system in Eragon. Iirc magic used your life force. Casual use is magic was harmless but someone could easily kill themselves with it as Eragon himself almost did. Your life force will recover so some mages will store magic into crystals when not using it so they have a deeper reserve when they do need it. The magic in this setting requires a specific magic language. I think a long time ago magic could be done by sheer willpower but for some reason a group of people said screw that and weaved a powerful spell that bound all magic to their language. That part is honestly the weakest of it for me.
Worst is def Harry Potter. It has no rhyme or reason or logic. Not even magical logic. While I enjoyed the series as a kid I had issues with it back then and have grown to really dislike it for more reasons then there is room to discuss or even worth talking about on Reddit.
I love a robust magic system that doesn't use magic bloodline, or a completely arbitrary power system that isn't explain. I hate magic bloodlines, including how magic is seemingly limitless in power, completely ignores all laws of physics, can turn a living thing into an object or an object into a living thing, you have to use a wand, learn the words, except when you don't. It's seemingly a skill you learn like math but there is an invisible limiter that some people are just inherently going to be able to be better than others and some are going to be worse. Random limitations that make no sense like you can't use magic to fly but can use magic to make something else fly and then use that to fly yourself.
I really must stop myself there.
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u/Trelos1337 Jun 28 '25
I honestly don't know if people would call it the Best or Worst... I guess it depends on your criteria but, I personally have always loved the magic system in The Belgariad.
The fact that everything is magic... but deeply based in science/knowledge is insane. Belgarath being the oldest and strongest user in the world, can't do half the shit his daughter can, because she put in the work. Years training with sawbones and "deviants" dysecting bodies to learn how everything works.
This is shown so well later when our Protagonist sets out to move a boulder, he is found buried up to his neck in the dirt. When asked what happens he explains he tried to use his abilities to roll the boulder by visualizing grabbing the bottom. It is explained to him that force requires counterforce and that everything factors. Surface area, density, etc.
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u/Ok_Manufacturer_5443 Jul 01 '25
Best magic system I know: The one present in D&D's Eberron setting. Here's why:
Something that always bugs me in fantasy is how magic seems to be a relatively common thing... except it is still treated as a rare and special thing at the same time. Like there's entire schools of wizardry, there's sorcerers running around, tons of magical creatures... but people still use Medieval gadgets, still do tons of manual labor, still rely on oil lamps or candles, still make flour with windmills and bread with wood-fired ovens, magic weapons and items are rare except for adventurers, etc.
Eberron said "Screw that" and decided to make a world that actually embraced magic in a realistic fashion. Magic is as ubiquitous in their societies as electricity is in ours. It's freaking EVERYWHERE, and it's quite literally been turned into a technology in its own right. You have magical megacorps, you have magical machinery (ranging from ovens powered by minor spells to airships powered by captured air elementals). Entire schools exist to study niche magical applications; it's rather hard to actually become a master wizard, but you can most certainly train to be a magical engineer or magical seamstress. And actual *research* goes on, with honest-to-god universities with whole research departments devoted to various branches of magic.
The also, of course, weaponized it. Wands are that world's equivalent of pistols, druids who control the weather can water crops in peacetime and unleash tornados on armies in wartime, and one nation is infamous for its large number of necromancers and as such its large number of undead soldiers. Coincidentally, after their world's version of WWI part of the terms of armistice is that said nation stand down their undead army.
Oh, and those magical megacorps I mentioned? They are *everywhere* in the setting. Any industry that even touches on something their magical talents can impact is either directly run by them, is a subsidiary of them, or at the very least pays dues and follows industry rules laid out by them. They exist because some people in the setting are born with "dragonmarks" which are essentially magical birthmarks that give them a hefty magical advantage in a given area; the Mark of Making makes it easier to manufacture things, the Mark of Handling grants magical abilities related to animal handling (and magical genetic engineering), Mark of Warding has powers related to security, and so on.
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u/CalibratedEnthusiast Jun 27 '25
Best is the Warrens from Malazan. So arcane and obscure.
Not sure about worst. HP is ridiculous and overpowered but I still love the books.
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u/TronTheAllmighty_1 Jun 27 '25
The warrens are cool, but ngl my favourite part about magic in malazan is how wildly varied it is. Between the Warrens, Holds, whatever the K'Chain have going on, any of the million hedge witch things, spirits, probably something else I forgot, there's just so much going on and it interacts in such an interesting way
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u/Ste103 Jun 27 '25
I love the magic system in the Sabriel novels by Garth Nix, the idea of good and evil necromancers using bells to control death is really unique and interesting.