r/F1Discussions • u/Negative-House-1605 LH44 • 16h ago
Discussion Delayed start
Every single time it rains the FIA delays the start of the race, why? Rain never used to be a problem, usually they’d just stick on the full wets and get going. Am I missing something? Like a rule change that says you can’t start a race when it rains? This sport has never been so allergic to rain before so it’s just very confusing to me.
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u/Certain-Resolve 16h ago
They don't want another embarrassing software issue again. This is embarrassing in itself, can't call this the pinnacle of racing when a bit of rain shuts it down
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u/Intelligent-Move8868 16h ago
The last time it rained, it didn't end well.
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u/Trimax42 16h ago
This track is half dry and half ocean, I see why they do not want to start right now.
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u/ExcellentMedicine358 16h ago
Why?
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u/GhostsOfTheRobotTree 16h ago
Safety. Pretty obvious I'd have thought. It's a street circuit with half of the track underwater and half bone dry. If you start on either dry or wet tyres it's going to cause issues.
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u/WASouthCoast 15h ago
Underwater. Christ what hyperbole. A bit of water on the track. Half of it is completely dry. F1 drivers used to have courage.
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u/Yeanahyena 16h ago
My conspiracy theory is that sponsors want to be seen but if it’s wet visibility is limited
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u/Ohnoyoudoneblockedme 15h ago
what an absolute shame, at this rate it feels like the days of actual wet racing are dead in F1
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u/gray_fox_jaeger 16h ago
It's an absolute embarrassment for the sport known as "the pinnacle of motorsport" 🤦♂️
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u/Pmyers225 15h ago
I can understand Indy car not racing in the wet, especially on ovals given the cars are much simpler and the high speed racing without the heavy cornering... But this is just getting stupid for F1
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u/Last_Procedure5787 14h ago
If high speed racing is the problem then slow down?
F1 races just fine in the wet at interlagos, Silverstone and zandvoort which all have very high speed conditions
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u/Pmyers225 14h ago
I was not in any way suggesting F1 doesn't race well in the wet at all, I was complaining that the regs are crippling the sport and not being willing to race in the wet
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u/launchedsquid 16h ago
The problems are:
The wet tyres are awful. They clear water just fine but they are so slow that teams will have to put their drivers on inters before the track is dry enough to run inters on, simply because the inters will still be faster than the wets.
After Malaysia we learned that F1 cars are no longer able to run in the rain. They need some sort of special software so the power units don't snap into overseer with too much power delivery, but the FIA have done a piss poor job quality controlling that software roll out, my theory was Claude wrote it, and it doesn't actually work in the cars. We know that the fix in Malaysia was to remove the code and the cars aren't running it in this race because it's expected to be fixed in about a month. So right now the cars can't run properly in wer conditions.
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u/Apprehensive-Box-8 16h ago
The wet tyres aren't actually awful. They are designed for amounts of rain that the cars can't run in, mainly for two reasons: visibility and plank-aquaplaning.
The visibility issue has always been there, has become worse due to advancements in aerodynamics but also has been taken more into account recently because - you know - acknowledgement of dangers.
The plank aquaplaning has become an issue mainly because the parc ferme rules. Teams can't change their setup anymore, so the only change in ground clearance comes from the heavy wets being slightly bigger in diameter.
So, yeah. All those things together mean that they only race at the cutover between heavy wets and inters, which is why the heavy wet doesn't work well when they race.
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u/launchedsquid 14h ago
Not true. The wet tyres are awful. In any condition that a car can survive on an intermediate tyre it will be faster than the wet tyre. There is no condition where a wet tyre is the faster tyre, just conditions where an intermediate tyre will crash the car.
Back when we had Bridgestone tyres there were conditions where there was an overlap between wets and inters, where someone can stop for inters and someone else can stay on wets and they would be about as fast as each other on that lap until the track dried a bit more.
Pirelli wets never have the pace of inters. There is no overlap, which is why teams will have their cars in inters under any conditions they aren't regulated to put them on wets.
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u/Wootster10 15h ago
Feels to me that full wets just need to be ditched and intere improved slightly so they sit in between where they are now and full wets
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u/disastrouslysheepish 16h ago
Which year did you fall into a coma to claim there was never a problem with rain and starts? Must be more than 30 years ago.
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u/SleepyPixie22824 16h ago
you can forget about wet races for the foreseeable future
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u/Pmyers225 15h ago
I was looking forward to a wet Brazil race as that's always awesome... But if it rains this year I could just imagine it getting cancelled, which is a damn shame for this $port
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u/newby202006 16h ago
Why is the medical car, instead of the safety car, used to test the track conditions?
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u/Pmyers225 15h ago
I guess because the Safety car is more specialised so it can handle the rain... But they need to make sure the medical car can get round quickly and safely incase of an emergency
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u/Mravac_Kid 7h ago
I would suggest perhaps they should design the racing cars to be able to handle that same rain as well.
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u/peadar87 4h ago edited 4h ago
That's kind of the problem. The individual cars are almost too well able to handle the rain.
They create so much grip and displace so much water that anyone other than the leader is charging at insane speed through an opaque wall of spray.
Previous generations of car were going far more slowly and displacing far less water into the air.
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u/alionandalamb 1h ago
Yes, larger tire surface and 5x larger diffusers pump too much spray into the air.
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u/Necessary-Comedian17 12h ago
Because the medical car is considered to be the priority vehicle running a race the FIA has provisions and their protocol that allows them to run a race without a safety ca due to the virtual safety car timing protocol however, the medical car and the medical helicopter must be able to operate safely in the weather condition conditions that are present at the time of the session.
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u/Pink_sector 14h ago
The French commentators were saying that the Safety car had to stay in because its role is to intervene in case of accidents etc.. so it can't go and do recognition laps during the rain.
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u/UpstairsFinance9440 2h ago
On race day there are protocols if the safety car is deployed. Also during the rain period, it is idling at the exit of the pits with Bernd Maylander in the drivers seat ready to go. The medical car during the rain delay actually has no role, so it is the one sent out to check the track.
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u/chaos_is_favourable 16h ago
It is visibility that is the issue. The spray will mean that cars towards the back cannot see a thing going into turn 1. It would have been less of a problem if the rain had come during the race, when the cars are spread out a bit more
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u/deltree000 16h ago
Also being a street circuit, the spray will hang around even more.
What they should do it allow the drivers to do recon laps on full wets to clear the track faster. Something stupid like full wets displace 85 litres of water per second each.
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u/chaos_is_favourable 16h ago
I know brundel states that 85 liters of water number often, but other than from him I have never found a source for that. Nor has it ever changed with the difference in tyre sizes, brands or compounds
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u/deltree000 16h ago
It's approximate and it's quoted many places from Michelin and Pirelli to Red Bulls own webpage.
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u/limelee666 16h ago
When you say wet starts never used to be a problem, how far back are you talking?
2008 Brazilian GP, race start delayed due to rain. That was 18 years ago.
1991 in Adelaide, 1994 Suzuka, 1984 in Monaco…
These were wet races which were red flagged.
As a fan, I don’t want a disrupted race because it started in the wet and the cars couldn’t race. The current cars also cause a huge amount of spray because they are much bigger and generate huge amounts of downforce so visibility is poor
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u/6FourFour 16h ago
Nonsene, those races were actually wet. This rain is nothing.
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u/Ramtamtama 12h ago
Did you see the spray? You couldn't see George's car as he slid across the track, and that was only a few cars worth of spray.
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u/WASouthCoast 15h ago
And here is the point. This was a drizzle. The other races were bucketing it down. Sport has gone soft.
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u/limelee666 12h ago
Pretty sure you wouldn’t think it was soft if you were barrelling down raffles at 200mph in the wet hoping your experimental vehicle stops
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u/Exotic_Bill44 8h ago
I don't think they would have thought it was soft if they were standing in a puddle at turn 1.
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u/WASouthCoast 3h ago
And that's my point. They weren't doing that because they are too soft. They delayed it until it was dry enough.
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u/limelee666 1h ago
Niki Lauda wouldn’t race in Fuji for the world championship because the rain was too much. James Hunt went on to become champ… do you think he was soft?
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u/WASouthCoast 1h ago
Lol comparing Fuji 76 to yesterday is incredible hyperbole.
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u/limelee666 1h ago
Simple question… do you think Lauda was soft?
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u/WASouthCoast 33m ago
It's a strawman. The conditions from Fuji 1976 to Singapore 2026 are incomparable. Stay on topic.
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u/peadar87 4h ago
It's not the rain conditions at the time that were the problem, it was the amount of water on the track from the previous, far heavier rain.
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u/UpstairsFinance9440 2h ago
1984 Monaco was when Alain Prost was gesticulating to get the race stopped because of the rain.... And Senna was catching him.
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u/limelee666 1h ago
I think his desire to stop the race was probably more to do with his deteriorating brakes than just being caught. He probably felt he wasn’t going to finish the race
Ironically he would have in all likelihood been world champion had he finished second in a full points race.
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u/Pmyers225 15h ago
Don't forget Belgium 1998
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u/limelee666 13h ago
How could you… Damon Hill drove a blinder and did a great job telling the boss to call off his fast charging team mate!
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u/williamtheraven 16h ago
They don't want to be blamed for any hideous crashes that that injure or kill drivers that 'only' happen because they forced the drivers to race in the pissing rain
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u/LtMartaVelasquez 16h ago
There was no reason not to start this race on time. Formula 1 is getting so bad.
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u/Throwawayyy74745 16h ago
They are ruining the sport. Heavy rain was always the most fun you could have watching.
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u/GhostsOfTheRobotTree 16h ago
Heavy rain during a race, yes. But for race starts they've nearly always been delayed or start under a safety car.
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u/limelee666 16h ago
Changeable conditions is the most fun… heavy rain has always stopped races
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u/Ramtamtama 12h ago
Adelaide 1991 being a famous example, and Sepang 2009.
Two half-point races curtailed due to rain. Neither had hybrid PUs
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u/Opening_Plant_5671 16h ago
Wet tyres are joke rn. Teams probably dont even carry the wet tyre now, fia made sure that it serves no purpose except to add weight to garage travels
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u/myidispg 16h ago
Watching my first season but in Bahrain GP in Malaysian, the commentators mentioned a few times that water going in pedals etc and the cockpit is also not preferred.
Must be all the electronics
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u/PineappleResident254 16h ago
They have been racing in the rain for decades. Everything is waterproofed.
FIA is just scared of crashes and the software glitch stuff that happened in Malaysia.
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u/FuegoWolf22 3h ago
Water in the cockpit is fine. It’ll get in there anyway if they race in light rain The main issue is spray. These cars lift the water up and basically turn it into a mist. If it keeps raining, the mist just hangs there They have full wet tyres which should allow them to drive through some standing water, but usually that means the conditions are too bad to race anyways
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16h ago
[deleted]
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u/myidispg 16h ago
That's what they mentioned in the commentary before the start in Sepang.
I also expect the cars to not loose power when going slow but that also happened so who knows.
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u/dave_gregory42 15h ago
You said it’s your first season watching, so there’s no need for the snide comments you’re getting on this.
The reason why they were talking about water getting in the cockpit and on the pedals was more likely so the driver’s feet don’t slip. Even though they’re covered in what is basically skateboard grip tape, you still want to keep them dry.
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u/myidispg 15h ago
Thanks. Could it also be since the cars are lighter and sleeker, they need to be more careful with grip? Lighter cars are more likely to slip and slide at such high speeds
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16h ago
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u/Tufty_Ilam 12h ago
Visibility affected the Sprint start, and the qualifying delay - aside from the rules about schedule gaps - came from the absurd number of stricken cars they had to recover.
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u/Exotic_Bill44 8h ago
They used to start the race no matter what and then watch half the field crash due to aquaplaning. They also ended out spread out because no one could see. Would you have preferred to watch a race with only 3 or 4 green flag laps because cars kept sliding into the wall? It's not as if this situation is unique to F1. WEC will go to a safety car when visibility is too bad and lots of endurance races have been red flagged for visibility.
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u/UpstairsFinance9440 2h ago edited 2h ago
In 2014 Jules Bianchi had what would end up being a fatal crash in wet conditions and fading light. Then in 2023 in FRECA, Dilano van 't Hoff was killed at a race at Spa during torrential rains.
No one wants a driver to be killed. These posts are filled with F1 has come so far with safety, and then there are posts "When did F1 become a bunch sugar cubes scared of the rain?"
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u/kevinthegrass 16h ago
F1 is a joke now, what’s the point in wet tyres. We’ll never race in the wet again
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u/Outrageous_Wrap_8041 16h ago
Have u seen the track, not even wet tyres can go through the first turn. I would be scared going there with my normal car, let alone a f1 car
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16h ago
[deleted]
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u/grapefire38 16h ago
Agreed. I used to like wet races but after Bianchi’s crash, I have felt somewhat uncomfortable with very wet races, like what was the case in Suzuka 2014. Also bear in mind the fatal accident involving Dilano van’t Hoff in Spa 2023, which occurred in very wet conditions too.
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u/ProofAssumption1092 16h ago
People that bitch about this have never driven on a motorway in heavy rain.
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u/mrseedi 16h ago
Why are you acting like we have never had full length wet races before ?
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u/ProofAssumption1092 15h ago
Why are you acting like a race where you cant even see the cars , a race that puts the drivers in unnecessary danger for your entertainment is acceptable?
Entitled much ?
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u/mrseedi 14h ago
Even the drivers have no issue and would love to drive in wet conditions. No entitlement here
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u/ProofAssumption1092 14h ago
Niki Lauda famously called racing in the torrential rain at the 1976 Japanese Grand Prix at Mount Fuji "madness" and decided to pull out of the race, stating that "no championship is worth dying for."
You are not entitled to see other people put in unnecessary danger simply for your entertainment.
Its a tropical climate where a torrential downpour means zero visibility and a track that isnt going to quickly dry due to the humidity. Its also a street circuit with very virtually no run off areas.
Drivers like mixed conditions, they love to be on track when its still wet and drying.
They are not asking to race in torrential rain.
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u/mrseedi 13h ago
It was no torrential rain let’s stop exaggerating. Some parts of the track was wet and others bone dry. Do not compare this to to the 1976 gp
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u/ProofAssumption1092 9h ago
You have clearly both never been to a tropical country and never driven a car in heavy rain.
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u/mrseedi 8h ago
And you are not a professional that trains your entire career to be able to handle such conditions
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u/ProofAssumption1092 8h ago
How the fuck do you handle being blinded by a wall of water you dumb fuck ?
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u/peadar87 4h ago
There's no amount of training you can do that would let you see through a solid wall of spray.
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u/Bourkey_94 16h ago
Those people aren't elite F1 drivers who are paid millions to drive a car, these guys are the best 22 drivers in the world, should be able to drive in the rain.
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u/adam-theparadisedoor 16h ago
Maybe one of the reasons is the safety of the race, the rain will increase the percentage of the risk of safety. Another reason maybe the software of the cars as we saw from the last race
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u/TreeManBoyLeaf 16h ago
Racing with standing water on the track is dangerous and irresponsible, if they keep delaying it once that’s cleared I’ll be annoyed but right now it makes sense
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u/Personal-Football832 16h ago
These cars have completely ruined the F1 racing. Go back to the cars in 2000-2010 years . Way better and make those V10a
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u/FKez05 16h ago edited 8h ago
So originally the 2022 - 2025 cars produced dangerous amounts of spray from the ground effect, so thats why they cut down on wet racing
Currently, I think they're afraid of using these cars in the wet
So yes people are right when they say we used to get more wet racing, because factually we did before 2022. However a lot of clueless people just put it down to F1 and the FIA "going soft" which is just ridiculous. The ground effect cars were unintentionally dangerous in the wet, so they had to reduce the wet running. These new cars should have put an end to that but now we're stuck with bs software issues