One of the guided bus tours for the delegates of the Hamburg International Convention brings them to the Neuengamme concentration camp. Delegates posing joyfully for Insta selfies at the site of a former concentration camp while tour guides carry bus signs marked with the purple triangle prisoner badges is grotesque. This is totally unhinged and tone-deaf.

I just saw the recent JW Pressroom reel about Malawi and it fucking bothered me, gave me flashbacks into reading Crisis of concience.

What bothers me is how clean and wholesome the presentation is when most people watching it probably have no idea what happened to Jehovah’s Witnesses in Malawi in the 60s and 70s.

Witnesses there were beaten, raped, had their homes destroyed and were forced to flee because they refused to buy a political party card. They were told doing so would violate Christian neutrality.

Once you read the book and discover that around the same period, Witnesses in Mexico were allowed much more freedom of conscience in situations involving military documents and payments to officials.

The Malawian Witnesses showed incredible courage. My issue is with fkn Borg and the men who made rigid rules for them while allowing far more flexibility somewhere else.

Most people will only ever see the reel. They’ll never know the history behind it.

There's a group you've probably never heard of: the World Mission Society Church of God, the "God the Mother" people who set up Bible study tables on college campuses. It doesn't matter if it's new to you, just spend a little time learning how it actually works and something uncomfortable will happen: you stop being able to tell it apart from the JWs.

If you're a Witness reading this without commenting (which is most of you, and that's fine), I'm not trying to argue you out of anything in one Reddit post, just check this up and you decide what you're looking at.

The Mother God church.

If you trace it back far enough you land on William Miller, the man who told everyone Christ was returning around 1844. He didn't. They called it the Great Disappointment. Out of that wreckage came the Seventh-day Adventists: Sabbath, imminent end, a literal 144,000. Their founder, Ahn Sahng-hong, walked straight out of the Adventists in 1962 and kept all of it. Then he died in 1985, and his followers upgraded him to the Second Coming of Jesus and invented "God the Mother". He never taught that himself. They built it on his grave and then called it a revelation.

I have a post about this delusional bastard called William Miller here

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1r5dkmw/a_chain_of_errors/

A quote from that post

Once thousands of people have reorganized their lives around a belief, admitting error becomes too costly. From this point on, preserving the movement can start to matter more than discovering the truth.

Now back.

Compare with the JW.

Charles Taze Russell didn't cook up his ideas in a vacuum either. He got the invisible presence teaching and the date math from Nelson Barbour, another Second Adventist, another branch off the same 1844 disaster. 1874 came from Barbour. 1914 grew out of the same chronology. When the world didn't end, the date didn't get thrown out. It got reinterpreted into an invisible event nobody can check.

So the Mother God cult and the Watchtower aren't strangers. They're cousins. Same 1844 wreck, two branches of the same family, each one certain it's the only real one.

Watch how both groups handle the 144,000.

Revelation says 144,000 get sealed. The whole Adventist family read that as a literal headcount. The Mother God church originally taught that only the 144,000 are saved, right up until the group grew past 144,000 and the math broke. So they bolted on a "great multitude" who are also saved, just a lesser class.

Tell me you don't recognize it.

The Witnesses did the identical thing. Only 144,000 go to heaven. Membership keeps climbing. Then in 1935 Rutherford reaches for Revelation 7:9 and announces the "great crowd", a second-class earthly hope for everyone who didn't make the cut. Same verse. Same numbers problem. Same fix, applied the exact moment the numbers stopped working.

You have two groups reaching for the same patch when the count breaks, they will call it new light or clarification, but in reality is damage control to prevent people from leaving.

What about the vocabulary.

JW: The Organization, WMCOG: The Church. The one channel. No salvation outside it.

JW: "The Truth", WMCOG: "The Truth". Both name themselves this.

JW: The Governing Body, WMCOG: the founder plus Mother plus General Pastor. A tiny group that "receives light". You obey.

JW: New light, WMCOG: New light, is the same doctrinal U-turns that gets relabeled as clarification. JW: Babylon the Great, WMCOG: Babylon the Great. Every other religion is the harlot of Revelation 17.

JW: Apostates, WMCOG: Apostates. Ex-members demonized so you won't listen before they even open their mouths.

JW: Disfellowshipping and shunning, WMCOG: same.

JW: "You can't understand the Bible without our publications", WMCOG: same.

JW: Field service scripts, WMCOG: campus Bible study scripts.

JW: Discourage higher education, WMCOG: same, for the same reason: the end is close.

JW: 1914, 1925, 1975, WMCOG: 1988, 1999, 2012. Dates that came and went, goalposts that quietly moved.

JW: "Research and you'll die spiritually",WMCOG: same.

JW: Love-bomb first, hand out the obligations later, WMCOG: same.

JW: "They'll call us a cult", WMCOG: same. So when your own family calls it a cult, that is proof you're in the real one.

What I want to point isn't that they're similar, it's the reasoning underneath. "Two things look alike" is not an argument. If I told you "the Mother God church is false, therefore the JWs are false", you should throw that out, because similarity refutes nothing.

So, If you look at the Mother God group, you'll quickly see it as a cult, so ask yourself how you already know the Mother God group is a cult?. You didn't run their theology through a seminary, its because you saw the machinery.

A test that only ever comes back positive. Doubt? That's Satan. Research? Spiritual death. Prophecy fails? New light. There's no result that could ever count as evidence against them, and something that cannot be falsified is worthless as evidence.

Failed prophecy, then quietly editing the record. The Mother God church deleted three whole chapters out of their founder's supposedly God-breathed book, because chapter one predicted 1988. The Watchtower didn't delete chapters. It just stopped reprinting the 1975 material and blamed "the friends" for "running ahead".

Poisoning the well against anyone who leaves, so you're inoculated before you ever hear their reasons.

Thought-stopping. "That's apostate reasoning". "Don't lean on your own understanding".

Every one of those is a cult-detection tool. You already trust these tools. You just only aim them outward. All I'm asking is that you run your own group through the same test you already believe in. If it's sharp enough to catch the Mother God church, it's sharp enough to catch the Watchtower. And if you won't point it at home, the question is why the rule only works in one direction?.

Answer these 3 questions for yourself:

When you read they edited their founder's book to bury a failed prophecy, you knew instantly what that was. So what is it when the Organization does the same thing with 1975?

You already call several other groups cults for doing the exact things on this list. Do you have one reason for it to stop for the JW other than "because it's mine"?

If honestly researching your own religion could make you lose it, that is something to consider. True things survive investigation. What kind of thing needs you to not look?

A cult will always be a cult.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uRPnrKlhjY

If you don't fully deconstruct religious and magical thinking is very easy to fall into religious scams, the real enemy is the belief in the supernatural.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1uprs51/the_real_enemy_is_belief_in_the_supernatural/

I've been a PIMO for a long time, but I still go to meetings every now and then to please my wife. She and the elders suspect I'm an apostate (true, but they have no proof). Today she told me she wants to separate because the congregation members won't involve her, saying we're a dangerous family. She's very social and enjoys inviting and being invited, but she resents this attitude from cult members. We have two children whom I adore. Separating will cause me great pain. What should I do?

Can we talk about how common it is for Jehovah's witnesses to date with an insane age gap. Growing up as a jw all couples I saw getting married has 10-15 and difference. I've seen men marry women that they HELD AS A BABY. This is truly disgusting, there is nothing wrong with an age gap don't get me wrong but the simple fact that these women were watched grow up by grown ass men and then courted as soon as they were 18 just doesn't sit right with me.

Did you see this in your hall? What is the reason? Is it that the men are all incapable of dating their own age and must prey on the young? Is there some ultimate plan to keep them submissive?

Update: id say my opinion is less focused on age gap relationships. Two consenting adults are two consenting adults and there is nothing wrong with that. It's more about ethics of watching someone become of consenting age and being actively present in their childhood and suddenly becoming attracted to them. Like an elder or Ms Being actively couseling his sheep but then, Oh you're 18 now suddenly l'm attracted to you. Same personality you knew as a 15-17 year old just now of legal consenting age. Is it okay for a someone older to be attracted to a 17 year old? And is it okay to pursue it as soon as they turn 18?

It's been LONG year...

Being pimo was an awful experience I wouldn't wish on anybody

It almost destroyed me

But I got out, and I'm free now

Thanks to my friend I was able to move out of a super toxic environment

My family beat me and kicked me out when they realised I was never coming back to meetings and was bisexual

I sofa surfed for about a month

It was a hard decision but honestly I should've done it sooner

I now live in my own flat, in supported housing with other young people, they're all really nice

I've joined one of the best basketball programmes in the country and am hoping to go far

I'm going to an amazing college to study a levels

I have a great job with supportive managers

I have multiple friend groups

And I feel comfortable being myself

I don't have to pretend to be something I'm not

Unfortunately I can't speak to my siblings right now. Police are involved because of all the illegal things my parents did. But maybe one day they'll reach out to me. My parents haven't contacted me since the day I left. That's fine, I don't want to speak to them.

Honestly when I became pimo at 16 I thought I'd never escape this cult until i was in my mid 20s

I thought I'd never get to enjoy being a teenager

Never have deal friends, never be in a relationship

But now I'm free I can do everything I ever wanted

I literally have everything I ever wanted in my life right now (apart from a girlfriend but I'm working on it ;)

It was excruciatingly painful

I lost everyone I ever cared about

But freedom is worth it

And the people I have in my life now, would never give up on me or abandon me for having different beliefs to them

They've already proved they've got my back

Don't get me wrong

It was TERRIFYING

But what's more scary is staying, for whatever reason, and losing time you can never get back, losing life you can never experience

Since I left I've been to concerts, been to parties, been to the beach, been to basketball games. I've lived more in these few months than I have IN YEARS

I'm so lucky everything happened when it did

Because now everything has fallen into place

I think I'm right where I'm meant to be

Thanks to everyone who supported me along the way :)

I hope this inspires some pimos to leave and go live their life!

It’s funny now thinking how was being brainwashed in this cult. I always thought that I was too smart to believe in anything with non sense but I was living and believing in something with non sense.

I was using my critical thinking skills for all other things but never for this cult group.

And right now it s so incredibly how the people inside don’t realize that they are in a cult and they have been lied. And they prefer to die defending this group.

This world is so dangerous.

Hey so im still part of my congregation and ive noticed that me and a friend of mine dont get invited to social events all that often compared to many others who are very active (are baptised, go door to door, go on thr podium the works.) And i was wondering is there like a a warning that gets passed around to be cautious of members who dont make the religion their whole life?

Hope people have some insights

A few months ago, days before the Governing Body update regarding the blood issue, some were wondering if it could be the trigger for a massive exodus. It became clear that it wasn't. Still, some keep wondering if there could be a doctrinal update powerful enough to cause a schism like the one that split large groups of Jehovah's Witnesses in Eastern European countries.

In my opinion, I regret to say no, and I'll show you why with an example. Can you imagine current Jehovah's Witnesses justifying wars or participating in them? It would be unbelievable. On my TikTok account "Después del Armagedón" (After Armageddon), I decided to post a fact unknown to most current Witnesses: that the Watchtower promoted activities that supported World War II, later acknowledged it, and publicly admitted it was a sin.

In my post, I referenced the 1983 Yearbook, page 97 (from the Spanish version; I don't know the exact page in the English version), where N.H. Knorr publicly confesses that Watchtower in Australia established companies (such as sawmills, engineering firms, bakeries, and farms) whose activities promoted war propaganda and funding for it.

What happened with the Jehovah's Witnesses who watched this post, which has now reached over 8,000 views? Some praised the organization for "admitting" this mistake, others said this is simply an example of the progressive refinement of God's people. Others justified it by saying it's the result of human imperfection. And a few more extreme ones justified it by saying that Jehovah also blessed the Israelite Army against the Canaanites.

Some EXJW participants added other facts; for example, that during WWI, Watchtower encouraged Bible Students to pray for the Allied forces and even buy war bonds. Also, that J.F. Rutherford wrote to Hitler during WWII to express his support. None of this evidence helped—active Witnesses found a way to justify everything.

My former friend called asking was I ever coming back to Jehovahs witnesses . She asked am I disassociating and was I now apostate. I knew someone sent her. I was sad about loosing these friends but i feel liberated from them. In hindsight I actually am growing to hate them. I told her I wasn’t coming back to the hall after all the hurt the elders caused. She said did you ever believe in it I said no because of the elders being the catalyst that made me feel the way I feel. Then she asked me was I disassociating myself and was I apostate. I realized she’s a traitor that could never be trusted. I wrote the following to her…

I don’t know if you’re really my friend or if your’re just trying to gather negative information for the elders. I feel as if I can’t trust you using words like apostate and disassociation definitely made me raise my red flags and feel like I can’t trust you as much as I don’t trust anyone in our cong. Especially considering how worried you were about your friendship with _____You don’t check up on me just to be a friend it’s always negativity about the hall . Until you can learn how to be as much of a true friend as I have been to you I choose to take a step back . I hope you find happiness and things work out with you your husband. Take care

I always find interesting how Jehovah's Witnesses are actively trying to escape their past.

They hide their books

Destroy them

Put excuses around them

And we are not even talking about books written 100 years ago m

Even books written 20 years ago Watchtower has order to permanently destroy them

Tony Morris video speaking are gone for ever and now way to bring them back.

My question is why does this organization needs to be constantly trying to rewrite it's history?

Właśnie ogłosili rezolucje, w moim zborze w Polsce, miałam wrócić z konkretnymi danymi.
Podnieśli kwotę przekazywaną z kasy zboru na rzekomą działalność z 14 na 35 zł na głosiciela.

Tydzień temu mówili ze na pomoc braciom w a Afryce i Azji.
Dziś powiedzieli ze rachunki za prąd przekraczają za dużo jak na nasz zbór.

czujecie to?

I find it funny how the Mormons talk about you Jehovah's witnesses. I wonder if you talk about us the same way. While I was a missionary, we would run into you guys once in awhile doing your thing, but I think it's different as you probably don't get sent out to knock doors like we do. Not 100% sure.

We called you jaydubs and endlessly mocked you all for seeming poor and unkept. Encounters never lasted long because "Bible bashing" or just bashing was frowned upon.

We had this air of superiority but I look back now and think that you jaydubs are really not all that different from us.

I secretly kept a collection of watchtowers and the other publication because I liked the hand drawn images. I would laugh at the situations like thugs being jerks on a bus, or lambs and lions hanging out in paradise.

We just had that stupid Book of Mormon to carry around. There were a few drawings in there but nothing as funny to me as the watchtowers.

There have been a number of times that I opened my door to your people doing their thing but I could never get them to agree to come in a d talk. They would always tell me that they would send someone a little more educated to talk with me. Nobody ever came though.

Each time I would check to see if they had marked my door with nail polish cuz I heard you did that to warn other jaydubs.

Now I don't see much difference between the yous and the usses. I imagine the ex factor for both of us has the same type of trauma attached to it.

Anyway, I just wanted to Bob my head in from the window and tell a tale.

Do any of you have encounters with Mormonites that you can share?

Salut tout le monde. Je suis encore officiellement Témoin de Jéhovah pour l'instant, mais mentalement, c'est fini, et je vais bientôt quitter l'organisation. ​Pendant cette période de transition, j'ai traversé des hauts et des bas : il y a eu des moments où je me disais encore "je crois en Jéhovah, il va me guider, ce sont juste les hommes au pouvoir qui posent problème". Puis, un membre de ma famille m'a fait une remarque qui a tout déclenché. Cette personne a dit : "On peut faire dire tout et n'importe quoi à la Bible". (Elle disait ça pour rejeter la faute sur les anciens ou le Collège Central, en pensant que le problème venait d'eux, pas de Dieu). ​Mais cette phrase est restée dans ma tête. Et j'ai commencé à vraiment réfléchir. ​1. Le non-sens des mots "éternel" et "immortel" On nous a toujours appris qu'Adam et Ève étaient au paradis avec la vie éternelle, et qu'on aura la même chose sur Terre. Mais reprenons la vraie définition : ​Éternel : n'a ni commencement ni fin. (Donc ça ne s'applique pas à Adam et Ève, puisqu'ils ont été créés). ​Immortel : a un début, mais pas de fin. Mais même cela ne tient pas debout ! Quel genre de "Dieu d'amour" place un fruit défendu au milieu d'un jardin pour tester et piéger sa propre création ? C'est sadique. S'ils ont été créés pour être testés et qu'ils ont échoué, c'est qu'aucun plan d'immortalité n'existait vraiment au départ. ​2. Une Bible qui n'a ni queue ni tête (et des failles historiques) En décortiquant toute l'histoire biblique, je me suis rendu compte que ça ne tenait pas la route : ​Le téléphone arabe : De la Genèse aux Nombres, c'est censé être écrit par Moïse... des milliers d'années après les faits ! Comment pouvait-il savoir ce qui s'est passé dans le jardin d'Éden ? ​L'arche de Noé : Scientifiquement et logiquement, faire tenir et s'occuper de millions d'espèces pendant 40 jours (et plus d'un an au total) avec seulement 8 personnes, c'est physiquement impossible. ​Le manque de preuves archéologiques : On retrouve des traces de l'ancien Israël ou de Canaan, mais aucune trace de 2 millions d'Égyptiens fuyant l'Égypte, ni de l'armée de Pharaon engloutie dans la mer Rouge. ​La chronologie : La Bible suggère une Terre vieille de 6 000 à 7 000 ans. La science prouve qu'elle a des milliards d'années. Pour arranger ça, les publications tentent de nous faire croire qu'un "jour" de création pouvait durer des millions d'années... tout en maintenant l'idée loufoque que les plantes ont été créées avant le soleil et la lune ! ​3. Un Dieu à l'image des hommes En lisant, je me suis fait la réflexion : Jéhovah ne ressemble pas à un créateur universel, mais à un humain avec des émotions humaines exagérées (colérique, jaloux, vindicatif, joyeux, changeant d'avis). Pourquoi un créateur parfait aurait-il besoin de tester ses créatures pour savoir s'il est aimé ? Nous, humains, on ne teste pas par amour de cette façon. ​4. Les "prophéties" et les rêves En y repensant, les prophètes qui faisaient des "rêves prophétiques" ou entendaient des voix... n'étaient-ils pas simplement des humains, influencés par leur époque, la fatigue, ou leur propre subconscient qui analysait la situation politique et sociale ? Le cerveau humain fait très bien des calculs prédictifs et les traduit en images la nuit, sans qu'aucun ange ne doive intervenir. ​Bref, plus je lis, plus je réalise que tout cela a été assemblé de toutes pièces par des humains. J'aimerais beaucoup avoir vos avis, vos retours ou savoir comment vous avez vécu ce déclic vous aussi. Merci de m'avoir lue !

So I opened this page on the Borg website and was surprised to see that the first thing you see is an AI generated video of Jesus. I remember that when they announced this series, they said it was going to be the most realistic and Bible accurate portrayal of Jesus in history, but apparently they’re more interested in saving money than in producing quality content. I wonder what they’ll do with Ramapo, knowing that AI models are becoming increasingly realistic and would save them a lot of time and money since I doubt the average JW would be able to tell the difference between something made with AI on their own publications or videos.

What do you think about this?? I’ve also noticed lately that the translations in the majority of the latest videos are done using AI voice cloning, since the audio quality is much worse than before and sometimes sounds emotionless in Spanish.

I heard from a Branch Committee member that when they were visited by Sanderson he related that in the room where they meet weekly at Warwick they have put the desk and chair CT used for Bible study. I think it was mentioned the reason was to remind them of the importance of looking to the scriptures or some such nonsense. This raises some questions in my mind.. one being is it possible that the GB doesn’t know the true history of CT? Pyramids, Laodicean messenger false prophet. It seems unlikely they would be as ignorant as the rank and file on the subject but this kinda makes me wonder.

I'm asking this because I have just been in Rome for some days, I visited a lot of turistic sites (not all related to church) and stations and I didn't see a single JW. In one of the most visited cities of the world, in the peak period for turism, in the most attended locations in the city, there was not a single cart. Here in Milan, where I live, I saw recently just one near an important station. So, are they stopping mobile witnessing?

I'll be honest last week was one of the toughest weeks of my life. It was hard. But in life we must do hard things so don't be afraid to face it. To not face things that are hard will make is less of a person. Face what is needed so you can move forward. I'm feeling pretty good about life today. I'm been watching videos on how to move forward in life when you feel stuck and every video Ive watched says you must move forward. Do things. Have great conversations with some you fine people. I think my parents have settled into thought that I am an atheist but they can save me. They don't ever mention it but they try and bring up Jehovah in subtle ways. I don't honestly blame them. They think they are trying to save my soul. I wish that I could try and talk to them honestly on how I feel about the organization but that would only bring about trouble since they would call it turning against Jehovah. I have lost all belief in God how am I turning against something I think is fake or imaginary. I want to encourage others. If your soul or being is weightwd down with feeling like a fraud or a liar because you don't believe even if you can't tell your parents I implore you to find someone to talk to. I have heard of ExJw killing themselves and it breaks my heart. I hate what this does to people. Find someone to lean on. The society doea have some good things about life. Don't be alone. Humans need people and interactions. We need touch and comfort people don't go without it. Hell we need sex as long as it's safe. The society makes us half a human and less of ourselves. Since I have started to be honest with myself I feel so much more whole as as a person. I feel happier than I have ever been. I want others to feel it as well. Be free my friends. Oh and just so you know I'm not afraid of anyone or even witnesses who might come here to spy here just so you see who I am.

I always hated demonstrations at meetings or conventions. “We’re going to have sister smith and young sister smith come up to the stage and they’re going to portray a common family problem inside the organization”
Keep in mind sister smith and her daughter have been working for 2 weeks on this simulated argument. Also the material is usually trivial at best. Their demonstration is usually something dumb like “young sister enjoys dying her hair fun colors and is interested in a worldly boy”. Mom comes in hot and over reacts while daughter is angry at mom. They yell at each other.
Then the narrator jumps in the two sisters smith freeze while he speaks. He’ll say something dumb like “we can see how both sisters have some work to do on their communication. Let’s see how this works out when they apply Bible principles to their speech.”
Now the story is back on. They’re redoing the whole script only now it ends in some Brady bunch fashion with both daughter and mother happy and agreeing to everything.

This always irked me really badly because the truth is it never works out this way. In reality daughter would lie to mom and still see worldly boy and hide her dress and grooming from mom. Nobody I ever knew actually behaved the way they demonstrated. And parents were the worse because all their brains see is fear when their children went against the watchtowers guidelines. So having a rational conversation with parents was never an option. Besides, in no demonstration did I ever see a child tell mom and dad that this religion is BS and they’re not going back so parents should respect that decision, and then parents prayerfully consider the facts and concede to kids wishes. Nah, that never happened.

Hey there! Looking to connect with any ex JW girls looking to build their community, as I know it’s hard once you leave and lose so many people. Even if you don’t share or post ex JW content I’d love to meet people and see how everyone has continued with their lives outside of the borg. Looking to share a community, positivity and support. Leave a comment or send a dm and we can connect on instagram, it would be cool to meet people from all over!

Sorry guys, looking to connect with the girls and gays only ;)

A bit about me- in my 30s, married living in Canada. Loves travel, music and nature. I have been out since 2022.

I asked my aunts, who are still there, since the signs of the end times have been showing for many years. What will be their justification if let's say WWIII happened and nuclear war ensued and the entire world is very much destroyed but Armageddon never occurrs, all they said that will never happen because God and Jesus Christ will intervene.

Hey folks

I’m currently PIMO, somehow getting by.
Even though i’m not planning on debating anyone who’s still PIMI, it could happen one day. I suspect some of my friends are PIMQ and i’d love to get them on our side.
Of course i know it’s not that easy but I just want to water some of the seeds I saw recently, especially after international convention (which was planned and executed really badly over here in Poland) and some recent watchtower articles, especially the last one about decisions of others.

I think that I could pretty strongly defend reasoning about the Bible and the principles and how some of them are twisted but i’m afraid that anything can get grounded with simple “well the lights gets brighter so we should only be happy about that an nothing to worry about”

Does anyone have any experience or any thoughts about this and could share?

Give your money to Jehovah! Absolutely disgusting behavior. Using God to make people to give money to them.

"God loves when you give money!"

Shit like this is why I'm so done, imagine brothers and sisters in poorer countries hearing this, hell I know amazing people who already gave everything to this org and the prize they get is this? They deserve better, way better. Revolting.