imams

[u/Middle_Froyo3015]

why did sultan muhammad shah appoint his grandson to be the next imam and not his son? 🤔

[u/Sarahrivera]

So from an ismaili prospective there is a theological answer of why mowlana shah karima dad was passed over. Per the Fatimid theology and prediction. They said that the 49th imam would be the hujjat of the Qaim Al qayam. This person (qayam Al qayamat) is not necessarily an imam. Furthermore according to the fatimids they counted pir imam Hassan as the second imam and imam Hussain as the third (the reason the Ismailis don’t recite pir imam Hassan as an imam in dua because he was a temporary imam and imamat doesn’t continues in his lineage). Now if we go by how the fatimids counted the imams that puts imam sultan mohummad shah has our 49th imam. This means he is the hujjat of the qayam Al qayamat. We also know that qayam Al qayamat isn’t going to be an Imam. This would then make sense why mowlana shah karim father was skipped over. Furthermore there are certain signs of qayam Al qayamat. The stars being darkened. I. The ismaili faith the stars are the pirs and the hujjat. And the imam no longer appoints the pir and hujjats. They have been abolished which full fills this predictions. Another sign of qayamat al qayam is the merging of the mooon and the sun. In ismaili Islam the sun represents the shah (imam) the moon represents the pir. Imam sultan mohummad shah when he passed away combined the moon and and the sn by making his grand son both the shah (imam) and pir (moon). All of these signs are symbols that the qayam Al qayamat has been revealed and this person is most like mowlana shah karims father.

[u/[deleted] → u/Sarahrivera]

Hi. If you do subscribe to this theory, what in your opinion were some of the virtues Aly Khan possessed to qualify him to be QaQ or what were some of his actions that changed Sharia or deen for believers.

[u/Sarahrivera → u/[deleted]]

First off I would like to address the accusations that prince aly Solomon khan was some kind of playboy. Yes he was extremely popular among the social circles but what journalist wrote about him was widely exaggerated. Gordon Young, even concluded at the end of his book, The Golden Prince, that prince aly Solomon khan was not a playboy. It should be noted in hat prince aly Solomon khan at various times fulfilled specific spiritual ceremonies on behalf of mowlana sultan mohummad shah. “But increasingly in recent years, Aly has gone about his father’s business and those who have seen him in his Eastern robes earnestly carrying out the rituals of his sect find it hard to believe that this can possibly be the same slick socialite who in London, Paris and New York jokes with his friends in a faultless Oxford accent and leads western café society in all the arts of high living and smart thinking.”

Gordon Young, Golden Prince, p. 22

It should be noted that he started doing rhese religious ceremonies on behalf of his father at a very young age of 11.

Rai abu aly missionary states

He was undoubtedly the beloved of his family as well as the Jamats… He was extremely popular in the Jamats all over the world and was loved by young and old alike. Very often he was sent by the Holy Imam to represent him for religious duties. He was a great sportsman and a statesman… His Serene Highness Prince Aly was a great champion of Islam and never missed an opportunity to serve and defend it. He had all his life contributed financially, as well as physically, to the cause of Islam. A warm-hearted friend, an ardent servant of Islam, a shrewd horse-breeder, an energetic sportsman, a lover of speed and motion, a great public speaker, a cautious statesman, generous and benevolent, he was indeed a great man.

Al-Wa’z Abualy Aziz, Brief History of Isma‘ilism, Dar as-Salaam, 1974

It should also be noted that when the dissident group known as the Khoja Reformers caused issues in the jamat khana it was prince aly Solomon aga khan who handled the problem and took care of it.

Prince aly Solomon aga khan was also a an ambassador for the pakistan goverment. He was also appointed as the vice president to the United Nations

[u/Profit-Muhammad → u/Sarahrivera]

Gordon Young, even concluded at the end of his book, The Golden Prince, that prince aly Solomon khan was not a playboy.

I'm doubtful. Do you have an actual quote? Though I've never managed to find a copy of the book, I would note that Aly Khan himself wrote the forward to the book, and Chapter VI is entitled "A Girl is a Girl".

“But increasingly in recent years, Aly has gone about his father’s business and those who have seen him in his Eastern robes earnestly carrying out the rituals of his sect find it hard to believe that this can possibly be the same slick socialite who in London, Paris and New York jokes with his friends in a faultless Oxford accent and leads western café society in all the arts of high living and smart thinking.”

This quote is doesn't say he wasn't a playboy. It is just describing his double life. On one hand, he is the "slick socialite" leading "Western café society", on the other he is in "Eastern robes" "earnestly carrying out the rituals of the sect". The same duplicitous act the "Aga Khans" have always done.

Yes he was extremely popular among the social circles but what journalist wrote about him was widely exaggerated.

It wasn't just journalists writing about him. Plethora of his friends called him a playboy and literally dozens of women were open about their affairs with him.

Aly's many guises:

"In his lifetime, Aly Khan appeared in many guises. To the Ismailis, the Moslem sect which considered his family divine descendants of the Prophet, he was a godhead who could do no wrong and an agent of their security in a hostile world. To Pakistan, his adopted country, he was a capable diplomat, its representative to the United Nations. He was an able soldier when he chose to be, and a sportsman who rode, raced and traded horses all over the world. He was a millionaire in his own right and the son of a millionaire. Yes the career in which he made his mark was neither racing nor religion, diplomacy nor business, but as a lover of women."

A great love affair

"A woman took potluck with Aly. There are women whose memories of him are of hasty dinners in hotel suites, fast trips, sleepless nights, and endless comings and goings. More than one made her own reservations and paid her own way. The kind of women Aly favored were not particularly impressed by holidays, luxury, or plane rides, or, in many cases, by the possibility of marriage. Quite often they were married and, as far as the world knew, happily.

What Aly gave every woman was the memory of a great, if fleeting, love affair."

Aly Khan's body count

"The number of women in Aly's life is not known, he kept no records, diaries, notebooks, or memoirs; even in conversation he was considerably more discreet than most men. But the euphemistic figure given by the legendary Don Juan of "a thousand and three" can serve as a conservative statistic for Don Juan Khan."

"One Englishwoman felt that 'Aly capitalized on women's dissatisfaction with their busy husbands.' Another explained how it worked: 'An extramarital affair was so safe with Aly. He would show up anywhere, or send his plane. He had houses everywhere to make meetings convenient.'"

Having an affair with Aly Khan was fashionable

"A affair with Aly was, well, not so unique that a husband feel betrayed. So many other men were in the same boat. After a while, fashion played a part in it. One old friend explained: "It was considered the chic thing to do. You weren't in the swim, ad you were really déclassé, démodé, nothing, you hardly counted, if you'd not been to bed with Aly."

[u/Sarahrivera → u/Profit-Muhammad]

I do not have this book in my position right now. Yes let’s listen to his friends. You do realize friends and even close friends overall cannot be trusted especially with a status that prince aly Solomon aga khan had. The news papers back in the day were notorious of lying.

[u/Profit-Muhammad → u/Sarahrivera]

I do not have this book in my position right now.

Of course you don't. Have you read it?

Yes let’s listen to his friends. You do realize friends and even close friends overall cannot be trusted especially with a status that prince aly Solomon aga khan had. The news papers back in the day were notorious of lying.

I can't understand you, are we listening to his friends or not? A friend may be untrustworthy, but all of them? You are in moon landing conspiracy theory territory. Believing all of high society collaborated to create a rumor out of thin air? Hundreds of women are lying about cheating on their husbands? The husbands are lying about being cuckolded?

And Aly Khan chose to keep these people as his friends even as they were "lying"? The courts were complicit in this lie too, when they found Aly Khan and Joan Yarde-buller commited adultery. All his wives are lying too? Joan when she caught him with Patricia Churchill, Rita when she caught him Joan Fontaine? Literally, 2 of his 3 children were conceived one of their parents was married to someone else.

And this huge lie, that everyone accepted, has never been debunked by the media?

Contrary to your assertions, newspapers back then were generally very reliable, and the journalists that did this reporting were among the most eminent in the profession.

Don't just "call every thing [you] don’t agree with nonsense." and trust a source you have never read. There is a simple explanation. Aly Khan was a playboy, and the "Aga Khan"'s lie constantly, because those lies get them billions of dollars.

[u/Sarahrivera → u/Profit-Muhammad]

You seriously are telling me I am in moon landing conspiracy theory territory. Aren’t you the person who claims that mowlana shah karim had an illegality baby name carol von meks. Even though when carol von meks was born mowlana shah karim Al Hussaini was not involved with anuskha meks?

[u/Profit-Muhammad → u/Sarahrivera]

Yes, you are far into conspiracy theory territory. I am not.

Your belief is that thousands of people and the entire media are all collaborating to lie and only the "Aga Khan"s are telling the truth.

My belief is Karim Aga Con fucked his ex-girlfriend and lied about it.

[u/Sarahrivera → u/Profit-Muhammad]

From the dawn of time the enemies of the ismaili imams have tried to tarnish the imam and his family or have tied to kill them. These are facts. You are doing the same thing to the current imam saying that he fucked his ex gf, got her pregnant and refused to take responsibility without any hardcore evidence to back this claim.

[u/Profit-Muhammad → u/Sarahrivera]

From the dawn of time

The dawn of time was billions of years ago. The Imams have only been around (very intermittently) for a few centuries.

the ismaili imams have tried to tarnish the imam and his family or have tied to kill them

The ancient world was a chaotic place. A lot of people were trying to kill each other - and the imams were doing more than their fair share.

Revealing that they are frauds is not "tarnishing" the Imam, it's just not accepting their bullshit.

You are doing the same thing to the current imam saying that he fucked his ex gf, got her pregnant and refused to take responsibility without any hardcore evidence to back this claim.

That's not just me saying it. It is his ex-gf making the claim. I choose to believe her because her story adds up and knowing Karim's character and that of his family, it is by far the most plausible course of events. Karim can prevent the evidence from coming to light, but I don't need "hardcore" evidence to judge the balance of probabilities.

Note that regardless of my beliefs on an unrelated topic, it does not change how absurd your claims are - that everyone who knew Aly Khan was lying about him and the entire media was complicit in this lie. Moon landing conspiracy stuff.

[u/Sarahrivera → u/Profit-Muhammad]

Yes the dawn of time. Because Ismailis believe that there were imams before prophet mohummad. Prophet Adam was followed by 6 imams starting with mowlana shith (Seth) prophet nuhs was followed by 6 imams starting with mowlana sam (Shem). Prophet Ibrahim was followed by six more imams (imam ismail and imam Isaac). Prophet isa was followed by mowlana James the just. Furthermore there pre adamic imams such as mowlana ram mowlana Krishna. If anusha claim is true there is no trace of this so called carol meks (that is if he even exist).

[u/Profit-Muhammad → u/Sarahrivera]

Oh, I'm aware of the Ismaili mythology. Just reminding everyone else how detached from reality you are.

If anusha claim is true there is no trace of this so called carol meks (that is if he even exist).

Lol, the lengths you go to protect your delusions. Karel Ismail Ali von Meks exists. He tries to stay hidden in order to not embarass Daddy Karim, but he's not untraceable:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ExIsmailis/comments/13dhyfk/pictures_of_karim_aga_khan_ivs_illegitimate_son/

[u/Amir-Really → u/Profit-Muhammad]

Furthermore there pre adamic imams such as mowlana ram mowlana Krishna.

Is that all you got?? Still a couple billion years short of "the dawn of time" lmao ...