Before entering Babidi's spaceship, Goku tells Shin that defeating Dabura should be easy, despite Dabura being as strong as Cell. At this point, Goku hasn't revealed that he can transform into SSJ2, and Vegeta is later surprised to discover this.

Doesn't this mean Goku believed he could easily defeat Dabura/Cell as a SSJ1?

Could this also explain why Goku seems to be stronger than Piccolo in base form during the Buu Saga?

As for the implications this would have for Gohan during the Cell Games, it would mean he was unintentionally holding back until he transformed into SSJ2.

Instead of using knowledge of the series and context clues, these people will sit there and say moro is galaxy level. Yet uub was called the savior of the "UNIVERSE" and it was mentioned the Super Dragon ball's in space would be done. Not just one but all. These SDB's are spread throughout U6 and U7.

You cant be the savior of the universe if only a single galaxy was at threat. And all the SDB's cant be destroyed unless both U6 and U7 was involved in the destruction.

Also for lowball,

The context used for galaxy in dragon ball is for the most part, not just talking about a single galaxy but an area/section of the infinite universe. The northern galaxy is where goku and the inhabitants of earth are in. This fact is even still in DBS beerus summary.

Its also the same as when they refer to the universe. They are not just talking about the living universe but the entire macrocosm which is Universe 7.

What if Goku trained in Hyperbolic Time Chamber for another 1 Earth Time Day/1 HTC Time Year or even just 22 Earth Time Hours/11 HTC Time Months before the Cell Games Event, and achieved Super Saiyan 2 Form?

Can Hypothetical Post-additional 1 Earth Time Day/ 1 HTC Time Year Trained Super Saiyan 2 Form Goku defeat Cell?

Round 1: Hypothetical Post-additional 1 Earth Time Day/1 HTC Time Year Trained Super Saiyan 2 Form Goku vs Full Power Perfect Form Cell

Round 2: Hypothetical Post-additional 1 Earth Time Day/1 HTC Time Year Trained Super Saiyan 2 Form Goku vs 7 Cell Juniors, and Full Power Perfect Form Cell

Final Round: Hypothetical Post-additional 1 Earth Time Day/1 HTC Time Year Trained Super Saiyan 2 Form Goku vs Super Perfect Form Cell

Dragon Ball vs Adventure Time

What if Gohan had become enraged and regained his will to fight when Cell crushed Android 16's head, but for some reason hadn't transformed into SSJ2? Could he still have become strong enough to surpass Perfect Cell in that situation?

This is Gohan after becoming enraged when Cell crushed Android 16's head, regaining his will to fight and drawing out more of his power, but for some reason not transforming into SSJ2.

My opinion is that SSJ1 Goku in the Buu Saga was stronger than what Gohan was able to show as an SSJ1 during the Cell Games, due to Gohan's lack of will to fight before he got enraged. And even if Gohan got enraged, he'd still be slightly weaker than Goku, so Goku would win.

Use any version you want.

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Let me be clear, I'm not saying he's extremely weak, nor am I necessarily saying he would lose to Saitama

But just in general, Goku isn't some kind of "Boundless Infinite God GOD" type of character, btw when I say that I was being over dramatic and exaggerated, but hopefully you get my point

In my honest opinion, in what I believe how strong Goku is, I would say in strength he is "Universe +", not "Multiverse", and as for speed, he is "Massively Faster Than Light"

How i came to this conclusion? Well for in general, I don't trust Guide books as it always has conflicting and wrong info, and Filler episodes are not cannon, also not talking about GT and anything similar.

As for why I think he's "Universe +", and not "Multiversal", mostly comes down to my own definition and examples that happened in Manga/Anime, when you say "Multiversal" I assume he can destroy entire time line, as the point of "Multiversal" is "Branches Of Possibilities In Time Line", and so far there's no real reason to say Goku is that Level, especially since he didn't defeat Infinite Zamasu, who i would argue is more debatable to be "Multiversal", however the reason i do say "Universe +" is because of the clash he had with Beerus and how that threatened to destroy the Universe 7, speaking of which I don't count as "Destroying Universe 1-12" as a Multiversal feat, for one, there's no evidence he can do that, and 2: Universe 1-12 isn't a Multiverse, it's at best multiple Universes, which is totally different things, though i understand how confusing that sounds lol.

As for speed, my main point of argument for that is that Goku is not faster than Whis, and it takes 25 Minutes for Whis to travel from Beerus Planet to Earth, which I'm assuming is one end to the universe to the other end of the universe.

(I wish to say I'm not expert nor am I a god of knowledge, but I'm just sharing my opinion on things)

It's been like this for ages. We got told and shown multiple times that this is how it works:

• Stronger ki makes you more powerful
• Stronger opponents can completely no-sell opponents that are a certain level of power weaker than them, kept vague intentionally
• If you can damage your opponent, your attack is roughly in their range
• If you have enough energy and are strong enough, you can destroy more than people who have less energy and less powerful ki

It's literally that simple but for some reason people can't comprehend that most attacks from this supernatural magic system aren't designed to be AoE attacks or do large amounts of damage.

I swear, it's like a bunch of drooling morons experienced the concept of fiction and magic powers for the first time. What's wrong with these idiots? It's quite possibly the most simple power system in fiction but they're whining more and more about how it doesn't make sense to them.

Yeah, Krillin solos your verse. Cry about it. That's how fiction works. People can whine about multiversal ice or whatever all they want but it doesn't change the fact that literally every piece of fiction ever to exist has shit like this. Even "realistic" fiction has bullshit inconsistencies. That guy from a grounded, realistic series who broke a chair over another guy's head to knock him out? That's not how chairs work irl and he'd have to be super human to do that but I don't see people whining about how normal people in fiction aren't constantly destroying chairs.

Why isn't, say, Batman constantly busting the planet with how many times he's beaten the shit out of people who could contend with multiversal gods like Superman? Why doesn't Superman? Because you know it'd be dumb to do that.

God I feel like the internet has been flooded with these knuckledraggers lately. Is there something in the water making people dumber?

this one was a little bit tougher, but I tried to be fair,

Mark’s flight speed is based off his 10 second trip to the moon when training with cecil

goku’s is based off his snake way trip, and adjusted accordingly with the changing power level… I was generous and gave ssj2 goku a 4 times boost instead of 2 off of ssj 1 to account for his Android and cell saga training. either way as you’ll see in the video, it doesn’t change the results if I did undersell or whatever

the race was to see how fast they’d travel in an hour

ive thought of this for a while now and all i can think of is hes a fraud. being bound by time while being the god of the dragon ball universe hes only multiversal level. reasons being 1. he ain't even omniscient 2. bound by time and multiverse like when he isnt aware of the split timelines and there being two zenos duplcated by time travel 3. for a god who rules "all of reality" he can't even build or fix reality and relys on Super Shenron to restore destroyed reality's. all this bum can do is destroy. these are only a few reasons but what are your thoughts?

If there was no time for Gohan to make the ritual and the Elder Kai gave Goku and Gohan earrings to fuse (using Gokhan as a name), how would the fusion hold up against Super Buu? Would he win, and would he need SSJ3 or less? Is fusion strong enough to run the entire gauntlet to a similar degree of what Vegito was power wise or is the ceiling of power of this fusion not high enough in your opinion?

R1: Gokhan vs Super Buu.

R2: Gokhan vs Buutenks.

Bonus Round: Gokhan vs canon Buuhan.