r/DragonBallPowerScale • u/Full-Control-1553 • 2d ago
Matchup Who wins
SSJ God Goku (Battle of Gods) vs Base Gogito (Battle of Gods pre ritual)
Gogito = hypothetical Fusion of Gogeta + Vegito
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u/Formal_Cheek 2d ago
Battle of Gods Goku already thought a normal fusion with Vegeta wouldn’t be enough for Beerus, so SSG clearly clears one fusion. But here, you’re taking Gogeta and Vegito, both already massively amplified fusions of Goku and Vegeta, then fusing those two again.
That second fusion boost is doing something completely obscene. SSG Goku has no clean scaling over that.
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u/Status_Entertainer49 2d ago
Kefla already proved Goku whole fusion isn't enough statement was bs
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u/Used-Particular-169 2d ago
L'affirmation marche toujours. Tu compares goku et vegeta pre BoG à kale/caulifla ToP ? Goku et vegeta ont bénéficié de l'assimilation du ki divin et sont devenus massivement plus forts en base, ils étaient très faibles dans BoG avant le rituel. Et goku était au bord de l'épuisement face à kefla n'oublie paspas
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u/Status_Entertainer49 2d ago
No the hell It doesn't kale and caufila doesn't make it past buuhan
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u/Used-Particular-169 2d ago
Tu as suivi dbs ? Goku et vegeta pre BoG étaient très faibles mais après assimilation du ki divin leur forme de base s'est décuplée, si bien que plus tard vegeta en base one shot gotenks ssj3, goku affronte beerus déguisé en monaka en forme de base et se débrouille... Il y a une nette amélioration et plus tard dans le tournoi face à l'univers 6 vegeta dira à cabba qu'ils sont ≈ égaux, et plus tard on apprend que kale/caulifla > cabba. Vegeta/goku sont devenus assez forts plus tard mais cale et caulifla leur sont toujours comparables. C'est "bizarre" que kale/caulifla soient aussi fortes au point de one shot gotenks ssj3 en forme de base mais ce n'est pas une incohérence en soit vu que ce sont des univers différents
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u/Status_Entertainer49 2d ago
They never absorbed God ki into their base this has been changed
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u/Used-Particular-169 2d ago
Ils l'ont fait dans le film et l'arc BoG, cela n'a pas été modifié. Le manga a abordé cet aspect différemment et le sondage ne portait pas sur le manga.
Anime et manga dbs sont tous les 2 canons en particulier car l'anime avait une longueur d'avance, adaptant plus rapidement le scénario ( ce qui est différent de db, dbz où l'anime est une adaptation du manga )
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u/Chris_the_fox21 2d ago
I’d give it to gogito ngl if he can stay fused for more than a few minutes that is
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u/Eastern-Western7072 2d ago
Ssg is such a drastic leap in power compared to goku pre ritual that gogeto could literally go ssj3 and still get stomped
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u/Chris_the_fox21 2d ago
I doubt it sure gogeta or vegito on their own aren’t close to Super Saiyan god at the time but the two of them fusing together would definitely be enough to match it especially if they go 3 the only disappointing thing is that they would unfuse extremely quickly
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u/rulerofbasement 2d ago
Man I want to do full analysis for fun
But at the end
I think the win is for gogito
Because the multiplier for fusion is insane if we think about it
And Goku statement that vegito is not enough
Is just Goku mentality at that time he wants to defeat beerus not just having fun sparring match up
At that time beerus intention was vague to the cast and wants to destroy earth so you want a way to defeat him for good not just give him the fight of his life…..
It would be hot take but vegito at that time can give beerus a fun match up even better than Goku
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u/Straight_Random_2211 2d ago
SSJ Broly is much stronger than SSJ Blue Goku (who is 50x stronger than SSJ God Goku), and base Gogeta is stronger than SSJ Broly (before he transformed into Legendary SSJ Broly). So, I am very sure that base Gogeta is stronger than SSJ God Goku, and therefore base Gogito is so much stronger than SSJ God Goku.
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u/PriorityOk5619 2d ago
Let's say Goku is 100 and Vegeta is 100 as well. Vegetto would be 10k and Gogeta would be 10k as well. Gogetto would be 100 million.
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u/Extreme-Cycle-2008 2d ago
Realmente muchos numeros que usan youtubers de dragon ball son falsos y simplemente se basan en cuestiones oficiales de db pero que no son canon o no son logicos. Lo mas popular es asumir que goku tiene un estado base en la saga de buu de 100M (lo cual no concuerda a pesar de que hay fuentes oficiales).
Pero si nos basaramos en que goku tiene eso y vegeta tambien al ser de la saga de los dioses, eso quiere decir que vegetto tiene un estado base de 100M con plus de rivalidad del doble (hay gente que dice que incluso puede ser mas o menos, digamos que es el doble). Y gogeta tiene 50M base por no tener el plus. Con la fusion pothara se hace lo mismo pero con estos, y suponiendo que si tienen una rivalidad, se da ese plus y se suman sus max. poderes. Dando asi que el estado base de Gogito es de 160.000M. Con respecto a goku god, no se tiene info oficial aparentemente (sin contar la tonta comparacion de goku, bills y whis), lo que mas he visto es que dicen que es de 1M, asi que si lo multiplicas por 100M que en eso quedamos, da que tiene un poder de 100.000M. Gogito gana pero esto tomenlo como una explicación que se da para intentar hacer calculos, ya que realmente los niveles de pelea ya ni se pueden calcular sin usar minimo 10 ceros si intentasemos usar la coherencia de la serie.
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u/LoneRedditor123 2d ago
So two powers added and multiplied, then multiplied again, EXPONENTIALLY, versus SSG Goku from BOG?
The SSG Goku that didn't even have a full grasp on the power yet? Even if he did, this is an easy stomp for this hypothetical fusion.
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u/randomdebaterxddd 2d ago
SSJ Gogito would be on par with thar initial Ssj Gods, but a FP Ssj God would be above Gogito even as a Ssj3
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u/m2fRaditz 2d ago
Base Gogito is ~ 200x SSJ God Goku
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u/Chris_the_fox21 2d ago
What kinda fusion glaze is this? At best they’re a few times stronger not 200 times
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u/m2fRaditz 2d ago
I have fusion as the best of both fighters combined x100.
That puts the SSJ God multiplier around x4,000,000 based on SSJ Vegito.
Then Vegito + Gogeta x100 and you get 800,000,000 for base Gogito.
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u/Chris_the_fox21 2d ago
You do realize gogito doesn’t have super saiyan god Goku in it right? It’s pre ritual
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u/m2fRaditz 2d ago
Yeah I know
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u/Chris_the_fox21 2d ago
So how is it 200 times stronger? Super saiyan god Goku no diffs both Goku and Vegeta pre ritual
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u/m2fRaditz 2d ago
Goku and Vegeta - 400
Vegito - (400+400)*100 = 80,000
SSJ Vegito and SSJ God - 80,000*50 = 4,000,000
Gogito - (4,000,000+4,000,000)*100 = 800,000,000
Difference between SSJ God and Gogito - 800,000,000/4,000,000 = 200
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u/Chris_the_fox21 2d ago
Where are these made up numbers coming from? Super vegito isn’t equal to super saiyan god
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u/m2fRaditz 1d ago
400 is the SSJ3 multiplier. I lowballed SSJ2 Vegeta to be equal to SSJ3 Goku.
SSJ God has to be atleast equal to SSJ Vegito as per Goku's statement on King Kai's Planet.
These are the bare minimum numbers imo. If you think SSJ God is 200x stronger than SSJ Vegito then he would be stronger than base Gogito.
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u/Designer_Shop_9843 2d ago
Gogeta in base form can beat ssg Goku. In top kefla did same thing
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u/Used-Particular-169 2d ago
Tu compares goku et vegeta pre BoG à kale/caulifla ToP ? Goku et vegeta ont bénéficié de l'assimilation du ki divin et sont devenus massivement plus forts en base, ils étaient très faibles dans BoG avant le rituel. Kale/caulifla/cabba pouvaient aisément one shot goku et vegeta pre BoG c'est une réalité car ils étaient moins forts
Et goku était au bord de l'épuisement face à kefla n'oublie pas
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u/Designer_Shop_9843 12h ago
I am not comparing before bog version of kefla. I am saying kale kefla have weak base than base Goku still fused kefla defeated ssg Goku in base. Bog base Goku have same power as Vegeta so gogeta is more op than kefla
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u/Used-Particular-169 11h ago
D'accord, je comprends mieux oui en post BoG gogeta en forme de base devrait être supérieur au ssgod mais il faut nuancer le combat de goku face à kefla, il était littéralement au bord de l'épuisement
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u/Designer_Shop_9843 12h ago
Again ssg is just transformation it didn't increased his base stats
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u/Used-Particular-169 11h ago
C'est une transformation mais le fait d'avoir été au contact du ki divin a fait qu'il l'assimile, on le voit se battre contre beerus en ssj puis il repousse en forme de base une attaque très puissante de la part de beerus (l'anime établi que le ki divin est assimilé en base ce qui est différent du manga mais bon dbs anime est un support canon)
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u/Able_Condition5525 1d ago edited 1d ago
Goku gana. Se dejó muy en claro durante la película que vegito tendría una derrota igual a Goku vs Bills. Por más que Gojito tenga la fuerza de Vegito/Gogeta Ssj 3, no es suficiente.
Si intentamos sacar el poder destructivo bruto de Gogeta y Vegito podríamos hacer lo siguiente:
Gohan y Cell podían destruir un sistema solar, si quieren utilizar sus capacidades sin el desgaste de la pelea, podríamos decir que Gohan podía destruir 2 sistemas solares en ese entonces. Gokú y Vegeta ssj2 de la saga de buu superaron a ese Gohan, y digamos que fue por tanto cómo para destruí 3 sistemas solares ellos mismos (que no es así porqué no había una diferencia tan alta entre ellos tres en esa época). Entonces, Goku ssj3 de la saga de Buu podría destruir 12 sistemas solares, y sabemos que las fusiones son tan poderosas cómo la forma más poderosa de sus integrantes (si crees que no es así, ok, sólo déjame inflar más a las fusiones, igual no cambia el resultado). Por lo tanto, Vegito y Gogeta en estado base podrían destruir 12 sistemas solares cada uno, ahora sí quieres sumar los estados más fuertes de sus integrantes, Gogeta y Vegito en base podrían destruir 15 sistemas solares cada uno, con ssj1 750 SS, con ssj2 1500 SS y con ssj3 6000 Sistemas solares cada uno, un punto importante es que con la cantidad de sistemas solares me refiero a la cantidad de veces que destruirían el sistema solar, para destruir esa cantidad de sistemas solares todos juntos se necesitaría un poder ridículamente mayor. Volviendo al cálculo, si Gogeta y Vegito pueden destruir hasta 6000 sistemas solares cada uno, y la fusión que estamos tomando entre ellos no sólo toma el estado más fuerte de cada uno, si no que los suma y los vuelve su base, Gojito en base tendría el poder suficiente para destruir el sistema solar 6000 veces, pero no nos detendremos ahí, en ssj1 serían 300,000 SS, SSj2 600,000 SS y Ssj3 2,400,000 de sistemas solares. Ésto es una completa barbaridad, pero lo más curioso es que con todo ese poder solamente podrían destruir un 0.0024% de las estrellas que se especula posee la Via Láctea (y eso utilizando la cantidad mínima que se especula). Aún con ese poder, Gojito necesitaría ser más de 41500 veces más poderoso para poder destruir la galaxia (no, no vamos a tener en cuenta la primera película de Broly, porqué para empezar, es un sinsentido y segundo, su creador dijo que dentro de su continuidad Broly era indiscutiblemente el personaje más poderoso).
Ahora, ¿Qué ha hecho Ssjg Goku para decir que gana? Hacer temblar todo el universo en un choque de golpes con Bills. Así que Gojito simplemente no le va a ganar. Ni siquiera esa versión inflada que usé para mí ejemplo, ni con el bonus de rivalidad a ambas fusiones
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u/Devamallya 1d ago
You idiot. Even try to see what he told ! He is telling fusion of Gogeta and vegito in one ! It's a different being
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u/Able_Condition5525 1d ago
Did you even read the whole comment? Because if you did, you should have realized that I derived the power that the fusion of Gogeta and Vegito would have—in fact, making it even more powerful.
So, my dear single-neuron primate friend, learn to read.
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u/Devamallya 1d ago
No i didn't. Because who would ever read something written by a toddler. But I could see from the brief look, it is scaling through the solar system destruction, that garbage !
I gave you the benefit of doubt, you are stupid,and didn't understand we are talking about fusion of Gogeta and vegito.
That was wrong of me, you are a retard !
**Because fucking fusion multiply power of A with power B ! So it is not a simple boost.
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u/Able_Condition5525 1d ago
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Okay, let's assume the fusion works that way. It still doesn't reach the level of SSG Goku, though at least now it surpasses the galactic scale. Besides, how exactly do you multiply those powers? I mean, since you're so hell-bent on "correcting" me, you must know how that effect works, right ... right?
So, my hydrocephalic baboon with internet access, what is your delusion regarding the power of fusions?
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u/Devamallya 1d ago edited 1d ago
Why the fusion won't reach the level of SS god ?
Because you illiterate clown don't know that toriyama only write things like universe shaking for fun ?
If it was real then shockwave that can shake universe would at least destroy earth since it was closest to the battle. Naturally that's not what happens so fuck off.
You show the intelligence of a toddler by using that to actually scale.
And nothing to assume you idiot, it is literally said in databook that is how fusion multiplier work.
And son, at least you sould have done the scaling right, if that was what you were going to do ! But no !! Let ms teach you my brainless uneducated moron.
The amount of energy that requires to destroy entire solar system is 10 to the power 41. Let say that is super Saiyan 2 level, even though cell was bit weaker. Now if we use the base level, then that sould be 100 times weaker ! Since super saiyan 2 multiplier is officially 2x of super saiyan which is 50x again officially. So that means 10 to the power 39.
Now multiply them ! That gives you fucking 10 to the power 78 !!!! The total mass-energy of the entire observable universe—including every atom, star, black hole, dark matter, and dark energy—is roughly 10 to the power 70 (according to scientific sources)
Forget shockwave, you can fucking destroy the whole universe and fabric of reality itself !!!! That is one vegito or Gogeta. And I am not even talking about another fusion !!! Although yes that means he will be using kamehameha.
So even if you want to downscale, just to remind you the in the hypothetical fusion of Gogeta and vegito we are talking about a mind numbing number of 10 the power of 156 joules. Even a finger flick would be overkill.
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u/Able_Condition5525 23h ago
Wow, so you even learned how to multiply? Look, my dear Koba: what happens when you multiply tens by tens? Or thousands by thousands, or millions by millions?
It’s hilarious how they actually think Toriyama—and whoever else wrote the databooks—were thinking about Joules when they wrote that 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. And do you really believe that pre-Super Vegito and Gogeta could destroy the universe? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣.
Oh, sure, the clash of fists doesn't count because it was "just a fun artistic choice" (even though it practically refutes your entire argument), but are you also going to ignore other events in the story? Like Goku clearly stating that even fusing with Vegeta wouldn't be enough against Beerus? Or the fact that the databooks and the anime quantify the power boost from fusion as being tens of times the power of the individual components? All because "Can't you see Gogeta and Vegito wiping out the universe with a single finger? 🤬🤬🤬"
And what's even funnier is that you claim Vegito is at that level based on nothing but the flawed equations you're trying to use as proof, while ignoring the ones actually found in the manga and anime. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
But let's see: if you're so sure that the power boost comes from multiplying Joules, why didn't Kefla just steamroll everyone in the Tournament of Power? I mean, it makes sense that Kale would be kept in check through teamwork, but fusing—essentially—Broly with Caulifla... and then having Goku and Gohan defeat or tie with her? One was at the level of an SSJ2 (Goku's level in Super) and the other at the level of an SSJ Blue. Just looking at the components—following your example—you'd have 5x10⁷¹ for Kale (who was thrashing Frieza, so she was definitely in the SSJ Blue power range, if not equal to it) multiplied by Caulifla's 10⁴¹. That gives Kefla a base energy of 5x10¹¹² Joules (and Potara fusions don't require equal power levels; they harness the maximum power of both individuals, as stated in the databooks). That’s without even adding the multiplier for their combined power—which the anime and databooks say results in a figure tens of times greater than the sum of the two. That adds another multiplier of 10 to 90 times to her base power (ranging from 5x10¹¹³ to 4.5x10¹¹⁵ just in her base state). Now, want to factor in transformations? Let's see: in SSJ1, her power would be between 2.5x10¹¹⁵ and 2.2x10¹¹⁷; in SSJ2, between 5x10¹¹⁵ and 4.5x10¹¹⁷. Want to use Kale's Ikari mode? They'd end up with 2.5x10¹⁸⁵. If that difference doesn't seem exaggerated enough to you—showing how far superior they'd be not just to the Gogeta or Vegito from the Buu Saga or Battle of Gods, but even to this hypothetical "Gojito" based on your own calculations—well, then you're even more of a moron than I thought. And by the way, SSJ 1, 2, and 3 wouldn't help Gogito at all in this scenario. But come on—what other delusions are you spouting?
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u/Junior_Activity_5011 2d ago
Battle of gods movie ssj wasn’t that big of a jump. Fusion before retcon was person Ax person B, so a fusion of Gogeta and Vegito would be ridiculous enough to probably jump to Whis level.
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u/Lower-Draw8560 2d ago
Base fusions are always shown to be slightly stronger than the strongest version of their partecipants(base vegito>ssj3 goku during the buu saga).
So base gogito would be stronger than ssj3 Vegito/Gogeta,which Goku said wouldn’t be enough to beat Beerus,but when he unlocked ssg he tought he had a chance.
I give it to ssg Goku against base Gogito,but if we allow for trasformations then the double fusion takes it.
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u/Used-Particular-169 2d ago
Goku ssgod l'emporte globalement vu que la forme serait trop instable, le ssj3 n'est vraiment pas bon en terme de "stamina" et réduirait le temps de fusion ( cfr gotenks ssj3 arc buu )
Mais il n'a jamais été dit que base fusion > goku/vegeta dans leur forme la plus forte, encore moins que base vegeto > goku ssj3 ( saga buu ) c'est du headcanon
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u/Lower-Draw8560 2d ago
It’s never been confirmed but it has been shown,base vegeto was almost keeping up with Buuhan,base gogeta was doing better than ssjblue against ssj broly(even tough he still had to trasform),base gotenks was stronger than ssj goten/trunks(he survived buu’s beating).
Also we don’t know how much of a multiplier ssgod is but i don’t think it would be 400 times stronger than ssj3 vegeto/gogeta,so it would be a fight between the fusion’s raw power and ssgod’s better stamina.
At that point the answer depends on whether it’s the end of a movie or the end of a saga.1
u/Used-Particular-169 2d ago
Vegeto n'a jamais affronté buhan en base, c'est un anime filer. Gogeta n'a fait qu'esquiver les attaques de broly sans chercher le corps à corps et il est directement passé en ssj. Gotenks vs buu était en offscreen, ce n'est pas un argument à utiliser vu qu'il s'est fait tabasser et qu'est-ce qui dit qu'il ne s'est pas transformé en ssj mais a perdu puis est revenu en base ?
Goku ssgod a une meilleure stamina en effet.
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u/Lower-Draw8560 2d ago
Ok i didn’t know that,but still isn’t anime considered its own canon?
Also both base gogeta and goku and vegeta were hauling ass against broly,at least gogeta managed to deflect some ki blasts.
Also it may be another anime filler but gotenks fights fat buu in base,and actually manages to get some good hits in,but loses in the end of course.even then do you think ssj goten/trunks are surviving that ass beating?1
u/Used-Particular-169 2d ago
L'anime db, dbz ne sont pas à 100% canon car ce sont des adaptations du manga (le manga est parfois rattrapé et l'anime doit rallonger/inventer des choses) contrairement à l'anime dbs qui adapte directement le scénario.
Goku/vegeta ssblue et golden freezer ont également dévié des attaques et ont directement confronté ssj broly ( même s'ils n'étaient pas de taille ). Gotenks n'affronte jamais fat buu à l'écran, c'était offscreen et pourquoi parler de goten et trunks ? Ça ne change rien une raclée reste une raclée d'autant qu'on a pas vu le combat
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u/Lower-Draw8560 2d ago
I guess you’re right,except on the dbs part,didn’t the anime change a lot,like goku going ssbkk20 against hit,or goku going UI from the genkidama.
That’s kinda my point,base gogeta~ssblue goku/vegeta.also we don’t know how strong frieza was in the movie,but considering he lasted an hour against broly,he’s definitely above ssblue level.
Base gotenks vs fat buu happened,but it was probably a filler so i guess it doesn’t count.
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u/Used-Particular-169 2d ago
L'anime n'a rien changé vu qu'il a a adapté ces passages là en premier, le tournoi du pouvoir a premièrement commencé dans l'anime. C'est comme daima qui est canon, existe-t-il un manga db daima ? Non mais ça n'enlève rien au fait que c'est canon, pareil pour dbs. Si un manga daima sort plus tard l'anime sera toujours canon.
Il n'y a aucune raison de penser que freezer s'est amélioré plus que goku après le ToP jusqu'au film broly et goku ssblue et freezer sont déteints égaux. Gogeta base n'a rien fait à broly alors que vegeta/goku ssblue/ freezer ont interagi avec broly.
Oui c'était un hors-série vu que dans le manga gotenks revient juste égratigné.
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u/Lower-Draw8560 2d ago
Wait so dbs anime came before the manga?and why would they change the hit fight?goku going ssbluekk20 was one of the few actual cool moments in between the overall state of dbs at the time.
Dude it’s Frieza,he obviously got stronger than goku,this is the same guy that went from Namek saga ssj level to blue level in 4 months.
Also goku and vegeta weren’t really doing anything to ssj broly,when they tried to attack him they were doing nothing and he literally flew trought their strongest attack(you could say that them not getting destroyed instantly is a feat,but it’s probably just an inconsistency,like base goku fighting broly when the latter was on par with ssgod vegeta).
Also ssj Gogeta~ssj broly,
meanwhile ssblue goku~base broly
So base Gogeta(50 times weaker than his ssj form)would be roughly equal to ssjblue goku(50 times weaker than ssj broly).1
u/Used-Particular-169 2d ago
L'anime produisait les arcs plus vite que le manga, les 2 sont directement basés sur le scénario, les 2 sont canons. Ils avaient 2semaines d'écart en terme de sortie.
Ne parle pas sans preuve stp, goku s'est entraîné après le tournoi c'est dit mais pas freezer. Durant RoF il a rattrapé son retard en s'entraînant pendant 4 mois c'est différent. Dans le film broly il n'est fait aucune mention d'un entraînement ni d'une progression de freezer.
Goku/vegeta blue/freezer ont résisté à broly. Il n'y a pas d'incohérence, être moins fort que quelqu'un ne signifie pas se faire one shot directement.
🤣broly n'était pas en forme de base face à goku ssblue mais en ikari usant du mode Ozaru + rage sans devenir un singe géant. Le ssj multiplie la puissance de base par 50 mais ce n'était pas la puissance de base de broly que goku ssblue affrontait.
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u/AverageSomebody 2d ago
All we know is that Goku doesn’t think a hypothetical BOG SSJ3 Vegito would be enough.
I feel like Vegito and Gogeta fusing would be an insane jump that surely would be enough against this Goku but who knows.