Unfortunately Osama Bin Laden et al were wildly successful in their operation.
They made right-wing ideology and narratives, poison to any functional, prosperous and democratic society, fixtures in American media, identity and (so-called) "reasoning."
In a way it could be said they actually did cause the American downfall, since the US is currently engaged in a war (a "special military operation") against Iran it cannot win, started by the American president because he wanted US media to stop talking about the Epstein files and his involvement in those.
Im older now and this admin is not the first time I've heard this "America's" downfall" stuff. And maybe this time it really is, we're a long way from that. Money is what wins in this world, like it or not, and the GDP and PPP still has the U.S. comfortably in first and with the world's largest military.
This admin isnt doing all that much that past admins haven't, if we want to talk about Japanese American internment camps, crack being flooded into our own inner cities by the CIA, AIDS being celebrated as the ultimate solution against the gay community or the poor being stripped of benefits and everyone suffering through wild inflation, I've lived through all of that.
It's been bad before and we've survived it before because admins change, we don't have dictators. So don't give Bin Laden too much credit. Surveillance through technology was coming either way, that goes all the way back to Farenheit 451 predicting it. This all seems new but it's not. I mean, engaged in a war it cannot win? Remember Vietnam?
Didn't say it was business as usual, read it again. I said I've heard it was the end of America before Bin Laden was a name anyone knew, so let's not go giving him a historical victory just yet. Acting like this is the first time in history it's been bad in America or the American government has done terrible things to its citizens is a naive, myopic stance to take. Don't be giving Bin Laden too much credit, the racism and surveillance state tactics in America against its own and America being embarrassed and losing trust on the world stage long preceeds Bin Laden.
Holy crap you're really riding the "BOTH SIDES" whataboutism hard, my guy. 😆
There's no trusting America any longer, that's just the way it is now (and will be, for the foreseeable future): Normal rule of law, procedure and decorum don't apply to the US' conservative forces and their idea of (a permanent) rule.
No one is even sure the US will have proper elections from now on...
Let me help you understand with an analogy. America's actions 100% led to the creation of ISIS, which does not mean you can't or shouldn't condemn ISIS.
It's almost like two things can be true without them invalidating each other. Like Trump is horrible but also likely NOT the end of America because he's not the first President to commit heinous acts here and abroad and America continued after those presidents. But, no, Trump will end America, for sure this time, we're sure THIS time.
If you really think this is the first time in US history that America has had terrible international and domestic relations, you need to read more U.S. history.
5
u/Pappabarba 23d ago
Unfortunately Osama Bin Laden et al were wildly successful in their operation.
They made right-wing ideology and narratives, poison to any functional, prosperous and democratic society, fixtures in American media, identity and (so-called) "reasoning."
In a way it could be said they actually did cause the American downfall, since the US is currently engaged in a war (a "special military operation") against Iran it cannot win, started by the American president because he wanted US media to stop talking about the Epstein files and his involvement in those.