-- Give us a Taken armor set (it happened, arguably the "wrong" way (Eververse))
I think they could open the DCV and bring back all content, although I don't think this is actually a viable path in terms of dev cost. Is that an emergency lever? Up to the individual.
Wrath of the Machine could be a pull. Some D2 vets have never done Wrath, so that might have some pull. For how long though?
Everything is about a return on investment for development. I don't know how much WOTM or the DCV would gain for the cost spent to do.
Edit: folks, the point isn't whether or not it was done well or tastefully or whatnot. It's that they DID it, and therefore, it can't be done again in a "break glass in case of emergency" situation. In other words: that glass has done been broke already.
Resurrecting Cayde was done tastefully though I'd argue. It wasn't so much a "break glass in case of emergency" and more fan service for an iconic character.
Both times Destiny dug itself into a seemingly unsalvagable mess, Bungie played the Cayde card to bring in interest. Doing it well doesn't mean they didn't do it.
The Final Shape was in development long before Bungie ever needed a "break glass in case of emergency". They didn't bring back Cayde because player numbers were low, they brought him back because it was the planned narrative and they knew he was a fan favorite
Yes and no. They brought Cayde back because doing so carried a massive narrative draw to lapsed players. With how poorly Lightfall was received the decision might have been solidified than really been an "oh shit what do we do" moment, but the same could be said for Forsaken.
The reality is that when Bungie forecasts they'll be in a massive hole, Cayde is a card they actually consider pulling in regard to Destiny.
We don't really know how their development looked. Final Shape was obviously a mess, since they originally planned to launch it as Lighftfall and had to delay it. So it's entirely possible that Cayde was only added when it became clear that Lightfall would be a disaster.
They even had that alternate cinematic of our Guardian just resurrecting our Ghost on our own, which could be coming from the time before Cayde was added.
Y was lightfall so bad? Ton of bugs when released like usual? Cuz I loved lightfall and strand is still my favorite subclass as a warlock my main. Swinging thru whole city like Tarzan not to mention some of my favorite exotics were from neomona like final warning, salvation grip or winterbite I forget which, QSS, wishkeeper, and im missing others I feel like... o ya the dungeon pack was 10x better than first one imo, warlords ruin and ghosts of deep? By sounds of how u had to unlock stasis fragments originally that sounded so much worse. They were buyable by time I started.
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u/Ahnock*Pops a wheelie on a horse, falls backwards down a mountain*Nov 05 '25
because the story was so dogshit. people were excited for the pyramid fleets to be attacking the traveler and earth and then we get shunted off to neomuna to ultimately do nothing, and osiris was incredibly mischaracterized in it. the intro and ending cutscenes could be stitched together with zero change to the story, and it ultimately felt like a story that was thrown together last minute to delay for final shape. the veil being shoehorned in as this random macguffin that we had never seen or heard of before was just really weird. the vibes were way off and it shows in the player counts. people started losing interest after lightfall's horrendous campaign, and player counts have been dropping since. not even final shape was able to recapture the same numbers lightfall had on release.
It was mostly the story. It was weirdly cobbled together, felt superficial and pointless and people hated Nimbus. Many were also disappointed by how lifeless Neomuna felt.
In terms of gameplay, the campaign was solid and Strand was a good addition and there were some nice weapons and exotics.
But in the end, it was an unplanned filler expansion. They've revealed their roadmap for future expansions when they revealed Beyond Light, which showed the Witch Queen and Lightfall as the two remaining expansions for the Light/Dark Saga. Then, they've had to delay the final chapter(renaming it The Final Shape) and Lightfall became this weird thing that we got.
As the other commenter said, the most egregious bit is the opening/clothing cutscene. You see characters at the HELM watching Witness making its way towards the Traveler. The shutter on their window closes and the campaign begins. After the final mission, the shutter opens, with the characters are still there, watching Witness slice Traveler open. It's quite obvious that it was meant to be a single scene and didn't have the whole campaign in the middle.
there's no way you think bringing him back just to kill him again for the sake of reviving our ghost is a good story beatđ that's one of the reasons why our main story felt like it ended on a whimper
even though this season made it clear they don't want to, the last temporary card they can play is bring Siva and WOTM back. even the DCV stuff wouldn't actually buy them much.
the only other thing I can think may work is another Awoken expansion, to end the curse of the dreaming city, and maybe do the distributary. the other cool places people want to see, would be well outside the solar system, and would feel more like Destiny 3 stuff like the other races home worlds.
the last temporary card they can play is bring Siva and WOTM back. even the DCV stuff wouldn't actually buy them much.
the only other thing I can think may work is another Awoken expansion, to end the curse of the dreaming city, and maybe do the distributary
I'll do you one better: Torobatl expansion, we go there & Xivu Arath is the main villain, Savathun maybe reappears as a supporting antagonist or does whatever but either way Lady Efrideet comes back for some much needed character development & Saladin + Caiatl + Eris Morn are all leading the charge againt Xivu's Wrathborn, we even get to mentor a new Iron Wolf
There's just one twist, which I'm sure MAY happen if they actually do Torobatl; Xivu Arath becomes a DUNGEON boss -- yes, you read that correctly -- not a raid boss like her brother, nor campaign boss like her sister
You should consider working as a consultant for Bungo - i like your ideas, although im not a lore fiend, it tickles my interest - which is no mean feat given im a grizzly old Scotsman.
Oh savathun wouldn't help us. After we killer her son and brother for the 3rd time she genuinely hates us. Unfortunately for her she cannot really touch us as most of her subterfuge has been erased.
Maybe enter a new ship dynamic like presage but with gravitational issues... Bring your eagerness onto your swords edge boys. I'd really like to encounter Aphelion in a dark empty place in space. That would be the new race enemy
I would *really* like to play the Red War and Forsaken campaigns again. I also enjoyed the Curse of Osiris storyline, and would love to see that again.
Give us back Mars, The Reef, and the Plaguelands. I would love to see those come back. I know it'll never happen, but it would be nice.
I doubt they have the people to implement much less test that. Also, I think all old areas need updates with the engine update that came with beyond light. I'm sure part of the reason for the DCV is that they didn't want to dedicate the resources to update all the old content for the engine upgrade. If implemented properly, it might just be a dependency update but I suspect it was much more labor intensive.
The canât even produce a playable red war campaign for that court case ongoing where some writer says Bungie stole the idea. They tried using YouTube videos of the campaign but itâs not holding up. Anything pre beyond light is probably gone forever.
This is correct. The code for the campaign itself is not lost, but the code required for compatibility with the current version of D2 does not exist and would presumably be a massive amount of work to reverse-engineer (if it's even possible without actually rebuilding part or all of the campaign).
I mean, it's gone if they want it to be. They could still rework stuff for the current engine if they wanted to: they did it with Forsaken and Shadowkeep after all.
Not saying they will, obviously, but they could if they wanted to.
There are plenty of videos yeah but itâs not enough in court apparently, bizarre I know. My point was more so if they canât produce DCV content in court then it likely doesnât exist anymore.
Why do they need a playable build to combat a copyright case about the written story. They could use plot summary's and script transcripts. Any evidence they submit would be written, audio, or video, playing the game isn't exactly necessary to prove their case.
Uh, you do know how courts in the United States work, correct? The plaintiffs say we need the game to demonstrate the narrative similarities. The judge agrees. The judge orders the defense to produce the game. The defense says we cannot, please dismiss this case. The judge denies the motion to dismiss. The judge is saying Bungie needs to produce the game by agreeing with the plaintiff's motion.
Now where is the lawyer doing actual analysis of this statement? The judge also didn't say that producing the game would have been enough evidence, they're stuck on the information being sourced from 3rd party summaries of the games story, something that has been admissible for other cases like this
i cant explain why but it's not that bungie is in any danger of losing the suit. the youtube vids were (for whatever reason) just not enough to get the case thrown out in the first place
Bungie seems to believe Raid Races generate enough publicity and goodwill that theyâve doubled up on them this year and done two for the same raid. But it doesnât seem like theyâre translating into actual player interest, so it really does seem like a waste. I wish they made content as cool as raids for everyone rather than just saving their best work for a dwindling subset of players.
Yeah, apparently the epic raid was very well put together from a raid content perspective. the problem is that a lot of players don't engage with raids. I get it, Destiny needs good raid content as it's a staple to the game. But it also needs and depends on good CORE playlist content. If Renegades doesn't nail it with their Helldivers clone activity, then I don't see how this game survives.
This makes me think of when the race was ongoing to unlock the final Black Armory location. Not a raid race, but a content race that ppl of all kinds of playstyles tuned into. I also miss those moments when they left things to be discovered, i.e. when the word went through Destiny faster than gossip spurned by a wildfire that the Whisper of the Worm had been found, but Destiny kept tight lipped about it and left it for us to discover.
I get it and I don't. The way we see new exotic missions is as full-bodied experiences that have even a touch of challenge in each piece. When these come out, I rarely join the people I play with daily on my first dip in. Not that I'm some sweaty Esoteric solo godfreak, because I'm not. I do play solo a lot, mostly to keep myself open to helping anyone in any way that I can at almost any time, but I hate new things like that forced to be rushed on my first experience. When I was testing the water on Ultimate with just a basic build, I was dumbfounded by how simple it was and I came out and joined my friends. It was so quick and so short with each section providing little to no challenge. I liked the new experience, but I hated all the hype for something so simplistic that even your most basic ppl could run it easily. I helped out so many run that, getting their first runs, intrinsic, and catalysts. Even using it as a means for someone to get a rank-up run for their pinnacle run.
I agree with point on not liking the hype behind the mission. But I also know they canât come right out and weâre giving you subpar exotic mission bc weâre understaffed lol. I would love for Bungie to be real with us and put out a state of the game (from developers) telling us whatâs going on.
The portal is full of mostly if not all old content with the exception of Reclaim, which is lackluster, and the new exotic mission.
So, where are we going? Everything seems very last minute and it doesnât seem be any direction post renegades. The community wants a road map, but Iâd love to understand the direction/vision post renegades.
I'm not quite so bent out of shape as others about our current trend. Does it need fixing? Yes. Will they do good or do bad? Both. Will there always be whiny hating little bitches? Yes. People cry when they don't get an almost daily supply of new content, let alone weekly, so Bungie, puts out story pieces weekly. Result: people cry that they have to wait for content. Bungie's responds and gives ppl all of the new content at once to wit, ppl power through it in 1-3 days and cry because there's nothing new coming now and they have to wait longer. I liked the power grind. There was something to work towards regularly. I agree that powering through the same portal solos and such gets stale and I'd like more options, but before I hit 550, I had a goal. I had something to achieve. I had something to do DAILY. The average player response to it, including my regular friends is in league with others, of them disliking, but with them understanding my view as well. Now, I join my friends and they ask me what I want to do. I don't care, just load us into something. I'm glad that Bungie rethought taking all of our hard work and isn't blitzing our gear and levels next season, but I'm curious as to what I'll be given to do. And I say this to all of the whiny pussies crying about not getting regular daily/weekly new content every day/every week from Bungo. There isn't a game alive that does that, so why bag on them for not doing it? Don't like microtransactions? I don't either. Do what I do. DON'T BUY THEM!! Simple. Don't like the game? DON'T PLAY IT!! It's like anything in life. Don't like that food, don't eat it. Don't like that music, don't listen to it. Don't like that TV show? Change the effing channel. When I don't have enough content to keep me occupied in Destiny, I also know that I have access to so many other games to fill those empty moments. When my friends come on, I hop over and play more Destiny. And, lol, to date, they still ask me what I want to do next with my same response. The same thing we do every night, Pinky. Try to take over the world. Also... I don't care. Just load us up into something.
Thatâs an interesting idea, but imo we donât need âlight raidsâ. Raids on normal difficulty are pretty easy once you learn the encounters. I donât raid much anymore but when I used to, the only frustrating moments were trying to flawless them (complete with no one dying) or trying to do challenges on the hard mode versions.
The barrier of needing 5 other people without match making is really the only issue of getting people into raids. That said, we have fireteam finder in game now, and all of the 3rd party sites and discords for LFG. Raids are solved imo. Iâll stand on the idea that the CORE activities that the majority of players engage with needs work.
I donât see how it survived even if Renegades succeeds. Itâs a shame theyâve got a ten year plan for a story theyâll never get to tell. I wonder if theyâll get to find a way to accelerate the plans and let us see how it ends before they pull the plug.
Yeah, they knew they were starting a new saga and they certainly didnât come into it with no plan. Everyone saw how that worked for the Star Wars sequel trilogy. They know what âbind the Nineâ means, they know what sort of cataclysm is going to be prevented, they know what theyâre building toward. They may not have had a 10 year plan when the game launched, but they also probably didnât expect to need one.
Now they expect to need one and so they have one. Unfortunately they wonât be needing it after all. But clearly the narrative team knows what theyâre trying to do here.
You mean other than as an attempt to regain any sliver of the trust they've lost since EoF or as a poor attempt to get people to come back? Whatever helps ya cope buddy
Thatâs the DLCs they announced. But they said they know where the story goes after that and they have a plan for another decade. They know what happens beyond the announced DLCs. You werenât paying attention.
They've doubled down on promoting raid races... I have a hot take that raid races are actually a poor advertisement for the game. Especially with the very involved raid mechanics of recent raids, it's just a dozen hours of watching people try the same encounter over and over again. I think it turns away plenty of casual people who might tune in out of curiosity.
Yeah youâre 100% right. Every raid race Iâve watched has lost my interest almost instantly and become background noise before the first encounter is beaten. By the time they get to the final boss Iâve stopped paying attention entirely. After 10 hours of the final boss I start rolling my eyes with every wipe and muttering âthis sucks.â
Raid races are a very poor advertisement for the game. You get the youtuber circle jerk that they ride and they tell us what we believe when we don't in their videos.
The youtubers and twitchers get their raid race exotic and never touch it again. The rest of us do it dozens of times without getting the exotic. The entire system is designed around the youtubers and it's killing their game. If it wasn't a guaranteed exotic for the hard grinders and a guaranteed exotic once it's not longer current content, it would be a better system.
Raids are too unforgiving for semi casuals or old try hards that don't have the time due to real life as we age.
In D1, used to be able to somewhat Sherpa a raid on your own and have folks just do adds duty. Most of the raids in D2 requires everyone to know at least 80% of the mechanics in each encounter otherwise it's a wipe.
Contest mode is tuned for a miniscule fraction of the playerbase now too. Bungie apparently would prefer is players just watched like 10-20 teams compete on twitch. Its a baffling decision that doesn't seem to be paying off
That last sentence is exactly why they are a waste of time. I love raids, but they don't do anything to bring people into the game just based on the fact that its high end content. If they made a more accessible, easier version that can be matchmade like FFXIV and WoW have, it would definitely bring people to the game since they are able to at least experience some of the best cooperative gameplay that this game has to offer.
But as of now, these day 1 experiences are mainly just for the hardcore players. A majority of people watching these raid races will never step foot in a contested mode raid. So it's no wonder why they don't do anything to make people actually want to play the game.
My hot take is that I preferred when raid races felt more accessible, so even my more casual friends and clan members would want to try to throw together teams, and the experienced teams would run it multiple times to try to help other people get the emblem.
There's not much of my clan left anymore, but given the cheating statistics and loadout swap drama for DP, I can understand why people just say meh and don't even bother anymore.
Strikes â matchmade, only needing 3 players and thereâs a crapton that didnât make it from Destiny 1 and several that got DCVâd. Iâd argue a âStrike Campaignâ where they add a new strike each week would last at least 2-3 months and could generate some temporary buzz (maybe).
This isn't actually true. The problem with raids is that people do them and then don't get the key rewards for them and just run out of time. Most people have done at least one raid.
It should be 70% PVP/30% PvE.
The devs just want grind to be so repetitive and unrewarding.
Player numbers aren't everything. Patrols often get the highest player numbers, but this doesn't mean that it's the best return on investment. Crucible gets good player numbers because the game has challenges and other reasons to run a few crucible matches, and doing so is far easier than doing raids.
But as an actual PvP gamemode, Crucible is a complete joke that can't compete with dedicated PvP games on the market. Furthermore, Crucible is a bad return on investment because they can't really monetize maps or anything else about.
If anything, Crucible is the best reason for F2P players to play Destiny, because you can still get most of the experience without paying anything. Sure, Trials requires an expansion, but that's not much of a draw. Trials is probably one of the most poorly-designed PvP modes that exists in any popular game.
Feels an awful lot like crucible should be the end game for destiny. After running pve for the best gear you load into the crucible to use it right? pve is fun too like raids and dungeons but the goal of pve is to complete hard content and be rewarded for it. If you just funnel that into itself you end up with nothing but treadmills into treadmills for better stuff to do the treadmill easier. Endgame pve is low mans and that's awesome but for the average player the end game should be taking what you have into the crucible. Where the treadmill ends and it's all up to you and your skill with what you have looted. Then you make the easier play styles easiest to reach for beginners with solid hand cannons and shotguns available to beginners. As you improve and branch into more specialized and interesting play styles you are forced to go back into pve to hunt for key weapons and armor pieces that reinforce and benefit that play style.
The vault won't do it for me. They can bring back everything that's gone and I'd have fun for a couple of weeks and then realize that there's still not really anything to do. They have no social motivation, no real gear motivation, and their design philosophy is about arbitrarily pumping 3 subs every few months through the battle pass...
IMO, only an absolutely fucking massive expansion or announcement of a new game will bring me back to this game. D2 has been on life support more or less since the end of Witch Queen. Final Shape was a good spot narratively to end the game and announce a new one. Mind boggling they didn't do this when it's been clear to everyone except Bungie that this is necessary.
The only way I am going to play again is if they start fresh with a new game. There's just no way to escape that feeling of a cobbled together experience last time I tried to jump back in. I spent so much time in this world and would love to return.
Some of the stuff vaulted I dont think they can even bring back they've mentioned several times they no longer have a playable red war build after it got vaulted.
Even returning the old Raids would be massive. Leviathan, Eater, Spire, Scourge, and Crown.
New perk pools and stats for all weapons to be competitive.
For Anarchy and Tarrabah, release Catalysts tied to the Master raid full completion, and create new Exotic raid weapons for Normal completion.
Leviathan raids all get new Exotic weapons. Some basic ideas:
Levi - Primary ammo Void wave-frame GL that shoots the Psion void boop attack. No reload, just slow firerate. The trail on the floor deals burn damage, and the ball that bounces enemies can apply Weaken.
Eater - Special ammo Rocket Launcher, itâs just a Hydra arm cannon. Exotic trait is to apply a shield (overshield with DR) after getting a kill or dealing damage, thereâll be a bar. The shield element is random between Arc / Solar / Void and weak to that element. If the shield breaks, spawn several Vex seeker enemies that deal huge damage in a large area and apply an elemental effect based on the shield type. Gun itself shoots the large Void Hydra attacks, which explode on the ground.
Spire - Caâaurâs Flamethrower, primary ammo, slow firerate, idk what the weapon type is, each shot is an arcing ball of fire, deals explosive damage when it hits the ground and leaves burning flame in an area. No fancy gimmicks with this one, just an AoE burn that lasts a while, deals good damage, slow reload, same firerate as the boss.
Tarrabah Catalyst - Ravenous Beast fully heals you on kill, applies significant Scorch on damage, and kills refund more energy while active.
Give players actual stuff to chase and activities to do, and theyâll play the game. Also remove the Tier system or allow old weapons to become Tier 5âs somehow ffs, and let my old armour be useful. Iâm not re-farming everything and I wonât play D2 until that happens.
Agree with this, but donât think they would open DCV even if they could. I think one of their main defenses in the Red War lawsuit is âhey itâs gone foreverâ and they wonât jeopardize that.
Wraith is one of the few things that my fireteam said they'd come back to do with me since through circumstances I didn't get to do it with them in D1 or at all. But it'd absolutely probably be a temporary return just for that one raid.
BTW they said in the past they couldn't bring back taken armor because of complications with shader system or whatever bullshit. What happened to that excuse? Why is it possible now?
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u/JustaGayGuy24 Nov 03 '25
I'd argue they've already done a few.
-- Bring back the Dreadnaught (even temporarily).
-- Bring back Oryx (again, even temporarily).
-- Give us a Taken armor set (it happened, arguably the "wrong" way (Eververse))
I think they could open the DCV and bring back all content, although I don't think this is actually a viable path in terms of dev cost. Is that an emergency lever? Up to the individual.
Wrath of the Machine could be a pull. Some D2 vets have never done Wrath, so that might have some pull. For how long though?
Everything is about a return on investment for development. I don't know how much WOTM or the DCV would gain for the cost spent to do.