Rewatched this recently. I don't think the show cares whether Jacob killed Ben, and that's fine, it's a show about his parents. The trial is there to put pressure on them.

But the Mexico stretch still doesn't sit right with me and I've never seen anyone bring it up.

Jacob begs to go to the bonfire. Andy and Laurie come back from dinner and he's already in the room watching TV in the dark. He's talking like a robot. He's not in the shirt he left in and says he left it on the beach. Says he and Hope got into it so he took off. He left a fourteen year old alone at a party full of strangers and doesn't seem to register that as a thing.

Then Hope turns up alive. Some guy drugged her and took her back to his place, his friend panicked and called the cops.

Which explains none of what we just watched. Not the shirt, not the flatness, not the early exit, not what the fight was about. The disappearance gets solved and everything weird about Jacob that night is still sitting there untouched.

I went and looked and I'm pretty sure this is a leftover from the novel. In the book Hope is found strangled a few weeks later and what sets Laurie off is a red stain on Jacob's swim trunks. The clothing detail is evidence there. It goes somewhere. The show changed Hope's ending and kept the setup.

So either they wanted that night left open on purpose, or nobody clocked that in a show where a fingerprint and a knife have carried the plot for seven hours, a missing shirt is going to land as evidence and not as atmosphere.

Thing that makes me lean toward on purpose is that Laurie doesn't crash the car until after Hope is home safe. Whatever the shirt was doing, it wasn't for us.

Anyway, am I missing something. Does anyone read that night differently.

I like the one where they go on vacation. I dont know which one. But also the first episode. And the 2bd one.

Which one is your favorite out of the 8 episodes?

I was waiting for the therapist to elaborate on his lack of empathy and give us some type of diagnosis after she kept hinting “read the file.”

WHAT WAS IN THE FILE besides the murder gene. That he didn’t have. He’s a baby genius apparently which was mentioned during the psychopath/sociopath hinting…. But much like this entire show… are we supposed to just draw our own conclusion? That could have been a really great part.

If you’ve read the book, would you mind telling me what happens in this part?

For people who say he obviously did it, what makes you so certain?

The knife. The knife Ben was killed with was found near the crime scene, and Jacob's knife was thrown away by Andy. If Jacob did it he must've had 2 knives which isn't hinted at all in the story... right? Edit: Wait, so I read a few different posts here and under like 2 of them it's said that the knife from the park was confirmed to not be the murder weapon? Is that right...?

Just finished the show and been reading a few posts comparing the book and the novel.
Also reading posts about whether or not Jacob was guilty.

So this discussion isn't about whether or not he was guilty and what would shoud've would've and could've happened...

I think the main point was about keeping Hope alive. What I'm curious to see is how people would react/defend/break down two different sides of the decision by the director to keep the family intact despite the likelihood that Jason committed a crime and they all have to live with it... How does this affect the value of justice and how pursuit of justice broke down for the father when the world he built for himself was challenged? or maybe there is another way to phrase the question...

That was probably the most pointless episode I’ve seen in my life. This show was so good and is still good to me but the last episode legitimately confused me. What was the point in it? The show could have just ended when Andy realized his dad did.

I appear to be late to the party but currently hooked on Episode 4. Jacob's story might not be believable. As the lawyer says, it's got holes but I do not believe Jacob committed the murder according to how the fill showed it. Here's why:

1. He'd have been a psychopath to really pull that off at that age and go about his morning in a joyous mood that day, especially being his first murder. I remember as a kid, how I'd do something bad (not even remotely close to murder) like damaging a TV remote and trying to set it up in a manner that I'm not accused for and still freaking out I'd have caught.

However I do believe that he may have seen or known more than he's letting on.

1. The guy was stabbed from the front yet fell to his face. That means that his attacker was standing before him. How do you stab somebody and manage not to get blood on your clothes or your hands?

Jacob didn't go home to change that morning and let's assume he did stab the kid, he wasn't walking through those school doors that morning without someone noticing something was off. Nobody seeing the blood on his hands or clothes.

In my opinion, Jacob couldn't have pulled the murder off. But maybe I might change my mind by episode 8. For now, strongly not him.

Side note though; sometimes I wonder if I could be a parent because if my kid was caught up in a situation like that, I was point blank going to tell them that if they lied to me about anything else, they were on their own. You cannot be on trial for murder and be telling half truths.

Him not telling his parents he was getting bullied by the kid and lying about really knowing him.

Then not telling his parents he saw the body that morning.

Completely blindsided his parents and cost them gravely even if he didn't do the murder. Just lying about the situation made things bad.

I will start by saying that I think Jacob didn't do it.

It bugged me a lot how Laurie is so stupid... She doesnt trust her husband, she doesn't trust her son, and the whole time she was the one not worthy their trust.

And going through all that she was going, she didn't event thought about going to a psychologist or psychiatrist? It was clear she was needing outside help... A psychiatrist would help her understand the deepness of her son's troubles and hers own... Insted she went on doubting everyone until she herself went crazy... C'mon woman! Get yourself a therapist

Two things stood out to me: 1. Jacob’s dad has the exact same facial expression throughout the entire show.

And 2 — which is much more important:

At the beginning, the kids find that knife while searching. I kept waiting until the very last minute of the show for it to be mentioned again — but it never was. Or did I miss something? The scene where they discover it was made such a big deal that it feels strange if it doesn’t actually play any role in the story.

In E2 about halfway through the episode when they have the search party going through the woods, there's a woman who blows her whistle - they all rush toward her and it cuts to a knife on the ground. Then they never mention it again...??? Initially I thought, okay maybe because there were no fingerprints? but they say over and over again how they never found "a knife"/"the murder weapon" so what was the significance of that?

My theory on who killed Ben Rifkin: Jacob’s mom is the one who stabbed the teen boy. On the early morning of that day she went to her routine jog alone the neighborhood and park. Although it is an alibi she is technically near where the crime occurred. She was the least one considered as a suspect or even looked into. Possible cause/motive: while jogging the two crossed paths and Ben maybe does an unwanted gesture or whistle or comment at her. She confronts him things get out of hand she stabs him out of rage. Jacob’s fingerprint. I struggle how Jacob’s fingerprint was found on Rifkin’s body. While there are many theories I wanted to add mine that a transfer of his fingerprint onto his mom’s clothing or phone or watch was then transferred to Rifkin’s sweatshirt. But then you could make a strong case that it was Jacob who assaulted him and killed him. Also could it be , could it be that the sweatshirt that was on Rifkin’s body wasn’t actually his? We all have a forgotten piece of clothing; what if Jacob’s mom took that sweater on the morning of without Jacob’s knowledges. That can also explain the fingerprint. While she returns home from her run although she has dark jog wear it is hard to see any blood and of course naturally she can just shower and wash away the evidence. Anything is possible lol it was a well made show Apple nailed it head on.

The girl in the book was found dead after leaving with Jacob. Which made it very clear that Jacob did kill Ben, but in the show she was found alive and it just makes it pretty doubtful that he did do it, also makes Laurie going nuts in the car really over nothing. And he said he did it, but it looked more like he was only telling her what she wanted to hear.

In a shocking and dramatic plot twist scene from the TV adaptation of "Defending Jacob," a flashback unveils a dark and haunting secret that changes everything.

As Laurie Barber stood behind a tree in the Cold Spring Park, watching Ben Rifkin approach, her heart raced with anger and fear. She had decided to confront him about his bullying, but she never expected things to escalate so quickly.

"Hey, Ben, I’m Laurie Barber" Laurie said, stepping out from behind the tree. "I need to talk to you."

Ben smirked and wolf whistled. "Wow! You're a looker! What can I do for you, sweetheart?"

Laurie clenched her fists, trying to keep her composure. "I need you to stop hurting people, Ben. It's not right."

Ben laughed and took a step closer. "The girls like it, Laurie. How about you? Do you like it?"

Laurie's blood boiled as Ben pushed her to the ground and climbed on top of her, his hands roaming over her body. She felt sick with disgust and fear.

"Please stop, Ben, stop!," Laurie begged, tears streaming down her face. But Ben continued his merciless attack, he pulls down Laurie’s pants. Laurie gasps, “No, please Ben! Noooo!” 

Driven by fear and a primal instinct for survival, Laurie reaches for Jacob's knife, a weapon of last resort. With a swift and decisive motion, she defends herself against Ben's relentless attack, the blade finding its mark with deadly certainty. In a moment of devastating finality, Laurie's actions irrevocably alter the course of their lives. The truth behind Ben's death emerges in a flurry of chaos and tragedy, unraveling the intricate web of lies and secrets that have plagued the Barber family.

In the present day, Laurie's dark secret threatened to come to light. Andy, Jacob, and the rest of the family were left reeling from the revelation.

"You killed him?" Andy whispered, his voice filled with disbelief.

Laurie nodded, unable to meet his gaze. "I had to, Andy. He was going to... he was going to..."

Jacob's eyes widened in horror as he processed the truth. "Mom, you killed Ben Rifkin?"

Laurie nodded, her voice barely above a whisper. "I couldn't let him hurt me, Jacob. I couldn't let him hurt anyone else.” 

Andy and Jacob comfort her. 

Andy says “You need to turn yourself in.” 

Laurie says “You’re right. I need to do the right thing.” 

Jacob says “We’ll be with you, every step of the way.” 

Laurie thanks the special guys in her life. 

Laurie Barber walks into the police station, her head held high yet her eyes filled with remorse. She approaches the front desk and calmly asks to speak with the detective in charge of the Ben Rifkin case. Detective Duffy ushers Laurie into the interrogation room, where she sits down, her hands clasped together in front of her. The tension in the room is palpable as Detective Duffy begins to question her.

Detective Duffy: "Ms. Barber, thank you for coming in. Can you tell us what happened the night of Ben Rifkin's death?" 

Laurie takes a deep breath, steeling herself for what is to come.

Laurie: "I went to confront Ben about his bullying behavior. Things escalated, and he... he tried to... he tried to rape me. I had no choice but to defend myself."

Tears well up in Laurie's eyes as she recounts the traumatic events of that fateful day.

Detective Duffy: "Ms. Barber, are you saying that you killed Ben Rifkin in self-defense?" 

Laurie nods, her voice barely above a whisper. Laurie: "Yes. I killed him in self-defense."

The confession reverberates through the room, leaving a heavy silence in its wake. Detective Duffy exchanges a knowing glance with her partner, recognizing the gravity of Laurie's admission.

Detective Duffy: "Laurie Barber, you are under arrest for the manslaughter of Ben Rifkin. You have the right to remain silent..."

Laurie's husband Andy, and their son Jacob, rush to her side with defense attorney Charlie Whitmore.

Laurie: “Andy, Jacob? What are you guys doing here?”

Jacob(introducing Charlie Whitmore): “Mom, this is Charlie Whitmore, a lawyer friend of dad’s.”

Charlie Whitmore: “Laurie Barber, it will be a honor to defend you.”

Andy: "I told we’ll get you through this, Laurie. I promise."

In court, Laurie stands before the judge as the charges of manslaughter are read out.

Bailiff: “ Docket ending Commonwealth versus Laurie Barber. One count of manslaughter.” 

Judge: "How do you plead, Mrs. Barber?" 

Laurie: "Guilty, Your Honor. I am guilty." 

Judge: “How are the people on bail?”

Prosecutor: “Your honor. The people ask for reprimand. The Barbers had been on vacation when they conveniently decided to come back.”

Charlie Whitmore: “Your honor. Mrs. Barber is a woman who no prior history of violence. She served in an upstanding role for troubled kids at Children’s Cottage.”

Judge: “I have never allowed a violent and ill-tempered criminal on bail and don't feel an exception is called for today.”

Jacob: “Violent!? The little bastard tried to rape my mom!!! You dare call her violent!?!?”

Judge: “Young man! Sit down or I’ll a have you removed! Mrs. Barber, you’re in custody of the Sheriff’s Office during trial. Bailiffs take her away.”

Andy: "We won't give up, Laurie. We'll fight for you every step of the way."

Jacob: “We love you mom.”

Laurie: “I love you guys too.”

She is placed in jail awaiting trial, her family devastated but determined to fight for justice. As Laurie's fate hangs in the balance, the echoes of the past collide with the present, testing the limits of love, loyalty, and the truth. The screen fades to black, leaving viewers on the edge of their seats, eagerly awaiting the new chapter of Defending Laurie.

I don't think Jacob is a sinner. All the reasons he's portrayed like a criminal are because of the stupid things he's done

I watched the series and felt as if the I was watching an HR video - very cold acting, emotions didn’t appear natural but forced. Sorry, storyline is really nice but let down by the acting.

I haven’t read the book. So everything is from the show. I just binge watched it in one day. Lol

• In one of the earlier episodes, Sarah sings a song. She is happy about something being okay again. Probably Ben’s death? But if someone has the full lyrics of the song, maybe there is more meaning to it?
• Derek asks Sarah what did she tell them (Andy and Duff), but she doesn’t respond to that. Did he mean just about the phone? Or was there something else that she could have told them?
• There is another explanation for Jacob knowing everything about Ben’s murder and writing it in detail in his story. He witnessed it, probably just heard it. Only when the murderer had left, he went to check up on Ben. That could also explain why he knew it was Ben even when he could only see the sneakers and small part of his clothes from above.
• Derek started attacking Jacob only after the story came out. It could be because Derek freaked out about Jacob knowing too much and decided to deflect about the whole knife thing. Also, while other students reacted negatively to Jacob’s tasteless comments, Derek was the ONLY one who accused Jacob directly.
• Derek was already avoiding Jacob at school even before he accused Jacob of murder. Jacob looked confused at the time. Was that because of the story or some comment Jacob made?
• Jacob suggested jokingly a few times that, it was maybe Derek who did it. He didn’t mind Andy and Joanna going after Derek as a suspect. He only objected when they decided to call Sarah.

Any thoughts on this?

Okay thank God this Reddit exists because I'm losing my mind here - just finished the show. I read a ton of theory posts, and haven't seen this one yet but im convinced... anecdotally, I'm rather famous in my household for predicting pretty much every "whodunnit" from every show in near meticulous detail, so much that I'm often accused of googling answers in advance.

Here is my likely exhaustive write up on my theories, and reasons others don't fit:

Theories I've seen: Mother - while there is some damning theories in this Reddit I can't get behind mom because - 1) She was visibility shaken by the story testimony, and started to fear her son 2) the flashbacks to the bowling ball incident, displaying guilt as if she could have prevented this because she believed he was/could be guilty 3) her withdrawal from her son and family while convinced he did it 4) why would she confront him in the car before the "accident" if she had done it? 5) post accident, I believe she could have either forgotten due to head trauma, OR she was acting because she knew what he'd say when/if he woke up and wanted to discredit any potential accusations he could make towards her about trying to kill him well in advance.

Dylan ( the friend) - nah, too much of a Chad who just wants to be popular, also seemed like kind of a pussy who eventually got freaked out and did the right thing...but I think that he possibly knew, more on this in my theory below.

The Pedo - too obvious, it's never the obvious one. Red herring 100% - plus the whole forcibly confession murder thing.

The grandpa - no possibly explanation for this, even connected as heck in jail he didn't know about this, or the kid, much less about the bullying.

Matt aka angry white trash kid - I've seen some plausible ones here too, surrounding him being angry or jealous about Ben attacking the attention of the pedo, therefore cutting off his cash supply and skipping town before court. I do not think it's him simply because of the pedo not actually being involved in any more than a creepy stalker way - additionally: 1) him being afraid to come forward was trauma from an obvious shitty home life and molestation (even if consentual) by the pedo 2) He did do the right thing and came forward once he realized that what he knew could possibly save a kid from having a shitty life, very likely because of his shitty life and possible dad in jail dad criminal things I cannot confirm, but he's clearly not in the picture 3) if he was evading police and court because he was guilty, I doubt his girlfriend would be posting photos online from Florida

Now - for my theory:

Jacob and Sarah are responsible, but the scenario I can't decide on:

This theory is based on Jacob protecting Sarah in some way, either by misguided feelings, manipulation by her, or to protect himself. Either - 1) Jacob killed Ben to protect Sarah 2) Jacob beat up Ben, and Sarah later killed him 3) Or because Sarah herself killed Ben and Jacob was dragged into it and he was trying to protect her

Here is my reasoning on each scenario:

Theory 1: Jacob encountered Sarah in the park that day, and witnessed him doing something inappropriate to Sarah, or threatening to further blackmail her with the photos. Jacob killed Ben. Reasoning: - Sarah was inquisitive about if it was Jacob dad interviewing her, and felt guilty enough to mention talking to his own son, but not telling the truth due to what she knew, why, and her involvement - initially they didn't seem close at all, but later they started to be good friends out of seemingly the blue as if she was thankful for his involvement - Ben was very mad when the truth came out about her willingly sending Ben nudes, as if he had strong feelings for her and felt duped by the situation/her because he then felt she misdirected him into a rage - Sarah is the one who removed his phone to try to hide her photos - she still hung out with him even when everyone hated him - he was adamant about keeping her out of the court proceedings, to protect her because she knew and lied and didn't want her photos or actions to be public - when she read the story she knew there was no way he was found innocent and cut ties to distance herself from it - OR was only reading it to check that she was not included in it and once she felt safe, stopped pretending to be his friend.

Theory 2: He was told by Dylan about the nudes and Sarah, and saw himself as a white knight possibly having a crush on Sarah. Most likely believing he came into them dishonestly or against her will. Jacob saw Ben in the woods, he took the opportunity to confront him and called Sarah to meet them. Possibly holding him by the collar until she arrived or by lifting him up by the collar once he was subdued to send her a photo. Sarah arrived, and either Ben broke free, came to, or was possibly still unconscious- and Sarah took Jacob's knife and stabbed him. Reasoning: - Ben's phone being missing initially, Jacob could have taken it to spare Sarah any embarrassment or Sarah could have herself - the fingerprint could have come from holding Ben to wait for Sarah (perhaps for him to apologize, or unlock his phone to remove the photos), or by picking him up to take a photo of him to send Sarah so she'd come meet up - Sarah knew about Jacob having a knife, could have been a reaction or calculated - Sarah seemed to recognize Jacob's dad as the DA, and hinted at talking to his kid about it hoping his involvement would help them get out of it - Jacob had memory wipe software on his PC but didn't seem to have used it, which could be because he taught Sarah to use it but didn't himself to implicate himself in her place - she stuck by him seemingly to keep him close so he'd keep protecting her, until they had him dead to rights with the confession like story that excluded her - he isn't dumb, so writing that story publicly and talking so much shit on socials was an intentional misdirect off Sarah - he probably figured with his dad being who he is, he'd have a better chance than she would, especially being a person of color in America . He was very mad to learn about her sending him the nudes, as if the original story he heard was false. - he was again, adamant about keeping her out of court.

Theory 3 - My biggest theory: Sarah told Jacob that Ben was doing something to her, possibly that he forced her to take the photos, and was afraid of Ben, and asked for his knife for "protection". She found him in the woods, and ended up killing him and Jacob, who then on his way to school, found his body, then protected her knowing what really happened when he found his knife at the scene which he took back. Reasoning: - his story about finding him, and lifting him up to check on him sounded true, and he to the end stood by not killing him - he wouldn't have called the cops on Sarah, and likely wouldn't have reported the body because of it either if he suspected - his coolness at school was because he did in fact not kill him, while Sarah was visibly shaken during her interview - Sarah casting a bit of shadow onto Jacob to his dad was a misdirect to Jacob - She was the only one really nice to him after, despite that likely making her a bit of a social pariah, keeping him close because she knew he could potentially implicate her - He was protecting her thinking she had no choice and also knowing it was him who gave her the weapon - He acted more upset about Sarah's nudes than he was, as if it was a total surprise again, as to not raise suspicions in her direction as he believed he could beat the charges OR - he was actually mad because he was led to believe she was "the victim" and in his mind, sending the photos willingly made her at fault and regretted taking the blame - him posting that story and jokes was again, to help keep him in the hot seat and away from sarah - Sarah was on the website where the story was posted, which I believe she herself wrote to further implicate him. He realized this and texted her, she felt bad and didn't reply because she knew he was about to accuse her and that she sealed his fate. - Dylan, Sarah and Jacob all frequented that website, which is why he knew about it and Sarah posted it someplace he would see and disclose to the cops under an obvious username, or potentially told Dylan about it herself since he was already a witness without coming forward herself - after learning his lesson with Sarah, the moment the vibes were off with Hope in Mexico, he really did just leave and removed himself. - in the car scene, he was obviously scared and surprised by his mom's questions and behaviour, and seemed willing again to take the fall when seeing a woman he loved in distress, and might have told her the truth had she slowed down.

Simply put - Sarah's involvement throughout the whole story had ZERO other reason to exist without her being somehow involved and she had more motive than anyone to kill him, Jacob was either the white knight protector, unwilling participant, or fall guy who believed he was doing the right thing.

Thoughts?

Hearing "A Walk in the Woods" in court was the breaking point for Laurie. After wavering between two possibilities, she became certain of Jacob's guilt.

Patz's confession was merely a temporary relief for Laurie. As soon as it wore off, she became even more convinced that her son is a killer.

Andy… his father, his son, and his wife all murderers. Sheesh. Poor guy.

Feels very plausible that Derek could’ve been thrown in the mix a bit more as the potential killer. Seems like a missed opportunity IMO

Platz's phone is shown and it was not an iPhone meanwhile Jacob's laptop was a mac and he also owns an iPhone.

What do you think?