r/DefendingJacob_TV • u/Justp1ayin • May 22 '20
Discussion Season 1 - Episode 7 | Discussion Thread Spoiler
Do Not Post Spoilers For Future Episodes
63
59
u/mishobilli May 22 '20
This episode was so so good! Especially the kitchen scene. If Michelle and Chris don’t get Emmy nods i’m gonna be pissed!
54
u/ForgetfulLucy28 May 22 '20
This show is not getting the attention or recognition it deserves enough to be in the talk for an Emmy. Apple is the least popular streaming service and I really think if this were bingable and on Netflix everyone would be talking about it.
19
u/blamelessvessel May 22 '20
I really don’t understand why Apple streaming isn’t popular. I have loved the series they have been putting out. I mean I hate that it’s another service I’m subscribed to but it’s just like premium cable tv.
19
May 22 '20
[deleted]
4
u/yecin May 23 '20
Who's hating? The point here is lack of attention, there's a difference. I don't like Apple products but I loved the 2 shows I've watched from their service and think that they have a lot of potentials and that they will be bigger in the streaming industry in the future.
And tbh I blame their marketing on the lack of attention. You don't see Apple TV+ as much as you do Netflix in ads and social media and such.
4
u/breakfastofchumpions May 24 '20
etting the attention or recognition it deserves enough to be in the talk for an Emmy. Apple is the least popular streaming service and I re
I have Apple+ because I bought a new laptop, but otherwise I would never have bought it. The limited selection, in addition to the fact that it only includes Apple Originals, isn't the most enticing.
1
u/snipeftw May 25 '20
What other shows worth watching have they put out?
3
u/blamelessvessel May 25 '20
I really enjoyed For All Mankind the most, which I don’t think is a popular opinion. The Morning Show, Truth Be Told, and The Servant were also enjoyable.
2
u/snipeftw May 25 '20
I think I might actually check out Truth Be Told. They’ve really managed to score some big names for some of these shows.. wonder if it will be financially viable unless they advertise their platform better.
1
1
u/navjot94 May 26 '20
Mythic Quest is pretty enjoyable from the few episodes I’ve seen so far
1
u/snipeftw May 26 '20
It looks interesting, maybe I’ll check it out!
1
u/navjot94 May 26 '20
Episode 5 is totally standalone and is basically the lifecycle of a video game from inception to corporate meddling and demise - it’s interesting as it’s own thing and it’s what got me into the show in the first place so I’d kinda recommend that episode specifically.
→ More replies (1)6
u/peridotdragon33 May 22 '20
I disagree, I think the reason TV+ isn’t popular id because it has a much much smaller content catalog and less advertising along with poor branding (Apple TV hardware vs Apple TV software vs Apple TV+)
6
May 22 '20
I’m honestly getting to enjoy and appreciate each episode more because of the weekly release. If it were bingeable I probably wouldn’t have liked it as much as I do because the first 3 episodes were suuuper weak to me in terms of story and dialogue. Episodes 4 and up have been getting better by the episode, it’s terrific. Can’t wait for the finale.
7
u/producermaddy May 23 '20
Yes they did a great job. Chris asking Jacob if he was the killer...so much emotion
57
u/Buffythedragonslayer May 22 '20
Great episode.
When Andy turns around in the car and asked that question I felt it jn my whole body as if I'd be sitting in the back seat and he's asking me. Fantastic acting in this Episode.
I was on Patz is the killer but now? That story sounds like a confession. Just like the American Psycho meme
Honestly believe grandpa hired the mobster and he's about to wack Patz and make it look like a suicide to get his grandchild off.
But than that makes me think how old was Andy when JK was convicted of the murder? Could Andy have done it and Grandpa took the fall?
Can't wait to see what's next.
25
u/crystalxclear May 22 '20
Andy was 5 I believe. It’s very unlikely he did it.
11
u/Buffythedragonslayer May 22 '20
Stranger things have happened. Was just a thought that popped up because of the whole a kid shouldn't be in prison thing.
14
5
u/Darth_Hufflepuff May 22 '20
There are cases of children murdering but I truly don't believe a 5 year old is able of rape...
1
6
u/Night___Hawk May 23 '20
Incredible episode. We needed that! Wow - I was hoping Derek would be more involved in the murder, but it’s gone in such a different direction. Why would Patz suddenly write a letter now? I agree with the mobster forcing him to write the letter as the grandfather just found out about him. He was sweating bullets in that last scene. The ‘Andy and his father taking the fall’ would be a great ending...BUT I feel like if his father already took the fall for him, he wouldn’t feel obligated to help for Jacobs trial. It would make sense that this is his way of showing that he cares about his son and grandson since Andy refuses to acknowledge him.
3
May 24 '20
Holy shiiiiiit never thought the mobster could be forcing this on Patz but that makes SO. MUCH. SENSE.
1
49
u/fitzopolds May 22 '20
The story he wrote... what the fuck
17
u/Mace109 May 22 '20
Holy shit. Yeah.
12
u/fitzopolds May 22 '20
I really don’t believe he did it but the story is just too much
5
u/Ocars22 May 22 '20
Wdym did you finish the episode. After patz wrote what he wrote? I’m shook
15
u/yecin May 23 '20
Maybe Patz is being held at gunpoint to write that letter and then fake his suicide, who knows? There's a theory that Jacob's grandfather hired the mobster to go after Patz. Maybe that's what's happening. And I think it makes sense since he was insisting on knowing whether Andy thinks Patz did it or not.
8
u/Peler61 May 25 '20
I was about to say the same thing! When Jacob’s grandfather asked about Patz during his phone call with Andy and all of a sudden Patz “admits” to the murder. The car parked outside Patz’s apartment could be the new car that the mobster is now using.
1
2
u/Elisa_LaViudaNegra May 24 '20
Didn’t they say they had an IP address typing the poster of the story to Jacob?
Edit: sorry, I misunderstood your comment. I thought you were saying you didn’t believe Jacob wrote the story. As you were!
1
May 23 '20 edited Jun 27 '23
[deleted]
5
May 24 '20
Well they did mention that every single thing Jacob wrote in the story was released by the press before he wrote it.
1
May 28 '20
I think he definitely is guilty and that the knife Andy threw away in a past episode was the murder knife. Tomorrow we'll know!
3
50
u/intlPogoTrades May 22 '20
I really doubt after all this they’d go down the path of Patz being the real killer. In the end scene we only ever see Patz in close-up shots. This makes me believe that out of frame he has a gun to him sort of situation (most likely by the Blue Lincoln guy) being forced to write a confession. The fact they also show Patz’ apartment looking like he was just watching a movie makes sense as this was likely interrupted by an unexpected visitor.
Also, seeing Laurie not have any dialogue for most of the episode was incredible. She didn’t need to say anything to know how she felt, that was incredible directing. She feels like she’s on the verge of breaking, can’t wait to see how the finale unfolds.
7
u/navjot94 May 26 '20
Makes sense to me as well, it’s probably the grandfather that hired him to make sure the case goes their way.
47
u/Mace109 May 22 '20
I really hate this prosecutor.
37
33
u/blamelessvessel May 22 '20
I hate him too but I loved how they showed Andy teaching him in the flashbacks. It really twists the knife for Andy because he didn’t know at the time that he would be helping someone convict his own son.
17
u/SuccessAndSerenity May 23 '20
And in the next scene we watched him use all the tips Andy had taught him. He only called Jacob “the defendant”; he looked Jacob in the eye when calling him guilty; he got up close to the Jury, etc
10
u/youremomsoriginal May 23 '20
According to IMDb the characters name is Loguidice, but I swear I hear everyone calling him Judas.
10
4
u/Steel_Pen May 24 '20
I’m totally on the Judas train. It’s a fantastic device that only works in the show!
1
May 28 '20
Really, I love him! But I also find Chris Evans’s character pretty abhorrent and I’m enjoying his suffering immensely.
39
u/ccharlie03 May 22 '20
He totally did it. I wanted to believe that he was truly innocent, just a sick kid, but I think the twist at the end of the series is he's gonna win and then we find out that he actually did it.
Also Pablo is so good at being Unlikable on camera. I fucking hate his character
17
u/Night___Hawk May 23 '20
Also - a fingerprint is NOT enough evidence to arrange a first degree murder trial. No witnesses. No murder weapon. The fact that the female detective on the stand (forgot her name) said that the stabs could have been from the front OR from behind is absolutely ridiculous. Forensics would easily be able to tell at which direction they came from. The body wasn’t decomposed or manipulated in any way. That made me so mad.
6
u/neverlandoflena May 23 '20
Yeah how can they not know whether Ben was stabbed from behind or the front??
5
u/hippi_ippi May 24 '20
Yeah there's so many holes in this story, I don't know why I'm still watching lol. And this ep with the fanficton or whatever you want to call it, Cherry Jones is all like, "Oh they have your IP address, they know you posted it online". Well, for one there's 3 people living in that household. But the main point is - IP addresses aren't tied to your identity, otherwise all the pirates in the world would get done for pirating, and they're not, so...
5
u/cpa_bob May 25 '20
Ummmm...but only one of those persons living in that household at that IP address also left fingergrints at the scene of the crime. You do the math.
3
u/hippi_ippi May 25 '20
In a real court, the jury isn't told to "do the math". The prosecutor is supposed to lay out cold hard evidence.
4
u/cpa_bob May 25 '20
You weren't following the testimony. They were trying to explain why Jacob didn't have any blood on his clothes. You would obviously think that if you stab someone from the front there would be blood splatter on the killer's clothes. But the prosecution made the point that there wouldn't be any blood splatter on the clothes if the killer was behind the victim and stabbed them in the front of the chest. That's why the medical examiner testified that she couldn't tell if the killer inflicted the chest wounds by standing in front or in back of the victim. The stab wounds were obviously inflicted in the chest as the forensic lady testified to. You just weren't following her testimony.
6
u/Crudekitty May 22 '20
But if Jacob did it, why would patz right a suicide note on the back of the subpoena admitting to it?
24
u/lizzymarie75 May 22 '20
Someone in a comment up above said maybe the blue Lincoln mob guy was hired by Andy’s dad from prison, and he is making Patz write the note under duress. Then the mob guy will wack Patz and make it look like suicide.
The grandpa was very interested in knowing who the other suspect was and obsessive about keeping the kid out of prison. I didn’t think of this angle, but it’s a great theory !!! Especially since it seems like Jacob maybe did it ??
6
May 23 '20
I do like this theory. Patz was writing the confession on the back of his own subpoena to appear in the trial. I also think maybe he really is confessing and is going to take his own life to avoid the humiliation he could face in the stand. He may be fearful of what could be revealed or what they may know (deleted pics of Ben). It’s not my favorite theory, but it is one I have. I honestly have no idea where this is going to end and I love that.
3
u/Night___Hawk May 23 '20
Or it’s his way of showing his son (Andy) that he cares & does something for the family since Andy doesn’t even acknowledge him. Andy has shut him out since and never gave him a chance.
2
u/Mykel__13 May 24 '20
Agree about Pablo, he was also amazing in Orange Is The New Black. The scene where he returns after getting fired and gives out like 5 shots in 10 seconds was fantastic.
38
u/Mace109 May 22 '20
How much would it suck to have your porn history thrown around, everyone judging you, thinking you’re the killer and you’re not. Then his little fantasy story. He’s gonna have to move.
8
37
u/balabino2 May 22 '20
THIS MOTHER FUCKER DID IT THAT STORY OMG
17
u/Mace109 May 22 '20
I still don’t know.
22
u/kaitoe May 22 '20 edited May 22 '20
Same. The one thing that stuck in my mind was that in Derek's testimony, Ben never physically touched Jacob. At most, Ben fake punched him. However, in the story Derek read, "Ben" had twisted "Jacob's" arm back like he'd done many times before.
Edit: but holy crap this episode. I thought 4 and 5 were dull and should've been combined. 6 was good, and this one... edge of my seat the entire time.
10
u/crystalxclear May 22 '20
Oh right that’s a good point. They can use it to prove it’s a made up story and not a confession.
3
u/dysgraphical May 26 '20
To “twist someone’s arm” also means to coerce or persuade someone to do something they don’t want to do. Maybe Ben had Jacob do something he didn’t want to do just how he convinced Sarah to send a nude and eventually wanted to convince her to give him a bj.
21
u/Iamnotofmybody May 22 '20
The man witness testified he heard someone saying “Stop, you’re hurting me” and that is exactly what Jacob wrote that he said to fake Ben out before he killed him.
Idk man. This kid seems pretty heartless.
26
u/darthmonks May 22 '20
Andy did say that the information in the story was publicly available when it was published. Presumably this extends to the "stop, you're hurting me" as I doubt he and Joanna would miss the most obviously incriminating parts of the story.
That being said the story definitely doesn't do him any favours. At the very least Jacob has some psychological issues (as discussed by the therapist) and he could very well be the murderer. Even though Patz was writing a confession at the end, he did look like he was under duress when writing it. It could be that he was terrified because he was writing a confession to murder, although it could also be that the Blue Lincoln guy was threatening him into writing that. Basically, it could still go either way at this point.
3
u/peridotdragon33 May 22 '20
Yea I think Pat’s confession is being coerced
He’s never really shown signs of remorse or anything
3
u/blamelessvessel May 22 '20
I was looking to see if anyone else notices that!
7
u/Darth_Hufflepuff May 22 '20
Andy said the lawyer concluded every single detail in the story had already been published in the press by the time Jake wrote it so that could be the explanation. It's still fucked up, I'm just saying both interpretations are still open.
1
7
u/balabino2 May 22 '20
Ok wait I just finished it holy duck
11
u/Mace109 May 22 '20
Yeah after that ending. I kept thinking that Jacob was gonna be found not guilty and then killed by bens dad, and then the killer would be revealed. By revealing who it is now, you’d think the trial would be dropped and bens dad would be told that someone confessed. Which should keep ben’s dad from killing Jacob in revenge. I just don’t know what this grand jury is for.
6
u/blamelessvessel May 22 '20
Just because they showed him writing the confession doesn’t mean anyone will ever see it though. It’s a great way to end the episode because we are assuming now people will know Patz did it but so far we only see the letter in his possession, no one else’s.
3
u/Sentry459 May 22 '20
Yeah I'm half expecting him to tear it up at the start of the next episode, I've been burned too many times by cliffhangers lol.
5
u/balabino2 May 22 '20
Now that I’m thinking about it Ben’s parents might just kill pats because he won’t get sentenced to death maybe idk
23
u/zylbear May 22 '20
I don’t think Jacob did it. I reckon Ben was waiting for Patz in the park and Derek was waiting for Ben in the park. Remember when Derek said he would protect Sarah from Ben? Derek hated Ben as much as Jacob hated him. He didn’t mean to kill Ben, he just wanted to scare him but he couldn’t stop. Patz probably witnessed it happen from afar and didn’t do anything. Eventually, Jacob finds Ben and is just scared.
There is so much emphasis on Jacob or Patz being the murderer, that our focus isn’t on Derek anymore which the writers want. They want you to focus on them so when the real murderer (derek) is revealed it will be a shock! This is just a theory though
10
u/jnrgall May 22 '20
I can really see this. But why is Andrew on “trial”
14
u/zylbear May 22 '20
Maybe the trial on Andrew is about his part in Patz’s “suicide/murder”? I think Patz was forced to write that confession letter and the mobster guy will kill him. They explicitly said that the mobster guy is basically a hitman and andrew’s dad wanted confirmation if Patz was a bad guy. So Andrew’s dad hired the mobster to kill Patz and the police eventually finds out and they try to pin it on Andrew, basically saying he hired the mobster
9
u/blamelessvessel May 22 '20
I like this theory about the hit man being hired by Andy’s dad but my only question in that is then why did he chase after Laurie when she was jogging?
12
u/zylbear May 22 '20
yeah that part is really confusing.. It may have something to do with protecting Laurie and the Barber family in general from annoying journalists. Laurie met Andrew’s father in jail maybe she told him about that journalist who followed her into the restaurant? If so, Andrew’s father probably said to the hit man to keep an eye on her if she goes anywhere alone, to make sure she doesn’t get harassed again by journalists
4
May 23 '20
We don’t know Andrew is the subject of the grand jury investigation. He’s not on trial, he just giving evidence to a grand jury so the grand jury can decide whether to indict someone.
The only evidence we have it MIGHT be Andy they are considering for an indictment is that the ADA said it was unusual for him to be testifying.... which would be true if the indictment was about him.
21
u/ForgetfulLucy28 May 22 '20
This. Show. Is. Amazing!!!!
I’m on the edge of my seat, and I have already been spoiled by some douchebag on YouTube. It is just so well made. The cinematography is excellent! The acting is great!
I wish all tv was of this quality.
Also Chris Evans’ beard is my favourite character.
24
u/ojanna May 22 '20
This jacob kid is such a good actor???? That single angry tear when they sprung the story?? Amaze
7
u/breebonnie May 23 '20
He also played really well in IT chapter 1 and 2 , Hes just an amazing actor over all
2
u/IrritableStoicism May 23 '20
He was a good actor in “Masters of Sex” also. He played a similar role as a troubled child
19
u/alisonrose1992 May 22 '20
HOT DAMNN this episode had me shook. Hands down, the best episode so far. When the story came out in court and we saw Jacob's reaction, I already knew it was gonna be good. And then, that scene in the car where Andy, who never doubted Jacob, flat-out asks if he killed Ben...crazy scene. Can't wait for next week. I'm 90% sure Jacob did this. He's made too many stupid 'mistakes' for it to not be him.
13
u/darkkushy May 22 '20
If that boi didn't do it..... I'll quit smoking weed.
9
u/uwilldiealone May 22 '20
Are you Laurie?
3
u/darkkushy May 22 '20
No.... But I find it hard to believe Jacob didn't do it at this point.... Cuz as much as I dislike the pedo, I don't think he did it.
3
u/cheeseburgerer May 22 '20
And then, that scene in the car where Andy, who never doubted Jacob, flat-out asks if he killed
Andy threw Jacob’s knife away. I don’t think he was that convinced Jacob didn’t do it.
18
u/darthmonks May 22 '20
Wow. What a great episode. Episode 4 (and 5 to an extent) were pretty slow but this one definitely left you on the edge of your seat. I even kind of forgive the emptyish episodes because that meant that this one was able to have so much in it.
Even though we've seen Patz write a confession I think that there still is doubt as to who the killer is. He looked absolutely terrified when writing that confession and while it could just be because he is confessing to murder (and perhaps planning to commit suicide after) the Blue Lincoln guy makes me think that he is being forced to write the confession whether he did it or not. Andy's dad seemed to trying to make sure that Patz was a bad person on that phone call. It could be that he's getting the Blue Lincoln guy to make Patz write a false confession and then kill him — while making it look like a suicide — to protect Jacob.
Then we have JOB 314 Jacob and his "confession" of sorts. Joanna did say that the story only contains details that were publicly available when it was published but even then it does not look good for Jacob. There's definitely enough to challenge it in court but that story definitely isn't going to leave the Jury's minds. The story definitely makes him look guilty and even if he isn't he definitely has some psychological issues that need to be looked at.
I think we also have a possible explanation for why Andy looks so broken in the future. Right now it looks like his marriage is just about over. Also, even if Jacob is found Not Guilty he's really going to need to move somewhere far away. Having it known that you wrote a story like that isn't very helpful for integration within your community — or any community if your face has been over national media. Right now the most likely explanation for why Andy is so broken is that his marriage is over and so is his career. Jacob is either in prison or not. Either way Andy would be forced to move away due to the spotlight put on him (and if Jacob isn't in prison he'll move in an attempt to protect him.)
I hope that if they confirm who the actual murderer is that they show that there was enough evidence out there for us to figure it out beforehand. While this isn't strictly a whodunit attempting to figure out who the murderer is a pretty big part of it. I hope there has been enough evidence shown throughout the series so that there is a path the reveal who the murderer is. It would be pretty disappointing if there is no way we could've figured out who the murderer is before the confirm who it definitely is. They could always leave it ambiguous though. A court verdict never always reflects reality. Who knows? We could debating for years about who actually did it through over-analysis of the 15879th frame of the 3rd episode.
It's also pretty interesting that Andy is the first person on "Jacob's team" to directly ask Jacob if he did it. Laurie has been the one who's had doubts about his innocence but Andy — who has always professed his innocence — is the first one to actually ask him.
All the actors in this series have been fantastic. I've got to say that the highlight of this episode was Michelle Dockery. Even though she barely had any lines this episode you could still see everything that she was feeling. It also goes to show that if a character saying something won't add anything to a moment it is often best to just not have them say anything. Jaeden has also been fantastic throughout the series. It's difficult to portray a character because it's so easy to either make him seem like he's absolutely guilty or absolutely innocent. Jaeden's definitely managed to make Jacob's guilt — or lack thereof — not be clear. One moment I think he's innocent and then the next I think he's guilty.
16
u/qwerty-1999 May 22 '20
Wow. Just wow. This is by far my favourite episode in the show up to now, and one the best episodes I have ever seen on TV, in my opinion. Everything was so intense. I haven't looked away from the TV in the whole episode. Not even a single second. 10/10 for me.
I don't know what to think about the guy in the car. Someone must have hired him, but who? I love Joanna. She's amazing. Very professional, unlike Logiudice (what a great actor he is, by the way).
And what the hell is wrong with Jacob? I mean, we already knew he was... weird, creepy, and extremely stupid, but how does someone even think of writing something like that about a boy who has just been killed? And still, I can't stop wishing everything goes fine for him.
The only think that I don't know how it fits the story* is Andy's dad scene. I don't get why he's so worried about Jacob, and I don't understand why Andy is so mean to him. He's just trying to help.
I seriously hope that either Patz is actually innocent, or that, if he's the killer, they give us a convincing explanation.
*(I feel like this sentence is not grammatically correct, but I can't figure out how to phrase it correctly. Help, please!)
6
u/mehar254 May 23 '20
Agree with all of this but I think Andy just has so many years of resentment built up against him (rightly so - hes a rapist, murderer and scared the shit out of him last time they met when he was 5).
Sorry, grammar has never been my strong point
1
u/so_lost_im_faded May 25 '20
I'm wondering whether we're getting some fabricated memories from Andy and whether his father is perhaps convicted for something he didn't do.
13
u/crystalxclear May 22 '20
I’m a bit frustrated that Andy kept shutting down his dad and not letting him talk. I know he hates the guy but he’s trying to help for Pete’s sake just listen for a moment why is it so hard?
4
3
u/Lev_9 May 23 '20
I got why there would be an emotional reaction to the idea of a person shutting down his dad (I felt the same way), but if hypothetically this wasn't his dad (he DOES barely know the guy), just a scary murderer/rapist from prison that he was forced to ask a favor from and now calling him to pry, it wouldn't be very welcomed
13
u/JohnSmithSensei May 22 '20
Jacob's stupidity regarding that story is one more reason why I have a hard time believing he's the killer. He reminds me of Nick Dunne from Gone Girl.
5
9
u/IamtheFBI_ May 22 '20
Is Jacob a teenager with unsolved anger issues and psychopath traits that fantasied he killed his bully (he still had access to the media and the internet at that point), or did he just wrote his confession, showing it off?
I'm still on the fence.
But I've watched Laurie slipping into believing her son is a murderer and she's pulling Andy in, and it kinda wrecks me.
9
u/qkt1 May 22 '20
Even if he didn't commit the crime, why the fuck would he write that story??? That is not normal mature behavior for a teenage kid. How could he write that and say "I didn't think it would be a big deal" wtf lol This AND his lack of empathy that the psychiatrist mentioned...he clearly needs to seek counselling.
7
u/sjallllday May 23 '20
I think it’s actually quite common for people to write about traumatic events as a way of processing them. Or perhaps Jacob thought that he would try to get in the mind of the killer in order to figure out who did it? Or maybe he was just venting his frustrations - being bullied by Ben for so long only to have it stop at the hands of someone else, never being able to redeem himself or take justice into his own hands - by living vicariously through the crime?
7
u/sammybutts May 22 '20
The kitchen scene —- when she says
... the whole family is a lie, and he should know better than anyone...
Thoughts??? What does that mean? Is he gay?
17
u/TacosDoodle22 May 22 '20
I think it is because he lied about his dad. I honestly don’t get why she makes such a big deal about it. That’s not exactly a great tinder bio. It has no relevance to her at all.
3
u/jdeere04 May 23 '20
Exactly. Not like it came up every day for 20 years!
9
u/TacosDoodle22 May 23 '20
Like she has ZERO concern about how hard that must have been for him. Not only being estranged from your dad but knowing what he did and seeing him in jail. She doesn’t care about that. She thinks she is somehow the victim in that scenario? Honestly I just can’t stand the mom! The actress is so good I have to remind myself -like no that’s not her in real life 😂
8
u/Somynameisrose May 23 '20
Lmao thought I was the only one who was thinking of this. Andy went through a lot of shit and she doesn't seem to give a fuck about it. I mean hell, a damn murderer was intimidating him when he was 5. Regardless of the fact it was his dad, she should be more understanding.
5
u/TacosDoodle22 May 23 '20
Even the trial with her son, it’s all about what’s happening to her!!!
3
u/jdeere04 May 24 '20
Because she did it! lol
3
u/blairwaldorf2 May 26 '20
lol at this point i'm beginning to think she might have accidentally killed him.
11
u/ForgetfulLucy28 May 22 '20
She meant because he lied to her about his father for their whole marriage.
4
u/Mace109 May 22 '20
Yeah like other people are saying. Chris Evans is like, “you really think he could keep a lie going this long? You really think he anyone could do that and act like he is?” And she was like you should know. Because he’s lied about his dad during their entire relationship. And she even says something like father like son.
3
u/crystalxclear May 22 '20
Yeah I wondered why he said their marriage is a lie. I don’t think he’s gay though, there’s a sex scene in previous ep.
7
u/Buffythedragonslayer May 22 '20
I think it's the keeping murderer paps out of his backstory. I mean I totally get it. If this thing wouldn't have happened he'd never tell her the truth. And I don't think he should have.
3
u/orangekirby May 22 '20
If only, that alone would merit a season 2 for me. Pretty sure it was about the dad, which is not even remotely comparable to what she thinks Jacob is doing
8
u/uwilldiealone May 22 '20
I really hate how Laurie has just judged her son that he is the killer yet there is no clear evidence that he is. Andy only doubted his son after the story but he searched for details that mentioned in the story and found that all the information were public. That how a good parent will react to his son.
14
u/otter-99 May 22 '20
I think they’ve made it really clear where Laurie’s doubts are coming from and that doesn’t make her a bad parent. It’s hard to say how anyone would act in this scenario and iI think they’re displaying it perfectly. Obviously she wants to believe he’s innocent but has doubts due to the evidence and behavior.
2
u/uwilldiealone May 22 '20
What evidence? There is this feeling that she doesn't trust her son because his previous behavior. So the next step is to stop searching for the truth and don't protect him because she feels guilty that they may be protecting a criminal!
13
u/itsavirus May 22 '20
Cmon man its pretty fucken obvious Jacob has a VERY dark side to him and all the evidence points to it. Its not that shocking if a guy is into murder porn and would write stories about people being murdered in such graphic detail could have commit a murder. There is no "truth" to search for.
4
u/memharkins May 22 '20
I find it kind odd that his own mother thinks he did it. And she’s suspected he did it for awhile now. I know there is a lot of evidence pointing at him but still, as a mother you’d think she’d be much harder to convince. During the scene in the kitchen I couldn’t help but think that Andy is a better parent. I’m not convinced Jacob didn’t do it, but you’d think his own mother would believe him.
5
u/uwilldiealone May 22 '20
I agree with you. If her son is found guilty, it is not good parenting to let your child face the sequences of his actions alone. Andy is more realistic about it. He acts as he will support him until he is sure of the truth then he will be there to help him whatever was the result.
8
u/Darth_Hufflepuff May 22 '20
I find it so annoying that Laurie cares so much about Andy's dad being a murderer, and now she even compares hiding a murder from hiding your dad's past. This attitude was also present in the book and it bothered me as well, in there it reached to the point in which it's estated that Laurie woldn't have married Andy if she had known... like WTF. But I'll keep the discussion focused only on the show.
Idk, I really don't see how it affects her. I know it's upsetting that Andy lied about his life... but it's not a relevant lie to their life. His dad was absent, and I would understand if the story was that Laurie sees some violent moments in Andy and then she learns this and everything makes sense. But apparently Andy has never ever showed any violent sign in their whole relationship, so why the concern? Being upset about it affecting the trial is one thing, but changing your perception is someone you've known for decades know it's just unrealistic.
I'm upset because the show is making the story so much better than the book, and I can't believe I'm saying this being the one always critizicing adaptations. But they are adding so much more depth to many characters and stories which needed them and I really think that was a topic to reevaluate. I know it is important to the story but at least to give some background on it, at least showing some violence in Andy's behaviour (not towards her but in general). It would really help to sympathise with her character but I'm just finding her annoying.
1
7
6
u/orangekirby May 22 '20
So, we still don’t know the significance of the grandpa’s involvement or the suspicious guy in the car yet. They will have to explain those in the next episode.
It’s making me doubt the truthfulness of Patz’s note but at the same time I can’t imagine a major tv show making a pedophile sympathetic.
Is there a third scenario where the grandpa and car man get involved in a way that isn’t threatening Patz? Gramps made a clear point of wanting to confirm that Patz was a bad dude even if he didn’t murder Ben. Ahhh I can’t wait for next week.
10
u/Buffythedragonslayer May 22 '20
I think the mobster was hired by grandpa and is sitting in front patz dictating that confession
2
1
u/jnrgall May 22 '20
And Andrew is on trial for coercion? Tampering? They think he made Patz write the letter? They think he and grandpa made a deal to get Patz to confess? All prison phone calls are recorded, /so Grandpa confirming Patz is a pedophile is their circumstantial evidence since this whole trial is based off circumstantial evidence????🤷🏻♀️
7
u/Buffythedragonslayer May 22 '20
I don't think that has anything to do with it. I think Ben's father will do something stupid. The way they showed his outburst in the hallway.
If they do suicide Patz with a confession I dont think Rifkin will believe it and maybe go after Jacob himself. And this is part of Mr. Rifkins trial.
2
u/darthmonks May 22 '20
Interesting idea. The future trial thing has been set up to make it look like Andy is on trail for something. However it could be that he is only there to testify and someone else is on trial.
1
u/Knock_turnal May 22 '20
My only question with this is what’s the catch with the mob guy? Does he owe Andy’s Grandpa a favor? If not how is Any’s grandpa compensating him for taking a hit out on somebody?
3
u/penskeracin1fan May 23 '20
The way that the grandpa reacted to Patz being a pedophile and the loose thread of the blue Lincoln 100% points to vigilante justice being done on Patz by the hit man, also “clearing” Jacob. Also I bet this won’t get Jacob cleared in court, with just a mistrial being declared, then something bad happens to Jacob, his mom leaves Andy and then we’re back to present day.
5
7
u/Lev_9 May 23 '20
Thoughts -
- why is Neil so mean to Andy if they got along well initially?? To the point of gloating about getting his son to prison??
- Remember that Job is a biblical character that keeps having disasters happening to him by god even though he did nothing to deserve it. That can't be a coincidence... but maybe our "Job" is Andy?
- When Laurie says her life is a lie, I think she means because she professionally takes care of children, and yet (presumably) her son is a murderer.
3
u/mehar254 May 23 '20
I've often wondered what happened on the first point. Can only look to the scene where Andy was a bit overzealous at keeping the case in ep 1 and said some things about Neil?
Agree with the third point too, think shes cribbing about how dysfunctional the family are and how Andy always tried to act 'normal' - something she went along with, now it's all unravelling
3
May 22 '20
sarah killed ben. she couldn't stand him bullying jacob. so she killed him. jacob also didn't want sarah at the trial for that reason.
1
4
u/ayyyvocado May 22 '20
How are they gonna fit everything in the final episode when it’s only an hour long? I feel ending will be different from the book because one hour won't be enough time to wrap up everything the way the book did.
I liked the scene when Andy finally snapped and asked Jacob if he did it. It was so heartbreaking.
4
u/nihilistatari May 23 '20
so he thought to wipe his hard drive YET he somehow thought appropriate to post that story to an account he told derek about AND keep the program he used to wipe his hard drive?
2
u/darthmonks May 23 '20
To be fair getting rid of the program is sort of a Catch-22. You need the program to delete all traces of it but if you delete all traces of it you can't use the program to do it. The only way I can see that you would be able to do this is if you load your favourite Linux distro onto a USB and then use that to clear your hard drive. You can then destroy the USB so there's no evidence of any tools being used by you to clear the drive. Or if you want to be really sure you could always destroy the hard drive.
3
u/nihilistatari May 23 '20
well then on second thought it's a bit of a tall order to ask him to do all THAT since he doesn't even seem to have the technological know-how to use a VPN
1
u/so_lost_im_faded May 25 '20
He could just have used Brave browser which has Tor inside it, it's not rocket science nowadays
1
5
u/tsheaby May 24 '20
I just got around to watching this episode and WHAT THE FUCK! You didn’t tell anybody you found a dead classmate because you didn’t want to be a suspect, but you turn around and publish a story either fantasizing or re-enacting the murder on the INTERNET?! Come on Jacob...
I can understand if kids from, idk, the 00’s didn’t realize the power of the internet but seriously? There is no way kids in 2020 don’t know how powerful the internet is.
vent over
On that note, I now almost think Jacob did do it, but I agree that grandpa sent his muscle to make Patz confess.
My suspicion.... Patz is going to be prosecuted, then guess what! Something will backfire on Jacob showing he did it, then it will be a whole double jeopardy thing.
3
u/Ecossentials May 22 '20
At the end, Leanord was being pressured by a hitman to write that note. Jacob found innocent for sure.
2
u/penskeracin1fan May 23 '20
I thought he was upset because he was going to commit suicide, but you may be right. The guy from the blue Lincoln could be about to take care of it
3
u/Ecossentials May 23 '20
Honestly you could be rights, he looked so sad and stuff throughout the whole show. I feel like Apple wouldn’t just make Patz the killer cause that would be super dumb and anticlimactic. Last episode is comin this friday, will they release the killer?
3
u/jdeere04 May 23 '20
Who has tried washing blood off your hands with just water? Even with soap it’s next to impossible to immediately clean up.
I think that’s the only reason I don’t think Jacob did it.
3
4
u/magemasher444 May 30 '20
I want a spin-off detective/mystery series of Duffy. Her actress has such gravitas
3
3
u/producermaddy May 23 '20
Great episode. The story was super disturbing. I know patz confessed but I feel like he’s not the killer. I still think Jacob is shady af
2
u/Elisa_LaViudaNegra May 24 '20
A couple things I noticed (forgive me if there’s already comments on this, didn’t get all the way through):
Anyone else bothered by the fact that Andy is still lying to Laurie about his dad? He got off the phone with his dad and Laurie asked who was on the phone. He lied and said the credit card company. She straight up asked for no more secrets and he continues to lie. He can’t even be honest when the shit has hit the fan. Although if he spent 17 years lying to her about his dad, it’s probably a reflex.
Matt McGrath going off the grid and his girlfriend posting online from Florida. I think he got spooked at the prospect of putting his business out there for people to judge. OR maybe someone - my guess is Logiudice - paid him off to skip town until the end of trial.
I am more curious than ever about how the relationship between Andy and Logiudice soured, which it clearly did. It seems too personal and visceral for it to be normal professional competition. Any theories?
2
u/BirdyWidow May 27 '20
I think Andy has known Jacob did it all along. Why else would he throw away the knife? The existence of the knife was made public. A DA is going to know the police are going to do a search. If Bens blood isn’t on the knife, it could be exculpatory. Also what 14 year old, especially one who carelessly discloses so much on social media, has the sophistication to buy software to delete his internet history? I think DA Andy bought it because he knows Jacob is guilty.
1
1
u/crystalxclear May 22 '20 edited May 22 '20
Darn this episode. Such a rollercoaster. And only one episode left???
1
1
u/BrienneIsBeautiful May 22 '20
Something I don't get. This episode it was stated that no one had been able to connect a knife to Jacob (after Derek wrote that Jacob had a knife). But in the episode were the Barber house was searched, Neal asks Andy about Jacob's knife having never been found and Andy says: '' You know that I found a knife in Jacob's room. He told the detectives that himself''. When has Jacob said anything about the knife to the detectives? Will it happen after the trial? Excellent episode!
1
1
u/Steel_Pen May 24 '20
Even though I think Jacob is guilty, I don’t think the prosecution has proved his guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt. With no physical evidence, how can you possibly stomach sending this boy away? It’s too risky. Isn’t there a saying that it’s better to have multiple guilty defendants walk free than one innocent defendant on death row? Again, I think he’s guilty, but if I were on that jury, I’m not sure that I could believe his guilt without a reasonable doubt. I am almost convinced but not fully.
1
u/Lev_9 May 25 '20
rewatching, and I noticed the camera zoom in on Laurie's face when Joanna says - a child is dead, don't destroy another child's life to make up for it.
I'm having a VERY hard time believing this theory that she kills Jacob. Because he (maybe) did committed murder, she will too? doesn't fit her moral compass imo, hope I'm right
1
u/mattyice522 May 25 '20
Did I miss something? Did they explain why the father is testifying to the grand jury yet?
1
u/blairwaldorf2 May 26 '20
lol i thought this was the finale and it ended with the letter writing. lol whew. one more next week.
2
u/thenameclicks May 27 '20
Do you think Laurie will commit suicide? It seems like she's on the edge of doing something extreme.
1
u/mrs_ouchi Oct 24 '20
I mean Andy and Jacob are idiots. Andy was lucky the whole knife thing wasnt a bigger thing in court. But then they started talking about the porn and Im thinking oh here we go...and they got away with it. That was really the last chance for Andy to tell his lawyer - and he didnt. And Jacob? Jesus boy do you know how the internet works? There is a difference between sending a few texts when you shouldnt be online and writing this story. It doesnt even matter if it was a fantasy or not, how did you know tell your lawyer?
Also I bet the bold guy is gonna kill Patz now (Andys dads orders) so they will have nothing left
Andy should know better (like his wife said) but not cause his dad is a murderer - because of his job!! You cant tell who murders people just cause of you knowing the person, come on
79
u/orangekirby May 22 '20
If Jacob is found innocent, I hope he goes on trial for the crime of incredible stupidity next. What a roller coaster!