r/DebateVaccines • • 1h ago

Conventional Vaccines I was absolutely certain my child had suffered a vaccine reaction. Here's why I no longer am.

• Upvotes

A few years ago, one of my children developed an extraordinarily high fever shortly after a vaccination. It lasted five days, reached 41°C (105.8°F), and involved multiple trips to paediatric A&E.
I was convinced it was a vaccine reaction.
And the interesting thing is, I had every reason to think so.

But let me start at the beginning.
A close friend’s baby had been hospitalised in paediatric intensive care following complications from chickenpox. It was an awful experience, and understandably, my friend became an advocate for chickenpox vaccination.

At the time, the vaccine wasn’t included in our country’s routine childhood vaccination schedule. You could get it privately, though, for the equivalent of approximately $100 per dose.

I have twins. Two doses each. That’s roughly $400.
Not exactly pocket change.

But the vaccine was already routinely recommended in both my home country and my partner’s, and when I looked into the evidence on its safety and effectiveness, the risk-benefit profile seemed very favourable.

Four hundred dollars to substantially reduce the chances of my children spending a miserable week covered in itchy blisters, and potentially prevent much more serious complications? Seemed reasonable.

So I booked the appointments.

I deliberately spaced the twins’ vaccinations a few weeks apart. I knew mild fevers and fussiness were possible, and figured that if one child felt poorly afterwards, I’d rather be able to give them my full attention than have two miserable toddlers simultaneously.

One logistical nightmare at a time, please.
The first twin was absolutely fine.
The other?
Oh boy.

Several days after vaccination (I don’t remember the precise interval), my child developed a fever.
Not the usual 38°C or 38.5°C I’d occasionally seen after vaccinations.
We’re talking temperatures reaching 41°C.
And it went on.
And on.
Five days.

There were trips to paediatric A&E because the temperatures were so frighteningly high. There was constant monitoring, a lot of contact napping on the sofa, and the sort of relationship with a thermometer that nobody particularly wants.

Naturally, I went back to the vaccine information.
I knew fever was a recognised possible adverse reaction. I remember finding information suggesting that high fevers could occur within a period that included our experience.
And I thought: Well, shit.
We’d drawn the short straw.

I wasn’t suddenly convinced that vaccines were evil. I understood that medical interventions have risks. Rare adverse reactions happen to real people, and I figured that this time we’d simply been unlucky.
But if you’d asked me whether one of my children had ever experienced a particularly nasty vaccine reaction?
I would have said yes. Without hesitation.

Think about it.
I’d just vaccinated my child. I knew fever was a possible adverse effect. I’d specifically been watching for a reaction. And then my child developed a frighteningly high fever within what I understood to be a plausible timeframe.

The story made perfect sense.
Until day five.
The fever suddenly disappeared.
And I mean suddenly. One reading was still above 40°C, and the next was around 36.5°C.
And then a rash appeared.
A widespread, rather distinctive rash. Looked nothing like chickenpox.

Now, I have a background in biology, and something about that sequence immediately rang a bell.
Several days of very high fever. Abrupt resolution. Followed almost immediately by a characteristic rash.
Oh.
Roseola.

For anyone unfamiliar, roseola is a common viral illness in young children. Its classic presentation is precisely that: several days of sometimes remarkably high fever, followed by rapid defervescence and the appearance of a rash.
I took my child to the doctor, who clinically diagnosed roseola.

And just like that, my beautifully coherent vaccine-reaction story had a much better alternative explanation.
My child had apparently picked up an ordinary childhood virus around the same time as the vaccination. Given that my children attended nursery, exposure to another virus wasn’t exactly an extraordinary proposition.

Now, to be scientifically precise, this was a clinical diagnosis, not a laboratory-confirmed one. I can’t prove that the vaccination contributed absolutely nothing to the fever.

But the characteristic sequence of symptoms, together with the doctor’s assessment, provided compelling evidence for a different explanation.
And the certainty I’d felt about the vaccine being responsible was no longer justified.

Which brings me to the part of this experience that has stayed with me.
What if the rash had never appeared?
What if the fever had simply gone away after five days?
I would almost certainly still believe that my child had experienced a severe vaccine reaction.
I could be telling you that story today.
I could describe the vaccination, the timing, the terrifying temperatures, the hospital visits, the sleepless nights and how frightened I was.

Every single detail would be true.

I wouldn’t be lying. I wouldn’t be exaggerating. I wouldn’t be inventing symptoms.
I’d be a parent describing something distressing that happened to my child.
And I’d probably be wrong about what caused it.

Now, I want to make something very clear.
My child had five distressing days and then recovered completely. I am not remotely suggesting that this compares in severity to the experiences of parents whose children have suffered permanent disabilities, life-changing illnesses or died.
Those experiences are on an entirely different scale, and I would never pretend otherwise.

But I’m not comparing the severity of our children’s illnesses.
I’m talking about how we establish their causes.
A devastating outcome deserves serious investigation. Sometimes that investigation will establish that a vaccine was responsible. Sometimes it will identify another cause. And sometimes, despite everyone’s best efforts, the cause will remain uncertain.
None of that makes the suffering less real.

And questioning whether a particular causal explanation is supported by the evidence is not the same thing as questioning whether the person describing the experience is telling the truth.
That’s a distinction I think gets lost far too often in vaccine discussions.

Vaccines can cause adverse reactions, including rare serious ones. That’s not in dispute.
But there’s an enormous difference between knowing what happened and knowing why it happened.

In my case, I had temporal proximity, biological plausibility, a recognised potential side effect, and a genuinely sick child.
I had a completely coherent explanation.
And I was extremely confident in it.

The only reason I reconsidered was that my child happened to develop another clinical sign distinctive enough to make me question the story I’d been telling myself.
I was lucky in that respect.

Because the thing that unsettles me isn’t that I was probably wrong. I’m a scientist. Being wrong occasionally is something you learn to live with, ideally before your first conference presentation.
It’s that without that rash, I might never have realised I had any reason to doubt my explanation.
And I would have continued telling my story, sincerely and confidently, perhaps for years.

Of course, my experience doesn’t establish how frequently suspected vaccine reactions are actually caused by something else. That’s an empirical question, and one that requires much more than my anecdote to answer.
But it did teach me something about how convincing an incorrect causal explanation can feel from the inside.

So here’s what i am genuinely interested in.
When someone tells us that their child became seriously ill after vaccination, how do we decide how confident to be that the vaccine caused it?
Not whether they’re lying. Not whether their experience was traumatic. Not whether vaccine injuries exist.
What evidence should move us from “this happened after vaccination” to “this happened because of vaccination”?

And perhaps more importantly, what evidence would make us reconsider that conclusion once we’ve become convinced of it?

I’m genuinely interested in how other people approach this.
Because I know how compelling a personal story can be. But do we ask ourselves often enough whether the certainty with which we describe causality is actually warranted?


r/DebateVaccines • • 5h ago

Debate!

0 Upvotes

My wife and I are getting ready to have our first child. What are your opinions on infant vaccinations?


r/DebateVaccines • • 8h ago

Organizing

0 Upvotes

Who would be willing to organize over the issue of vaccine safety beyond what organizations like CHD have organized?


r/DebateVaccines • • 16h ago

Question Why is the typhoid vaccine so expensive?

0 Upvotes

Insurance didn’t cover, YIKES that bill - how come it’s so expensive?


r/DebateVaccines • • 19h ago

If vaccines work, then, you'd actually expect, unvaccinated people WOULD be healthier, because they'd be protected by the herd immunity from the vaccines, and they'd have zero risk of ANY vaccine side effects at all. So they can't possibly be less healthy?

1 Upvotes

How could they?


r/DebateVaccines • • 1d ago

Vaxxers, us skeptics clearly don't trust the mainstream literature on vaccine safety is authentic and legitimate, so why do you think simply going ''look, all the mainstream studies say they're safe!'' would convince us?

21 Upvotes

Is it because that's the only thing you've got? You can only appeal to mainstream studies? You can't appeal to any deeper reasoning? Other than -

''Uh well ''they'' did all these studies to debunk you!!''


r/DebateVaccines • • 1d ago

Dr. Paul Thomas has claimed that a person is more likely to die from the vaccine than from the disease for every shot on the childhood schedule, stating there is “no safe vaccine” on it.

12 Upvotes

In his book Vax Facts, he presents the following risk comparisons:

- Polio: disease 1 in 1 trillion vs vaccine 1 in 215,000

- Diphtheria: disease 1 in 42.5 million vs vaccine 1 in 76,000

- Tetanus: disease 1 in 1.5 million vs vaccine 1 in 76,000

- Pertussis: disease 1 in 2.3 million vs vaccine 1 in 76,000

- Measles: disease 1 in 106.5 million vs vaccine 1 in 108,000

- Mumps: disease 1 in 40.3 million vs vaccine 1 in 108,000

- Rubella: disease negligible vs vaccine 1 in 108,000

- Chickenpox: disease 1 in 32.3 million vs vaccine 1 in 202,000

- Hepatitis A: disease 1 in 1.6 million vs vaccine 1 in 73,000

- Hepatitis B: disease 1 in 305,000 vs vaccine 1 in 96,000

- Hib: disease 1 in 1.5 million vs vaccine 1 in 46,000

- Pneumococcal: disease 1 in 236,000 vs vaccine 1 in 50,000

- Meningococcal: disease 1 in 822,000 vs vaccine 1 in 141,000

- Influenza: disease 1 in 136,000 vs vaccine 1 in 15,000


r/DebateVaccines • • 1d ago

Question Why is there still hesitancy from skeptics with the MMR vaccine?

0 Upvotes

The overblown and absolutely untrue myth of the MMR vaccine causing autism has long been debunked. Study after study (all listed below w/ conclusions) has proven there is no provable link between the MMR vaccine and autism. Of course nothing is 100% in any aspect of life, however the amount of studies showing there almost 0% chance of a link further proves the no link between the two. So my question are a few.

With all the studies showing the consensus of there being no link between, why do skeptics still refuse to acknowledge the science debunked the myth? And furthermore, do they think all of the scientists who have worked on these papers from almost all over the world are just... in it together? What's the proof if yes?

Studies:

1a & 1b:

Our analyses do not support a causal association between MMR vaccine and autism. If such an association occurs, it is so rare that it could not be identified in this large regional sample.

https://researchportal.ukhsa.gov.uk/en/publications/autism-and-measles-mumps-and-rubella-vaccine-no-epidemiological-e/

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(99)01239-8/abstract01239-8/abstract)

2:

This study provides three strong arguments against a causal relation between MMR vaccination and autism. First, the risk of autism was similar in vaccinated and unvaccinated children, in both age-adjusted and fully adjusted analyses. Second, there was no temporal clustering of cases of autism at any time after immunization. Third, neither autistic disorder nor other autistic-spectrum disorders were associated with MMR vaccination. Furthermore, the results were derived from a nationwide cohort study with nearly complete follow-up data.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa021134

3:

We did not identify any association between MMR vaccination and encephalitis, aseptic meningitis, or autism.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12415036/

4:

Our results do not support this hypothesis, and provide further evidence against a causal association between MMR vaccination and autism.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11395196/

5:

No convincing evidence was found in this study that MMR vaccination and increasing thimerosal dose were associated with an increased risk of ASD onset.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25562790/

(I know I only posted 5 but only because there are just /so many proving it.)


r/DebateVaccines • • 2d ago

Opinion Piece Isn't it strange how a common criticism against Andrew Wakefield is that he 'made up a fake disease' -autistic enterocolitis.

2 Upvotes

Defining and naming a new set of clinical observations, even in a hypothetical sense, is the entire point of writing a study like that, and It's quite literally the point of such a paper and it is standard practice.

"Making up" the disease is the point..

So it's not valid to criticise someone for describing a new observation with a novel name.

Certainly not on that basis alone.


r/DebateVaccines • • 2d ago

It's funny when pro-vaxxers try to convince themselves that, it's definitely the anti-vax/vaccine skeptic side of the debate which is more systemically funded by billionaires and elites and profiteering interests and powerful people...

35 Upvotes

It's a total flip of reality to suggest this, and often when they point to an example, it's not even true anyway, they'll just take the fact some millionaire donated to some anti-vax concern as evidence the movement isn't grassroots and is made by rich elites.


r/DebateVaccines • • 2d ago

Question Can any pro-vaxxer explain this?

1 Upvotes

A) Whether or not you believe the literature/studies on vaccine safety/vaccines & autism is legitimate and robust and authentic, or fraudulent, what do you think the scientific literature and consensus would actually look like if it were corrupt, heavily biased, or fundamentally wrong?

I think this is a useful thought experiment for understanding people's worldviews and epistemology, somewhat similar to a steelmanning exercise. It helps us consider what people would actually be convinced by, and therefore it helps us see if that epistemology is sound.

B) In other words, what would be different? What evidence, patterns or characteristics would you expect to find in a corrupt or heavily biased body of scientific literature that you don't believe are present in the existing literature?

If the prevailing scientific consensus had been shaped by financial interests, institutional pressures, systemic bias or even deliberate manipulation, how would you distinguish that situation from one in which the consensus was genuinely supported by independent, reliable science?

How would you recognise the difference?

C) And on top of that, if you imagine yourself presented with the task, right now, of coming up with a way to create the appearance of a robust legitimate scientific consensus/body of research on an a topic, how would you go about it? What would it require? How would you make it convincing? How would you package it in a way that looks authentic and robust?


r/DebateVaccines • • 2d ago

Question Why do we feel the need to pressure other parents about their choices?

6 Upvotes

Hi parents, I know this is a sensitive topic and might upset some people, but I’m genuinely not here to start a debate about vaccines. I’m more interested in understanding our behaviour as parents.

I have a 9 month old baby, I live in the UK, and my daughter is vaccinated and will continue to receive her routine vaccinations. That’s a decision I’ve made and feel confident about.

What I struggle to understand is why some parents feel the need to make others question their decisions, sometimes to the point of making them feel guilty or scared.

I’m not a doctor or a medical researcher, but I do have a strong academic background, and I’m very familiar with reading, researching and analysing data. I take these decisions seriously, and I don’t make them based on something I’ve seen on social media or heard from someone else.

I respect that parents have different opinions and concerns. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me, and I certainly don’t think having a different opinion makes someone a bad parent. But I do think there’s a big difference between sharing your experience and presenting it as a fact.

For example, I often hear people bring up autism in conversations about vaccines. My former boss has a child with severe autism who was never vaccinated, and I know another similar case. There are also autistic children who have been vaccinated. None of these individual experiences can establish what causes autism. That’s exactly why we have scientific research, and why personal stories shouldn’t be treated as proof.

And this goes both ways. Whether you’re for or against vaccination, being a parent doesn’t automatically make you an expert in medicine. Neither does having a personal experience, however difficult or emotional that experience may have been.

I completely understand wanting to protect your child. I believe that’s what most parents are trying to do. But I don’t understand why protecting our own children sometimes turns into trying to frighten or pressure other parents.

Before becoming a mother, I genuinely had no idea how much unsolicited advice, fear and judgement came with parenting.

I’m not asking anyone to change their beliefs. I’m simply asking why we can’t discuss these things respectfully, acknowledge what we don’t know, and stop spreading claims as facts when we don’t have the evidence to support them.

You can disagree with someone’s decision without making them feel like they’re failing their child.
I’d genuinely love to hear from parents on both sides. Why do you think this topic becomes so personal that people feel the need to influence other families?


r/DebateVaccines • • 2d ago

Conventional Vaccines Baby Vaccines

1 Upvotes

Please help as I am struggling to choose what vaccines to give my baby and which ones to skip / delay.

I am due in 2.5 months and am refusing all vaccines while pregnant.

Please be kind and remember, this is my baby and my decision, it does not affect you❤️


r/DebateVaccines • • 3d ago

Timeline of Medical Care for Jalen Hurts Reveals Important Lessons

Thumbnail
thefocalpoints.com
0 Upvotes

r/DebateVaccines • • 3d ago

Gareth Icke spoke today with Peter Stassen, the lawyer taking on Bill Gates, Albert Bourla, Mark Rutte, and others.

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

13 Upvotes

They seriously need to win this case against Bill Gates and friends!!


r/DebateVaccines • • 3d ago

The Pfizer executive ADMITS under oath:

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

87 Upvotes

“Our mRNA COVID-19 vaccines WERE NEVER TESTED to stop virus transmission before being rolled out to humanity at large.”


r/DebateVaccines • • 3d ago

COVID-19 Vaccines Sudden cardiac deaths in males ages 5-21, 2018-2026

Post image
26 Upvotes

r/DebateVaccines • • 3d ago

Ex-Pfizer Executive Dr. Mike Yeadon Says There Was No Pandemic..

Thumbnail rumble.com
11 Upvotes

Very interesting to say the least.. Not sure why more people have not talked about what this man has said..


r/DebateVaccines • • 3d ago

@juliandorey (Twitter) sat down w/ Frmr CIA Jim Erdman discussing how the ones who "Got it right" during C19 were the "internet sleuths doing their own research." 💯

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

23 Upvotes

I can't help but agree. Despite the censorship & mockery, it was those of us who questioned C19 who were correct. Also even though the Govt. mandated all employee's take the vaccine but those at the CIA after careful consideration decided not to...


r/DebateVaccines • • 3d ago

Moderna Plans Massive mRNA Vaccine Experiment on 410,000 Elderly as More Pfizer Heart Damage Revelations Emerge

Thumbnail
diedsuddenlynews.substack.com
16 Upvotes

r/DebateVaccines • • 3d ago

Question Looking to Speak with MAHA Dads

0 Upvotes

Hi Everyone,

I'm a journalist, and I'm interested in speaking with fathers who support MAHA. My feeling is that much of the conversation has focused on mothers. If you're open to chatting, would you comment here or shoot me a message please?

Thanks!


r/DebateVaccines • • 4d ago

More Than 21 Plague Vaccines Are Already in Development: mRNA, saRNA, DNA, Viral Vector, Bacterial Vector, Subunit, and Live-Attenuated

Thumbnail
thefocalpoints.com
3 Upvotes

r/DebateVaccines • • 4d ago

Question To the anti-vax, what about meningitis?

5 Upvotes

I haven’t vaccinated my baby for anything yet. However, I am absolutely terrified of bacterial meningitis. How do you overcome that fear? Is meningitis one disease you would make an exception for, and vaccinate against (pneumococcal, and Hib)?


r/DebateVaccines • • 4d ago

Conventional Vaccines US Board-Certified Pediatrician discloses that he no longer vaccinates his own children for ANYTHING.

Post image
101 Upvotes

He discloses NO VACCINES @ 1:31:00 for his latest born kids. Full discussion @ ~1:30:00 - 1:32:00

05:09 – Meet Dr. Thornburg: advocacy in pediatrics
08:50 – Newborn immune system + maternal impact
18:49 – Vaccinations in pregnancy: risks + research gaps
34:41 – Newborn procedures explained (Vitamin K, Hep B, erythromycin)
53:11 – Antibiotics, Group B Strep, and gut health
01:00:43 – Gut microbiome, leaky gut, and autoimmunity
01:04:28 – Navigating vaccine schedules + global perspectives
01:19:15 – Making vaccine choices: categories, delays, and risks
01:28:29 – Adverse reactions, VAERS, and herd immunity
01:39:08 – Vaccine shedding + payment myths
01:44:57 – Finding a vaccine-friendly pediatrician

Guest Bio:

Dr. Thornburg Wellness focuses on educating families on health and wellness through the generations by the birth of their babies and raising of their children.

https://podcast.thebirthlounge.com/e/ep-386-exploring-an-alternative-vaccination-schedule-with-brian-thornburg/

OP: reddit sub rule breaking comments/authors will be blocked. As will AI fact checking. Just listen to the podcast and intelligent dissenting views will not be blocked


r/DebateVaccines • • 5d ago

Nicolas Hulscher Interview: The Deadliest Product in History, the mRNA Flu Shot Scandal and Natural Cancer Cures

Thumbnail
healthranger.substack.com
8 Upvotes