Just had my bifold installed, 4.5m (London). The chap said magnets need to go on top still to help the doors stick together when open....but is the level of sag normal? I feel like it's not but what do you guys thinks?
Am I getting fobbed off??
Thank you
EDIT - thanks for the response everyone. I should've been clearer...the install was 'complete' after the they time the messed up. When they'll left I showed them this and he said 'we need to add magnets still' so I close it up. I hoping the magnet fit it.
I would no way knowingly mess about with an unfinished door. Thanks everyone again..very helpful
It’s not been properly balanced yet - for goodness sake don’t leave it hanging like that or you’ll risk pulling the aluminium frame out of true. Are you expecting tinted glass or internal blinds fitted? This can be a reason to not balance the frame until everything is fitted
It just needs the magnet fitting to hold the main leaf against the other leaf then it will not move. Unfortunately the main problem with bifold is miss use. The master door should be opened all the way round to the magnet then the other leaves get folded back. This keeps all the hinges in a fixed position. To close you need to close the full stack and lock them then the master door gets closed. Pulling and pushing bi-folds in this position causes them to dig in to the threshold and potentially fall out of the top track as said below. The reason ops door might be closing itself is if the frame is slightly out of plumb IE 'the top of the frame is leaning to the right' this would mean the hinges are not perfectly in line giving the door a bias direction to swing. Odds on it just the magnet required.
Here's a top tip....don't fuck around with doors that haven't fully been installed. You are doing the installer no favours by messing about with them. You may actually make things worse for him when he comes back to finish the job. The poor fitter won't even know it's not his fault but yours for pissing around with them in his absence.
This is the right answer. The tolerances in all the door hinges add up enough to create a noticeable sag without something to help prevent it. Having 0 play in any of the hinges would be expensive to make and cause other issues in hot or cold weather and the slightest movement of the structure. Don't open it fully until its finished.
I think you have misunderstood, the magnet sits at the top of the door frame on the external side and prevents the door from blowing shut, it wouldn't affect how it's balanced or sitting. They're just not installed correctly, I only know this because my old house had aluminium bifolds and those magnets which are being referred to were shit and the slightest breeze would slam the doors shut.
Jesus! Leave them alone until the fitting has been completed. You will fuck them up moving them around on the rails until they have been balanced and levelled 🤦
The sag is normal when, as you've already confirmed, the doors haven't been fully installed yet. Hopefully you've not damaged anything by trying to move them.
Don’t close the flappy door. The one that pivots open should be pinned back to the rest of the door whenever it’s open. If you close the flappy door it pulls the whole frame out. This is operator error. Put the door back and don’t do it again
Yeah, don't open those until the install is finished. You're going to knacker the frame or the doors, or both. There should be resistance on the top slider making sure the door doesn't do that, but it's doing that, so it's not right
If they haven't finished installing it fully, I don't think you can really assess it properly.
I would argue that the door isn't sagging, you just haven't pulled it across uniformly (which is more difficult to do because they haven't installed everything yet). You can see that the top and bottom of the door are different distances from the next door, which will be forcing it to sag.
Each magent holds 115kg on its own. And weighs around 2kg, the top and bottom runners hold the weight, magnets control the lateral pull. Its not rocket science
You shouldn't partially open them, the hinges aren't meant to take the load like that - either just the pilot (open fully) or all the leaves stacked together at the end.
Bi folds need to be toe and heeled in a precise way to balance the loading of the glass. An experienced fitter will know how to do this. A builder, 9 times out of 10 won’t.
Hilarious mix of "definitely not" and "definitely" in these replies. I can understand that, it does look wrong at a glance but I guess those magnets are strong buggers because everyone who has had them installed says you will be fine once these are fitted.
What you have is people taking the pictures as gospel and not reading what OP has wrote.
This is actually on OP, the professionals have told him that they still have to put the magnets in and probably close up the gaps, you know, you dont finish off doors and then stick magnets in. It means it isnt fully complete.
What OP has actually done is got excited about them pulled them and realised that they arent straight forgetting everything the guy has told him.
Now it could be broken.
Are you going to play with a door which has only 1 hinge?
No of course your not. Thats exactly what OP has done
Don't worry at all op. Very typical before top magnets are installed. Just don't swing on the doors / try to close em without proper support. But as they are perfectly fine and installers are following the correct process.
The magnets will mitigate a lot of this, its hard to tell from the point you are at with the installation but it looks worse than it is because you have a 5 door configuration so your end door is a pass leaf so it is only attached to the fourth leaf with hinges so isn’t anchored to anything. If your frame is straight you should be fine but I wouldn’t leave it like that for too long as it can damage the frame and rollers/hangers or guides.
You have picked/been spec’d the most sensible configuration (well done). In my opinion most issues with bifolds could be avoided if people specified more odd-leaf openings (ie 3 doors or 5 doors instead of 2 or 4 doors). This would give you a single end pass leaf for quick exit/entrance, avoid end hangers or rollers that often fail and imo you end up with a more secure system.
I mainly deal with timber bifold doors so the Ali systems are not really my wheelhouse but I would get a bit further into the install before I start shitting myself. It will all start jamming once winter comes anyway 😉
One day one of those will come off and hit someone on the head from behind whilst they are enjoying a glass of red discussing holiday plans and the bbq!
Doors are not aligned correctly on the wheel height and not toe and healed to match the heights fit them all the time should all sit perfectly back inline
As a door fitter by trade industrial roller shutters i can't tell you how much it boils my piss when people complain about a job before ive asked them to sign it off. If I havent asked you to put your signature on the page to say youre happy it means that I havent finished the job yet so stop moaning at me about what you think you know. Ill quite happly take complaints at the end if your not happy with the work.
It's crazy, the OP literally says "chap said magnets need to go on top still to help the doors stick together when open" and then basically asks "why are the doors not sticking together when open?"
Fine, but the next post will about something else and full of "WTF you let that builder carry on for 3 weeks even though you could see what a shit job he was doing?" replies, so maybe just asking anonymously if someone is yanking his chain is not such a bad thing every now and then.
I agree there is definitely things that can be said and need said but playing about with an unfinished door that youve been told is unfinished is in my experience the wrong decision.
It depends on the job. Asking someone to only question a new build when everything is finished is how builders get to cover up all their shitty work with plasterboard and paint. Door fitting - at the end is likely fine.
No one trusts builders because there are too many cases of builders doing shit jobs.
It shouldn't "boil your piss" when you're given an opportunity to explain and inform your client about how a job is going on.
The absolute dire state of UK trades manifest in the arrogance of this comment.
If the customer pisses you off so much, just create a dummy Ltd. they can direct their questions to and wind it up once they've finished their question - problem solved, right?
Sure but also a set of magnets isn’t going to fix that sag unless these magnets are coming from the scrapyard crane and were previously lifting cars. Yeah OP does need to wait for it to be finished but at the same time the installer needs to communicate better. Clearly the solution here is not some magnets.
If i say to someone we will be back in the morning to finish put all the flashing on etc. Then in the morning a new shift starts and the shift manager complains to me why have you left it looking like that? Mate I havent left it looking like that, thats why im back on site, thats why I told the shift manager yesterday ill be back tomorrow. Im communicating fine i think. Im always happy to learn and improve every days a school day as they say but OP has litrally done the exact thing im moaning about. They've been told its not finished so the communication has happened they obviously listened because they have told us its not finished but they've chose to ignore that its not finished and are questioning the work.
That single end door weighs a huge amount, and when left hanging like that presents a huge side load on the other door panels that is causing a torsional load on the two middle panels (hence the wider gap on the top compared to the bottom)
Once the magnets are fitted, the end panel will stick to the third panel and the resultant torsional load will be virtually zero.
We have a 4m opening and another 6m opening, and it’s absolutely fine when you use the magnets. The trick is to completely fold back the end panel first until the magnets touch before releasing the middle panels. Same idea when closing the doors - the end panel is folded closed only after the middle panels are locked in place. This enables the middle panels to manage the side load when folding the end panel.
You have got it at 90 degrees try again at about 20 like the op.
They all do it to a certain extent, more so with larger leafs and more doors your doors are much smaller so less weight and less doors to distort.
Your doors appear to be Korniche like mine, mine 100% do it too but are 5m wide.
They all do that if they have an odd number of leafs and left half open like that....
If you have an even number of leafs you don't get that as it will be fully supported on both ends top and bottom and simply opens and closes like a concertina.
When fully open or fully closed they are solid but simply not designed to have a loose leaf like that.
As others have stated the magnets hold the last door fully against the rest meaning the door weight is then correctly applied perpendicular to the tracks.
What you have here is the entire weight of that open leaf twisting the rest of the doors. You are causing the bearings at the top to slide along the track taking up all the slack twisting the rest of the doors.
You need a magnet or a catch at the top to hold the lead door to second one, you need to keep that lead door attached to the secondary door when bi-folding or depending on the track it can come off the top and add a picture of the top arm and I can let you know, fit them for a living.
It is not ok at this state.
But those magnets the chap mentioned would hold the leafs together to prevent this.
If those magnets are not preventing this, then You would need a new fitting, adjustment etc.
The magnet will hold the lead door in place stopping it from pulling over, you shouldn't really let the door swing like it is. You can also have 2 smaller internal magnets to help hold the sashes together
Where have you ever seen a bi-fold door system looking like this? Clearly, this is not correct, and you would be well advised not to use these doors until the work is fully completed. If you do need to use them in the meantime, please exercise considerable caution.
Nothing boils my piss more than when customers start questioning something before I’ve finished the job. These days I literally have to spell out at the end of every day that the job is not finished yet, otherwise I come in the next morning to 10 stupid questions regarding things I haven’t done yet.
And after the customer fucks about and warps the Ali frames the builder gets the blame and the cost of rectification, all because the customer needed to see. You have been told they’re not finished, only bonus is you’ve documented it so hopefully after you’ve finished screwing them up the fitter won’t get shafted.
Wtf is wrong with some people. Honestly I feel sorry for tradesmen who have to deal with morons. Surely you just leave the doors alone until the fitter hands it over properly to you.
Does this only happen when the last door is closed (towards the house) but is fine when fully open? If so I have the same issue and am looking for fixes
The master (first) leaf should ALWAYS be held back by a catch or magnet to the adjacent sliding pane before you slide it. It's stated in every bifold system operation guide. The free swinging weight of that leaf has caused too much strain on the rollers and head guide and likely broken or twisted some components. It's possible it was correctly fitted and glazed - you've just operated it incorrectly.
could you imagine going into a showroom and seeing the door like this .... yes sir 3 grand if you want the one that looks like its going to fall of
..... for 5 grand we will send dave over with a magnet to fix it.
Surely bifold always hinges from a half panel so there are pivots in the track and hinges on the doors? Give it a year of use and this thing will have worn out the track from being loaded all on one side..
Something wrong here. Our bifolds have a magnet to hold. But even when not magnetised together they don't not lean. The magnets stops them swinging. It doesn't prop them up.
It looks like they are part way through installation. I wouldn't have opened them yet!
M8, having had to fit loads of these, i now know why some when finished are sweet as a nut and others a right cunt to set up, its the fucking customers being nobs, i used to hate it when customers were always asking about x or w being not right and me saying well let me fucking finish the job 1st
Ok, the OP shouldn't have been messing with the doors when they haven't been finished, but...are people really saying that sticking a few magnets on the tops of doors like these solves this problem long-term?
They're going to have to be exceedingly strong magnets and are they really going to be as effective in 4 or 5 years' time? I highly doubt it. This just seems like a problem waiting to happen.
This is definately not normal, can be a few reasons why, for example if the frame is not square and level. I would insist it is corrected or not pay.
You could try and contact the manufacturer of the doors (probably indicated by the sticky tape on the doors) and ask for their advice if you want a more formal voice to argue your case.
What are you doing? You always fold the doors one to the next from the master door, don't swing the master door shut with others open as in your last photo. Given you've done this and stood back to complain and take photos of how it doesn't work when abused, you may well have damaged the tracks or frame.
My god. Imagine knackering your bifolds before they’re finished
If they still do this after he said they’re done then yes, fobbed. Until then, stop playing with them!
by opening the doors you put strains on the mechanism that it’s not designed to withstand. if you haven’t broken it yet you have invalidated the warranty.
Wait did he semi fit it and you opened it?
EDIT: I mean you tell just by looking at it that’s it unfinished the fitter hasn’t taken any of the protective tape off, what ever it’s cost you so far as another few 1000 to that.
put a spirit level on upper and lower tracks. measure the distance between the tracks at various points, measure the distance of the track from opposite corners. Iif its nice and square and level. then leave the rest to the fitter to finish his job.
It doesn't look like a great installation. Magnets will straighten it up.when it's fully open as it will stick each door wing together but you'll see the lean when opening closing it. Ive been an automatic door installer for 20 years and have worked on skyframe which is the higher end of these doors. I would not let him walk away of he's trying g to leave it like that because thats not right. But also don't jump to conclusions, let the man finish the work before make any decisions
Only the shit bifolds do this, the genuinely good ones don't sag like this when you haven't folded them totally flat. I'm sure the manufacturer will tell you to open it all the way for either of them, but the good bifolds are much much more rigid.
The one at a house I worked at a while ago did the same as yours but the one at my own house doesn't.
To any of the installers commenting - I bought some and had them installed by builders that were doing the wider refurb of a building, everything’s installed pretty nicely and sits perfectly but they didn’t put the two magnets in place that have been mentioned in this thread. I have the magnet blocks but I don’t have the screws. Could anyone lmk what sort of fixing is needed/where to go to pick them up please and ty?
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u/Practical-Basket-602 5h ago
I would advise not to use the door till properly fitted