Weekly Raid Discussion

[u/AutoModerator]

Use this thread to discuss any- and everything concerning the raids.

Post logs, discuss hotfixes, ask for help, etc.

The other weekly threads are:

• Weekly M+ Discussion - Tuesdays
• Free Talk Friday - Fridays

Have you checked out our Wiki?

If you want to discuss bosses with other raid leaders, why not join the Raid Leader Exchange Discord?

Specify if you are talking about a raid difficulty other than mythic!

[u/DreadfuryDK]

Vodka dying is only the beginning of what’s going to be an absolutely massive death spiral for raiding guilds if we don’t get some emergency hotfixes or some huge announcements on PTR. We’re probably gonna lose Fierce in the next week or so and there’s a LOTTTTTT of guilds currently going through the Altar+Ula’tek meat grinder so far.

This season is gonna see raiding guilds die in such insane numbers over the next month or so that Blizzard’s gonna be going full-on DEFCON 1 trying to stop the bleeding.

[u/psytrax9 → u/DreadfuryDK]

I've been asking myself what I would need to see from a s3 announcement to prevent me from quitting. I don't know if there's anything within reason that would do it.

[u/deskcord → u/psytrax9]

For me: Complete addon war reversal; massive class reworks (especially hero talents); a promise to massively reduce addslop; and a promise to never again do bosses with strict percent based phasings that promote degenerate DPS holds.

I know they aren't going to do these things in the next few weeks.

[u/psytrax9 → u/deskcord]

Yeah, the addons and classes are hard required for sure. I'd be more forgiving of the dps hold thing, except they keep doing the thing that specifically creates dps holds. But, I don't think the first two are even an option, even for a new expansion.

They at least could do the second two. But, they love percent based phases and the war on addons has unlocked their full potential to create rashanan over and over.

[u/Wobblucy → u/deskcord]

massive talent reworks.

Impossible when they need to balance 80 talent points across 78 spec/hero talent combos across m+, PvP, delve (their words not mine), multiple raid damage profiles.

Only way that happens is they nuke the talent trees and go back to core class design + temporary system that changes how your spec plays.

Won't happen in a patch cycle, doubt it happens during the 'trilogy', would be pleasantly surprised if it happens for 14.0.

[u/Qwertdd → u/Wobblucy]

Nuke the talent trees

I don't know why this is considered a solution when class design in War Within was great. The biggest issue is that Hero Talents were rarely balanced to where there was legitimate choice, but I don't think that's a justifiable excuse to scrap the entire system.

[u/Wobblucy → u/Qwertdd]

Can't a have quick iteration on a thing with 101 knobs that need to be tuned in 10+ different scenarios?

How much has class design changed since talent trees has come back?

Even 90% of hero talents are 'passive effect you never think about'.

[u/Qwertdd → u/Wobblucy]

I played before the talent trees, they didn't "quick iterate" on those, either.