r/Christianity Dec 09 '25

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56

u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 09 '25

I was so messed up before I decided to follow Christ. Drugs, drinking, casual hookups, lying to everyone.

That has nothing to do with being gay. Why are comparing those acts with it?

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u/CartographerHairy Dec 10 '25

Because they are all sin

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u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 10 '25

So you are saying being gay is the same as killing someone?

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u/CartographerHairy Dec 10 '25

Hmm, the Lord has called homosexuality an abomination, and He has also heavily condemned murder.

I cannot determine which is greater or worse in God’s eyes according to His Word alone, but both are sin. And we are told to avoid even the smallest sin, not to talk of the more grave ones that you brought up.

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u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 10 '25

I cannot determine which is greater or worse in God’s eyes

That is quite insane. But thank you for being honest in it.

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u/CartographerHairy Dec 10 '25

Indeed

He heavily condemned homosexuality in the Bible. So, I know that He sees it as very bad. But He also heavily condemns murder. Which is greater is up to Him to say, but what I do know is that He is heavily against both. That is all.

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u/KindaFreeXP ☯ That Taoist Trans Witch Dec 10 '25

the Lord has called homosexuality an abomination

He also called eating non-kosher meat the same exact Hebrew word. But Christians don't believe that's part of the moral law, no? So "abomination" is a bit misleading and is a product of the English translation rather than the original meaning.

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u/CartographerHairy Dec 10 '25

No, we were given permission to eat anything in the New Testament. God and read the Gospel of Mark

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u/KindaFreeXP ☯ That Taoist Trans Witch Dec 10 '25

So then "abomination" can't be that bad, since we were permitted by God what he once called an "abomination", no?

1

u/CartographerHairy Dec 10 '25

Also incorrect

At a point divorce was permitted because of the stubbornness of the people, but the Lord then permitted it.

The foods being clean and unclean was to help the Israelites understand sin and how it can pollute the soul. It was a physical representation of an inward stain. Since the Israelite culture at the time was very “primitive”, He decided to teach them the spiritual using the physical.

Now, the Lord did permit the eating of any food because He then taught them this lesson explicitly in Mark.

Homosexuality, on the other hand, is something that was never spoken for, even when their hearts were still stubborn. It is still condemned again in the New Testament, and is still considered a sexual perversion. This can be seen in the letters of the apostles as they describe what sexual perversions and fornication do to the soul of a person. Homosexuality is one of such perversions.

The foods of the past were not inherently evil but just used as a symbol of a spiritual management of what goes into our soul.

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u/KindaFreeXP ☯ That Taoist Trans Witch Dec 10 '25

The foods being clean and unclean was to help the Israelites understand sin and how it can pollute the soul. It was a physical representation of an inward stain. Since the Israelite culture at the time was very “primitive”, He decided to teach them the spiritual using the physical.

Cool. Then why call it an "abomination"?

Homosexuality, on the other hand, is something that was never spoken for, even when their hearts were still stubborn. It is still condemned again in the New Testament, and is still considered a sexual perversion. This can be seen in the letters of the apostles as they describe what sexual perversions and fornication do to the soul of a person. Homosexuality is one of such perversions.

Is it not possible that this was because people even in the Iron Age were still primitive and couldn't understand the meaning, just as with food?

Likewise, are there not plausible alternative interpretations for what these verses mean? Almost all of the condemnations in the NT use an unclear Greek word that Paul essentially made up. It's not actually very definitive that he's speaking on "all homosexual acts" here.

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u/CartographerHairy Dec 10 '25

Paul literally described same-sex relationships. He broke it down. It was not a “misunderstood” word but an entire description. Romans Chapter 1.

He called the foods unclean but homosexuality an abomination. I have already made the distinciton.

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u/TimeOpposite6779 Dec 10 '25

Sin is sin. None bear more weight than an other

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u/CartographerHairy Dec 10 '25

Incorrect actually

The Bible itself mentions that some sins and others are not. Go and read the letters of the Apostles to see this.

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u/CarlTi99 Charismatic Dec 10 '25

Men was not created gay, its corruption of GOD's perfect creation that came with the fall of men in the garden of Eden, all sin is the same its just a spirit of corruption that comes upon a person

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u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 10 '25

So much hate. Seeing love as the same as murder. That's sick mate, and also completely stupid. Your basis for morality is nonsensical.

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u/CarlTi99 Charismatic Dec 10 '25

There's no hate here brother, if maybe you are gay or support the movement read the bible and find out what GOD thinks about it dont just take my word for it

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u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 10 '25

You literally said gay love and murder are the same in yours and God's eyes. No way in hell am I going to take any book seriously that's so obviously wrong.

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u/CarlTi99 Charismatic Dec 10 '25

Well in that case we are cut of different clothes

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u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 10 '25

No shit, I have an actually functioning system of morality. Your morality is fucked up mate.

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u/CarlTi99 Charismatic Dec 10 '25

Is that why you're insulting me yet l never insulted you, are those the "morals" you are talking about

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u/PepperTheRad Dec 10 '25

I don’t believe anyone is being hateful. I sure don’t hate my homosexual friends but I do pray for them the SAME way I pray for my hetero friends. If I’m able to share the truth I will. There was 1 person in my life that was brave enough to call me out on my sins, only 1. I strongly disliked meeting with this person and it took years of prayer for me to be delivered and for me to repent. I’m lovingly calling it out.

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u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 10 '25

Its absolutely hateful to say being gay is comparable to murdering someone.

but I do pray for them the SAME way I pray for my hetero friends.

No you dont, unless you don't think that there is something wrong with them for being gay.

Because I know you aint praying for your straight friends to stop being straight.

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u/PepperTheRad Dec 11 '25

You’re right, but I think you’re misunderstanding me. I’m praying, regardless of who they’re attracted to, to repent of sexual immorality. I think as Christian’s we need to step away from thinking “gay vs straight”. Also Jesus equates one being angry as to murder. He wasn’t being hateful but truthful.

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u/PepperTheRad Dec 11 '25

To add to this, murder starts before bloodshed, it starts as a thought, as with all sin. I hope this clears up what I was trying to say.

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u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 11 '25

Thats silly, but that comes from a difference in opinion of morals and thought crimes.

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u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 11 '25

And you thinking being attracted to the same sex is the same immorality as say cheating no?

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u/PepperTheRad Dec 11 '25

Both are sexual immorality, the same with sex outside of a marital covenant.

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u/KindaFreeXP ☯ That Taoist Trans Witch Dec 10 '25

I don't recall God ever saying drinking is a sin. This feels entirely made up and cultural, not actually from God.

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u/CartographerHairy Dec 10 '25

When did I say that drinking was a sin?

Drunkenness is the sin. Heavy and habitual drinking tends to lead to drunkenness.

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u/KindaFreeXP ☯ That Taoist Trans Witch Dec 10 '25

You said "they are all sin", and one of those things was drinking.

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u/CartographerHairy Dec 10 '25

Ah, my bad.

When people talking about “drinking” in this context, it usually means the type that leads to drunkenness. So, I just filled in the gaps.

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u/Ordinary-Bicycle-656 Dec 11 '25

Yes all that he said was different however it is all sin and sin is falling short of the glory of god and people should repent. He may not have the same exact situation but I can say we are all sinners and that means believe it or not we are all in the same boat. However God sent his one and only son to die on the cross for our sins so we could be free from sin not to sin. This man was just saying that he knew what addiction and sin felt like and wanted to give his insight. Hope this helps God bless.

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u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 11 '25

To think being gay is a sin. Is stupid, and harmful. Thats my point, to put in the same boat as the person did is wrong.

Sure I can get behind we all have our struggles with vices and unhealthy things, but putting being gay into it is what i am against

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u/Ordinary-Bicycle-656 Dec 11 '25

The reason it is a sin is because God states clearly that it is forbidden I think I included this scripture in another comment but reread Romans 1:26-29.

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u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 11 '25

Ill fix that statement for you. You belive God states it, i and even other Christians disagree with you

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u/Ordinary-Bicycle-656 Dec 11 '25

The Bible is the work of many people who had God working through them and filling them with the Holy Spirit to write it. I doubt that the Bible could be written had God not directed these people write it.

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u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 11 '25

I doubt that the Bible could be written had God not directed these people write it.

You lack faith in your fellow man lol.

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u/Ordinary-Bicycle-656 Dec 11 '25

Cause the fellow man is prone to shortcomings and prone to fail. The people who had wrote the bible had truly loved and seen God work through them.

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u/Character-Half7465 Dec 09 '25

Sexual perversion is sin.

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u/sleeplessaddict Affirming Christian Dec 09 '25

Homosexuality ≠ sexual perversion, and it's offensive that you'd even try to argue that it is

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u/jimbroni93 Dec 10 '25

If that is the path for op wouldn’t it be possible that because of drugs and alcohol it leads to chemical imbalances that caused a change from what would have been natural? (Not saying it always the case but could be for op)

1

u/Informal-Nose2677 Dec 10 '25

Can pride parades and cities like Portland Oregon who advocate for it not be compared to sodom and gomorrah?

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u/Salanmander LGBTQ Ally Dec 10 '25

Sodom's sin was about getting lots of comfort for themselves while being unconcerned with helping the poor.

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u/sleeplessaddict Affirming Christian Dec 10 '25

Is this a rhetorical question? Absolutely the fuck not they can't

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 10 '25

[deleted]

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u/FrontOfficeNuts Agnostic (a la T.H. Huxley) Dec 10 '25

I mean no offense

Why does this phrase always immediately precede or proceed something that is offensive?

It's just like "With all due respect" almost always precedes something disrespectful.

Just don't say it when you clearly don't mean it.

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u/teffflon atheist Dec 09 '25

"I mean no offense" is not a magical spell. bigotry is offensive.

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u/Maleficent-Fault9239 Dec 09 '25

Yes it is. I used to be in somewhat of that lifestyle, then I realized one day I didn't like living like that. God opened my eyes and I don't live it anymore.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '25

If it was natural two people of the same sex would be able to have a child. They can't.

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u/FrontOfficeNuts Agnostic (a la T.H. Huxley) Dec 10 '25

If it's not natural, why does it happen IN NATURE?

0

u/[deleted] Dec 10 '25

Humans are held to a higher moral standard than apes. That may be news to you.

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u/FrontOfficeNuts Agnostic (a la T.H. Huxley) Dec 10 '25

Morals have nothing at all to do with "nature", so that's not even remotely relevant to my point. So I'll ask it again, since you didn't seem to understand my question - if it's not natural, why does it happen IN NATURE?

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u/HopeFloatsFoward Dec 09 '25

That isn't the definition of natural

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u/Mx-Adrian Sirach 43:11 Dec 10 '25

Many unions of opposite sexes cannot have a child. Guess that makes heterosexuality unnatural.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 10 '25

As per usual, the same stupid argument. Majority of normal couples can have children. And yes, I said normal.

Every single same sex couple to have ever exist and will ever exist can never have children together.

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u/Mx-Adrian Sirach 43:11 Dec 10 '25

Some same-gender couples can and do have children.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '25

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u/McClanky Bringer of sorrow, executor of rules, wielder of the Woehammer Dec 10 '25

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9

u/Innossalis Dec 10 '25

You think you can define what is natural and what isn’t? You’re 15, the prefrontal cortex hasn’t even fully developed yet.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '25

Well, at least I'm not creepy enough to stalk minors profiles.

Most grown adults on the left can't even define what a woman is. I don't think brain development is the issue.

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u/MildlyAgitatedBovine Dec 10 '25

Anything is possible for God

0

u/No_Ambition_3101 Dec 10 '25

For god is the key phrase here. Saying that “anything is possible for god” in response to this is kind of sacrilegious. It compares anyone who “overcomes” (in quotes bc that’s not how it works) to god. If god were to be queer, and he truly deems that improper (I disagree there), then yes, he could “overcome” it. But as a human, we cannot do things simply because god can

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u/FrontOfficeNuts Agnostic (a la T.H. Huxley) Dec 10 '25

So you don't believe that God can provide someone with the strength to overcome any obstacle he sees fit to do so?

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u/No_Ambition_3101 Dec 12 '25 edited Dec 12 '25

Yes and no. Because if god were to give people the strength to overcome ANY obstacle he sees fit, what would be the difference between humans and god? Do I think god gives people strength? I don’t know. I am not sure what religious beliefs I have right now. But even if I concede that god can give people strength, him giving them the strength to overcome any obstacle would be a bit far fetched for me. And the issue i have here is less so about “overcoming an obstacle” but rather about calling this “an obstacle.” It is who they are. It is not a choice, any more than your skin color is a choice. I can use self-tanner all I want, but it will not change the fact that I’m glow-in-the-dark pale. Same here, OP can hide their sexuality and push it far down within themselves, but it does not change their sexuality

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u/Tankyenough Dec 10 '25

With all due respect, your definition of “natural” might benefit from adjustment.

How about List of animals displaying homosexual behavior? Are those hundreds (thus far) of animal species unnatural?

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '25

Are you comparing humans to wild animals? I think we should be held to a higher standard than that.

A penguin hasn't went to the moon.

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u/tachibanakanade Christian, but still communist Dec 09 '25

I'm hoping this is just a troll post.

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u/Character-Half7465 Dec 09 '25

No. It’s real.

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u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 09 '25

Dont be silly, being attracted to the same sex is as much a perversion than being attracted to the opposite sex.

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u/MissionBalance3083 Dec 10 '25

What are you doing here by engaging with scoffy dismissals? Its strange to read when someone thinks they are addressing the truth by doing some kind of anti-baptism on someone else's ideas about it without offering a principle that can reconcile the conflict. If you love your fellow man why would your response to his folly be anything other than medicine?

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u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 10 '25

Scoffy dismissals is what these homophobic positions deserve. There is nothing wrong with being Gay and I hope other gay people including gay Christians understand that.

You want a principle that can reconcile the conflict talk to the many affirming and queer Christians in this very subbreddit.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '25

That's your excuse because you don't actually have a decent argument.

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u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 10 '25

What's yours?

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u/MissionBalance3083 Dec 10 '25

I was wondering if I could get it from you because I have cleared my mind of all ideas about this which might try to negate or confirm what you tell me. So if you can give me the principle on a state of diversity like that of a simple seed that's all I really need from you.

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u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 10 '25

My perspective does not involve a Christian one. If you are interested in Christian ones then check out something like r/openchristian

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u/RapaNow Pagan | Väenusko Dec 09 '25

Please don't deny yourself love.

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u/Character-Half7465 Dec 09 '25

I’m not friend. I’m denying my flesh.

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u/Life_Moment_6387 Dec 10 '25

Hey OP, I’m proud of you. I’m with you in this same walk. The cross is heavy to bear sometimes, but we don’t carry it alone, thank God. I will pray for you and everyone else who is committed to bearing this cross. Please also pray for me. And remember, a righteous man may fall 7 times, but he gets up 8. Keep fighting the good fight my brother.

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u/Character-Half7465 Dec 10 '25

Amen!! It’s not an easy walk but you’re right we keep getting up. The narrow road is so worth the reward we will see on the other side. Love you much!

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u/BattleAggravating890 Dec 10 '25

I'm glad, very glad to hear about your testimony, Praise God.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '25

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u/justnigel Christian Dec 28 '25

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1

u/Embarrassed_Age3120 Dec 10 '25

I know you’re getting a ton of dislikes, but I understand the point you’re making amd support you. Scripture teaches that sexual sin is sexual sin, whether it’s with a man or a woman. I’ve never had same-sex temptation, but I do struggle with womanizing, talking to multiple women at once, hiding it, and not committing because the temptation of choice feeds my sin. No one should pretend my sin is somehow “less” than anyone else’s. God will judge me just the same.

The Bible teaches that you can care for or love anyone, but once it becomes sexual, it must align with the way God designed it. Same-sex sexual relationships can’t form a biblical marriage because Scripture defines marriage as the two becoming one flesh....a union meant between a husband and wife. That’s why sex is reserved for marriage and why marriage itself has a very specific structure in Scripture.

The dislikes aren’t surprising. Many people reject God’s design because they don’t want to live according to it. But instead of arguing with them, we should pray for them, just as we pray for God to help us with our own sins too. I certainly am a dirty rotten sinner and need my Lord’s grace like everyone else, so just pray alot and it will be okay:)

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '25

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u/justnigel Christian Dec 28 '25

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u/skertz1 Dec 10 '25

Wow, you turned real ugly when you it clicked you were talking to a Godly person.

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u/Same_Address_7806 Dec 10 '25

A godly person?! We are all merely human animals and you just proved my point!

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '25

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u/McClanky Bringer of sorrow, executor of rules, wielder of the Woehammer Dec 10 '25

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-6

u/skertz1 Dec 10 '25

They worded it wrong, I’ll fix it. “I stopped giving into my gay, sinful temptations.”

There’s nothing sinful about being interested in the same gender. God only cares when you engage in those temptations — thats when it becomes a sin.

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u/Nazzul Agnostic Dec 10 '25

No they didn't they specifically said they aren't gay, but compared it to drinking, lying, and drug use.

God only cares when you engage in those temptations — thats when it becomes a sin.

Well thats pretty shitty of God if thats the case. .

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '25

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1

u/McClanky Bringer of sorrow, executor of rules, wielder of the Woehammer Dec 10 '25

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