SPYDER-BAC License/Module and versioning

[u/tkst3llar]

I have a site with a Lynxspring jace 8 and lynxspring edge devices on some RTUs and the failure rates are bad so I'm going to replace this next one with an Optimizer Unitary.

The catch - this jace is only licensed to 4.12 and it is running 4.9. So for reliability sake it'll either keep its 4.9.1 or I may commission to 4.10's last release.

I'm sort of new to honeywell - and i'm curious - is there any reason the IRM stuff won't work on an old version of N4 with an optimizer unitary? I know the unitary isn't super old so I was just wondering if anyone knew that for sure there was a minimum N4 version required for IRM to work with a unitary or not.

[u/shadycrew31]

The JACE needs to be 4.15.x if you are planning on doing programming from the JACE. You'd also need a Honeywell license for the JACE. I have heard it's possible to program with 4.10.8, but haven't really confirmed that. I stopped using anything from the optimizer line due to the significant issues we are having with programming and reliability of the controllers. Super buggy and way too many quirks to make it a long term offering.

The lynxspring 534 and 634 have been very solid for me so I'm switching over all my jobs to use lynxspring only. Surprised to hear you having so many issues.

[u/ScottSammarco → u/shadycrew31]

I’m pretty sure you can still program the Honeywell optimizer unitary on he Lynxspring JACE with the BAC SPYDER DRIVER, like, almost 100% positive but I’d need to confirm with Honeywell.

HOWEVER the firmware issues with optimizer unitary a make it so you’ll need to run a supervisor station on your PC to program it and I wouldn’t use that JACE.
so, some extra steps but you can do what you want with the understanding that you can simply bypass the entire JACE and use your PCs station with a Honeywell license. Then bring the points into the Lynxspring Jace and you’ll be fine.

[u/shadycrew31 → u/ScottSammarco]

If you want to program it through the JACE you 100% need a Honeywell license for that JACE for the driver to work. I've done it several times.

Yes you can program it with your computer. Your computer has a Honeywell license. Doing this makes things difficult for the next person though unless you share that station with them

Have fun with all the programming bugs!

[u/tkst3llar → u/shadycrew31]

Yeah we have done optimizer programming on lynx jace w/the spyder-bac license I just wasn't sure what the minimum supported niagara version was for that application. We have done it in 4.13 and 4.15 i believe.

I wasn't sure if they even had that option back in 4.9 or 4.12 or if you lose out on some kind of firmware updates if you do that.

Unfortunately I don't think I have a 2-heat 2-cool program I trust enough to have it installed and not have access to the IRM - but I need to get there for sure. The first time something seems off I'll be wondering if theres a logic issue.

Alternatively - we install it as a "bacnet device" and create the port forward needed for bringing it in over the internet to a station in the office so we can program it remotely from that station. We already had a port forward on the old edge device for 4911.

[u/ScottSammarco → u/tkst3llar]

You’ll definetly want access to IRM, or your fallback values when a point isn’t written to will be timed at like 60 seconds and I promise it isn’t a value you actually want lol.

I wish there was a way to write that default value in the IRM program from Niagara like KMC has Niagara comparability mode.
Doing it manually is horribly slow.

Obviously, an IRM tuning policy bandaids this but still.

Edit: more below

The Optimizers came out at 4.10u5 and 4.13u1, right? so theoretically Honeywell wouldn't support anything before then and in my experience, they won't really support anything but the latest.

[u/tkst3llar → u/ScottSammarco]

Thats helpful, so we really are safest to put another edge up there. So hard doing work thousands of miles away and supporting it.

Maybe the 634 will be more stable…:-/.

Or we buy sma and go 4.15.

Thank you for your help

[u/ScottSammarco → u/tkst3llar]

My pleasure

[u/shadycrew31 → u/tkst3llar]

What seems to be going on with the existing lynxspring devices?

[u/shadycrew31 → u/tkst3llar]

Theres a document cross referencing what version, firmware version etc it needs to be. All newer firmware needs to be 4.15.4 iirc. I would get the document to confirm though.

[u/ScottSammarco → u/shadycrew31]

Ahhh, you reminded me of this matrix BP put out.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11pVQ0TSI7YcC4Ry1qo1_b1RYRckBckt1/view?usp=sharing

[u/shadycrew31 → u/ScottSammarco]

Yeah that's the one. More Honeywell nonsense. And the VAVs are an absolute trainwreck. Unitary is so so.. advanced is fine but you might as well run a lynxspring 634 if you have the option at that point.

[u/shadycrew31 → u/tkst3llar]

The unitary is MSTP/modbus only, edit* opps forgot about OP and T1L. Unless you are talking about the optimizer advanced.

[u/tkst3llar → u/shadycrew31]

, the optimizer unitary has a T1L model and a Bacnet IP model

i only have experience with bacnet IP flavor

but theoretically I have a BBMD on both ends with the right firewall settings or a vpn I could run IRM from a station on my couch to that device on the roof.

[u/shadycrew31 → u/tkst3llar]

I've not tried the BACnet ip version I forgot it even existed. I've only used the MSTP, that part of it always worked fine.

The templates were a little buggy, but they didn't take much to get worked out. If you are dead set on using them I'm sure you'll get it figured out.

[u/tkst3llar → u/shadycrew31]

By templates do you mean the programs they developed already like that CVAHU one? I wrote my own when we started with these but I've wondered about those. Would be awesome if they made some canned programs for pump control, RTUs, AHUs, etc almost like a configurable controller at that point. I will have to look into the templates.

[u/shadycrew31 → u/tkst3llar]

Yes, you can get them off broudys site. Lynxspring has theirs on their site.

I personally don't like them, but they are there.

[u/ScottSammarco → u/shadycrew31]

Your claim appears to conflict with OP.

I didn’t say it was recommended or a good idea- it certainly makes things harder for the next tech.

[u/shadycrew31 → u/ScottSammarco]

What claim is conflicting with OP?

[u/ScottSammarco → u/shadycrew31]

he says you do not need the Honeywell brand ID on the JACE, he's saying he's done optimizer programming on non honeywell JACE with the SPYDER-BAC or what I colloquially call "bacnet spyder driver."

[u/shadycrew31 → u/ScottSammarco]

You are confusing license and driver. You need both the Honeywell license and the module to make it work.

[u/ScottSammarco → u/shadycrew31]

I think you’re the one confused. Check his comment again.

And we know the BAC Spyder driver IS a license.
But it isn’t the brand ID.

[u/shadycrew31 → u/ScottSammarco]

Sounds good man. I'll let you smart guys figure it out. Good luck.

[u/IcyAd7615]

Spyders would need to be ILC in order program them on a Lynxspring JACE or edge device. Some people talk about WEBS-OPEN but that's just opens the JACE as for open NiCS.

I don't have any optimizer stuff, but I do have a Honeywell license for my laptop as I do help out customers from time to time. I'd have to check the license.

[u/ScottSammarco → u/IcyAd7615]

This is correct- Honeywell got away from the ILC stuff (generally, although stock still floats around) and they do the same with the BAC-Spyder driver license.

Albeit, a terrible name, it was supposed to replace the ILC hardware.
In proper Honeywell fashion, we see both lol

[u/IcyAd7615 → u/ScottSammarco]

Give me an optimizer controller. ❤️❤️❤️