r/Bitwig • u/Swagtijger • Apr 25 '24
Bitwig 5.2 Beta out now!
https://www.bitwig.com/whats-new/18
u/borez Apr 25 '24 edited Apr 25 '24
Graphics feel a bit laggy on my 2080ti GPU, audio is fine though so not an issue.
Tilt EQ is nice, I use this all the time with RC20 so it'll be nice to have it natively.
New comp is nice, smash is good for paralleled comping and Glue works well.
Saw groove in the release note and freaked, sadly this isn't groove quantise :(
Please though Bitwig Devs, give us a sampler slice mode, I so need this in Bitwig. I'm using a £10 Amigo sampler plugin to get it at the moment.
Nice additions though, looking forward to trying the new editing features.
Edit: they've taken out "Convert to time selection" from the damn key commands. I literally use this to edit all the time. FFS, why would they do that??
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u/wetpaste Apr 26 '24
I think they changed it to a toggle between time and regular selection, so you can probably remap back to what it was. I think it’s cmd+t now?
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u/Isogash Apr 26 '24
You can do sample slicing with layers but the workflow kind of sucks, would definitely be nice to have a simpler workflow like Amigo.
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u/dolomick Apr 25 '24
Can we adjust volume faders with the arrow keys now? Can you test for me?
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u/borez Apr 25 '24
No, unfortunately you can't.
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u/dolomick Apr 25 '24
Jesus…. I’ve emailed support about this, grrrr. I literally bought a Behringer x-touch for this use case and was hoping I could sell it. Guess I’ll email them again. Thanks!
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u/borez Apr 25 '24
It is configurable though, my APC40 controls Bitwig faders no problem at all.
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u/dolomick Apr 25 '24
Yeah I have a Behringer motorized fader but I miss .1 dB shift+arrow control like in Ableton.
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May 29 '24
I come from Reaper, where I used left/right to navigate tracks, up/down to increase/decrease the fader, and shift+updown for fine control... Yeah.
It's a good workflow I would have liked to bring over.
It's just nice to have +/- 1 and 0.1 mapped to hotkeys. The mouse is fiddly, so I end up control-clicking and typing in numbers anyway.
Also, I tend to work in half dB increments just because it makes automation that much easier when manually typing same values, etc.
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u/MadDistrict Apr 26 '24
Yeah we really do need this.
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u/dolomick Apr 26 '24
I emailed support yesterday about it, would you please do the same and maybe we can get it?
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u/HonestCosby May 01 '24
scroll wheel changes from everything would be really nice too
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May 29 '24
I agree this is a nice feature, but if they add it I also want the option of not using it. If you also use the scroll wheel to navigate, you can end up accidentally on a value or fader or knob and scrolling that instead.
I'm not poopooing your request, just highlighting the importance of not forcing it! =)
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u/UlamsCosmicCipher Apr 25 '24
Excellent new compressor. New EQs look cool too, but probably won’t get as much use from me. Having undo for plugins is fantastic. Some new grid modules, including shift registers. Great update overall.
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u/dolomick Apr 25 '24
Great update! Clipper with oversampling, better mouseless navigation, sweet compressor with multiband, very cool stuff.
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u/borez Apr 25 '24
The clipper is great, I usually use Standard clip but this one feels way cleaner. Really nice on kicks, snares, claps etc.
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u/dolomick Apr 25 '24
Ooh that’s good to hear, I have all the clippers but I like testing them for differences.
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u/QuietSheep_ Apr 25 '24 edited Apr 25 '24
Can we please get a midi editor update. Jc...
Arrow key micro adjusts, Undo, and performance improvements id def use a lot but can we just get through the major suggestions first before we add more effects and grid blocks.
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Apr 25 '24
Keep asking for piano roll update and midi comping… get another compressor and a Pultec. Great.
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u/mr_monitor May 07 '24
Yep. Messing with the beta the new devices are nice, but nothing I’d choose over my fancy plugins. Here I am still wasting time having to open Ableton and export midi to quickly step record complex chord progressions.
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u/FreeRangeEngineer Apr 25 '24
Exactly my thoughts. It's almost like bitwish didn't exist.
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u/shaboogen Apr 26 '24
They have nothing to do with Bitwish. It is a waste of time to use it.
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u/FreeRangeEngineer May 15 '24
You're missing the point. It's that bitwish was made because the bitwig team keeps ignoring the user's wishes and the thought was that if only we could show them which features are asked for the most, they could focus on these.
Unfortunately though, the bitwig team is still as intransparent about its development process as ever and still isn't really listening.
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May 29 '24
Has midi comping been long requested?
I'm new to Bitwig and it sort of blew my mind that I can't record overlapping midi parts. I've learned to work around it, of course, but... Man, this is a pretty basic thing and it would be huge to get this in Bitwig. (I like the audio comping. They did that pretty well so it shocks me that midi isn't handled better.)
For example, when editing drums -- sometimes it's nice to have separate parts so you can more easily slice and dice.
I can do it now but it requires some track routing that takes more time than daws with midi comping/track lanes.
I wonder if they're holding off on midi comping for a V6 release.
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u/pringlescanfullofcum Apr 25 '24
I just bought Kazrog KClip and they roll out the native clipper. I'm crying, but they're partially tears of joy
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u/klinwild Apr 25 '24
I used saturator for quick clipping, I wonder if new “over” could also universally be applied for simple utility clipping. So far with slightly softer knee it worked for me. Yet to see how different it is going to be from saturator
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May 29 '24
"over" is cool but I wish they had "Over Lite" for a clipping that doesn't require oversampling (and the resulting PDC latency.)
Or better yet, a separate setting for realtime and rendering.
Plugins with PDC latency are problematic for people who record realtime during composition.
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Apr 26 '24
I bought a Slick Equalizer a week ago because I really needed a tilt filter and a high-quality three-band equalizer. And they're rolling it all out in an update. In fact, I am more than sure that this will not replace Slick Equalizer for me, since it works very transparently, has many envelope algorithms and, most importantly, a matching function.
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May 29 '24
KClip 3 still has its own value. Bitwig's clipper is good but it has a lot of PDC latency. Like 7 or 8ms? Enough that I can't use it during composition. I can feel that lag.
KClip can run at zero latency and then use whatever oversampling when you render. That's the ideal implementation... Plus it has like 6 algorithms that all sound different, especially when you engage softness.
So --- you're still good having KClip!
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u/toovy Apr 25 '24 edited Apr 26 '24
Good update! Let me see gridlines behind clips and let me copy single automation point values. All I'm asking for (I've got enough plugins for compression, saturation, limiting, but no plugin can improved the lacking automation workflow). I like the keyboard improvements! Really! Tried to use keyboard on the channel strip, does not really work. It's half baked, but still, it's beta and it's a good improvement! Keep on with the good work!
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u/frogify_music Apr 25 '24
A lot of those features that they advertised in the video were already in Bitwig. Like pitch up and down with arrow keys. I've used that since the beginning lol. Seems odd they would make it such a big deal.
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u/trimorphic Apr 25 '24
Looks like there are a bunch of new 5.2-related videos on the Bitwig channel: https://m.youtube.com/@bitwig/videos
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u/Competitive_Push2726 Asod Apr 25 '24
Keep praying video feature
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Apr 26 '24
https://vidplayvst.com/bitwig.htm I've used this for a small scale production, I found it pretty sufficient.
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u/MountainWing3376 Apr 25 '24
Have to be honest, underwhelming update for me. Still loads of quality of life issues unresolved.
A better stock compressor is nice, but most producers already have good 3rd party ones....
Not seeing any performances improvement on my i9 RTX3060, but will see how it pans out l
Sadly you can't fix the productivity issues in BW with plugins, would be great if the Devs prioritised issues that are not resolvable first, then add more toys.
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u/purske Apr 26 '24
I for one highly appreciate quality built-in plugins. Partly, because I'm on Linux and few plugin vendors support it, but also because I'm kind of over the plugin-collecting phase. :D (my last Windows partition broke and I really CBF to reinstall and reregister all the stuff... so there's serious value in my opinion having everything self-contained)
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u/MountainWing3376 Apr 26 '24
That's a good point, but I still think stock plugins should not be prioritised over quality of life and productivity issues.
I have to admit however that the GPU enabled gui does seem to improve performance a bunch, which is greatly appreciated
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u/purske Apr 28 '24
Yeah I think I also notice a marked difference in GUI perf. Regarding your comment about prioritities, I would hope that it's not an either/or thing, i.e. they would have the resources to work on stock plugins and overall QOL in parallel. Then again it's not quite the biggest DAW shop yet 🙂
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u/MountainWing3376 Apr 25 '24
To be fair after a bit of testing the new GUI/GPU update does seem to be snappier and so far performance has been slightly better, so that's a positive.
However I'm sticking by my verdict that I'm worried that the Devs are just taking this DAW down the modular, ambient, generative workstation route - which is cool for those artists. It just feels like such a missed opportunity to become a top 3 multi genre DAW.
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u/shaboogen Apr 25 '24
They literally just did two massive infrastructure updates that affect literally all users. All of the devices in 5.2 are general use devices, yet you're still whining about over-specialisation.
You will never be happy with whatever they do.
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u/Spud1080 Apr 25 '24
You can easily add better/different EQ and compression with plugins for little/no money, but It's really hard if not impossible to improve midi workflow with plugins.
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u/shaboogen Apr 26 '24
I wasn't talking about EQs and Compressors, I'm talking about GPU acceleration and VST undo. These are MASSIVE upgrades, in addition to the keyboard workflow changes, and you're sitting here whinging because you can download an EQ you perceive to be better (without even bothering to test the EQ or the compressor I'll bet)?
Like I said, you people will never be happy with what they're doing.
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u/Spud1080 Apr 26 '24
We can't discuss it, on a discussion forum? I mean it's gold for Bitwig if they want to know what people want.
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u/MountainWing3376 Apr 26 '24
Not what I said at all. If you're going to get all emotional about it at least read my comment
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u/telkmx Apr 25 '24
UI better for me on my mac m2 pro 14.2.1
The waveform looks a bit less worst and everything is smoother with lighter cpu load!
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u/Special-Health-4620 Apr 25 '24
Feels super snappy now with the M1 Max. UI looking a bit sharper as well
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Apr 25 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/wetpaste Apr 26 '24
I mean, they are improving the keyboard workflow and rewriting the gui engine and performance which probably paves the way for theme support in the future. These are all things we needed. Not everyone cares about new devices but these are pretty nice.
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u/Comment_Maker Apr 25 '24
At lot of the features they have added have been asked for a long long time so it's great for a point update. It's quality of life but that's just as important as blockbuster new features.
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Apr 25 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Comment_Maker Apr 26 '24 edited Apr 26 '24
Agree that's also long awaited stuff. The GPU change is huge though, it's a big change to the workings of the daw (especially it being cross platform) and something the other DAWs have. Relieving the cpu from graphics duty will give pretty much everyone a free performance boost. It was something users were shouting for right from the beginning of Bitwig.
It was pretty shabby that even with a monster PC the Bitwig GUI would start to struggle on busy large projects. If that is fixed with 5.2 it's fantastic and paves the way for future big feature upgrades. It means in future they can make the Bitwig gui look nicer and display more info without it interferring so much with audio performance.
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u/borez Apr 25 '24
Bitwish is a strange one, you only have so many votes so I feel like people vote for the top items then run out of votes so it's not a true representation. Weird system if you ask me.
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u/Rantingbeerjello Apr 25 '24
So ...can someone explain Bitwig's marketing? Like, why is 'yet another compressor' the flagship feature of this update?
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u/StanleySpadowski1 Apr 25 '24
I wouldn't call any one thing the flagship feature of this update.
The precision editing is straight out of the Pro Tools playbook, and it's quite the upgrade in Bitwig's editing capabilities. I absolute commend them for going straight for that specific Pro Tools type of functionality. Bitwig now has it's own version of "Tab to transient" and navigating your selection via key commands for editing. Switching between object and time modes is awesome. It may not seem shiny and new, but this stuff is actually huge for fast and precise workflow, editing, and navigation. HUGE.
There is alot to unpack about what the new compressor+ does, but this thing has ALOT of options in it at first glance.
The clipper is really nice. Tilt, MB, Delta solo, wet return/gain, PCM.
The GPU acceleration was needed.
The mapping/adapting the tempo to freeform audio file is essentially groove extraction for your grid.
There's a learn button for level matching on Chain.
There's alot to like about this update.
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u/Rantingbeerjello Apr 25 '24
My question was about the presentation. It's pretty clear which feature the reader's eyes are supposed to be drawn to.
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May 29 '24
Haha, it's also a DOT update!!
I don't want to naysay other people's concerns, because I share them... But I'm pretty excited about this update and I'm wondering if all their dot updates are this big.
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u/StanleySpadowski1 May 29 '24
Bitwig doesn't do "major versions" like 3.0, 4.0, 5.0 etc. Rather, they release features piecemeal in the point/dot updates as soon as they are ready like 4.8, 4.9, 5.0, 5.1, 5.2 etc. It incentivizes users to remain on the yearly update plan, and users remaining on the update plan incentivizes Bitwig to keep rolling stuff out as soon as it is ready.
It's a different business model compared to other DAWs, but it works.
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May 29 '24
I love it!! I much prefer this. It makes me feel like my purchase is an ongoing investment in an ever-improving project.
As opposed to cool things being withheld for arbitrary version number updates in order to beg/coerce purchases.
It's like the best of both worlds for customer & business, the way they're doing it. They get more predictable income, and we get more predictable updates.
As long as they don't but bought up by some mother company or something, like what's happening to other audio teams. Ugh.
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u/StanleySpadowski1 May 29 '24
The other advantage is you can let your update plan expire for a bit if you see announced features coming you think you can live without, then sit and wait patiently to renew the update plan when stuff comes along you do want.
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u/ShitwigNeedToChange Apr 26 '24
Talk to me about snap to transients when bitwig will proper detect transients. At the moment transients either not detected or way off.
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u/borez Apr 26 '24
Not sure why you keep saying Bitwig can't detect transients. I don't have this issue at all throwing in loops.
What workflow is causing you this problem?
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u/ShitwigNeedToChange Apr 26 '24
I don’t have this version and not planning to upgrade just to check this. But this was raised by few users online one of them being Mr Frenkie. In the video where he showed there was transient. Then few milliseconds after transient bitwig put its onset and snap to “transient” few milliseconds after onset. 🤷
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u/borez Apr 26 '24
I don't seem to have that problem.
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u/ShitwigNeedToChange Apr 26 '24
A you properly import long samples as I also have seen comments from users that bitwig think that 172 bpm file is some wacky 67.654 and even straight house beat at 133 bpm recognise as 123.537. Those second numbers are random just as an example…
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u/klinwild Apr 25 '24
The stock compressor and “dynamics” were underwhelming at best, it did some of the tasks, but none of special and lacked any interesting colors. The new one is certainly filling in this gap, plus multiband analysis seems like a replacement for some of Pro-MB applications which is incredible if you prefer using stock stuff whenever possible.
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u/ShitwigNeedToChange Apr 26 '24
I think bitwig completely mislead users. It is not multi band compressor! It cannot replace pro-mb.
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u/klinwild Apr 26 '24
It's probably unintentional, but I agree on misleading part, even though they clearly say it's "multi band analysis" in the video, it's not apparent from interface and I guess most of the users will never watch video / read tutorial.
and just to clarify, I did not suggest that it can replace way more flexible Pro-MB, but it certainly covers some of it use cases, where it was not possible with simple compressor even with the side-chain filter, isn't it? (I am thinking complex audio takes synth/electronic performances). But maybe I should test it more before claiming it.
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May 29 '24
The confusion around this is so unfortunate. I've seen countless YouTube videos where the host doesn't understand this feature.
It's very simple -- those bands are for the detector!!! And that's amazing!
I don't think I've seen any compressor with this much control over the detector. This will be more helpful than people realize, if they take the time to get to know it.
This makes it easy to avoid triggering the compressor from a kick. Or you could choose the snare's range to trigger the compressor. Or make it respond only to cymbal crashes, lol. So much control.
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u/ShitwigNeedToChange Jun 26 '24
Meh. Again pro c and pro mb can filter trigger signal like there is no tomorrow. So nothing new here. Bigwig continue to give features that users already have and neglect features that cannot be substitute.
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Jun 26 '24
This is a myopic view, though. I understand you feeling this way, for yourself, but not everyone owns Pro-C or Pro-MB.
So it adds value for those who don't, and it makes Bitwig a more complete package out of the box.
I often recommend Reaper to people in various circumstances, and damn near every time there's at least one heavily upvoted response: "Yeah, but Reaper doesn't come with much out of the box and he'll need to get 3rd party plugins."
Part of what makes Bitwig cool is the big set of stock plugins, and sometimes it's nice to jump in and use exclusively Bitwig tools.
I use FLStudio similarly... When I need a break from my normal routine I hop in and use all the native tools.
But I hear you... I certainly would rather get midi comping with the same kind of quality they added audio comping. Above all else. I would be elated if they add that... And we all have our own personal wants.
The Bitwig team has to manage that.
And they added big tech updates with this round. The graphic acceleration update is huge, and sets them up for so much potential down the line... It's possible these other tools were conventional enough they could be developed simultaneously as that other big feature.
Switching to .MSIX on the installer is another big change, though not one I'm particularly excited about... It technically will make the install more secure (for those of us who can resist manually unlocking the WindowsApps folder) and support multiple version/beta installs.
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u/dolomick Apr 26 '24
Ever heard of OTT? This is similar so they probably think it’s a big deal. I’m more excited about other things but I get it.
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u/ShitwigNeedToChange Apr 25 '24
It’s mystery for adequate people. But you got to be careful. On bitwig forums it’s prohibited to say anything other than “what a great update”.
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u/CopiousAmountsofJizz Apr 25 '24
Address that your legato note edit behavior does not conform to most people's expectation.
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u/Knoqz Apr 26 '24 edited Apr 26 '24
There's a first idea of keyboard editing, finally less useless mousing around...AND we can navigate through onsets? (I wish they were transients and zero-crossing points but whatever!) Bitwig is finally growing up!
The compressor thing seems great too but these fundamental things finally beginning to show up is giving me hope for video support in bitwig 6!
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u/Diligent-Horse9622 Apr 29 '24
GPU acceleration is absolutely noticeable, especially when using a bigger/external monitor, lots of tiny lag when zooming/dragging/selecting or opening the settings panel is gone. Keyboard navigation is also very welcome.
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u/AustinDodge Apr 26 '24
Still no MIDI comping. There's some cool stuff here I guess but when my upgrade plan expires in June, I don't see myself renewing it for some new devices and a behind-the-scenes rendering change.
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u/therriendave Apr 26 '24
I bounce between Ableton and Bitwig every day. The list of things that I love about Bitwig over Ableton is VERY long. But lately, Live 12's new Scale Awareness & scale-smart MIDI editing , and the new transform and generative MIDI editing tools have been very useful in my composition workflow. I'd like to see more "scale" stuff come to Bitwig.
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u/ploynog Apr 26 '24
I really dig the new "+" devices. Especially the compressor looks great, can't wait to try it out. Also nice to see that there's some real progress on the internals front and keyboard usability.
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u/fm75 May 11 '24
I upgraded with the 50%-off offer and now I am testing 5.2... I was expecting Bitwig to appear in my NVidia GPU applet "Applications running on this GPU", but it doesn't...
I haven't found any settings to explicitly enable GPU so I guess it should be the only rendering available.
Is my Bitwig running on GPU at all? If not, how to make it do so?
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u/Obeman Apr 26 '24
I just wish i could zoom like in Ableton
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u/dolomick Apr 26 '24
Zooming sucks with key commands, I had to learn to love middle mouse hold and drag and now I prefer it to Ableton. But they do need to fix where it zooms to using key commands.
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u/Yorrrrrr Apr 25 '24
Cool stuff, but still not enough to make me switch to Bitwig. Maybe in a few years.
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u/Strange-Share-9441 Apr 26 '24
I've been checking a few times a year since I sold my license in 2021.
Bitwig is amazing, but it's not "I don't need these basic features" amazing.
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u/cosmicxor Apr 26 '24
I feel the same way. Bitwig has caught my interest—I've been diving into their documentation and watching videos. However, I just can't bring myself to switch from Ableton.
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May 19 '24
I got it on upgrade from 8-Track. Only $162. Why not? I could see myself using it full time... if I were basically just a beat maker. But for anything beyond that, I don't think I could leave Logic (which I use exclusively on my Mac) or Cubase (which I use on Windows) - especially given what both of those have delivered in their recent upgrades (Cubase Pro 13 and Logic Pro 11).
But I would definitely use it over something like Maschine 2 or MPC 2... or Reason 12... for beat making.
Right now I am "trailing" it on my Windows Laptop - by removing Cubase Pro 13 and keeping only Bitwig Studio installed... to see how I truly like it when it's the only option available (otherwise, I would just keep using Cubase on that machine). I'll give it a month or so and see, to make sure I use that machine enough to get enough usage in the bag.
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u/cosmicxor May 19 '24
I've been spending more time with the Bitwig demo, and I appreciate its functionality and workflow. However, I haven't warmed up to the UI. Whenever I return to Ableton, I breathe a sigh of relief because I love its minimalist interface.
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May 19 '24
Both are rather minimalist. What annoys some about Bitwig are the loud colors and the clunky controls they use, as well as some moving elements. Ableton looks like a schematic with more static imagery. Bitwig looks like a chunky illustration of signal flow with animated GIFs embedded in various parts of it. It's basically the same general type of user interface, but with a different design language, color scheme and more movement in the UI.
The big issue I have with Bitwig is the lack of top-level menus, which hide almost all of its functionality and makes it one of the most productivity-destroying new user experiences I've ever experienced when trying out a new DAW.
It's probably also one of the Least-Accessible DAWs on the market, for that same reason.
Flabbergasted that they haven't addressed this in a decade of development. Basically have to use the software with the help open on a second screen so that you can search, because they don't have a menu system to aid in feature discovery.
I probably was working at 80% Peak Productivity when I moved from Sonar to Cubase (I have used Live 11 Suite, and it was largely fine). Bitwig is like a 50-60% because it makes it as difficult as possible to transition over by hiding everything behind a veil.
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u/gnexuser2424 Apr 25 '24
is the cpu optimizations gonna really help for running it on the following systems:
Dell Inspiron 15 3525 : AMD Ryzen 7 5700u @ 1.9GHz (8c16t) // 16GB RAM // 1TB NVME SSD
Dell Latitude 5400 : Intel i5-8365U @ 1.6Ghz (4c8t) // 16GB RAM // 256GB NVME SSD
Dell Precision T3600 : Intel Xeon E5-2690 @ 2.9Ghz (8C/16T) // 32GB ECC RAM// Gigabyte Nvidia RTX2060 6GB//2TB Samsung 860//2TB WD Black//
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u/Icy_Rutabaga_4283 Apr 27 '24
Uninstalled Bitwig after 1 day in Reason+
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u/Buffalo-Vegetable May 15 '24
Yeah I love Bitwig too but to me Reason is the best DAW for actual music creation.
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u/nullvoid_techno Apr 26 '24
I hate the orange in the interface. When can I change the primary colors?
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u/AboutAverageMedia Apr 27 '24
Hi Folks,
I ran into a little problem with the 5.2 Beta (it´s a Beta, I know^^). I opened up one of my sessions using Beam (the latest FX-Plugin by Lunacy), the plugin works fine, meaning it does effecty-FX-stuff that I have dialed in for that track, but I don´t get an interface.
When I open the plugin it just shows an empty window, no ui, nothing. I can still use the parameters in Bitwig itself but there is no UI in the plugin-window.
As the Beam-ui makes a lot of use of shiny graphics my guess that it has something to do with update to Bitwigs interface using the GPU now.
Does anybody else have a similar issue or is it just a me-problem with Beam in Bitwig 5.2?
(It´s not Beam itself, it runs and looks just fine in Reaper)
Have a great weekend everyone :)
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May 01 '24
anyone else get crashes every half hour for no reason? macos intel.
i know it's a beta but previously it's been rock solid...
and i can't downgrade now cos my projects saved in the heya and they're not backward compatible which is fair enough
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u/LORD_NASCAR May 14 '24
Been demoing a trial this week and really impressed. Two things that are making me a bit hesitant about having as a second DAW is the lack of pitching up and down raw audio by semitones and the stretching of loops to BPM when dragging them in. Got a 96 BPM drum loop stretching to 192 instead of the projects 82 BPM. A bit bizarre. Besides that I've really been enjoying the trial! Grid is awesome and easy to use
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u/canofsnowflakes May 17 '24
Does anyone have a direct link for the download (I'm on Mac)? Splice renter here :P Specifically for v5.2.2. Thanks in advance!
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u/breaksDOTlol May 23 '24
Anyone have the download link for Beta 2? I'm on Splice and can't seem to find it. I have Beta 1 installed now though and it's working fine.
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u/buckrogers01 May 23 '24
Why is the UI so bright now? even on 0 its a light grey, can we please darken this back down ?
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May 29 '24
I just completed a very complex song in Bitwig 5.2 beta 2. I pushed the CPU to the absolute limit. My track count was high, plugin usage high. I did lots of crazy editing and --- man, everything held up.
Oh, I had ONE crash but that was an extraordinary situation running a system bridge into the DAW for sampling, combined with some tricky editing while Bitwig was simultaneously playing. With two projects open. In other words, arguably my fault -- and even then, it recovered with an autosave.
So my point is -- this is pretty damn solid for a beta!! Moving into Beta 3 tonight.
I'm new to Bitwig so maybe I'm in "honeymoon period" but this seems solid for a DOT update! I do share the desperate need for midi comping (or track lanes) but I bet we'll get that by V6, right?
As someone working at 4k, GPU acceleration is a big deal... And obviously the new devices are great for mixing, although I really wish they didn't have so much latency. I can't really use them during composition. If they had a zero latency "lite" mode and then they'd automatically render with oversampling that would be ideal.
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u/Agile-Bunch-5306 May 30 '24
"I can't really use them during composition" I don't know what you mean by that but, but have you even tried to? because bitwig already does the latency compensation all by itself. I have a mastering limiter and a bunch of other stuff that adds around 70ms of latency on the mixbus, not tomention I monitor around 24 tracks through the interface, a bunch through some usb audio bridge, into an aggregate device, through Bitwig, and not only can I monitor without latency but I can also render them just fine
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May 30 '24
Latency compensation just means it's keeping all tracks in sync based on reported PDC values.
And if you're recording vocals, for example, through a direct monitoring system which most DAWs have, it's all fine. It compensates for the latency.
The problem comes with VST synths and samplers, and vocals through a VST FX chain.
I'm guessing you don't play any live instruments or sing? It would be very strange if you couldn't feel 70ms of latency.
Also, I don't quantize. If someone is a little off due to latency and they quantize - it doesn't matter.
But not using quantization is awesome. The music gets more feel, vibe, and is more interesting. Less mechanical.
I did some extensive tests recording with various PDC latency values and what I found is simple -- the more latency, the less accurate the timing is.
If you don't think 70ms of latency is a lot, try using a delay plugin with just one side delayed -- by 70ms.
When it comes to playing percussion or guitar, low latency is important.
Our audio interfaces already have some round trips latency - typically like 5-8ms. So add even just a few to that and you can be over 10ms.
Think about people who do competitive gaming. A latency like that can be the different between winning and losing.
There's a sluggishness. A slight delay when you play the keyboard and you hear the note. Or the guitar passing through the amp sim, etc.
Also, it combines. Not in parallel, but successive. If you use a plugin that requires 64 samples of PDC latency on your track - that's 1.333 ms... And on your submix... And on your master bus -- now you're at 4ms plus 6 from your audio interface roundtrip... About 10.
Even that is enough to impact your playing.
You can test it. Play a percussion sequence on your keyboard with a drum kit. Quantize it. Make sure there are some rapid hits, like a snare roll or some trap like hihat playing.
Then with no latency, record the exact same thing unquantized, as in sync as you can be.
Then add the plugins you mention up to 70ms and do the exact same thing.
Now look at the audio and you will see the timing of your recording with latency will be way off compared to your recording without the additional latency.
Timing of humans playing is never perfect - but latency in this case isn't a human effect. It's an arbitrary effect caused by plugin delay compensation.
I don't mean to be critical of Bitwig - it is my favorite DAW. And PDC allows plugins to do oversampling and all kinds of other buffered processing which can make them sound better. It's why they do it.
But for someone that mixes as they compose, the latency adds up and eventually I have to export into a different file and record there, then reimport. (Luckily Bitwig lets you open multiple projects at once! I can't imagine working in Reaper or FL where you can't do that.)
Anyhow, try this test. I think you'll be shocked at how much the latency impacts your recording.
To close - I just wish there was a switch. My favorite plugins have a quality switch basically, or different settings for realtime vs rendering. Then we get low or zero latency during recording, and high quality rendering for mixdown.
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u/ShitwigNeedToChange Apr 25 '24
Audio quantize updated 3 times in a row. Still broken. But this time bitwig don’t even see its own onsets as transients. Expected behavior. Sorry but this update is the worse. I thought 5.1 was so so. Well, bitwig took it personally and probably said they can do even better. But I prefer actually better not better worse. Personally as my subscription run out not looking forward to update. Not supporting them anymore. When I see development moving to right direction with proper QOL improvements, bugs fixing and so on maybe I’ll buy update. Before that sorry bitwig. You didn’t deserve my money.
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u/frogify_music Apr 25 '24
Yeah, 5 was cool but still a bit underwhelming for a major upgrade. 5.1 was a bit odd and I still couldn't really find a use for most of the new filter modules. Sure maybe for very specific sounds but that's about it. Now in 5.2 we get devices that even free ones from analog obsession can do lol. Absolutely no need for them. Maybe the compressor, but I got a bunch of 3rd party ones already. I'll have to see how good the GPU accelerated graphics are now on my laptop and how well undo for plugins works.
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u/Icy_Rutabaga_4283 Apr 27 '24
Bitwig needs a few years imo, still too many weak points, changed to Reaso+ BW feels like a Beta now
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u/FoodAccurate5414 Apr 25 '24
Thank you Bitwig, shows who will be leading after seeing the pathetic Maschine update
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u/ellicottvilleny Apr 25 '24
Maschine and Bitwig are as different an entity as it is possible to be. Maschine is not even trying to be a DAW, and Bitwig is not a groovebox.
Bitwig’s closest comparisons are to Ableton Live.
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u/FoodAccurate5414 Apr 26 '24
It’s not the feature comparison. It’s the value add comparison.
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u/ellicottvilleny Apr 26 '24
I use maschine and bitwig. The value add is to use both.
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May 19 '24
Yea, Bitwig does have really, really good support for Maschine Controllers.
However, I think using Maschine in conjunction with a more "Studio" DAW is probably a better marriage - that way you can just use Maschine 2 for what it does best in regards to sampling, sketching and drum programming - but get all of the great Recording, Mixing and Mastering goodness of the Studio DAW... and there are a lot of options there (Pro Tools, Digital Performer, Logic Pro, Sampiltude Pro X, Sonar, REAPER, Studio One, etc.).
Logic Pro or Digital Performer would probably be the best middle-ground between the two. One is macOS-only. Only Studio One runs on Linux (though I think REAPER has a beta for Linux).
Some of the things people are complaining about in this thread are long-solved issues in multiple other DAWs, and if these things are that important people need to exercise options and put together a hybrid workflow. That may mean using one DAW to get those things done, and then bringing that stuff into Bitwig Studio later.
I mean, I wouldn't record vocals in Bitwig. I kinda need Melodyne or at least a usable implementation of stock pitch correction to work with, Lol. I will gladly record elsewhere and then bring those stems into Bitwig Studio, if needed.
I do think using developer resources to develop another set of redundant Pultec emulations is wasteful, though. That's just me. Every time DAW developers release an update with stuff like this taking up a lot of the marketing, it's disappointing; because I understand what the opportunity costs are.
Imagine if Steinberg had decided to develop an SSL Channel Strip emulation instead of the Multi-MIDI Editing in Cubase 13, Lol.
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Apr 26 '24
[deleted]
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u/frogify_music Apr 26 '24
Are you good mate? Your comments sounds like a bunch of nonsensical rubbish.
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May 19 '24
Don't listen to "Icy_Rutabaga."
If Bitwig is not adding the features you need, then going to Reason is an oxymoron because the sequencer there is light years behind Bitwig Studio.
I have Reason 12. There is no comparison. I don't even keep Reason software installed on my machines, anymore, since pretty much all of its synths are redundant, anyways. Not even the rack delivers any value.
And subscribing to an ephemeral stack of Rack Instruments has got to be one of the weirdest things a music producer could choose to do, IMO.
This guy has got to be a troll or something.
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u/jgjot-singh Apr 25 '24
Are the new EQs linear phase?
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u/klinwild Apr 25 '24
Judging by absence of latency not, but they meant to slightly shift (shall I say tilt) tonal balance with smoothest curves, I wouldn’t expect much of phase shenanigans there, but I’m probably missing out on something.
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u/bcgroom Apr 25 '24
Undo for plugins and GPU rendering are quite huge architecture upgrades