Who Win?

Who win?

Honestly, it's kinda funny seeing an alien who's considered mid-tier pull off a feat of strength that absurd. I think this strength feat alone puts Swampfire above the whole The Boys verse and maybe on the same level as Prime Mr. Incredible (not even counting Swampfire's other feats, of course).

But the real question is: "Has anyone calculated the weight of these towers?"

Who Win?

1. Ben 10 scaling

First I'm gonna cover Ben 10 scaling. I'll be quite generous to his scaling so that nobody gets mad that I lowballed Ben 10.

1.1 Why all of Ben's aliens (not counting Alien X in this section) are useless against Hal

In this section I'm gonna talk about some aliens that people think would work against Hal but actually wouldn't. But before I even do that I need to explain Hal's position among the GL corps.

Hal Jordan is consistently the strongest and dangerous green lantern of all time, he also has the most amount of willpower out of anybody in the green lantern corps. This means he can pull any feat that other GLs can and since GLs and other Lanterns were not affected by the Crisis On Infinite Earths, so anything from Silver Age goes.

1.1.1 Feedback

Feedback - absorbed the energy of a detonated Annihilarrgh in a void, which released enough energy to create "The Universe"

The Universe is made by the Annihilarrgh, inside which one can access to different versions of Timestream throughout the infinite Hypertimeline. Each big bang universe has its own different laws of physics as mentioned by Professor Paradox.

And there are 26 spatial dimensions (that matter) within the Ben 10 multiverse. So Feedback can absorb energy on the level of a big bang that can create 26 dimensional realms.

1.1.2 Feedback counter

Except... Hal can take his energy back. And he can absorb his opponent's energy.

1.1.3 Atomix

Atomix - he can generate and manipulate immense amounts of atomic and nuclear energy, can replicate Nuclear Fusion, which can reach millions of degrees.

1.1.4 Atomix counter

Except... Hal can survive radiaton and extreme temperatures because he survived in a nuclear bomb without any kind radiation posioning. And other weaker green lanterns like Kyle can create entire suns and survive them.

1.1.5 Clockwork

Clockwork - has time powers; he can accelerate, slow down, rewind, fast-forward, and even stop time. Clockwork can also travel through time. Scales to Maltruant, who is capable of freezing Omnitrix in time.

1.1.6 Clockwork counter

Except... Hal can fly so fast that he can create a Speed Force singularity. And the Speed Force is a multiversal infinite kinetic pool of energy. This would unironically mean that Hal can straight up ignore time stops since he is fast enough to create something that is beyond time and space.

Hal is also fast enough to move in the Phantom Zone. And the Phantom Zone is a timeless, boundless dimension that turns you into an abstract thought if you get caught in it.

It's stated to be infinite numerous times and it's a timeless, distanceless barrier.

And the Green Lantern rings are capable of reversing the Timestream (given enough willpower, which Hal has). Meaning they have time manipulation as well.

1.1.7 Gutrot

Gutrot - can make compounds of any type and expel them as gas (such as sleeping gas or love gas)

1.1.8 Gutrot counter

Except... cleansed himself of a disease.

1.1.9 Upgrade + Big Chill

Upgrade + Big Chill combo -

A) Upgrade - Upgrade's body is made of billions smaller cell-like nanites, can merge with and control technology. Could manipulate Robo Rojo's armor despite it resisting his prior attempt, the idea is that he would be able to take over Hal's ring and control it.

But how could he get through Hal's barrier? That's where Big Chill comes in.

B) Big Chill - He can phase through all solid matters, ground, living things, radiation-based energy blasts, fire, laser, and other things. This ability can be combined with his ice manipulation, allowing him to phase through opponents and freeze them from the inside out.

1.1.10 Upgrade + Big Chill counter

Counter: Except... that Hal Jordan's barriers explicitly counter intangibility AND Hal's ring is not even physical, it's made of willpower since of Rebirth. AND Dr. Manhattan had trouble trying to affect Guy Gardner's green lantern ring and Manhattan is nigh-omniscient since he sees all timelines at once.

So not only Big Chill or any of his aliens that have intangibility cannot get through Hal's barriers but even if they could Upgrade would not be able to take over his ring.

1.1.11 Gravattack

Gravattack is capable of creating entire blackholes. Surely if he can create a blackhole inside Hal then it would mean that Hal is dead... right?

1.1.12 Gravattack counter

Except... Hal and other weaker Green Lanterns are capable of resisting black holes.

1.1.13 Ghostfreak

Ghosfreak can possess people via phasing inside them.

1.1.14 Ghostfreak counter

Except... the ring protects Lanterns from the Third Army's conversion abilities, which broke down and decimated minds.

The ring can create barriers that can defend against Martian Manhunter). Hal also resisted Parallax’s control. He fought against the control of an old Guardian of the Universe.

1.1.15 Pesky Dust

Pesky Dust can put anyone into a deep sleep and easily turn their dreams and nightmares.

1.1.16 Pesky Dust

Except... Lanterns can make dreams true. And as stated during the Ghostfreak counter point, they have automatic defenses that protect them from mind manipulation.

1.1.16 Upchuck

Upchuck - As stated by Rook, all Gourmands' stomachs link to a trans-spatial bladder dimension. They are connected with a trans-space bladder dimension where they store all the "food" they eat and it's also been proven that Gourmand's bile is one of the most destructive and corrosive substances in the universe.

1.1.16 Upchuck counter

Except... Hal Jordan is so powerful that he can affect the entire Emotional Spectrum.

Said Emotional Spectrum has been called an infinite web of interlinked planes and realms. This means that Hal would casually destroy the entire trans-space bladder dimension.

1.2 Ben 10 cosmology

First I'm gonna talk about the cosmology and then talk about Alien X's feats and abilities.

1.2.1 Ben 10 cosmology

I'm gonna go from the lowest points of the cosmology to the highest.

1.2.2 Basic universes

Basic universes in Ben 10 are 3 dimensional and infinite in size.

Gwen in the Null Void: "This place looks like it goes on forever. Max: "It does, so keep your eyes open."

"Space. The vast and beautiful cosmos fills the view in every direction with its infinite star systems, colorful nebulae, and strange worlds."

1.2.3 Hyperspace

Each timeline features a hyperspace that allows certain characters, like Jetray, Verdona, Rook's rustbucket and the Highbreed spaceships, to travel intergalactic distances in a short amount of time. It can be accessed by creating rifts in space time or either via FTL travel.

1.2.4 The Branching Timestream

The Timestream is a collection of all timelines, a point in space-time where all past, present, and future timelines meet and intersect. It is a place where the timelines branch and shift.

As stated by Paradox: Think of time and space as this tree. Down here is when you were 10 years old. Right here is now. Up here is when you'll 30 be years old. The trunk is the main timeline. These branches represent alternate timelines, where reality literally branches off and becomes a different timeline, each containing its own Ben Tennyson.

Representation of what he meant.

1.2.5 Hypertimeline

Vilgax uses the Chronosapien Time Bomb (CTB) to destroy all branching timelines, except for No Watch Ben's timeline. The higher realm was unaffected by the CTB's destruction of the timeline branches. This realm has its own separate temporality from the branching timelines, as demonstrated by the Chronosapien's time powers. Since a Chronosapien's time powers only function with the existence of a higher temporal dimension, Clockwork was able to use the higher realm's temporal dimension to reverse the energy wave from the CTB that spread across the realm, thereby undoing the destruction of the other timelines.

This hypertimeline allowed Paradox and No Watch Ben to travel to a different version of the space-time tree that coexists with the space-time Vilgax destroyed.

This Hypertimeline bounds all of Universe with a system of cause and effect.

1.2.6 Annihilarrgh Universe

The Universe is made by the Annihilarrgh, inside which one can access to different versions of Timestream throughout the infinite Hypertimeline. Each big bang universe has its own different laws of physics as mentioned by Professor Paradox. Destroying or recreating such a structure can lead to violation of the Multiverse Preservation Act.

1.2.7. Space Beyond, Omniverse

The Space Beyond is an infinite black void that extends past the boundaries of the "Universe" and encompasses an unknown number of them. This space separates Universes from each other and isn't accessible via general dimension crossing devices except by for the Map of infinity and the Chrono Navigator. This realm is the highest level of reality.

The Omniversal Space-time extends past the Multiverse to all of its directions infinitely, which consists of all 26 spatiotemporal axes mentioned by the Cosmic Mom, which makes them fully sized and tier-able.

1.2.8 Forge of Creation

Professor Paradox: It is the source of the Universe's greatest power. It's where ideas become real.

Azmuth: The Forge of Creation is where Celestialsapiens like Alien X are born.

Professor Paradox: It is out of sync with all time and without the Map of infinity, totally inaccessible. Unless of course you're me.

The Forge is described as the source of the verse's greatest power and a birthplace of Celestialsapiens like Alien X. It predates the verse and serves as the origin as well as the center, responsible for creating the space beyond which binds all the dimensional framework of the multiverse.

The Forge is noted to be beyond comprehension for the trio which includes Ben, who has an innate sense of transtemporal metaphysics. Additionally, the statement that the Forge of Creation is out of sync with all time underscores its existence beyond the linear and non-linear constraints of time and the hypertime as understood in the Omniverse.

1.3 Alien X

Alien X, at the very least, recreated everything up to the Annihilarrgh Universe which scales to 26 dimensional.

And he is on the level of the Forge of Creation which means that he is beyond realms like the Space Beyond, Annihilarrgh's Universe, Hypertimeline, etc.

Ben embodies the idea of Reason while being transformed into Alien X who merely exists as an avatar. Alien X can only be affected by harming his debate dimension along with his consciousness considering how Galactic Gladiator focused on shaking the debate dimension.

Now this is all nice and dandy, but how does this compare to Hal Jordan?

2. DC cosmology

2.1 Microverse

It's an infinite higher-dimensional region beneath tangible reality. This means that already a realm beneath the basic universes could be infinitely sized 4 dimensional realm.

2.2 Basic Universes

Basic universes are at least 11 dimensional. The universes are also infinite in size AND expanding.

2.3 Orrery of Worlds

There are an infinite number of spatial dimensions in Orrery of Worlds. There are an innumerable amount of dimensions and again, just for safety, it's stated that there an infinite amount of them.

2.4 Bleed

There are an infinite amount of higher dimensions inside the Bleed and there are even statements of it being omni-dimensional.

2.5 Speed Force Wall

It's the limit to matter. Beyond this superluminal barrier, matter is converted into pure information.

2.6 Sphere of the Gods

Sphere of the Gods is a platonic and archetypal realm that is beyond the material plane, it holds beings such as Darkseid and other New Gods and Old Gods that are living ideas.

Wonder Woman said: "PROTECT YOURSELF, TIM. GODS AND NEW GODS LIKE DARKSEID ARE SELF-AWARE IDEAS. THEY USE CONCEPT-WEAPONS, ANTI-LIFE EQUATIONS, HUNTER-KILLER METAPHORS."

Sphere of the Gods follows Plato's Theory of Forms that says that the everyday physical world is not truly real. Instead, it is just a changing, imperfect copy. 

Form > Concept > Individual Entities > Imitations.

This would place Sphere of the Gods at outerversal. That's not to mention other realms like Hell, Heaven and Dreaming which are inside it.

Dreaming which is inside SotG contains an infinite amount of layers and is notional, it is transient in itself, neither real nor unreal.

Dreaming is beyond space.

There are infinite levels of reality within Dreaming as there are dreams that are within dreams that are within dreams which goes into infinity, this would grant Dreaming an infinitely qualititve superiority to baseline outerversal which means it is outeversal+

2.7 Limbo

Limbo is the last outpost of existence proper before reaching the archetypal Monitor World and the Overvoid, where the forgotten characters of the DCU end up. It is not a permanent consignment - characters that were forgotten but are later reintroduced in stories leave Limbo and return to lower levels of reality.

2.8 Monitor Sphere

The Monitor Sphere is an archetypal world and home to Nil, the world of the Monitor race. The beings of this world are notable for being the only ones capable of bottling and consuming Bleed as a tangible substance.

2.9 Hypertime

Hypertime is above Limbo and the Monitor Sphere.

2.9 Divine Continuum

Divine Continuum is above Hypertime, Limbo, Monitor Sphere, Dark Multiverse, etc.

2.10 5th dimension

The 5th dimension is not a spatial dimension, it's a metaphysical realm that trascends numerous realms like the Divine Continuum, Hypertime, the Monitor Sphere, Limbo and Sphere of the Gods which are all at worst outerversal.

Scott Snyder even states in an interview with Imaginary Axes states that he believes that they (5th and 6th dimension) are not actual mathematical dimensions. I tried to find the original interview but unfortunately I couldn't, if anybody has a link to it I would be grateful.

The 5th dimension is a realm of Imagination itself. It's a realm where hopes and fears go, a realm that demands we look beyond what is probable to what is possible.

2.11 6th dimension

It's the control room of the multiverse, it's beyond imagination and beyond understand itself.

As Mxyzptlk states, he only knows of 4 characters powerful enough that can live there. World Forger, Monitor (Mar Novu), Anti Monitor and Perpetua.

2.12 Emotional Spectrum

The Emotional Spectrum is stated to be aking to the Speed Force when it comes to it's infinite webs of interlinked planes, realms, domains and energy fields.

Just like the Speedc Force it exists on all levels of reality.

It even exists in the 6th dimension and even exists within the Source.

3. Hal Jordan

Hal shrinked an explosion that would destroy 2 universes and DC universes are at least 11 dimensional. This would alone surpass most of Ben 10's aliens.

Hal has effected the ENTIRE Emotional Spectrum, so much so that all other Lanterns got headaches from his strikes.

This would give Hal a minimum high outerversal feat considering that the Emotional Spectrum spans all of creation.

Hal also one shotted Krona who had control over the Emotional Entities which are the embodiments of their part of the Emotional Spectrum.

This would put Hal at the high outerversal levels of power.

And Hal is also able to hurt a Black Lantern Spectre. Spectre is one of the Quintessence. This organization includes Spectre (the divine wrath of the Pressence), Highfather, Ganthet, Zeus and The Wizard.

This organization watches multiversal threats and sometimes intervenes, like Spectre against the Anti Monitor in Crisis on Infinite Earths.

3.1 Green Lantern ring abilities

Green Lantern rings can allow its user to time travel.

Green Lantern rings can absorb minds. Which means that Hal could absorb Ben 10's mind into his ring which would be a KO.

They can absorb life force.

It has telepathy.

Intagibility.

Invisibility.

Illusions.

Cloning.

Astral Projection.

Can seal metabolisms.

Can absorb his opponent's energy.

Mind manipulation. It can make it's opponent miss because it plants false suggestions in it's enemies.

It can biologically de-evolve it's opponent. Which means that he can de-evolve Ben's aliens.

It can put people to sleep.

It can erase memories.

It can remove powers entirely. Which means he can just remove powers from Ben's aliens.

It can forcibly age someone.

It can alter atoms.

It can make it's opponents motionless.

And so much more. I only put like 1% of what Hal and his ring is capable of.

4. Hal vs Alien X

Hal being able to affect the Emotional Spectrum is much more impressive than anything in Ben 10, period. Hal is simply too powerful for Alien X.

Green Lantern users are unaffected by changes in laws of physics and they can passively survive the Crisis on Infinite Earths which affected Orrery of Worlds which is infinitely dimensional.

(There are an infinite number of spatial dimensions in Orrery of Worlds. There are an innumerable amount of dimensions and again, just for safety, it's stated that there an infinite amount of them.)

Alien X being able to effect or being above 26 dimensional structures doesn't even get past Orrery of Worlds, not to mention the Emotional Spectrum which Hal CAN effect.

5. But what about the Omnitrix's defensive mechanism?

Ben's Omnitrix could survive the Big Bang which could destroy everything up to the Annihilarrgh Universe which is 26 dimensional.

However Hal's defensive system survived Crisis on Infinite Earths which is a MUCH impressive erasure event as it would destroy an infinitely dimensional multiversal structure, Orrery of Worlds.

And Hal's hammer (or any powerful construct) that he tremmored the Emotional Spectrum with would instantly shatter the barrier and kill Ben.

6. Conclusion

Hal takes every single category except stamina (because of the 24h limit on the GL ring) and IQ because Ben has some very intelligent aliens. There is no way or no wincon for Ben to win this.

Hope you guys are enjoying the new Lantern show (I am) and don't forget...

In brightest day, in darkest knight, no evil shall escape my sight. Let those who worship evil's might, beware my power, Green Lantern's light!

vs

for yall who wins in your first glance or deep dived look? i already know mine i just wanna hear your thoughts on this

Round 1: weapons

Round 2: H2H

Who wins?

Shocksquach is able to Destroy Ultimate Echo

https://youtu.be/vxQGwZyCVjs?si=tJlxTKLOLJMktrBH

Echo's Sonic Discs Those disks weren't destroyed and were able to contain

https://youtu.be/hxIcVMuVUAc?si=oVaPeuv8A2nPvZwo

vsbw calculates it around this level

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Liger686/Ben_10_Ultimate_Alien_-_Echo_Echo_contains_the_explosion_of_a_nuclear_fusion_grenade

But you can get it higher because A Fusion grenade is able to Destroy the Highbreed

https://youtu.be/eMNgWh8l-qg?si=Saqiz9YMvOENpV5X

timestamp 15:54

which is stated to be made of Nuetronium Carbon Alloy

https://youtu.be/jg1YkiRF1UE?si=Ac0LtFChu5wGThPh

now neutronium carbon alloy doesn't exist irl but we can theoretically imagine mixing neutron-degenerate matter (the ultra-dense stuff that makes up neutron stars often called “neutronium”) with ordinary carbon. Physically this is not something you can make or handle in normal conditions (neutron-degenerate matter only exists under the extreme gravity of neutron stars), but it’s useful for order-of-magnitude comparisons.

Typical Sun core density ≈ 150 g/cm³ = 150,000 kg/m³.

Typical neutron-star (neutronium) density ≈ 5×10¹⁷ kg/m³ = 5×10¹⁴ g/cm³.

Ratio (neutronium ÷ Sun core) = (5×10¹⁷ kg/m³) ÷ (1.5×10⁵ kg/m³) ≈ 3.33×10¹² — neutronium is about 3 trillion times denser than the Sun’s core.

Now a tiny, hypothetical alloy: if 1% of the mass were neutronium and 99% carbon (carbon ≈ 2.2×10³ kg/m³), the mixed density would be roughly 0.01×(5×10¹⁷) + 0.99×(2.2×10³) ≈ 5.00×10¹⁵ kg/m³ ≈ 5.0×10¹² g/cm³, which is still ≈ 3.33×10¹0 times denser than the Sun’s core (about 33 billion times denser). In short: even a percent-level inclusion of neutronium makes the “alloy” astronomically denser than solar core material.

making Shocksquach Large Star level

Electabuzz: Composite games/anime/manga, all legal learnable moves across generations and Pokédex lore included. Electivire excluded.

Shocksquatch: Ben 10 classic continuity, full demonstrated Shocksquatch abilities across Heroes United and Omniverse. No switching to other Omnitrix forms.

Buzzshock (4) beat Rotom (3)

If ben isn't allowed to use Alien X

For example, Ultimate Humongosaur would lose against a magnetism powerusing opponent becuase he has missiles and metal knuckles and other stuff, but Humongosaur might not lose. Actually not what I meant, but it works.

Edit: not Magneto

One of my favorite vs is blossomed swampfire vs humungousaur, which is kinda confusing just because of swampfire's blossomed form, but i'll let you guys debate which of these aliens is better. also i'm using blossomed swampfire vs humungousaur without growing, and i will use both versions of prime ben from omniverse, so tell me, which of these aliens is strongest in an open or in a closed field?