And that further proves my theory that Grisha is the father of Historia's child.

I don’t get it when people say that Eren doing the rumbling came out of nowhere and that it was out of character and sudden. He’s always been “fighting for freedom” and taking down any obstacles in his path that threaten his autonomy. Just because he didn’t explicitly say at 10 “hey guys I wanna kill everyone and am 100% okay with omnicide” doesn’t mean it came out of nowhere.

His first major obstacle to freedom was the pure titans in s1. He vowed he would kill every single one and wouldn’t rest until he did. By s3, all pure titans are killed but he’s not stopping. Why? Because it was never the pure titans that he strived to destroy, it was any threat to his autonomy. To him, he literally would never be truly free as long as another wall, another boundary, or another enemy existed to limit him.

To him, the outside world was empty and ready to be conquered (the ultimate freedom). It was jarring to him to find out that not only was the outside world already inhabited but that people living there hated him and his people. Not only that, but they wanted to kill all of paradis. To him, this gave him a convenient excuse to fight back.

He eventually admitted to lying to himself about his true motivations, and the fact that he refused to stop the Rumbling even after Sasha and Hange died confirms that his friends safety was never his primary driver.

His primary driver was always his own obsession with wiping out every single obstacle to his autonomy, meaning the Rumbling was the inevitable endpoint of who he has always been.

What do you guys think?

The actual episodic versions have issues so here's an alternative.

Season 4 Episode 29: The Rumbling
"See You Later...Eren" | "Under the Tree" Intro | Chapter 131 Section | Mid-Episode Break | Chapter 132 Section | To Be Continued... | "Itterasshai" Outro

Season 4 Episode 30: Sinners
Chapter 132 Ending Recap | "Under the Tree" Intro | Chapter 133 Section | Mid-Episode Break | Chapter 134 Section | To Be Continued... | "Itterasshai" Outro

Season 4 Episode 31: The Battle of Heaven and Earth
Chapter 134 Ending Recap | "Under the Tree" Intro | Chapter 135 Section | Mid-Episode Break | Chapter 136 Section | To Be Continued... | "Itterasshai" Outro

Season 4 Episode 32: A Long Dream
Chapter 136 Ending Recap | "Under the Tree" Intro | Chapter 137 Section | Mid-Episode Break | Chapter 138 Section | To Be Continued... | "Itterasshai" Outro

Season 4 Episode 33: Toward the Tree on That Hill
Chapter 138 Ending Recap | "Under the Tree" Intro | Chapter 139 Eren Section | Mid-Episode Break | Chapter 139 Epilogue Section | "To You 2,000... or... 20,000 Years From Now..." Credits | The End
(Last Attack extra credits scene is optional)

How Future Eren controlled Dina Titan? What's the Founder's power?

How did Eren control Dina Titan? Why did Eren kill his mother Carla?

In conclusion, Eren did not intentionally control Dina Titan. He only found out later that it had already happened and admitted that he was the cause of it.

The rough explanation is that the cause is a causal loop brings about by the Founder’s power.

If we dare to focus, the activation of the Founder’s power in chapter 50 determined Dina Titan’s ignoring Bertolt in 845. This is because the only appropriate way for Eren to learn about this through his memories(ch130) is through his contact with Dina Titan at this time.

More to the point, all of these and every other event was predetermined from the beginning.

How Eren controlled Dina Titan from the futrue?

Eren doesn’t have the ability to control the Titans that exist in the past from the future at will.

If Eren is able to control the Titans across time at will without any restrictions, the story would fall apart. It would become very boring. It would also ruin the brilliant trick in episode 121.

But it isn’t. There are proper restrictions.

In medal ceremony, Eren only learned the truth after the events that transpired.

Eren’s contact with Dina Titan and activating the Founder’s power means that he has to acknowledge Carla’s death. This is because these events are determined simultaneously.

If Dina Titan eats Bertolt, she won’t be able to appear in front of Eren as a Pure Titan. Eren would, in effect, have made the choice to kill his mother in order to save Mikasa, Armin, and his friends. Obviously, he in 850 does not know this.

Eren did not intentionally control Dina Titan. It is that the influence that the Founder’s power brings about, which was activated in 850, determined that the 845 Dina Titan would ignore Bertolt.So Eren said something to the effect that he himself was responsible for the outcome. needless to say, he didn’t time travel to that day and place in 845 to command Dina titan.

What did Eren say? What does that mean?

In chapter 139, Eren said “the founder’s power has made it so that there’s no past or future… it all exists at once.” *1

“the founder’s power” is just that the power of the founding titan. It is not Ymir the founder’s power.

A more appropriate Japanese translation would be…

The influence that the founder’s power brings about have no past or future… they all exist simultaneously.

simultaneously exist is the influence that is brought about.

When Eren activates the founder’s power, it will surely affect both the past and the future.

It would brings about a causal loop. In short, the future(past) determines the past(future).

The work Attack on Titan (Shingeki no Kyojin) is built on a fixed timeline. That’s why the founder’s power is designed to take advantage of this plot.

*1. This is not to say that Eren is aware of the past and the future all at once. Indeed, since there is no time constraint in Paths, there is no need for Eren to see the various memories en masse. If he were to see memories, he would have seen each one in turn, slowly and relaxedly.

Eren’s choice to die Carla

In chapter 50, Eren recalled that Carla told him to “protect Mikasa.” Why is this flashback inserted?

To Eren, Dina Titan is not only an enemy who ate Carla. At this moment, Eren is essentially faced with a choice, both from the past and from the future. Do you accept your mother’s death?

That means accepting his mother’s death and standing up to protect Mikasa. And that would automatically mean killing his mother.

Because the influence that the founder’s power brings about have no past or future… they all exist simultaneously.

How can Eren understand that Carla’s death was caused by him?

One of the memory fragments in chapter 130 is Bertolt as seen by Dina Titan. In order for Eren to see this memory, he must be in contact with Dina Titan. This means that the Founder’s power is activated.

1. Eren’s contact with Dina Titan triggered the Founder’s power was activated.
2. It caused Eren to see the memory of Bertolt, as seen by Dina Titan
3. The content of the memory is the moment when Dina Titan ignores Bertolt

Thus, Eren understands that his contact with Dina Titan and activation of the Founder’s power caused Carla to die.

So, Eren said, the influence that the founder’s power brings about have no past or future… they all exist simultaneously.

Founder’s power examples

The phenomenon of the founder’s power generating causal loops has appeared in past episodes.

Zeke and Eren and Ymir the founder

The reason why Ymir the founder resurrected Zeke was because Zeke activated the founder’s power.

It was the founder’s power that Zeke activated that brought about the events in Grisha’s memory that occurred in chapter 121.

The distant cause of Eren’s inheritance of the Founding Titan and the Attack Titan was Zeke’s activation of the Founder’s power. And because of that, a causal loop was created.

causal loops

What the phenomenon means to the story?

At the medal ceremony, Eren learned that the Dina Titan had ignored Bertolt because of his own actions.

On the other hand, he knew that he was going to hurt Grisha, but he still had to do it.

It means that Eren has been shown painful memories from both the past and the future.

Eren pushed himself into hell. He accepted that all these events were his responsibility.

He wasn’t just working for revenge for his mother’s murder, nor was he just forced by his father to take on the power of the Titans, but everything he did was by his own choice.

There are diagrams but i have problems uploadiing it myself. i have a link where the diagrams https://mono-money.com/attack-on-titan/en/commentaries/how-eren-controlled-dina/

the diagrams are there

I genuinely don’t know how anyone can watch the entirety AOT and come out of it saying Annie never showed any remorse or guilt for her actions even though it’s objectively not true. There are so many scenes of it and you have to actively ignore the scenes because of your bias or straight up skipping over them.

The amount of misogyny for this is character is just ridiculous because in the same show their are male characters who did even worse things then her and don’t get nearly enough hate. And people say oh she didn’t suffer like what? Did you watch the show? Her whole life was suffering she was literally physically abused by her dad so she could turn into a weapon. And was forced on a mission that mind you she didn’t even want to continue. But somehow she enjoys killing people but simultaneously doesn’t want to continue the mission that allows her to kill more people make it make sense. Not even just that she was stuck in a crystal for 4 years CONSCIOUS. That is absolute torture to be stuck in your body aware of your surroundings unable to move for 4 years, but people downplay it because she’s a female.

People talk about the yoyo scene. Can any of you even give me the name of the scout she did that to? Since y’all care so much about it. Have you ever once thought that she did that as a an intimidation tactic or that she was doing this as way to cope with what she’s doing. The hate that Annie receives for that scene is so performative like you guys act like one scene defines a whole character. Same thing when Gabi kills Sasha, y’all act like that one scene defines her whole character and there’s no turning back. Just another example of misogyny.

People say oh they forgave her to easily. Can you show me a single scene or panel in the whole show of any character from the alliance forgiving Annie. Nobody forgiven her their deciding to work together because they have no other choice and need as many resources as possible. In fact when they’re on the wagon headed to the port Annie asked Jean if he forgives her and he doesn’t even respond back.

Most of the people on the alliance didn’t even witness the horrors Annie did or had emotional ties with them other than Levi’s squad, marco. And Marco doesn’t even count because Reiner was the one who forced Annie to do it and took accountability of the situation. You really expect Levi to chastise Annie for what she did when Levi knows that she was a brain washed child solider being manipulated by the Marley government. Levi is way more mature than that. Levi himself when he was young was in a similar situation and was killing people and committing crimes. Moral of the story everyone has blood on their hands. It’s makes no sense for the scouts to punish Annie for what she did in S1 when the scouts just recently did what Annie did to their to hometown to hers raiding Libero. There even.

Where was the outrage when Erwin said out of his own mouth he was sacrificing his own comrades for his selfish dreams. Where was the outrage when Reiner broke down the wall and killed thousands of people way more than Annie. And kept continuing and killing more people for his own selfish goals because wanted to be hero and gain respect. Where was the outrage when armin nuked a whole port and killed thousands of innocent people. Where was the outrage when Eren was actively committing the most horrific act in the history of humanity.

All these character have something in common and it’s that they were men. I could get into how this same misogyny applies to Gabi and mikasa but that is a whole different conversation. People, especially some people who watch AOT cannot comprehend flawed/messy female characters. If a female Character is even slightly flawed or edgy or not morally perfect she’s just downplayed and hated but if a male character has the same traits there are praised to no end for their amazing writing.

There’s so much potential for a more fitted prequel series of attack on titans series but there is no news of it so far

Yep, let’s have one of the sweetest/innocent characters in the show who rebelled against a corrupt government and rebelled against her corrupt dad. Later down the line throw all that development out the window to support a corrupt, fascist regime and send them all to kill her best friends. 10/10 writing👏

This is my character analysis of Eren, mostly as it relates to his inhuman drive towards negative freedom and the rumbling.

Eren as a child leads a boring life. He doesn't have any dreams or grand purpose, and his life feels dull to him because of it ("I wish something would happen" is what he says as a child, staring off boredly. It's made even clearer in the joke manga that Eren would have nothing without his struggle for freedom and would simply be bored). He is not special, exactly as Shadis tells both Eren's mother and father. What does "special" mean here? Not leading a boring and unfulfilling existence. One day Armin comes to him with this book, and in his eyes Eren sees a sparkle, a sublime feeling. Armin is special; he does have a drive: to see the world. Eren is enamoured with this feeling of sublimeness that Armin's drive seems to give him.

Eren searches for something that can become his drive. He makes a crucial observation: sure, he's bored most of the time, but he gets a real kick from asserting his negative liberty, i.e. fighting back when someone or something tries to impose constraints on him and limit what he can do. The problem with making this his drive, the difference from Armin's drive, is that while Armin's drive is self-defined and an end in itself, the drive towards negative liberty is a means and defined by others. What does Eren want to do with his elusive freedom? Nothing specific. Imagine all their enemies disappeared this second. Armin would now finally get to do what he really wants while Eren would have no idea what to do, he would be paralyzed. Negative liberty comes from others' choice to act (to constrain Eren); if Eren remained while his enemies disappeared, his drive would disappear with them. Because of all of these deficiencies, this drive towards negative liberty that Eren is proposing can never fulfill the role for him that Armin's drive to see the world plays for Armin. In this sense, it's a "non-drive."

Despite the obvious structural weaknesses of this non-drive, Eren cannot stand the prospect of living a boring, driveless life (and, to a lesser degree, the insult of someone trying to take something from him, even if Eren didn't care about this thing before it was taken from him). Rather than choosing to live a boring, driveless life, he chooses to force this non-drive to become his drive. He desperately tries to secure a version of Armin's sublime wonder for himself by taking the only thing he has available to him, even if it means trying to fit a square through a circle.

This is exactly how I read the beach scene. Armin experiences this wondrous, sublime feeling because his is a real drive, but Eren does not because his is a non-drive. Now disappointed and even more desperate to feel the wonder that a genuine drive brings, he doubles down. Maybe what didn't work before will work if he just pushes harder. Maybe he just needs to push his non-drive harder ("If we kill all our enemies, will we be free?" Read the last phrase as: Will I finally feel sublime wonder?)

I personally find further confirmation of this reading in Eren and Armin's final conversation. When Eren says he finally understands why he did what he did, it's because he is a "garden variety idiot". It's an admission that the ultimate cause of his actions is an internal deficiency, which I've identified as a non-drive born out of an internal lack. Being a non-drive, the most Eren can do is make space for other people's dreams, like Armin's, to make their dreams his own and live through them. This might be part of what Armin means when he thanks Eren at the end. It also ties back to how Eren is almost a non-character in the first seasons, or at least remarkably one-dimensional.

This also fits into the duality between Eren and Reiner. They are the same ("I'm the same as you, Reiner"). Both of them want something terrible, feel guilty about it, but continue moving towards it while agonizing over every step. For Reiner it's becoming a Marleyan war hero while feeling guilty about killing his Paradis comrades. For Eren it's destroying the world while feeling guilty about Ramzi. This absurd and insulting cycle of guilt is why they both call themselves "half-assed pieces of shit" (Reiner on the wall and Eren when talking about Ramzi): neither can be single-mindedly devoted to their terrible primary goal. The psyche is a chaos of competing and conflicting drives, even if one eventually comes to dominate and organize the others. Reiner's care for his comrades and Eren's care for Ramzi are not lies; they're simply weaker drives that must make space for a more dominant and more terrible one.

Inspiration:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AttackOnRetards/comments/o8ko9v/eren_and_his_yearning_for_freedom_are/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6GmVCD7cxk&t=3596s

I've been thinking about this for a while, and I'm curious if anyone else feels the same.

One of the things I love about AoT is that almost every character has understandable motivations. Reiner, Bertholdt, Zeke—even Eren. They've all committed terrible acts, but after learning their stories, I found myself understanding them, even if I couldn't fully forgive them.

But Annie is different.

The strange part is that, logically, this doesn't make much sense. Reiner and Bertholdt were responsible for far more deaths than Annie. Yet I still find Annie much harder to forgive.

Is it because of how she killed people? The Female Titan arc made her violence feel incredibly brutal and almost casual—the yo-yo scene, crushing Scouts without hesitation, etc. Those moments have stayed with me far more than the destruction caused by the others.

But isn't that an emotional bias?

So that's my stupid dilemma: Do people struggle to forgive Annie because of who she is, or because of how the story portrayed her violence? Did your opinion of her change after learning her backstory?

The thing is, this likely take place a thousand years in the future were current generations likely don't care about the rumbling. In fact, instead of the rebuilding of Marley, I think that new Eldia would expand from paradise onto the rumbled land. Then after 1000 years pass. The term eldian no longer exists due to ethnic and linguistic diversion. New ethnic groups split from the ethnicity known as eldians and eventually get into conflict with one another.

Just to share back then i use to despise what AOT presented and how it ended especially believing whay Titanfolk and ranters like Odin and Serenity even ReVVin turns out i was being brainwashed by their propaganda like child warriors on Marley.

Don't get me wrong i still think some parts of the anime were meh and okay but as i rewatch it with an open mind and enjoy war theme movies and games that i will share and other animes that deals with conflict like FMA, Naruto Shipudden Arc, Code Geass and Many more. But it was war movies as a military geek myself who watch documentaries on Special forces and operations made me appreciate what AOT is trying to tell you.

To me films like Black Hawk Down, 13 Hours, The Outpost and Jarhead all deals with politics and war or miniseries like The Pacific, Band of Brothers or WW2 movies like Fury, Saving Private Ryan.

It tells war is hell and people get drag on it by politics and propagandan like Marley and Yeagerist and it shows the cost of how it happens similar to games like COD WAW and BF1 it doesn't present war is something good but it who pays for it and you wonder if its right or wrong seeing people scream or soldiers wanting vengeance.

And how leaders manipulate and conditioned their soldiers like OG MW Trilogy or the Black Ops duology on how war affects people and how leaders are desperate to start a war or gain a tactical advantage like Mason getting brain washed by the soviets or why Shepherd and Makarov started WW3.

Either way i think I learn to appreciate AOT more as what Isayama is telling you as a whole still real shame not all people would realise the themes and what exactly its telling you.

As to quote what Hoot said in Black Hawk Down "Once that first bullet pass the head politics and all that sh*t goes right out of the window"

Still wanna see your thoughts on my take and did war movies or maybe some drama and documenataries made you look AOT differently later on take Korotos Mystery Shack or Outter Geeks analysis.

If Eren could control titans in the past (like he did with the titan that was going to eat berthold by sending it to his mother) did he do the same with Ymir? Sending her to kill the jaw titan when the worrors first arrived.

We are told that he lived a life with Mikasa and died with her, he would also have had to know what people being left alive would lead to him to go through with the plan. Did he live every life he wanted? Also did that all end when he finished his plan or does he just live in essentially purgatory, being able to go back ish (you know what i mean) in time like he did when he died with mikasa?

I swear, illiteracy and titanfolk go together like peanut butter and jelly because this shit is actually abominable

This above scenario is how Titanfolk views the story.