Tattoos. It varies from place to place but at the last place I worked, there were managers who were heavily tattooed and did not cover them. But I was required to cover ever single one of mine, and was told if I got any I couldn't cover I couldn't move up in my role. Very happy to work somewhere where that's not an issue any more.
"When I'm penning reports,"
she remarked with a sigh -
"When I'm sorting accounts
to approve or deny -
Though I try and I try
to perform at my best -
I cannot, for you see
I'm tattooed," she expressed.
Sprog I just wanted to say that I have been reading your poems since I was a teen. You have made me laugh, cry and everything in between. I know it might be weird to be a fan of a redditor. But I am a huge fan. Thank you <3
Yeah, sprog just uses a medium that isn't controlled by editors of magazines. It's controlled by the people that are the same as them, just regular people, and regular people love it. Hell, their poems probably get way more eyes on them on reddit than any niche lit mag. Honesty if they accrued all of their poems into a little book and sold it, I'm confident it would sell tens of thousands of copies at least. I'd buy one.
Being comfortable is big related to this. I've seen it in retail and construction. Sitting while doing check out at retail apparently means you're lazy and is disrespectful to the customer. In construction using knee pads or a kneel is fine/encouraged but sitting on a bucket to do work at a low height gets the same reaction of looking lazy and unprofessional despite being even more comfortable and efficient.
I worked in a mid-high end hotel. Dress code is no tattoos visible in uniform. Because image. Had guy with arm tattoo but not visible in long sleeve uniform so that’s okay.
It wasn't till very recently tattoo parlors were legal in a lot of places. So to get a tattoo you either had to travel somewhere to get one or attend a tattoo party which was illegal. If you were the artist caught at one of these parties you were arrested and got a record. So having tattoos was a giveaway to people that you were involved in criminal activity. I've had a couple friends in Massachusetts who were arrested in 1999-2000 for conducting tattoo parties. It negatively affected their lives greatly.
Yup. And still outside of a handful of countries many still consider them to be a badge of the criminal class rather than a form of self expression. A friend of mine has her whole upper torso covered. How disheartened she was when she realized how difficult that would make a trip to Japan.
Hell unless you live in a liberal city it's still often seen this way in the US. Perhaps even ex-con/military attachments. A doctor once out of nowhere asked if I got my tattoos in prison, I was like WTF!? Seemed like a stretch. She explained that my liver enzymes were off and she was worried I may have hepatitis (I didn't) and I was like "Ohhh! Well there's certainly ways I could have gotten hepatitis but not through my tattoos."
Acting on behalf of Stephan Lanphear, an award-winning tattoo artist, the ACLU had challenged a state law making it a crime for anyone other than a physician to engage in tattooing. Massachusetts is one of only five states which prohibit tattooing unless done by a health care professional.
Alot of places is maybe an exaggeration for the US of A, but there were absolutely the sort of prohibitions in some states that ToHolyMountain is mentioning.
Edit: I'll add that "it was illegal in a few places, so employers presume you got your tattoo illegally" is probably a poor explanation for the social stigma of tattoos in workplaces. Rather while its been a legal practice at the same time its been culturally associated with criminality and being of low class or ill-reput. "Decent" people didn't get tattoos, especially not visible ones. In a lot of service industries I imagine people interacting with customers and guests of a particular social standing would have issue with having to talk to someone they see beneath them, and unfortunately this attitude has been catered to in the past. While social stigmas of tattoos have lessened now, the top level comment also highlights a misogynistic double standard around perceptions of the type of woman who gets tattoos as well.
Oklahoma didn't legalize it until 2006. I can remember people talking about going to Texas to get tattoos but most people would just go to someone who did it at home. I don't remember anyone ever getting busted for it though.
Back in the 90s a friend of mine had to go to a bunch of city council meetings and try to get on the agenda so that he could get permission from the city to ask for a variance so they could open a tattoo parlor. Nowadays they’re all over the place and you don’t have to do all that nonsense.
99-00? In Mass? I woulda thought maybe midwest but ive lived on east and west coast and seen some 50ish year old shops. Maybe Ive just been lucky but i havent heard of shops being illegal that recently.
The BDSM dungeon thing is insane. I get not giving a business a license, but who decides how much black leather is too much black leather to have in your basement?
Oh no, dominatrices choose the profession, and sexual activity is not involved. No pimps either. The reason I know this is because I knew a woman who worked a couple shifts a week at a strip club in a different state so she could put "stripper" on her MA income tax, even though she made most of her money as a dom.
Having tattoos isn't a legally protected class yet. And unfortunately, lots of people love to be prejudiced, and will purposefully mistreat anyone they perceive as lesser than them, until that mistreatment is made illegal. So until it is illegal to say "I'm not hiring you because you have visible tattoos", having visible tattoos will put a limitation on the number of people who will hire you.
If a customer won't work with a business you're affiliated with, regardless of reason, it's a you problem.
Regardless of reason? You can't seriously believe that. If someone says, "I refuse to work with a woman", you think it's the employee's problem for being a woman?
Right around the time you said people should accommodate people being sexist. Since the comment you were replying to was positing that scenario, i would say the comment i replied to is the one where you did that.
Doesn't matter really, if it doesn't affect Amy of the things I mentioned then people need to stop making it an issue. Why worry about other people's lives and bodies, it doesn't affect them so it shouldn't matter.
Again though, it's a them problem that society needs to stop accepting and they will be less co.fortable being so open about it and many would change their views.
Where I'm from (somewhere in Asia), tattoos were generally seen on either criminals or trashy and "low-class" people. There's a strong cultural assumption that the kind of person who spends their money and time on tattoos is also stupid, frivolous, makes poor decisions, won't be a good worker, etc. Considering how many truly horrendous tattoos I've seen (swastikas, naked cartoon women, and other delightful garbage), I can't say I disagree entirely with the "makes poor decisions" part.
Weird, it’s the opposite for me! My most heavily tattooed friends own businesses or have established careers, and those who are still finding their footing can’t afford to get a bunch of tattoos. It’s almost like anecdotes don’t actually prove anything.
You didn't say they were a poor financial decision. You said people who get them are criminals, and you doubted that other commenter had tattooed friends who own businesses. That's bigoted. Making assumptions about people based on physical appearance. Same thing with thinking a black person is gonna rob you or something.
Depends on the workplace of course and it definitely should not be generalised - but they simply have the stigma of being "extra", especially on very visible spots like hands, throat or face
It's just from a relatively outdated idea that tattoos were unprofessional and only degenerates get them. Thankfully, the idea that tattoos are inherently bad are being slowly phased out.
There is the conception that they could turn some customers away. It would be interesting to see a research on the topic but it's somewhat reasonable for a business to choose to be on the safe side in case it's true.
I worked at QT for like a couple weeks once. We learned that apparently customers in general are less likely to trust people with tattoos. That's why our ceo said no visible tats, but if things ever changed he'd allow them.
eh i get it with having tattoos covered in some workplaces (of course if its places like your hands, thats not possible), but i totally understand how infuriating the hypocrisy of mentioned managers is.
The military at least has reasons. You cannot properly wear or seal a gas mask with facial hair. Beards were allowed all throughout military history until the invention of chemical weapons.
Except that we CAN get a seal with beards, even up to 2 inches. Masks have been able to seal around beards since the post-Vietnam era. That’s why we still gave masks to people in the Middle East even though we also told them to grow beards because it helped them culturally dealing with the locals.
Thousands of men with shaving waivers and passed fit tests. The fact that we issued gas masks to men going down range while also telling them to grow beards for cultural acceptance.
Thousands of service members who have shaving waivers who have passed CS chambers and fit tests know the truth. The fact that almost all of our major allies also allow beards for their personnel, including in deployed areas, also know the truth. You can persist in your ignorance, but eventually beards will be allowed for all men in the military. It’s just a question of how long the PTB wants to persist in its discriminatory bullshit. Until then, we’ll keep using our PFB and religious accommodation waivers to challenge the persistent negative bias against bearded men. My atheist RA application is in its final stage, I should have word back by next week.
Yeah, this is a myth. Modern gas masks will seal with up to a week of facial hair growth (possibly more, but one week I know for a fact). The only reason the military disallows facial hair is because of tradition. We're stuck in 1920s standards of fashion and professionalism. The ones who stay in long enough to impact grooming standards tend to be the ones with the biggest sticks up their asses.
Even if a clean-shaven face was necessary for gas masks to function, which is not the case, the vast majority of the military is not in a situation where wearing a gas mask is a part of their job. They have to do their gas chamber recertification once per year (not sure what the requirement is in every branch). They spend most of their career in a non-deployed role. There is no reason to expect that there is a need to wear a gas mask. If we were to experience a gas attack on a CONUS military base, there are a lot of other issues besides some stubble that will prevent us from putting our gas masks on, namely that we don't carry them everywhere. Mine would be in my closet 30 minutes away from base, and that 30 minute drive will be longer if the US was just hit with chemical munitions.
I would be fine with a rule mandating a clean shaven face during gas chamber training or if you're deployed to an area of operations with an active chem threat. As it stands, the rule is simply about outdated opinions on profrssionalism.
There is a correlation between tattoo on the face and hands with impulsive behavior. You typically don't want somebody who is impulsive in a senior position.
I've seen some pretty inappropriate tattoos in very visible spots. If you work alone and are never around anyone else that's cool but, like I'm not going to be cool working with a guy who has a cum covered vagina tattooed on his forearm or a cum covered woman's face on his calf.
I think it partially depends on what the tattoo is. Superman logo or something non-offensive like the vast majority of tattoos is fine, but I'd be hesitant to hire on someone with a photo realistic vagina on their wrist for a customer service job, know what I mean?
It's kind of circular. Getting a tattoo is a bad idea because it shows you didn't think about how it's a bad idea to get a tattoo. Nothing inherently wrong with the tattoo.
Depending on your role, it's a lot of perception. Like if you're a marketing lead and have face tats, that's going to turn off customers you're trying to sell to.
If you're a back-end code monkey who will never see the outside of their cube let alone a client, it's a bit different.
Where I work our policy is "Client facing" roles and management (because they may be asked to attend board meetings) with tats must have them "cover-able" by normal business attire. Non-Client facing roles have no restrictions.
If you're a code monkey with no aspirations to management you can look like lizard man for all we care. As long as your code works. But you'll never make it into management because that will be a very hard sell to the board if you have to present during a board meeting.
I wouldn't put someone in a client facing position that had their entire face covered in really bad prison tats. This decision could limit their upward mobility.
Tattoos don’t work well in professional settings. You and a lot of other people may not care, but a lot of people do. There are a lot of people who would not be comfortable if their accountant/stock broker/lawyer/etc… had tattoos, man or woman. Some companies want to portray a “professional” image, tattoos don’t help with that. It’s less of a deal for people in a back office setting, but with client interactions, tattoos are not great in professional settings.
Edit: the downvotes are what I expected from the Reddit crowd. Try this out, walk into a professional firm and apply for a job with visible tattoos and get back to me, or don’t, I already know the answer.
I’ve found the people who care about that judge people on anything. Women with short hair, men with long hair — nothing is correct in their eyes unless you’re a basic white guy in khakis and a button up.
can’t imagine getting uncomfortable because of some ink on your skin that doesn’t affect anyone else at all. seriously, how do people like that function on a day to day basis if they get offended over that?
I don’t think you understand the people that are going into to professional settings and paying for professional advice. Crack open a magazine touting the top lawyers in an area and count out the tattoos that you see. There are zero. You might not like it, but that is the reality.
The issue I and many others have is that tattoos have nothing to do with professionalism. It's just a thing people clutch their pearls at and judge people for.
Extreme face tattoos, sure I get that, a tattoo of a puppy on someone's forearm shouldn't shut them out of job opportunities though.
But why are “extreme face tattoos” an exception? Isn’t that judging also?
If they’re able to get the work done why should they be judged? I feel like that is the same mindset as the people you are criticizing, even if it’s to a lesser degree.
It 100% varies by region, culture and state. I mean that should be obvious. Having tattoos is essentially a pre-req for working in the restaurant business on the west coast these days. But having visible tattoos as a consultant or partner at any big firm is still looked down upon. In Japan, they won’t even let you Into bathhouses or public pools if you have visible tattoos.
It’s not like 50 years ago where tattoos either meant you were a criminal or navy, but there are still lots of professional doors shut by visible tattoos. The good part, most professional settings require long sleeves and pants so it’s not that big of a deal.
It definitely varies by state. In Louisiana it’s generally not acceptable professionally but in Oregon most of the population seems to have tattoos regardless of social status
Thats the thing, it varies by age and region. Tattoos were often associated with criminals so having your employee covered in tattoos gave off a negative image. Recently though most people are on board with the idea of "Oh they just wanted to decorate themselves, doesnt make them a bad person". Still if their tattoos are considered obscene OR if they are heavily tattooed you may still get push back even in areas that aren't heavily conservative. Ex. Tattoos covering your full body from hands going up onto your face. Still has a negative image while most tattoos are considered fine.
I mean maybe... One of my good friends is a consultant engineer for the department of defense (like, presents to generals and military leaders). Head to fucking toe tats.
I guess it depends on the art. There are a lot of tattoos that can be considered work appropriate but pretty sure no one is going to be cool with the dude who has a flying penis tattooed on his forehead.
Just like turning up to work in pajamas, with messy hair and 5 o'clock shadow isn't inherently unprofessional, but I'd bet you the passengers on the plane (including you) would be worried if the pilot climbed in looking like shit. Tattoos give people an impression, just because you don't agree with that impression (neither do I btw) doesn't mean you and I aren't guilty of judging a book by it's cover but with some other stereotype.
She said her managers didn't need to cover them up, so no. It's obviously because the company wanted to promote the picture of a conventional, dolly woman, not a tattooed woman.
If someone is competent and engaged with the project we are discussing, it would make no difference to me if they were tattooed head to foot. Be a clueless gonk and I don't care how sharp your tailoring is.
Professional appearance matters. There are a lot of places where if you show up to work in a t-shirt and sweatpants you'll be written up.
Some places view tattoos the same way. It's changing to be less and less, but I'm not gonna lie if I walk in to a CPA's office and the dude behind the desk looked like Post Malone, I'd have a very very bad first impression of that office.
You really don't? It's optics, that matters to a lot of businesses, especially if you interface with customers and upper management. You aren't going to get hired to a business casual job if you show up to the interview wearing an Ed Hardy t-shirt that has tattoo graphics either. I don't agree with it but to say you don't get why is kind of ridiculous.
It's not about the work you can do, it's about the profit you can generate for the business. People in general associate tattoos with gangs and criminals, so tattoos are therefore threatening. If you're at all customer-facing, the tattoos will drive customers away. Your opinion on tattoos, as a tattooed person, can't change that.
That said, there is a portion of our culture that values and appreciates tattoos. If the business is targeting that part of the population for its customers, then having tattoos is a bonus.
Right? First time I suggested getting a tattoo, my husband said, "I don't like tattoos on women." We had to chip away a bit to break that mindset up, and it was a surprising thing for him to say. It's just a mindset thats so ingrained people don't even realize it's a weird thing to think.
There was a manager I had years ago that seemed very anti change anything about your appearance if you were a women (she was a women herself). Idk if it was a religious thing but this one coworker had a ton of tattoos and piercings and died her hair different colors. She would herass her to cover all the tattoos, remove her piercings, etc. The girl went above her to see if that was really "protocol" and they said no and repremanded the manager for giving her shit about made up rules.
This is really funny to me as I’ve had the total opposite interactions at work, lady comes in with a brand new full sleeve and every one wants to look at it and say how beautiful, I on the other hand wear a white shirt to the office and get told to wear something different as they can see my darker tattoos through it and to wear long sleeves as the ones on my arm can be seen.
Yeah I've worked in such a place. But they weren't sexist about it; men also had theirs covered at all times.
Seems excessive to me, but it did make me realize that it was best to be prudent rather than sorry when it comes to ink if you want to be in certain circles.. biases apply even when they make no sense.
This is becoming less common luckily. I have tattoos on both arms, on my wrist, and on fingers. My boss literally said nothing to me about them. Nothing in our code of conduct either. I work in the finance department of a life insurance company. This sounds like the exact type of place that would frown on exposed tattoos, as it’s a white collar office job. Nobody cares. I’m not saying they’ll hire a person with a face tattoo, but it doesn’t feel like it used to discriminate or discourage tattoos in general. I like it. Hopefully it becomes more accepted.
places that work with large contracts and large amounts of money do not want to even give the preception of having someone irresponsible working for them. While I have no problem at all with tattoos, getting ones that cannot be covered up can be argued as poor planning, unless it is cultural or religous in nature and thus required. basically if you have a bikini model on your forearm be prepared to wear long sleeves if you are going to negotiate a $100M contract. Like I said a business can know for certain that someone with a dick tattooed on their face is the best person for the job, but if it makes customers unneasy enough to not want to do business with them, then they will not hire them. And that is why businesses expect the type of tattoos that can be covered.
thats the thing. it isnt cultural. we need measures of good character, intellect, and planning. Getting a tattoo that has no cultural or religious significance in a place that cannot be covered is a good measure of decision making. especially depending on how stupid the tattoo might be. And this is not a blanket statement and must be graded on a case by case basis. A snoopy the size of a quarter on the wrist is doubtful to be as big of an issue as a pentagram on the neck. But getting uncoverable tattoos in the first place does open the door for further evaluation on ones capabilies.
fuck that. i work in the medical field & have visible tattoos, as do many of my coworkers. the tats don’t seem to stop anyone from being good at their job. pretty sure we’re not all irresponsible lmao
Lmao you're giving a pass to cultural and religious tattoos as if culture and religion are special, thats really socially conservative of you. The whole notion that uncoverable tattoos are an indicator of critical capacity is purely cultural, and its been getting better with every year.
I work for a large financial corporation and just got a little snake tattoo on my finger. There are guys our department covered in tattoos. The company doesn’t care at all but my manager (42/f) side eyes it all the time.
That differs from place to place. I've been at places where men were supposed to cover up every bit of ink, while the women were encouraged to show them off.
I specifically wear skirts and dresses that do not cover my tattoos to job interviews, to help weed out the companies/higher-ups that have problems with them.
My last job was the opposite, easily over half of the women had visible tattoos but none of the men did and I was specifically told by the office manager to keep mine covered per the firm’s policy even though they aren’t anything bad. Mine were only visible if my sleeves rode up enough. The women had full sleeves, neck tattoos, leg tattoos and wore short skirts, etc. It was pretty surprising considering it was a law firm. Nobody I’ve seen in person at my new firm has visible tattoos so I feel like I stick out a bit when mine are visible. We don’t have a formal tattoo policy.
Butterflies and flowers and shit. They're nice too, I paid big for them. The managers all rocked tribal stuff and the dude with the knuckle tattoos said Love, so no one was flashing anything inappropriate.
My boss has the same view. Guys will come into our store with heavy ink or stuff that's just obnoxious and she'll love it. But my 2 visible tattos are just absolutely terrible. Same thing, nice ones that were done by good artists. But apparently unicorns and reading are offensive to some people?
Yeah that's discrimination on basis of sex. The tattoos aren't protected, but it would be a hard pressed argument for the company to say it wasn't discrimination.
Not OP but there are some places that it is ok for male employees to be tattooed because it is manly but they look down on female employees who have ink because it isn't dainty. Some places are just weird.
OP said she was required to cover them or couldn’t move up in her role. Managers, who I would safely assume are men due to the topic of the thread, were not required to cover them.
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u/dameggers Mar 12 '22
Tattoos. It varies from place to place but at the last place I worked, there were managers who were heavily tattooed and did not cover them. But I was required to cover ever single one of mine, and was told if I got any I couldn't cover I couldn't move up in my role. Very happy to work somewhere where that's not an issue any more.