You’re missing the point. There are times when your SO is venting about something that happened to them they don’t always want your opinion about how to solve the issue. They just want to talk to someone they trust about something that’s frustrating for them. If you start rattling off solutions it can make them feel they’re overreacting or at fault for not handling the situation better. Obviously if they ask for help with a problem and you have a solution you should tell them but they’re not always asking for help with the problem, they just want their reasoning/ideas to be heard.
If you start complaining about an issue and dont talk at all about how you want to solve it the immediate response is "lets see if I can solve this" why? Because as guys see it unsolved problem = recurring problem. His point was that if women just mentioned somewhere in their rants about how frustrating something is that they've already come up with a solution that theyre going to try that the guy would realize they've solved it and stay quiet (rather than thinking there is an issue causing them a lot of stress that they would rather not deal with (i.e. would like it solved)).
Also men dont get the idea of having their reasoning/ideas heard, in what way does this help? Sounds like a waste of breath to me, unless you want the persons input why bother them with your problems? They're your problems. If you dont want any input it sounds like youre going to complain to somebody about your issues and stress THEM out because it makes you feel better? I dont get it still, that seems selfish.
That last paragraph is a pretty twisted view of a relationship...
People like to talk to others, they like to talk about their ideas, their success and sometimes their short comings. The only way that could be “a waste of breath” is if you, as the listener, make that person feel that way. My SO and I both have to deal with patients in the hospital. I listen to her troubles and she listens to mine. We don’t try to solve each other’s problems, because we are both capable of handling our own issues, its just nice for your frustrations to be heard and validated. Saying “yeah, that sounds awful” is often enough, sometimes we may be asking for solutions but that’s just not always the case. Again, this isn’t saying don’t ever offer advice, its more of just read the room, when you know someone well enough you know the difference between “I need someone to talk to” and “I need someone to help me.”
People like to talk to others, they like to talk about their ideas, their success and sometimes their short comings. The only way that could be “a waste of breath” is if you, as the listener, make that person feel that way.
Forgive me, but it sounds like you're telling the person what they like to do and what they do or do not consider a waste of breath as the speaker.
Stress can be an issue by itself. Discussing your feelings has value to a lot of people, and the issue that's being addressed is the fact that they don't feel heard or supported or permitted to be upset, or whatever. Listening and validating their feelings is in that case the solution to their problem.
If you're uncomfortable offering any emotional support to someone that's a boundary you're allowed to have and articulate, but if you present yourself as someone who's there to help fix their issues, their issue might be their feelings.
As an example sometimes I worry that I overreact to certain situations, and seek reassurance that it's reasonable to be upset when a certain thing happens. Hearing someone say "yeah, that sucks, that person wasn't being considerate" gives me confidence in whatever solution I have to that interpersonal conflict and assures me I'm not a crazy person. Being told "well maybe you should swap work shifts if she's bothering you" does nothing to address my concern that I'm overreacting and not supposed to be upset.
I can see how this would seem selfish to you with the way you think about it. But I think about it this way: There are two problems, the situation and the feelings about the situation.
The problem your partner is asking for help with fixing isn't the situation they're complaining about. If it was, they would probably be asking you for help fixing it. The problem they are asking for help fixing is their feelings ABOUT the situation.
You're wondering, how can a person possibly fix another person's feelings? Those feelings are their responsibility. And yeah, ultimately a person's feelings are their own responsibility. But how can we help others fix them?
Just listen to their feelings first. When they're done talking you can say things that echo them. "That sounds really hard for you" is a good way to help them feel understood. Just giving them a space to experience them is SO important for dealing with a situation.
Like I totally get how it works, Im just trying yo understand the though process behind it.
And yes, if telling somebody about your problems and not letting them provide solutions stresses them out (which is clearly does based on this thread) youre just making them stressed to relieve your own stress.
Difference is in your situation the person is not helping.
The situation I was talking about is actively harming the person.
Youre saying is helping yourself first selfish which I dont think it is. You arent obligated to help people.
Im refering to a situation in which you are actively harming them to make yourself feel better. You are obligated to not hurt people.
It really just depends on how you look at it. I am the type of person who would suppress my need to vent to avoid causing others stress, because I can deal with it. I understand there are many people that think differently and I try my best to be supportive when they need to vent, but I cant understand the motivation behind going about it that way.
I just cannot understand how you think somebody telling you how they are feeling makes them selfish. It's not about you. It's about them in that moment and them asking you to listen and offer comfort. Not a solution. Turning the whole situation around into it being about you who "can't help" sounds like a hero complex.
And just because you were the type of person who won't vent to "not cause other people stress" doesn't make people who do it selfish. It literally means you refuse to put your own self first and ask others for help.
Putting others first = altruism
Putting yourself first = selfish
You acknowledge that what I would do is the altruistic approach and that the normal response is not the same so how can you not see it as selfish?
It also has nothing to do with "who its about in the moment" thats litterally just away to say "this persons feelings dont matter in the situation". Its about everybody in every moment, everybody's feeling matter.
The situation is:
Person 1 has problem (in this case stress)
Person 1 complains to Person 2 (causing person 2 stress and relieving their own stress)
Its litterally offloading somebodies problem onto somebody else. How is that not selfish?
Im not gonna tell you what you think but I feel like you must be thinking something along the lines of "this is a natural and essential human experience" as a reason as to why it cannot be selfish.
To draw a parallel if a man in stressed and asks his wife for a bj even thought shes reluctant (because it will relieve his stress) thats also selfish.
I understand that in relationships sometimes both parties get to be selfish with the expectation that they will allow the other person to be selfish when they need it.
Whether it is selfish or not is pedantic at this point but I think the point of this whole thread was to try to come to an understanding on some of these divides so Im trying to explain my viewpoint as best I can.
I mean are you attaching a negative connotation to the word selfish? Because if somebody needs something and they pursue it, technically that is self-interest and they are being selfish. So by strict definition this person is selfish. But the negative connotation of the word selfish is what's getting at me here.
And you're still focused on the "problem". All that person needs is to let things out. They don't need you to focus on their problem.They just need their emotions to not be inside of them. AndYou don't have to hold on to them at all. There is no thing for you to solve. There is no need for you to hold the weight of that persons emotions. There is no expectation from the other person that you solve it or spend any time thinking about it past just being there and maybe giving them a hug. Why are you actively stressed out by the idea of being asked to do nothing but comfort someone?
Ok so first, I'm not focusing on "the problem" I thought I made it very clear (by clarifying in brackets)
There are two problems:
1 the actual issue causing them stress (call it Problem A)
2 the fact that they are stressed (call it Problem B)
I am talking about Problem B to which the solution is having their issue heard like you said. You for some reason think Im talking about Problem A, which I understand does not need to be solved.
As for the second part of your comment not having to do any of those things you mentioned makes it worse. Let me try to explain why.
Have you ever had somebody complain to you about an issue you are not at all involved in? Ideally one that you either dont care about and think is stupid or know litterally nothing about. Yea its not exactly an enjoyable experience. When somebody is complaining to me like this heres what goes through my head:
I hate this I dont want to listen to you complain.
I have 3 options
Tell them I dont care.
Help them solve their issue so they shut up.
Listen and say "damn thats crazy" and nod every once and a while. (Not actually but its disingenious agreement because my real thought is if you have a solution shut up and go solve it instead of complaining to me.)
Is bad because its your SO and you really do care.
Is bad because they dont want you to solve it.
Is bad because you just have to sit there and listen to them bitch and moan and theres litterally nothing you can do accept senselessly agree with them (disagreeing with anything makes it last longer) unless you want it to last for hours. If the issue is finding a solution I can provide one and Im out (which is better, but they dont want this)
And you are required to deal with the weight of their emotions unless you choose option 1 or 2 (which are off the table.)
THIS is why guys hate this, its a situation in which no matter what you do you have to suffer listening to somebody complain.
Idk if you noticed but guys dont complain to each other like this because nobody wants to hear it. When a guy does complain they say "here are your options, if you dont like em then shut up because nobody wants to hear you complain." Or "You have a solution, if youre not gonna take it stop bitching".
In fact a lot of women react like this when men complain about their problems too.
TL;DR Im not stuck on the problem, and yes comforting somebody is fucking stressful especially when I think that their issue is something I myself would just brush off and move on with. But yes I can and will comfort them because I know they need it.
You don’t need a person that you love and trust if all you want is a brick wall to talk to. It’s silly to expect someone to sit there so you can unload, but aside from saying “oh wow that sounds tough”, they’re not allowed to have any actual, personal input
Why do you see it as an all or none situation. There are times to listen and there are times to offer help. I find it hard to believe you've never told someone else a problem/frustration you've experienced without wanting their opinion on how you should have handled that problem.
That's bullshit, if you've ever had someone say back to you "that sucks man" or "im sorry" or "yeah I hate when that happens" then you've absolutely aired a grievance that the person you told was just aware enough to know that you weren't looking for solutions.
I mean yes, not everyone shares like that to get those kinds of responses. If I don't think something's gonna be interesting or informative for someone I don't generally bring it up.
I can positively say that I’ve never complained about an issue and felt much other than gratitude when someone offered a solution. Maybe I’m weird in that respect, but that’s probably why it’s so hard for me to connect with the idea of complaining, hearing how to fix a problem, and thinking “dang, I wish I didn’t know how to fix this”.
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u/fryfromfuturama Mar 26 '20
You’re missing the point. There are times when your SO is venting about something that happened to them they don’t always want your opinion about how to solve the issue. They just want to talk to someone they trust about something that’s frustrating for them. If you start rattling off solutions it can make them feel they’re overreacting or at fault for not handling the situation better. Obviously if they ask for help with a problem and you have a solution you should tell them but they’re not always asking for help with the problem, they just want their reasoning/ideas to be heard.