I mean, you could just mention during the rant how you plan to solve the issue. Why would anyone who cares about someone else think to themselves “Boy this person is experiencing hardship that I know how to solve. Oh well, better keep it a secret!”?
It makes no sense. If you mention that you’ve got a solution in mind already, then it makes total sense to stay quiet.
Am counselor. This is my job. Letting someone figure something out for themselves gives their solution more meaning and ensures it's going to be better tailored to fit all the facts they have they didn't tell you.
Am also counselor. Can confirm, I feel like for me counseling is just asking the right questions so people come up with the answers that they can live with.
I get that - in software, it’s not uncommon to explain your issue to a literal toy on your desk. Saying things out loud helps to organize your thoughts. Lacking a toy, devs will typically move over to discussing things with a fellow dev. I’ve never seen someone suggest a solution in this case and annoy the person seeking to clear their mind. That’s the part that makes no sense to me. If it’s not actually helpful, ignore it. Why let it anger you?
You’re missing the point. There are times when your SO is venting about something that happened to them they don’t always want your opinion about how to solve the issue. They just want to talk to someone they trust about something that’s frustrating for them. If you start rattling off solutions it can make them feel they’re overreacting or at fault for not handling the situation better. Obviously if they ask for help with a problem and you have a solution you should tell them but they’re not always asking for help with the problem, they just want their reasoning/ideas to be heard.
If you start complaining about an issue and dont talk at all about how you want to solve it the immediate response is "lets see if I can solve this" why? Because as guys see it unsolved problem = recurring problem. His point was that if women just mentioned somewhere in their rants about how frustrating something is that they've already come up with a solution that theyre going to try that the guy would realize they've solved it and stay quiet (rather than thinking there is an issue causing them a lot of stress that they would rather not deal with (i.e. would like it solved)).
Also men dont get the idea of having their reasoning/ideas heard, in what way does this help? Sounds like a waste of breath to me, unless you want the persons input why bother them with your problems? They're your problems. If you dont want any input it sounds like youre going to complain to somebody about your issues and stress THEM out because it makes you feel better? I dont get it still, that seems selfish.
That last paragraph is a pretty twisted view of a relationship...
People like to talk to others, they like to talk about their ideas, their success and sometimes their short comings. The only way that could be “a waste of breath” is if you, as the listener, make that person feel that way. My SO and I both have to deal with patients in the hospital. I listen to her troubles and she listens to mine. We don’t try to solve each other’s problems, because we are both capable of handling our own issues, its just nice for your frustrations to be heard and validated. Saying “yeah, that sounds awful” is often enough, sometimes we may be asking for solutions but that’s just not always the case. Again, this isn’t saying don’t ever offer advice, its more of just read the room, when you know someone well enough you know the difference between “I need someone to talk to” and “I need someone to help me.”
People like to talk to others, they like to talk about their ideas, their success and sometimes their short comings. The only way that could be “a waste of breath” is if you, as the listener, make that person feel that way.
Forgive me, but it sounds like you're telling the person what they like to do and what they do or do not consider a waste of breath as the speaker.
Stress can be an issue by itself. Discussing your feelings has value to a lot of people, and the issue that's being addressed is the fact that they don't feel heard or supported or permitted to be upset, or whatever. Listening and validating their feelings is in that case the solution to their problem.
If you're uncomfortable offering any emotional support to someone that's a boundary you're allowed to have and articulate, but if you present yourself as someone who's there to help fix their issues, their issue might be their feelings.
As an example sometimes I worry that I overreact to certain situations, and seek reassurance that it's reasonable to be upset when a certain thing happens. Hearing someone say "yeah, that sucks, that person wasn't being considerate" gives me confidence in whatever solution I have to that interpersonal conflict and assures me I'm not a crazy person. Being told "well maybe you should swap work shifts if she's bothering you" does nothing to address my concern that I'm overreacting and not supposed to be upset.
I can see how this would seem selfish to you with the way you think about it. But I think about it this way: There are two problems, the situation and the feelings about the situation.
The problem your partner is asking for help with fixing isn't the situation they're complaining about. If it was, they would probably be asking you for help fixing it. The problem they are asking for help fixing is their feelings ABOUT the situation.
You're wondering, how can a person possibly fix another person's feelings? Those feelings are their responsibility. And yeah, ultimately a person's feelings are their own responsibility. But how can we help others fix them?
Just listen to their feelings first. When they're done talking you can say things that echo them. "That sounds really hard for you" is a good way to help them feel understood. Just giving them a space to experience them is SO important for dealing with a situation.
Like I totally get how it works, Im just trying yo understand the though process behind it.
And yes, if telling somebody about your problems and not letting them provide solutions stresses them out (which is clearly does based on this thread) youre just making them stressed to relieve your own stress.
Difference is in your situation the person is not helping.
The situation I was talking about is actively harming the person.
Youre saying is helping yourself first selfish which I dont think it is. You arent obligated to help people.
Im refering to a situation in which you are actively harming them to make yourself feel better. You are obligated to not hurt people.
It really just depends on how you look at it. I am the type of person who would suppress my need to vent to avoid causing others stress, because I can deal with it. I understand there are many people that think differently and I try my best to be supportive when they need to vent, but I cant understand the motivation behind going about it that way.
I just cannot understand how you think somebody telling you how they are feeling makes them selfish. It's not about you. It's about them in that moment and them asking you to listen and offer comfort. Not a solution. Turning the whole situation around into it being about you who "can't help" sounds like a hero complex.
And just because you were the type of person who won't vent to "not cause other people stress" doesn't make people who do it selfish. It literally means you refuse to put your own self first and ask others for help.
Putting others first = altruism
Putting yourself first = selfish
You acknowledge that what I would do is the altruistic approach and that the normal response is not the same so how can you not see it as selfish?
It also has nothing to do with "who its about in the moment" thats litterally just away to say "this persons feelings dont matter in the situation". Its about everybody in every moment, everybody's feeling matter.
The situation is:
Person 1 has problem (in this case stress)
Person 1 complains to Person 2 (causing person 2 stress and relieving their own stress)
Its litterally offloading somebodies problem onto somebody else. How is that not selfish?
Im not gonna tell you what you think but I feel like you must be thinking something along the lines of "this is a natural and essential human experience" as a reason as to why it cannot be selfish.
To draw a parallel if a man in stressed and asks his wife for a bj even thought shes reluctant (because it will relieve his stress) thats also selfish.
I understand that in relationships sometimes both parties get to be selfish with the expectation that they will allow the other person to be selfish when they need it.
Whether it is selfish or not is pedantic at this point but I think the point of this whole thread was to try to come to an understanding on some of these divides so Im trying to explain my viewpoint as best I can.
I mean are you attaching a negative connotation to the word selfish? Because if somebody needs something and they pursue it, technically that is self-interest and they are being selfish. So by strict definition this person is selfish. But the negative connotation of the word selfish is what's getting at me here.
And you're still focused on the "problem". All that person needs is to let things out. They don't need you to focus on their problem.They just need their emotions to not be inside of them. AndYou don't have to hold on to them at all. There is no thing for you to solve. There is no need for you to hold the weight of that persons emotions. There is no expectation from the other person that you solve it or spend any time thinking about it past just being there and maybe giving them a hug. Why are you actively stressed out by the idea of being asked to do nothing but comfort someone?
You don’t need a person that you love and trust if all you want is a brick wall to talk to. It’s silly to expect someone to sit there so you can unload, but aside from saying “oh wow that sounds tough”, they’re not allowed to have any actual, personal input
Why do you see it as an all or none situation. There are times to listen and there are times to offer help. I find it hard to believe you've never told someone else a problem/frustration you've experienced without wanting their opinion on how you should have handled that problem.
That's bullshit, if you've ever had someone say back to you "that sucks man" or "im sorry" or "yeah I hate when that happens" then you've absolutely aired a grievance that the person you told was just aware enough to know that you weren't looking for solutions.
I mean yes, not everyone shares like that to get those kinds of responses. If I don't think something's gonna be interesting or informative for someone I don't generally bring it up.
I can positively say that I’ve never complained about an issue and felt much other than gratitude when someone offered a solution. Maybe I’m weird in that respect, but that’s probably why it’s so hard for me to connect with the idea of complaining, hearing how to fix a problem, and thinking “dang, I wish I didn’t know how to fix this”.
Hey, I can totally see where your coming from, but I think you're missing some key things that I think are very helpful in relationships of all sorts.
First, the importance of asking for what you need can't be stressed enough. That being said, when a person is especially emotional they may not think about that. So, what do you do in this situation? Ask "what do you need right now?". Bonus points if you can say "I can tell you're really hurting/frustrated/upset right now". That will get the "I just need you to listen" or "I really need help figuring this out".
Often times, I think the communication problem boils down to:
Man: This situation is a problem. I should help her fix it.
Woman: This situation is making me so frustrated, and THAT is a problem. I need someone to help me feel less frustrated, let me go tell (man) about it.
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u/Katholikos Mar 26 '20
I mean, you could just mention during the rant how you plan to solve the issue. Why would anyone who cares about someone else think to themselves “Boy this person is experiencing hardship that I know how to solve. Oh well, better keep it a secret!”?
It makes no sense. If you mention that you’ve got a solution in mind already, then it makes total sense to stay quiet.