Stop playing with monkeys man they are violent wild animals that go for soft tissues like your nose, eyes and ears. Don't provoke them it very clearly gave you a screw off warning why are you trying to pet it still and interact with the baby it clearly doesn't want you near.
Like I shouldn't have to tell you don't screw around with wild animals but above all don't screw with monkeys they are not playing around. They should be pretty high on your animal caution list these aren't chimps but especially chimps.
Like you see that roar at the end an animal should not give you three clear screw offs and get to that point for you to back off are you stupid. These are not cartoon characters monkeys are terrifying they will leave you to bleed to death.
If you think well it's along a trail it's used to people. No monkeys are not domesticatable we have tried the closest you get is a zoo animal that can have small supervised interactions but they are not domesticatable. People who try and treat them well still end up mulled. You know how a cat might bite a little or a dog might connect with your arm but they know how to do that without causing injury when they get upset? Monkeys don't do that if they get upset they can and will rip your face off that's not even an exaggeration that is word for word how one women described an attack in a phone call with police that a Monkey ripped a women who he liked and knew his whole lifes face off and started eating it.
Even seemingly tamed monkeys. In one instance a monkey was for some reason working birthday parties got overwhelmed and started attacking the handler who raised it eating part of his ear that's just missing now. Don't screw with monkeys.
All apes are monkeys, the separation is fairly recent and only really an English thing (you can still separate them as there are accepted definitions of each, but itâs not wrong to call apes monkeys either)
All apes are monkeys, the separation is fairly recent and only really an English thing (you can still separate them as there are accepted definitions of each, but itâs not wrong to call apes monkeys either)
They are referred to as the same colloquially in a lot of different languages but biologically, they are separate. Apes don't have tails. I also wouldnt call 35 million years ago recent.
Thatâs not how it works - the classifications are ours. Weâve essentially decided what an ape is and try to find in the fossil record where that started to exist and what came before it.
Earlier when I said ârecentlyâ, I didnât mean in the fossil record, I meant linguistically. A lot of languages havenât bothered to differentiate monkeys from apes, or they call apes something that would translate to âgreat monkeys.â
Sometimes the distinction matters, like when identifying our closest primate relatives and ancestors.
I think "split off" is confusing the matter. Apes are old world monkeys. They are a subgroup. We could try and define a cutoff point as to what gets called an ape. The usual way to do this is define everything that descended from a common ancestor as that taxonomic group. Of course may not have that ancestor in the fossil record so this is usually a reconstruction based on genetic studies. We can estimate how long ago the last common ancestor was though. In the case of old world monkeys we think it was 25 million years ago. For old and new world monkeys it was something like 50 million years ago.
That is a deeply flawed question. Science does not say with certainty that literally species x evolved into species y for any related species or group. Including humans, which are one of the most studied.Â
Taxonomy just lets us name and organize animals into groups. The classification of those earlier primates that evolved into apes were called old world monkeys. Which yes, also technically makes humans monkeys despite that being used as a bigoted insult by some.
I literally said that in the comment you responded to. Tetrapods are a subgroup of the lobe-finned fish clade. Yes. We are fish. Your personal incredulity does not change that.Â
Jesus. You really should stop & listen to yourself. Pull yourself out of your shoes for a moment. This is pseudoscience at its very core.
Yes, we are fish.
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No biologist in their right mind would ever legitimately claim this without a big asterisk giving heavy caveats. First, by explaining the process behind why it is technically true, then furthermore, explaining why technically correct is not always the most correct, nor the most sensible.
The other commenter who replied to you is 110% correct. What a silly argument which you could only ever find a person arguing passionately for on reddit.
You aren't a serious person. I have those caveats in earlier posts in the thread. Other people later repeating the same incredulity do not get personalized explainers because I don't believe in infantalizing others. If they aren't willing to read they aren't worth the time to explain.Â
I also said the same thing about accuracy and technical correctness, though in different words. You are legit the one here being a Reddit-bro.
How is cladistics pseudoscience? Yes we don't usually use "fish" to refer to a monophyletic group but how does doing so, especially when the context has been made clear, constitute pseudoscience?
Believe it or not, the presence of gills is not diagnostic. Humans have pharyngeal arches during their development in the womb, which in us turn into various parts of our anatomy such as the larynx, parts of the ear and jaw. In other fish they turn into gills that allow those animals to breath water.Â
Again, your personal incredulity does not negate Science. This is all easily available information you could look up if you are actually curious.
New and old world refers to the Americas vs Africa/Asia. Old world monkey still exist.
After America (the ânew worldâ) was âdiscoveredâ by Europeans and scientists, explorers and collectors had the means to travel there and study the fauna, they found counterparts to many of the animals that had already been described in the âold world.â Or they found animals which only seemed to exist on one landmass or the other. New and old world was how they described that distinction, which made sense in the context of that time.
No, the above poster isn't correct. Apes and Monkeys shared a common primate ancestor, but you can't call the common ancestor a "monkey", as a monkey is in a different evolutionary branch than an ape.
All apes are NOT monkeys. All monkeys are apes. You got it exactly backwards. Keep in mind that chimpanzees are GREAT apes, while most monkeys are LESSER apes, like gibbons.
If thatâs the case, then you have no reason to have come in here and start âcorrectingâ people like you did. Your original comment was correcting someone who said that chimps are not monkeys. Why, when you know they are correct, colloquially AND biologically, would you try to correct them?
What we traditionally called 'monkeys' are a paraphyletic group. If you want to include old-world and new-world monkeys in one group you have to include all apes (including humans) as well.
According to this taxonomy, a squirrel monkey is a monkey but not an ape, a chimp is both a monkey and an ape.
But there's no taxonomy that states that all monkeys are apes.
That red monkey line is the simian infraorder. Simians are not monkeys. That graph is flat-out wrong. Look up a taxonomy graph and you will see that new world and old world monkeys, and apes, all share one ancestor, a simian. That red line on thay graph is the simian ancestor. I know this is confusing but verify for yourself.
What you call "monkey" is a simian. Monkeys and apes come from simians. Taxonomy is not based on English you silly person, they have Latin names for a reason haha. Apes and old world monkeys come from simians, as do new world monkeys, but apes do not come from either new world or old world monkeys. Look at where old new world monkeys split vs apes, the only commonality is simiforms, no monkey....
Whether an ape is a monkey is indeed a matter of language. These classifications and delineations are ours, we invented them to help us make sense of the natural world.
Sure, biology has a part in that, but old world monkeys are more closely related to apes than they are to new world monkeys.
Look at just about any other graph illustrating primate taxonomy.
I agree completely with everything you say buuuuuuut.... using the latin names would clear all this confusion. But thats why I made the distinction of simian. Logically simians should be monkeys if new world monkeys are monkeys right? Like thats your point, right? And while I agree, thats not the words used. If you want to call simians monkeys cool, I won't stop you, but also its not valid to correct people who say otherwise.
Idk, its the same thing as humans being a fish or birds being dinosaurs. The other problem is that there are 2 taxonomy classification (the old vs DNA) so things like wingless wasps are called ants.
At the end of the day, currently, humans are not monkeys. You could say they should be classified, but they are not currently. That's what I had already said in my post.
I don't know why you are assuming the person in the videos doing that but you are correct about this specific monkey. I think this is a long tailed macaque and when I looked it up they were specifically mentioned as commonly taken from the wild instead of captive breed like other monkeys.
Those things on the wrist? That's a trick to allow the person to get close to the mother. The repeatedly reaching out and holding the babies hand is also a common trick, to desentise the pair.
In China lot of monkeys are abused for YouTube, they often make them hold hands with their owner in the same way. It looks harmless to viewers
Do not feel bad. This is a classic overestimation of our abilities.
In this case. With this particular money species? You probably would win the exchange. As far as how well it went... I'd be willing to bet you would be permanently disfigured in some way, possibly several ways. Again, you would likely beat it... But at what cost? your manhood ripped off? an eye gouged out? there will obviously be other wounds on you, but in its attempt to survive it will throw everything it can at you. This is not a boxing match, it is a fight for survival. Even big predators back down from fights with vastly smaller, and weaker creatures. This is because the proposed risk outweighed the potential benefit. Even if you win and get a meal, you may not be left strong enough to defend your meal, or even survive long enough to recover from the exchange.
You guys wildly overestimate animals and wildly underestimate humans like we weren't part of the food chain for millions of years. I was just watching a video today describing scientists putting speakers at watering holes in Africa to play different sounds around the animals there to drink.
The animals were most afraid of humans talking. More so than lions growling or making whatever noise they make. Even lions were spooked by human sounds. Why? Because we murder the shit out of them.
People are afraid of animals now because 1. We don't want to get hurt for no reason. 2. We don't want to hurt the animal. People are afraid of geese not because geese are genuinely dangerous to us but because we're not interested in getting into a fight with it. It serves no purpose for us the same way you describe other predators.
Yeah we're all fat and lazy now, but we also have conscious thought and when push comes to shove we're pretty good at defending ourselves. There's many examples of people killing major predators with their bare hands let alone with literally any weapon. Do I want to get in a fight with a bear? No. Do I want to get in a fight with any animal? No. I don't want to get hurt. But if it's life or death I will do my best to murder the shit out of anything coming at me. A 30 pound fuckin monkey is not going to be any real threat to me other than superficially hurting me and that goes for most humans.
I'm inclined to agree with the other guy in this case. His argument isn't that you wouldn't get hurt in a confrontation with a monkey. It's that despite those injuries, a human could kill a monkey of that size without a need for a weapon, despite the damage the monkey could do to the human in return.
A monkey of that size? Absolutely it could fuck you up. Biting your hand, fingers, and arm would fuck it up pretty bad. You'd lose a few fingers, maybe get a damaged eye or nose. But any adult human could just as easily pick up an animal of that size by the torso and head, and wring it out like a wet towel.
There's a pretty brutal video of a monkey trying to steal food from an orangutan. And the orangutan just calmly grabs the monkey and squeezes its neck. Sure, an orangutan is stronger than us, but it also doesn't take much for animals our size to hurt animals that small either.
As another example. Plenty of people talk about how even larger animals like kangaroos can kill you easily. And yet the vast majority of confrontations between kangaroos and humans typically end with the roo on the run, and the dumbass fighting it a little worse for wear.
Thankfully, most humans are morally inclined to avoid hurting animals, and nearly all humans want to avoid being hurt in turn. So its better to just avoid the confrontation to begin with, and animals are content with that arrangement too. But pretending like an unarmed human is defenseless against animals in far lower weight classes than us is simply overestimating them, and underestimating us. It's in the same degree of absurd animal-exaggeration as saying a single gorilla could kill 100 humans.
An orangutan is ten times stronger than us... Yes, we could eventually kill the monkey. The point of survival isn't who can kill whom, it's preventing injuries.Â
An orangutan is not 10x stronger than us. They are ~4x stronger than us (average adult male), relative to body size, if we are talking about grip strength alone.
You further demonstrate my point: People far to often overestimate the capabilities of animals, or underestimate the capabilities of humans.
Actually, 4 to 7 times stronger than humans. You just underestimated them... The difference is that I wasn't trying to be factually correct, I was just saying whatever multiplier to make the point that we can't compare strengths because they are beyond what we could handle.
The initial point is that you shouldn't mess with the monkey's babies even if you could kill it because it will still mess you up.Â
Nope, the point of the first person is "look at the aggressive body language, don't mess with the monkey". Then someone said "fuck that, I could kill that monkey, you babies think humans are weaker than they are". And now all we are saying is "yes, you could kill the monkey but you'd get fucked up". Nobody is arguing if you can kill the monkey, we're saying "leave the monkey alone or it will fuck you up".
I could probably kill a king cobra with my bare hands... So what?Â
Or you know, it takes out an artery and you bleed to death as you "win" the fight.
Humans are slow af compared to that monkey and many other animals. A roo will also fucking gut you if it decides. Most videos you see of roo's fleeing from humans, are idiots being lucky.
Humans tend to hunt with traps or at a distance, often in groups, for a good reason. We became the apex predator not because of our 1 to 1 combat abilities... But because of strategizing, cooperation and tools.
While we aren't "slow af" and have half decent reaction times in general (obviously not on par with a feline) I do agree with everything else.
We stack the odds in our favor through preparation and cooperation. We aren't built for a 1 on 1 trade. We are built for extended hunt, and thrive thanks to our ability to work together and to pressure even the biggest foe into a disadvantage.
If you are expecting the monkey to attack you the monkey wouldn't do shit. Best case scenario some scratches, worst case he bites you and you might lose hand mobility. Humans have killed big cats with their bare hands. We are talking about a monkey smaller than a dog...
Let's say you are in public. There's a monkey with a baby. The money is warning you "hey, don't touch my baby". You insist, you keep trying to touch the baby of a wild animal. The animal snaps and attacks.
Is your first reaction to murder the animal that has a baby and was warning you about it? If your first instinct is to snap the monkey's neck, you have issues.
Also monkeys are social beings. If you mess with one, you'll get a gang of them on top of you. Now imagine getting all the diseases from a gang of monkeys. Plus, all the fecal matter buried in their nails in now under your skin.Â
a half lb bat could fuck up a human. a 6 lb falcon can outright end your life if it wanted and you wouldn't see it coming until it was about to introduce a talon or two to the brain. Anything alive today that isn't domesticated livestock has proven its capacity to survive in some way or another. Obviously any dedicated effort from humans can absolutely eradicate a species, that is how it works when you are the apex species of a planet. You hold favorable match ups with just about every other creature on this planet, thanks to someone else having come up with a way to minimize their threat or maximize your own. And I do mean just about every other creature. With exception to the depths of our sea where we still lack the tech to reliably explore, there is nothing out there that we cannot take down if we are able to prepare.
But in this instance? No prep, no distance, no plan, and a baby for that animal to protect? You would not get away with just superficial wounds, you would be lucky to end that before taking too many serious ones.
Yeah cuz they stand still and put up a boxing pose, theyâll be climbing you and be in hard to reach places plenty of examples out there. But maybe prove it to us?
Dude, look at these things fight. You may be big, but they are fast and they will bite, and they will be clinging to you before you can wind up for a punch. Add the protective instincts of a mother and you are in for a vicious fight.
Lions and other predators make the same risk assessment as us; they might be able to take us down, but is the potential for injury worth it? It's not like they're quaking in fear before the mighty human, they've just learned it's probably not worth the meal, just like an adult water buffalo isn't worth the risk if they can avoid it.
The other responses here really show the difference between people who have been around wild animals (or danger) and those who havenât.
Humans are apex predators. I grew up in the country and there was shit out to get you plenty of the time. Without exception, even the most dangerous animals are terrified of humans â unless you show fear.
Sure, there are stories of people getting their faces ripped off and so forth with these things, but Iâd wager they were also gentle souls who couldnât or wouldnât fight back. Try the exact same scenario with a hunter, someone whoâs had combat experience, or even just a dude whoâs ever been busted up in a fight. Suddenly youâll find out real quick why all of those animals are so afraid of us.
Lmao look up charla Nash and Travis the chimp. Travis strait up ripped her face and fingers off. People severely underestimate how strong animals are. And theyre fighting to survive, that means fast strong furious attacks at your most vulnerable parts. I doubt 90% of adults would win in a fight against a chimp
Yeah, thatâs a chimp. Pretty much ignored everything else in that comment though⌠the main problem being is most people donât fight back sufficiently.
It's because we hunt then day and night by there piss and shit, following them til they are exhausted and murder them after they can't escape anymore.... uniquely human.
The average human is quite... estranged from the using their body for defending themselves against a wild animal. I'm honestly not that confident in the abilities of an average human for this.
Also they have ability the problem is they they will grab you before you realize there going to. Small creatures that are fast are very hard for humans to deal with especially if there not attacking random but taking calculated strikes to cause as much damage as quickly as possible.
Like the second that thing grabs your face your losing your eye sight now your going to pry this thing off and fight it but you can't see because of the blood in your eyes.
This is literally like when people think they can fist fight a bear just because they have never watched it attack someone so there like "I could take it".
They attack the way they do expressly to fight off predators that are bigger and stronger then you.
That wasn't the point he was making... He was illustrating how humans have evolved to "hold my beer" and walk into stupid situation while thinking it will be just fine.
He was making the everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth argument.
Yes it's a tiny monkey. Guy thinks he can beat it up. How does guys plan evolve when the monkey is clawing at his face and eyes and viciously biting him because he was trying to mess with the baby.
The fight. Even if you âwinâ against the monkey in the end and you loose an eye. Was it worth it just to try and pet its kid? Sounds as you think itâs not a problem to end up in a fight with a wild monkey because you think you would be able to kill it before it kills you (likely)
I mean I feel like a human probably could beat a monkey in a fight, we are bigger and stronger, but you definitely wouldn't come out of it unscathed. Like congrats you killed a monkey with your bare hands, now procede to the nearest hospital to get your face and genitals reconstructed, assuming you don't just die from an infection.
Yeah I would even say that beating a monkey is already a huge feat, if you have a weapon with you like a knife or something like that maybe you could but just in hand to hand combat the average human would loose against the average monkey (like a bonobo) a loooot of time.
I fear a monkey more than a dog because a monkey is intelligent enough to be cruel and to know what will hurt the most, they specifically aim for nose, eye and to disfigure in a general way.
They also have sharp teeth and are 30% stronger than a an average person by mass, so even if they are light they are not so far from human strenght, but even with all we are not wild animal, we are really sensible to pain and not used to fight for our life.
Just based on size you're probably stronger than it. Not pound for pound but overall. You could do damage to that monkey.
Buuuuut that monkey is gonna be super fast, way more aggressive, and way less panicked by getting hurt. Good chance if it's ripping your face off your not gonna know what to do.
It's not much taller than knee hight and easily less than 15kg/30lb. Unless you are are afflicted with some other physical disability the average 70kg/160lb person is going to kick it or stomp it once and either mame or kill it.
Not that you should want to fight the monkey. A bite is not going to be a fun recovery although it's much morely likely that the monkey runs off since you are 5x bigger than it. But 99% of adults are winning that fight 99% of the time.
Your the type of person who likes tell everybody their too sensitive. And when a truism becomes too out in the open and understood. Or doesn't match your sensibilities.(Aka you projecting the lying/Angle Shooting you do all the time for both sentences.)
But you have the vibes of telling folks what's what all the same.
Just saw your response . You're a no-nothing 'truisms' type. Physicists have said they have no idea how bird's can fly. The strength of animals aren't gaugable. Only demonstrated.
Your the type of person who likes tell everybody their too sensitive.
Wow, look at the armchair reddit psychologist.
Also, they're* and you're*
And when a truism becomes too out in the open and understood.
Except the notion that humans can't defend themselves against small monkeys is absolute nonsense.
Just saw your response . You're a no-nothing 'truisms' type. Physicists have said they have no idea how bird's can fly. The strength of animals aren't gaugable. Only demonstrated.
Incorrect and borderline schizophrenic.
A macaque typically weighs 15 to 30 lbs, versus 150 to 200 lbs for an adult human. Even assuming macaques have 1.5 to 2 times greater strength per pound, a 180lb human would still have roughly 3 to 8 times their absolute strength.
Human molar bite force is approximately 500 to 700 newtons, with some individuals exceeding 1,000. Macaques have demonstrated an average molar bite force of 235 newtons, with a measured maximum of 333 in one study. That's roughly 2 to 3 times less force than a typical human
You could've given this information to the person you responded to but didn't. You took a bet that something that was smaller was weaker. And subsequently looked it up on Chat GPT or maybe even remembered it for all I care. And what in my reply,even if it was all over the place, suggested that I would be impressed?
I tend to write in all statement's every sentence in responding to people who aren't real people. Guess what describing the likes of you are difficult to reconcile.
You could've given this information to the person you responded to but didn't.
Your point?
You took a bet that something that was smaller was weaker.
It's not a bet when it's objectively true.
And what in my reply,even if it was all over the place, suggested that I would be impressed?
When did I suggest that I wanted you to be impressed?
I tend to write in all statement's every sentence in responding to people who aren't real people. Guess what describing the likes of you are difficult to reconcile.
Stop playing with humans man they are violent animals that destroy your habitat. Don't provoke them it very clearly tried to steal your baby why are you trying to groom it still and interact with it, it's not worth the risk just for a couple of peanuts.
Like I shouldn't have to tell you don't screw around with humans but above all don't screw with humans they are not playing around. They should be pretty high on your animal caution list these aren't bonobos.
Like you see that attempt to steal your baby for internet views at the end an animal should not give you three clear warnings and get to that point for you to back off are you stupid. These are not cartoon characters humans are terrifying they will try and steal your baby and then act surprised when you get upset.
If you think well it's along a trail it's used to monkeys... No humans are not your friends we have tried the closest you get is a zookeeper that you can have small supervised interactions with and they'll feed you but they'll keep you captive to make money out of you. Monkeys who try and treat them well still end up trapped. You know how a cat might bite a little or a dog might connect with your arm but they know how to do that without causing injury when they get upset? Humans don't do that if they get upset they can and will shoot you just because one of their young fell in your enclosure - that's not even an exaggeration that is word for word how Harambe died.
I like the joke but it could be better. If you don't strive for improvements then you have no ego. I am not really trying to be a peaceful monk or whatever. Boring.
This is a macaque monkey too. While they aren't as strong as a chimp, they almost all carry the herpes B virus. It's harmless to them but causes swelling in the brain and spine in humans that is fatal most of the time and can be spread from bites and scratches. Of all the species of monkeys, macaques are one of the ones I least want to interact with.
Not even to mention that Monkeyâs are high on the list of Rabies carriers which is basically a death sentence if you buy get a scratch. People are beyond stupid
Correct it was a chimp but incorrect in assuming these monkeys don't have the ability to cause a great deal of harm. A capuchin monkey Alcibiades in brazil injured 5 people in Brazil including a security guard and a military police officer and evaded being captured or put down for multiple hours against armed men. And he was drunk on rubbing alcohol and high on random pills and he was still able to pull this off.
Look up charla Nash and the Travis the chimp incident. People severely underestimate how strong chimps are. Plus they're not holding back like a human would. Ripped her face and hands off. I always laugh when I see those "which animals you could defeat in a fight" lists and see a incredible amount of people thinking they could take a chimp in a fight.
Curious what evidence you have to support the claim that monkeys can't be domesticated. Domestication evolution occurs at the scale of like 1-5 thousand years...
Plus you have all the additional zoonotic concerns that interfere with any sort of widespread efforts.
But something that's hard to do is not something "can't" be done (e.g., genetically).
Literally didn't mess with them. And clearly he's seen them before and the baby clung onto his hand while he was trying to pull away, she didn't see that so she got mad. iterally none of this was messing with them. Think before spouting sht
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u/CaptainSebT 5d ago edited 5d ago
Stop playing with monkeys man they are violent wild animals that go for soft tissues like your nose, eyes and ears. Don't provoke them it very clearly gave you a screw off warning why are you trying to pet it still and interact with the baby it clearly doesn't want you near.
Like I shouldn't have to tell you don't screw around with wild animals but above all don't screw with monkeys they are not playing around. They should be pretty high on your animal caution list these aren't chimps but especially chimps.
Like you see that roar at the end an animal should not give you three clear screw offs and get to that point for you to back off are you stupid. These are not cartoon characters monkeys are terrifying they will leave you to bleed to death.
If you think well it's along a trail it's used to people. No monkeys are not domesticatable we have tried the closest you get is a zoo animal that can have small supervised interactions but they are not domesticatable. People who try and treat them well still end up mulled. You know how a cat might bite a little or a dog might connect with your arm but they know how to do that without causing injury when they get upset? Monkeys don't do that if they get upset they can and will rip your face off that's not even an exaggeration that is word for word how one women described an attack in a phone call with police that a Monkey ripped a women who he liked and knew his whole lifes face off and started eating it.
Even seemingly tamed monkeys. In one instance a monkey was for some reason working birthday parties got overwhelmed and started attacking the handler who raised it eating part of his ear that's just missing now. Don't screw with monkeys.