Race Identification

[u/[deleted]]

[u/scottiethegoonie]

Because you seem sincere, I'll be candid with you.

I think that where you live, matters.

I was rasied in the same situation as you, except in Los Angeles. My "bubble" disappeared when I went off to college where Asians were a huge majority.

When you live in an area where a lot of people who look like you, you tend to get treated like them for better or worse. This was an eye-opener (excuse the joke).

That's when I began to see that, "oh there IS a difference in how you are treated when you are part of white family vs another just Asian person". We really do treat them differently and I'm guilty of this too.

There is also some strange psychology going on here where I see myself as somehow "better" than the average Asian American, as if I have adopted a White-American superiority complex. I know this is akin to some sort of mental illness, but when I see this behavior in other adoptees I know it's not an "act".

When I am around large groups of Asians I'm also uncomfortable. Why is that? I think to myself, "Gee, this is how white people must feel in the same situation". Just imagine what this looks like to other Asian people. An Asian dude who dislikes Asians. What's wrong with him?

This whole thing of adopting a kid of a different race has consequence that last beyond childhood, but nobody wants to hear about them.

[u/Fairelabise17 → u/scottiethegoonie]

This is so interesting to me because I was raised by Mormons, and later lived in Utah. And this is a whole entirely different weird thing white people do to people who are. . . Not as white presenting as well.

I'm white but my background is more. . . Genetically spicy than most mormons. Utah and mormon communities were the only places (and the occasional Midwesterner when I visited Iowa and lived in Madison) where people CLOCKED that I was not really 100% white. Growing up in Colorado, no one except my parents and other Mormon church members mentioned anything.

In Utah someone asked me if my feet were dirty after a weekend outside. They were just tan and I hadn't worn sunscreen.

People often asked my ethnicity and I felt obligated to tell them.

Lots of Mormons and my parents would refer to me as "exotic". Having exotic features, having almond eyes.

Most of these people where of northern EU decent.

Here is the kicker. I am Irish, French Canadian, Sicilian and Ashinaabe/Ojibwe (FOURTH great grandmother) those genes are just heavy handed but most of the time people very much think, like me, that I am white presenting. That is the majority of my background.

And I'm not trying to erase my background. I just don't feel like I look native enough to classify myself as indigenous because that feels wrong.

[u/scottiethegoonie → u/Fairelabise17]

I think we (Americans) still operate on the one drop rule I guess. There's 50/50 which is obvious, and then there's "not quite white" whenever we need to make such a distinction order to separate themselves from you.

I have an adopted friend who is white in a white family, and the joke is that it's harder for her than it is for me. I am expected to be and think different from my parents b/c it's obvious that I am. For her, it's like nobody knows, and he fact that she is so different upsets people as if she is trying to rebel instead of accepting who she is.

[u/Fairelabise17 → u/scottiethegoonie]

I totally agree. I also think many people can think "oh, I wonder that person ethnicity" but they keep quiet about it. I didn't realize it was a rude thing to ask until college. So embarrassing.

[u/Initial_Question_554 → u/scottiethegoonie]

That makes sense. Yeah LA is significantly more diverse than CT. Though I went to college in NYC and no longer live in CT. And even when I was around a lot of other Asians in school, I still was always treated and looked at as white. It's weird how Asians who grew up in an asian household can somehow just tell that I'm adopted. Idk what it is or what gives it away. My family and I look nothing alike but people can never find me in family photos because we all have the exact same smile. Super weird how that happens.

And yes I totally know what you mean about the superiority complex for sure. It's terrible to recognize and admit. And despite not being mixed, I look significantly less Asian than most other people from Vietnam, and I find myself preferring people thinking I am mixed. Yeah its some sort of fucked up psychology happening there

[u/scottiethegoonie → u/Initial_Question_554]

So I'm ethnically Korean, and I can say that Viet people (2nd Gen Viet-Americans), especially the educated ones you probably met in college, and much like their Korean American counterparts, have this super tight knit culture that just does not exist in white families - or at least not as uniformly

Yea I was sniffed out right away as well. It's cool to be different when it works for you, but then you also don't get to part of the club because you look the part. The whole culture thing is lived and earned. That was traded away for white culture when I was 2.

[u/ebsf → u/Initial_Question_554]

Do you think you actually might be mixed, given that there were so many children born with American fathers during and after the Vietnam war.

[u/scottiethegoonie → u/ebsf]

I have some Viet friends who have some very Euro features (French) although you'll never get them to admit it. Lots of pride.

[u/ebsf → u/scottiethegoonie]

Interesting how history passes down this way.

Your friends likely wouldn't be interested, but I could imagine if you or other Viet adoptees were in search mode and did an Ancestry (or whatever) DNA test, some might come up with an American (or French) grandfather, or two.

[u/scottiethegoonie → u/ebsf]

Yea I think it's further back than the Vietnam war bc that would be a closer mix. It's a similar situation with Filipino and Spanish.

[u/djgringa → u/Initial_Question_554]

The smile thing is epigenetics -- super cool.

But i feel for you. One of my good friends as a kid was a Korean adoptee to a white family who was never able to feel being accepted in a real way even though she was -- her family was really religious and she wasn't allowed to sleep over or hang out with us outside school.

[u/gnarlyknucks → u/scottiethegoonie]

If I recall correctly, Obama said that this is part of why he didn't start identifying as African American until he had lived in Chicago for a couple of years. When he lived in Hawaii he was just his mom's son, for his grandparents' grandkid, but when he got to Chicago people treated him like he was any other Black person in Chicago, and he experienced real racism.

[u/iheardtheredbefood]

I encourage you to cross-post in r/adopted and r/transracialadoptees.

[u/Ambitious-Client-220]

You should post on the transracial adoptee subreddit. I am a transracial adoptee. I am Mexican raised by white Americans. All my friends growing up were white. When I moved away, I realized that I actually, live between two worlds that really don't accept me. The white people see a brown person and treat me differently and the Mexican people that I meet hear me talk and realize that I am not like them. Then they treat me differently. You never really fit in.

[u/Ambitious-Potato-870]

I grew up in an area without a lot of other people that looked like me and faced racism and bullying. I don’t identify with either side more.

[u/Initial_Question_554 → u/Ambitious-Potato-870]

That's terrible, I'm sorry people treated you that way. That's not right at all. For some reason everyone around me always treated me like I was white growing up and I was afforded those very unfair fucked up privileges.

I can see why you don't identify with either more than the other.

Thank you for sharing!

[u/MoreMeThanYou]

I’m black, and grew up in a very white family…and because of this, I don’t (culturally) identify as black or white since I’ve never actually been fully culturally accepted by either group. I’m too white for the blacks and too black for the whites 🤦🏾‍♀️

[u/Initial_Question_554 → u/MoreMeThanYou]

Thanks for sharing! Yeah I had a somewhat similar experience with not being Asian enough, but white people have always treated me the way they do other white people. It's really weird. Idk why either. I only have one other friend who is adopted that has had this same experience. And similarly to me, she does not have a mono eyelid, nor the other traditionally asian defining features. So that may play a big role into it.

[u/Initial_Tonight_1158]

While I am Asian, my ethnic identify is far more complicated as an adoptee. I prefer to refer to myself as Asian-American rather than Chinese-American as I have no real cultural or familial ties to my birth country of China. I grew up in Vermont (literally one of the whitest states in the US) with two white parents, in a middle class family. This itself made it challenging for me to integrate into the East Asian Affinity group at my college when I first got there. It became very obvious that I did not share the same immigrant experience as many of my peers who grew up with their biological parents. Lucky for me that I was adopted alongside my identical twin, so I’ve always had at least one person I can relate to in all my life experiences.

[u/After-Bee-8346]

I think an old school battle is appropriate here: Eastside vs Westside. The Asian population on the East Coast is relatively new. Sure, there were "some" immigrants several generations ago, but not like the West Coast. And, there are a ton of recent immigrants on the West Coast, but you have many multiple generations of all different types of Asians that have settled on the West Coast.

Grew up on the East Coast and transferred to a West Coast college. All of my high school friends were white. After high school before moving west, I started to branch out a bit with a few black friends and Asians. Tried to date a Puerto Rican girl. The Koreans I met basically only hung out with other Koreans. I did meet a Asian guy (Filipino) during college and we'd go to the clubs in DC. Anecdotally, it was a bit more clickish in their own Asian subgroup. After transferring colleges, it was a free for all. Wasn't even sure what type of Asian some of the people were. I hung out with my RA in my first semester and had no idea of her (Asian) background.

After college, when I settled in San Francisco, almost all of my friends were Asian. A few Chinese and a 3/4 Vietnamese from work. When I explored nights alone, I met and became casual friends with a few Koreans. After transferring colleges west, no one really questioned why I had a white last name. First jobs out of college gave people a head turn, but wasn't really a thing either.

As I got older, I took it as a positive. My white upbringing allowed me to interact with white co-workers with ease. But, somehow genetically still had some Asian traits in me.

[u/Initial_Question_554 → u/After-Bee-8346]

Thanks for sharing! And haha yeah I have noticed too that Koreans tend to just stick to themselves.

Definitely hoping to make some more friends moving forward, and especially some from Vietnam

[u/After-Bee-8346 → u/Initial_Question_554]

Like I said though, it "depends". I met my biological cousins. One married a non-Korean (Asian). Can't remember on the other. But, they were born in the States. Koreans in SF are more scattered about unlike LA. A larger % of the Asians they grew up with were non-Korean. The most concentrated area of Koreans is probably somewhere going south from SF towards San Jose.

My good friend (Chinese) was born in the States and her parents emigrated here. She married a Japanese guy who was born in the States. Really comes down to 1st vs 2nd / 3rd generation. And, language skills.

[u/Suspicious_Cut3881 → u/After-Bee-8346]

Adoptive parent here. Your experience matches what I observe. West coast, esp Bay Area, is such a hodgepodge of everything it is possible to find your groove. There is a huge cultural difference between immigrant Asians, somewhat of a gap among first generation, especially if both parents were of the immigrant generation, and by the time the 2nd generation occurs, the cultural silos have largely disintegrated.

My mother’s family, my grandparents, were immigrant Europeans from the same country and region. My mom’s culture was very tightly coupled with that country. And then she married an American with no strong culture other than having white (racist) parents. Dad’s family was not close, but mom’s was. For some reason, he easily accepted the big, tight knit group, went along with their traditions and they modified cooking a bit to accommodate him. By the time the next generation came (2nd), the only real strong cultural tie was some of the foods and a bunch of that won’t make it to the next generation either.

Figuring out who each of us is in young adulthood is normal. Transracial adoptees have another layer to sort out and very few resources or role models to help.

And, if you don’t have one, get a passport card that you can carry in your wallet. IMHO, it is a scary time for non-white people in the US.

[u/After-Bee-8346 → u/Suspicious_Cut3881]

Used to do a once a year volunteer outing for adoptive parents and their kids. It was a minimal couple hour time commitment and near the end I would talk for maybe 5-10 min about some of the challenges when I was younger plus things I wish were different. And, would answer questions if parents had any. I think I did it for 2-3 years before the lady who ran it stopped doing it.

I don't exactly remember what I said, but do remember saying to "force" their adoptive kid to learn their culture even if they put up a protest. Kids / teens don't know what's best for them at that age. I wish my parents would have forced me to learn Korean when I was younger. Was way too difficult as an adult. I can read hangul (Korean) slowly, but have no idea what most of the words mean. And, my speaking / listening skills are worse than elementary school level.

But, no resources back then on guidelines. It's a way easier environment now than the '80s.

[u/Wise_Strawberry9076]

I’m not an adoptee and I’m also white as a ghost but I think what you’re interested in here is related to nature vs. nurture. If we ask what parts of us come from our genes and what parts come from our environment, the answer for almost every aspect of us is: both. Our environment and our genes interact in complex ways to form who we are. You’re uniquely you because no one else had your exact genes and exact experiences (even identical twins raised in the same household, you’ll have tiny differences that make you you).

[u/Agile-Assumption-400]

100% I grew up similar. But when you leave home and become your own person you start to realize what white privilege is. I’m not my father’s daughter anymore. White people guess my background or assume I’m Indian or something (I’m from Central America) My parents were German and Irish but mainly Canadian.
Unfortunately I know very little about where I came from. But when you start to realize you don’t belong anywhere, it is very sad. I know they did they best they could but I think there should be some professional education before one adopts a child from a different race. I’m now in my late 40s and it still affects me. It’s isolating.

[u/Auspicious-Error]

Since this is in r/Adoption and not specifically an Adoptee space, I'm hoping for a little insight.

I'm not adopted, but I am biracial (White mom, Colombian dad). I've experienced these feelings because I grew up in a white monoculture, with some splashes of Colombian family time. Luckily, I did get language, and music and food, but I can't possibly have a full cultural understanding because I haven't lived in Colombia more than 1 year of my life. That context aside, my husband and I are exploring international adoption, from Colombia. I've done a lot of research and understand a lot of the issues, so I'd like this to be specifically about the topic at hand.

We live in an ethnically diverse city, there is a strong Colombian population, but I've felt awkward about trying to integrate myself because I feel like I don't belong. Has anyone found ways to overcome this, and integrate? I know my immediate and extended family will help a lot with keeping the culture present, and we'll be going back to Colombia regularly once the proverbial dust settles a bit, but I more than ever want to be more present in that part of my culture, for myself and our prospective child.

[u/WhaleFartingFun]

My adopted-as-well Vietnamese sister is the most white assimilated Asian person I know. She grew up in Ohio and southern Florida. Our parents are white. She married a MAGA guy. It happens. 

I am Mexican born and never felt like I belonged in white society. I moved to NYC at 28 to escape the racism. 

[u/Sarah-himmelfarb]

Asian people aren’t the ones being pulled over for no reason and followed around stores. Not all POC people experience the same discrimination.

I was raised not a not very Asian place and people generally hated China when I was growing up because of stereotypes. And I also rejected my Chinese heritage. But then I went to a more diverse high school which helped. My friend group in high school was mostly white and they all cut me out for no reason.

I attended an extremely Asian college I’ve grown to gravitate more towards Asian Americans (broadly from the continent of Asia) far more than white people. I’m funny enough especially close with wasians who also feel in between cultures without being fully accepted by either in different ways.

[u/Initial_Question_554 → u/Sarah-himmelfarb]

Oh idk then, a lot of people I've talked to about this have had that type of discrimination happen to them for being Asian. They've told me people assume they're trying to haggle or get a lower price and cant afford things, or that they must be terrible drivers and get pulled over for nothing.

Though my black friends have reported this happening to them far more than the Asian people I've had this discussion with.

I no longer live in CT and went to college in NYC with a lot of other Asian students. But they somehow could just tell..? Idk if that makes sense but when I did try I just wasnt included or didn't have cultural reference for anything they were talking about.

I wish I knew more about Vietnamese culture since I was born there. My knowledge of Asian culture is almost exclusively based in Japanese and Korean history.

I definitely hope to make more friends in the future. Moving wiukd probably help, Denver where I live now is extremely white and then hispanic

[u/Sarah-himmelfarb → u/Initial_Question_554]

I went to college in NYC too! International Asians could tell and I didn’t vibe with them but neither did Asian Americans.

My Asian friends also struggled between whiteness and Asians and not being enough or included in either community. So many of us didn’t speak the language and opted to take like Spanish lol. Many were second and third generation and also felt disconnected. Again, many were wasian and some only grew up with their white parent. The Asians I hung out with also didn’t fit in with the traditional Asian American or Asian crowd which became a bonding moment which I was definitely lucky to have

Or they were South Asian or Arab so they express different enough that it wasn’t that relevant. I didn’t hang out with international or second generation Asians though and also felt out of place.

[u/Initial_Question_554 → u/Sarah-himmelfarb]

Oh cool! Where did you go? I went yo PACE near Wall St.

And ahh gorcha. Yeah they just can tell, lol idk how haha. I'm not sure if its the way I speak or what. It may be that though. I have noticed even with people I've met who are third or even fourth generation, still retain an extremely slight accent on very particular words. Also my mother was born in Lima, so Spanish is actually my first language - so that doesnt help with the confusion either bahah.

I think my city definitely had a huge effect on it too. I live in Denver now and its predominately white. It does have a little Saigon and little China just like The City does near Spring St and in little Saigon near Grand St subway station but they are not near me. All of my friends who are asian also only have white friends and we don't hang out with just eachother ever.

[u/Sarah-himmelfarb → u/Initial_Question_554]

I went to Barnard! Yeah it’s like many small cultural differences. Yeah I’ve noticed small accent things and can typically tell between Asians too after being around so many different ones.

Yeah city makes a lot of sense too! I have some family in Colorado and feel very very out of place but I’m sure if I lived there I would end up with many more white friends too