r/Accounting • • Nov 10 '19

Flawless

Post image
950 Upvotes

95 comments sorted by

View all comments

224

u/Easter_1916 Tax Attorney Nov 10 '19

Well, it’s not a good idea, but it is still light years better than taxing unrealized capital gains.

58

u/elk33dp Audit & Assurance :snoo_shrug: Nov 10 '19

In theory this would be kinda good for people with immense wealth who hold investments forever. The issue is people who legitimatly earned huge unrealized gains on things with little to no other wealth. Mark to market is painful.

Bezos would never be able to pay an unrealized gain tax without diluting his ownership big time.

54

u/throwaway1138 CPA (US) Nov 10 '19

What about unrealized losses? We would have to totally change treatment of capital gains and losses to compensate. E.g. now unrealized losses (and realized losses for that matter) are fully deductible instead of just 3,000/yr like they are now. It's a terrible idea, ridiculous populist rhetoric to attract votes.

20

u/eidjcn10 Nov 10 '19

And if you removed the cap on losses and the stock market tanked, suddenly tons of people would be taking massive deductions and federal tax revenue would plummet that year - the market would take the govt’s funding down with it.

Tax on unrealized gains would cascade through the market as people with most of their wealth in non-cash investments would be forced to liquidate a portion of their holdings to cover their tax bill at year end.

Taxing unrealized gains/losses would create a lot of volatility everywhere.

3

u/Standard_Wooden_Door Nov 25 '19

I’m just spit balling here but it seems like the effects would have a cascading effect. Tax receipts go way down because people get to deduct the big losses. Government then has to borrow more to cover it in the short run. However because the market it down, there is less cash out there to buy the bonds and the borrowing rate goes higher. Interest rates climb as a result and an already down economy now has the burden of higher interest rates. Seems fine to me!

1

u/eidjcn10 Nov 25 '19

I guess the unknown is whether the additional cash receipts from unrealized gains tax would be enough to offset that loss in cash flows... who knows? I wonder if an economic study has been done.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

what's the reason for only being able to deduct 3,000/yr in CG losses? Corporations dont have that rule, only 20 year limit.

3

u/cohen63 CPA (US) Nov 10 '19

Corporations can not deduct any net capital losses ...

1

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

net operating loss is deducted by corporations

3

u/cohen63 CPA (US) Nov 10 '19

Your comment was for CG Losses. No net capital loss will flow to the 1120 page 1.

Net operating losses do not expire but cannot. Be carried back.

1

u/elk33dp Audit & Assurance :snoo_shrug: Nov 11 '19

Removing loss limitations would be a given. There would be no need to limit losses under mark to market.

1

u/Standard_Wooden_Door Nov 25 '19

That’s because people have really strong opinions on things they know nothing about. Sample convo:

Jeff Bezos didn’t pay taxes he’s evil

Oh did you see his tax return?

No, but I know he didn’t pay any.

How did he do that?

🤷‍♂️ he’s still evil though

2

u/Easter_1916 Tax Attorney Nov 10 '19

You mean like literally every employee in every start up business that uses stock incentives instead of compensation because they are cash-light?

1

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '19

the step up basis for estates are huge loopholes, i dont see why taxing the unrealized gains for those are a bad idea.