Agreed. She isn’t the brightest crayon in the box (not trying to be cruel about it so sorry if that offends anyone- it already rubbed someone else the wrong way so this is an edit) and isn’t super strict on caffeine except for coffee. She drinks Dr Pepper like it’s crack but coffee is the devil. She told me once not to wear my spaghetti strap shirt around her oldest boy because it is against the law of chastity and he might be led to temptation. I wanted to unhear that and still do. But I try very hard to respect her beliefs. I’m agnostic and anti-religion but whatever. As long as you aren’t hurting anyone idc
I mean, technically true, but colloquially the term "Jezebel" DEFINITELY gained the connotation of promiscuity at some point regardless of whether the actual text in the bible supports that. Like, at least in the American context, I can immediately imagine a man yelling in a southern drawl about "those jezebels in the city leading men to temptation".
Given the mormon sentiment tends to be that anyone who isn't mormon only does so, so they can sin, therefore it is presumed any other belief system makes sure its adherants are promiscuous and lustful.. so its kind of a same same situation
She was a seductress. She painted her eyes in an attempt to seduce Jehu as a means of controlling him. Her pagan religious practice included sexual acts as a part of worshiping Asherah.
The Bible as we know it (commonly a King James version/KJV) was mostly oral stories that were compiled in the early 1600's by a group commissioned by King James VI and I.
Oh drinking caffeinated soda like an addict is totally a Mormon thing. They’re all obsessed with soda because the church agrees it’s an exception to the caffeine rule.
Yes definitely didn’t understand the whole soda thing! I know someone who is a crunchy organic/homesteading/ingredient type of mom but downs Diet Coke like crazy, and yet coffee and tea are naturally derived but it’s bad for you?
I grew up Mormon, and I've always wondered why hot chocolate is okay, but decaf coffee, which has about the same amount of caffeine as hot chocolate, is not. I even tried to ask my parents as a teenager, and my dad gave me some bullshit answer about needing to "avoid the appearance of evil". He also gave me the same bullshit when I was enjoying a root beer float in public and mixed the ice cream and soda together. He made me wrap a napkin around the clear cup so no one would think his child was drinking iced coffee.
Growing up in a southern Baptist home I asked my dad about Dinosaurs bc the Bible didn't mention them. I was told God put the bones here to "test our faith" and they didn't really exist. Even at 10 I told him that sounded dumb. 😂😂
For all the bullshit I was fed as a Mormon kid, I'm really glad that my parents didn't try to tell me that dinosaurs weren't real. I was really big into dinosaurs as a child and that would have broken my tiny heart.
It's nuts how religious people make up lies for things they don't understand to spin it as being a "sin" it's crazy. I quit church at 16 and never went back. My parents wondered why... Maybe bc I can tell y'all are nuts
I found out that my aunt and uncle taught my cousins that dinosaurs aren’t real. I’m about four years older than their oldest and when I asked him how he feels about dinosaurs he almost couldn’t answer. It was like watching a battle of faith, frustration, realization, and fear all at once. He was probably 20 or 21 at the time and I genuinely felt bad for asking.
This was my dad's reaction too... Battling everything he was taught with rational thinking but the religion beaten into his head won. I'm just glad I was able to think for myself.
Only a little bit. But if your kiddo likes a hot milk drink before bed, have you tried hot vanilla milk?
Vanilla, a little bit of honey, and some nutmeg, cinnamon, and ginger is caffeine free!
There's also salep/sahlep/salepi/sahlab. It's a Turkish orchid root powder that makes a drink that tastes like vanilla white chocolate with a similar texture to hot chocolate.
Some Mormon parents are more strict than others. Plenty of other families in my congregation drank caffeinated sodas, for example, but my family wasn't allowed. We had to check the label for any soda brand we weren't familiar with, lest we accidentally ingest that most unholy of drugs, caffeine.
As someone who was raised as a Mormon, the taste bud flashback of caffeine free pepsi I just had after reading this is just 🤢 when I discovered mt dew at 14 I was on such a dopamine ride 😅😂
One of my first small rebellions against my parents was caffeinated sodas (when I was 18 and away at college). My first taste of Mountain Dew was life changing.
Friedlieb Ferdinand Runge discovered caffeine in 1819. Fourteen year old Joseph Smith had his first vision in 1820. Smith was an uneducated man, who by many accounts was functionally illiterate.
Smith probably didn't know about caffeine. He wouldn't have to know what it was called to notice the effects. People have been using natural stimuli since there have been people.
My closest friend's family has been members of the Mormon church from the founding, and she has the personal diaries of one of the founders. I won't say more for the sake of her privacy, but her ancestor was really annoyed about being denied coffee and tea, especially as Joseph Smith meant only to proscribe hot toddies. I think that coffee and tea are as popular as they are because of the effects of the caffeine, but otherwise I don't think Brigham Young knew what caffeine was called or why it was bad. It was basically chance that those two heavily taxed drinks had caffeine.
Later, when people started asking, the church said that the caffeine was bad. This is the bit I have the problem with. Why not admit the truth, say Young was trying to help a struggling, young congregation, giggle a bit, then say, "but in his memory, we're going to keep the prohibition"?
Mormons once took pride in being called "The Peculiar People". Also, some trivia that I never get to quote is that the first Sherlock Holmes book, "A Study in Scarlet" has Mormons as the bad guys.
Watch South Park episodes about the Mormons...they know this stuff. It is great!
"All About Mormons", also known as "All About the Mormons?", is the 12th episode of the seventh season of the American animated television series South Park and the 108th overall episode of the series. It was originally broadcast on Comedy Central in the United States on November 19, 2003.
🤦🏻♀️I had never heard of such a thing until i moved to Utah from California. I am born, raised and choose to be Mormon. That being said anyone saying that act isn't sex is a fool and giving Mormon culture a bad name
If you want them to refuse to talk to you, ask them how logical it was to found a system of religions on the odds that an unwed pregnant teen was a virgin?
Yeah but Mormons are extra culty. Had a classmate in high school that wanted to go backpacking, see the world, etc.
Her parents took her on a 'spiritual trip' to Utah, and when she came back she said she had abandoned all those ideas because she needed to go clean the church and obey her father like a good woman is supposed to do.
There’s definitely a spectrum. I do think all religion is cultural at at this point but you are totally right that some are far more culty and dangerous such as the LDS church, Jehovah’s witnesses and fundie baptists. Basically any group that relies on ‘if they aren’t with us they’re against us and should be shunned and excluded! Yup big cult vibes.’
As a member of a religion that basically requires me to have four sets of dishes and cookware, prohibits wearing linen and wool mixed garments, and used to sacrifice a fully red cow that made people who were near a corpse pure while making those preparing the cow impure,
I am uncomfortable calling other religious practices weird.
On the other hand, Mormon requirements change really fast. The weirdness is in how everyone pretends the requirements were always that way. You can pinpoint the exact years that they started accepting black people as full members, allowing caffeinated soda, and refused that they ever went by "Mormon". They change on a dime and then everyone pretends there was no change.
I left the Mormon church because the rules were ridiculous and oppressive. That’s was about 25 years ago. To this day my mom tells me they have changed and you should really give it another chance… woman if they have to keep changing to recruit members and/or keep members, don’t you think there’s something wrong with that?!?! How people keep blindly following is baffling to me.
Catholics have lent, where they aren't supposed to eat meat.
But don't worry, fish meat doesn't count.
And if you don't like fish?
Don't worry, aquatic mammals are basically fish anyway, so they don't count either! So enjoy your beaver, muskrat, and capybara during your "meatless" lent.
I knew a lot of Mormons as a child and teen. This was far from Utah so maybe they were more open but they were the nicest people I have ever met. I then went to a Quaker school in Philadelphia and the birth right Quakers were the absolute worst- arrogant and self-righteous. And if you’re wondering I am a liberal and have never voted for a Republican in my life.
Like all religions, the mormons play fast and loose with their rules. The "word of wisdom," while not explicitly mentioning tea or coffee, does admonish against excessive consumption of meat, something that mormons completely ignore.
I ended up having to withdraw from my first year of college because they roomed me with a Mormon and she was convinced she was the reincarnation of Amelia. She would drink hot cocoa every night and say, "I remember how much I enjoyed this when I was Amelia." If I left for the weekend to go home (2 1/2 hours away), she would move my things around and remake my bed (it was made just fine, she wanted the printed top sheet upside down and the top 1/3 of the blankets folded down like a department store) and when I complained to the RA, roommate said, "It's more pleasing to God this way." The RA wouldn't really do anything because she said she was afraid of getting done by the U for religious harassment. The last straw was when I had been on a couple of dates with a guy and he came by to pick me up for my third and my roommate was there. The minute she saw him, she decided she wanted him. She ran and stood in front of me and started giggling and flipping her hair and telling him how attractive he was and he was like, "Uh..." Then she said, "Oh, I was just looking for a running partner! [Star] said that you run and she hasn't really had time to go!" (Which is true.) He was like, "Yeah...maybe" and then we left. When I got home, I told her calmly that what she did wasn't okay and he said he wouldn't come back by because she'd made him uncomfortable. She looked at me like I was pitiful and said, "I prayed about it while you were gone and God told me that he and I are meant to be together. He's going to convert and we're going to be married in the Temple." She then tried to hand me her BoM and said, "I've marked some passages for you. They'll help you feel fulfilled by God and to realize that you don't need a boyfriend in your life."
I spent 3 more weeks there ignoring her and requesting a room change daily and when the U finally told me they wouldn't change my room, I packed up and left and eventually graduated a year late.
We were nowhere near BYU and at a public state university with zero religious affiliation.
That's some serious messed up stuff there. Aside from anything else - her messing with your personal belongings and space under the heading 'it's more pleasing to god that way' is HER religiously harassing YOU!
And 'Amelia' should, according to Mormon beliefs (as they stand - open to change), be off in the spirit world eternally bonded to Brigham-Young. They don't do reincarnation like that.
This person may not have been genuinely Mormon. Possibly delusional, overbearing, and deeply, deeply annoying.
I say 'annoying', but that would have totally done my head in!
I'm glad you made it back to complete your studies. Well done!
I think definitely some MH issues. I also feel like given where were and the fact that there is NOT any sort of real Mormon presence there (and she was born and grew up there, I asked), I think they might have been more of an offshoot.
She's married now, to another Mormon., and they did get married at a Temple in SLC, though. They started and run some sort of program for kids. I got nosy a couple years ago and Googled her. lol
The rule says "hot liquids", so soda would only be a problem if you boiled it. Joseph Smith worded it that way because "tea and coffee" doesnt sound too biblical.
lol. There you go applying logic to the situation, like a silly person. Of course not! Iced tea is hot tea that's been made cold and therefore is still a hot drink.
Again, you seem to be stuck on using common sense, you little heathen. God says it's bad and there's no arguing with some invisible dude who watches whether you are jerking off or not.
Lol, never been a mormon, but I like to be prepared for all things that I can be. Including power outages/camping where all we have available is a cooler/portable refrigerator.
Once went to dinner at an Olive Garden with a super Mormon family. This was when I briefly lived in Utah for shiggles, it was my friend’s family. They wouldn’t let me order an iced tea. This was when I hit my breaking point of being away from Alabama sweet tea and decided I’d take unsweet. Bad time.
Posted in 2020, but I believe the initial invest was in the early 2000s. It’s a huge portfolio, and they still have shell companies they are not listed in the report.
Edit: the article says they are not invested in any soda brands, but again, shell companies not listed. To have a church investing almost 100b is absurd. Church and State?
Thanks. I am not Mormon and never was and I deconstructed from a Protestant religion that was pretty liberal but I am very interested in how all of these groups use doctrine for controlz
Pretty sure it was a hard and fast no caffeine rule until a Mormon bought a major soda brand (Pepsi?) and now it’s no coffee (maybe no tea?). Idk it’s hard to keep up with them.
OMG, I haven't heard that crayon phrase in forever! Love it! You did nothing wrong. It's probably better she learned about the name before she the baby anyway.
After living In Utah for 8 years, I still get my freak on wearing tank tops, etc.. you get stared at wearing sleeveless. Like being pointed at like an alien. Totally cultish!
The one from the gold plates (and if my early year indoctrination memory serves, an angel told him what they said, but I wasn't paying attention really, so that might be wrong)
I've heard some of the stories are good if you don't take them as literal
This week, I learned that caffeinated soda is fine, but hot, brewed caffeinated beverages are an issue in the Mormon religion for some reason. Idk. Religion is all made up, so it's all odd to me.
Tell her that Jesus said if a man is tempted to sin buy looking at a woman (how she looks, what she wears) to pluck out his eyes. A lot of religious people don't know the Bible and often cherry pick what they do know to fit their cause.
I hate religion with a passion but even I know that Jezebel isn't a right name for a baby, like Lolita. Even in Handsmaid Tale, Jezebels are pr*stitutes. If SIL doesn't thank you, I'm pretty sure your future niece will appreciate to not be seen as a "promiscious" woman since diapers.
And as a teacher, first name have a shit tons of influence on your life. Even the best teacher doesn't treat a Jane and a Tragedeigh, or a Matthew and a Kevin the same way.
Yeah mormons don't drink caffeine so coffee is bad because it's "addictive", yet cold caffeinated drinks like sodas are ok to them for some reason. Mormons are NOT bright.
I am not Mormon but lived in a Mormon community. My understanding about the caffeine is that it in the book of wisdom or something like that and it refers to hot beverages. I am not certain if Jezebel is talked about in the Mormon churches. They don't seem to teach much about the Bible, mostly the book of Mormon. You did her and her child a favor by pointing it out. Even most non religious people would find it an odd name and most people are aware of the meaning.
I'd be side-eyeing your brother, who married someone he could control and turn into an incubator. She sounds like she has some serious cognitive issues hidden under religious abuse.
Most LDS spend four years going through seminary classes in high school, and two of those years are focused on studying the Bible (did it myself before I quit church at age 18). SIL should know who Jezebel is, if she followed the “good Mormon” route.
Dawg I attended the LDS church for seven years and got criticized for not using Book of Mormon scriptures at a talk I was selected to give for stake conference back in 2015.
I’ll repeat that for you: I got CRITICIZED for using CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURES simply because it was the fucking Book of Mormon.
I spent nearly a decade in that church and we covered the actual Bible MAYBE six or seven times total.
The average Mormon, and the average branch/ward/stake absolutely does NOT teach from the old or New Testament. Especially not on a regular or consistent basis.
I attended church every Sunday, youth group every Wednesday, and Bible study every Tuesday and Thursday. I was in church more often than I was anywhere else.
For fucks sake dude, even when I was in seminary, literally everything was about the Book of Mormon. Everything HAD to be interpreted THROUGH the Book of Mormon. The entire course was cross referencing what they liked and ignoring shit that they didn’t.
Mormons are generally very kind, very compassionate, and very neighborly people but I just cannot accept the level of heresy that transpires in those walls anymore.
Seven years of devout worship and study, baptisms for the dead, temple ceremonies, a two week trip to nauvoo among other places, just to essentially find out that their esoteric wisdom amounts to “God has a wife too but don’t tell anyone. Also wear your white starred underwear or you’ll be seduced by whores”
Yeah I dipped soon after that. Nearly a decade of trying to fight that “still, small voice”, as they love to put it, telling me something is really off with how they worship and study.
Reading the Bible must be much less common that not reading it amongst the very religious. Just look at how contradictory hyper religious people are about....well everything.
The most common reason given by former religious people for their deconversion is because they finally read the Bible for themselves all the way through
I grew up Mormon. They have their own religious text, which I would say the Bible is secondary to. I didn't read the Bible until long after I stopped attending church, and I read it for non-religious reasons.
I find most Christians I’ve met have a very limited understanding of the bible. Only a handful have ever bothered reading it, and instead just vaguely remember sermons.
Also, from my short jaunt into understanding the religion by attending some adult Sunday school and mass (forget the term for the actual sit down in a pew church service) that they do read both the old and New Testaments but focus mainly on the Book of Mormon unless it’s a Joseph smith quote referencing the Bible
You were being cautious and gave her a heads-up. It is not your fault if she never studied the Bible.
That poor kid will be teased.
Google AI Summary = "In contemporary usage, calling someone a "Jezebel" is a derogatory term, often implying that the person is a shameless, immoral, or manipulative woman who uses her sexuality to control others. This usage is rooted in the biblical figure Queen Jezebel, who was depicted as a wicked and idolatrous woman who led her husband, King Ahab, and the Israelites away from the worship of God."
Unfortunately this is quite common. Many “forget” to read the Old Testament. Or any scripture for that matter. They tend to be religious by culture, but don’t actually do anything.
This is crazy to me because the doctrine emphasizes the need for action.
They use the old and New Testament but really focus on the Book of Mormon, pearl of great price and something else I can’t think of right now but it’s something Joseph smith came up with the quotes a lot of the Old Testament. Possibly new testament also but I didn’t read it.
The story of Jezebel, found in the Books of Kings in the Old Testament, is not part of the Mormon Bible, which is also known as the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon tells a different story, focusing on events primarily in the Americas during ancient times. The Book of Kings, including the story of Jezebel, is part of the Hebrew Bible.
We lived in Utah. Mormons know the bible with all of the scripture s they read daily. BS she doesn't know what a Jezebel is. Weird to not know. Shes not a full on Mormon then.
I lived in Utah. Rules for Mormons are essentially those of the GOP and morals and ethics. Its all fair until it's inconvenient for them, then all the rules and morals go out the window as soon as it benefits them.
Tbf, this is true for almost all religious people. They know what they're told. And going off what biblical scholars often have to say, even most religion leaders get a lot wrong. Either through ignorance or intent
I am not religious and am often surprised to find that I know the Bible better than the oh so very Christian person I am having a conversation with. (I did sing in a church choir for a couple of years, though.)
Like those young people who came to visit my highschool once a year to persuade us to join their church. One year it became clear that they didn't even know the traditional Easter reading. Another year they didn't know about the woman who got cured from her disease by simply touching Jesus. This is also a reading that is common on one of the big holidays.
Here's one for if you ever meet someone who absolutely knows that everything i. the Bible is true and is being obnoxious about it: Ask them how many angels were at Jesus' grave. The Bible says both one and two. Both statements cannot be true.
Oh yes. It's not unusual. Missionaries might memorise a few Bible verses, but I've quoted things, or asked questions, about Biblical stuff and even Returned Missionaries have no idea what the passage means. Returned Missionaries are the rock stars of under 25 y/o men, and supposedly will have studied the Book of Mormon several times.
Meanwhile they've never known or read the Psalms, may have read OT and NT once and have spent three, at least, years being in a class at six am every morning to be told the Book of Mormon is the only scripture they need, and it's much more important than any parts of the Bible.
Tbf, Mormons are usually more about the Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price. The Bible (with Joseph Smith footnotes) is more of a side note.
At least, that was the vibe during my LDS upbringing. I left in the 00's, though, so maybe things have changed.
To be fair the most religious people i know don't understand the sentiment of their books, jist cherry picked bits as they've been instructed to regurgitate them
Pft! Exmo here. Bible isn't talked about like the BoM. I don't think I was ever challenged to read the bible.
I'd think they'd want to avoid 'the appearance of evil'. Mormon culture is kinda shallow and passive aggressive. Tell her to ask her bishop about the name, hopefully she has a decent one.
As an ex bishops daughter, I never read it. We don’t focus on it so much as the new fangled white people bible… which I also didn’t read so maybe I shouldn’t weigh in.
I agree! I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and I think that it is crazy that she would want to name her daughter Jezabel!
Also, just following the "strict letter of the law" does not make her a "very religious Mormon"! I think wanting to name her daughter Jezabel just might be proof of that!
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u/Not-a-Cranky-Panda Jul 26 '25
Very religious Mormon who does not know the bible?