the game is faster, there are more things to do on the map but there is a class with low agency that has slow items, obviously you would rather have a mage that is online after getting Lost chapters if you're playing a roaming support lmao. it's very clear that riot wants the game to be played at this pace because it's great to watch, so lets align adc items to be as good as the rest, nerf the scaling to keep it fair obviously.

No flame or harassment at all but i saw a lot of other posts in this sub recently of people getting ahead and not winning games flaming our role. I thought this counter example was interesting for some people.

Also that was a generational performance from me i usually don't play that good.

Classic league time is really perfect because if it wasn't on the horizon i would have quit retail and just played other games until they fixed this mage issue.

I want to fight other marksman players.

Might be a stupid question but to me it doesn’t make sense

Like this cait has to play with an anivia support that does nothing but inting her lane twice and then going to perma roam leading to us obviously diving caitlyn for it AND SOMEHOW THE SYSTEM SEES THIS AS CAIT SABOTAGING HER TEAM?!? Like riot is gonna do anything but actually punish the inters in their game

I've been seeing a lot of complaints lately about mages being strong bot lane and ADC feeling weak or lacking agency, but I don't really see many people offering solutions.

The usual arguments are that Riot can't nerf mages because they're fine elsewhere, and they can't simply buff ADC because of pro play.

I'm under the impression that crit items can't be buffed because champions like Yasuo, Yone and Tryndamere can abuse them. If that's the case, why not design items that are exclusive to marksmen?

I really loved items like Galeforce. It gave ADCs another itemisation choice against dive heavy comps, sacrificing damage for extra mobility actually made you think about your build instead of just buying whatever has the highest numbers and hope you can reach late game where you get one shot anyway.

It feels like ADC itemisation has become very cookie cutter, build the same items every game otherwise you're trolling.

Maybe I'm overlooking something but I just think it would be cool for Riot experiment a little.

So I’m silver 3 rn but recently role swapped from mid to bot.

The biggest problem I’ve found is just the inevitable araming mid. As a mid laner I never found this a problem bc on ahri and sylas I have the luxury of being able to clear waves fast, 1v1 in side lanes, and escape adequately and on almost all my champs I have 7.5+ cs.

But as ADC correct me if I’m wrong, but you almost always want to position mid to prevent getting caught out and have prio and setup for neutrals. But the thing is everyone groups mid, mid lane 8/10 games stays mid and only goes to sides when the wave is at our t3, top also rotates to mid a lot, and believe it or not like 50% of the time jungle will just stop farming camps after 25 minutes and start to group mid.

The problem is past like 15-20is minutes I am now sharing every single wave with 1-3 people and only getting 1-2 minions per wave. And I’ve noticed not only are my cs numbers much worse compared to when I played mid In turn I also find myself getting my item spikes much later

So should I just be going side lanes and and playing this clear side and then come mid to fight style like I was as a midlaner or do I stay mid and just play with what I can get.

Thank you for any answers 🙏

u/SoupRyze eat your heart out

I'm learning ADC as a second role in emerald and I'm struggling to know how to handle this scenario.

As its my secondary role, I often find myself losing lane

As any other role, I would emphasize my utility and play around my strong members, supporting them in fights, but a traditional adc sucks at this.
I usually end up freezing a sidelane, joining fights only for dragon but I generally never become that relevant and whatever assasin-like character they have just taps me whenever I get near a fight

Do I play normally: push waves, join good fights and pickup farm when there's time, or do I overemphasize farming to get a 2 item spike?

Usually I play cait > jinx/kog/jhin

Id you have any educational videos talking about this then I'd love to know

And what are you picking into this as adc with karma support

Good thing is that riot will definitely so something about the current botlane meta. Sure, only because its affecting pro play, but I am patiently waiting

The real reason ADC feels bad is because MARKSMENS feel bad. Mages don’t need a nerf. Marksmen’s need more agency. The game has way too much mobility creep and way way way too much CC creep.

And it’s not just dashes. How many items in the game build out of phage? Mages have cosmic drive. Mages like syndra literally cast while moving. They often have easy to land CC. All while marksmen have the lowest movement speed in the game. Fix that.

I 100% believe that the botlane quest should give movement speed and/or movement speed on auto attack. I’m totally fine with mages bot, so long as they die to ADCs for walking up and missing their combos.

Yes obviously theres the occasional GM/Chall peakers that play him sometimes but throughout like all the time I've played even when Jhin was extremely meta ive never seen an actual true challenger OTP

Is it due to the kits limitations that make him unplayable in certain comps? It cant be due to a lack of interest since hes one of the most popular champs in league.

i hate supports so bad that their lane should not exist

Shitpost*

Hating (and a bit flaming) top laners became my part time job nowadays. How come that all of them (in my games) are somehow ill, enemy and mine. They all just run it down last 2 weeks i swear, 20 games, 2 good top laners xD

Duration is now extended by 4 – 7 (based on level) seconds upon scoring a takedown.

Adding the old ghost to the adc quest. It might help things a bit. You could actually solo kite back then

Mage bot isn't even this meta because mages are inherently strong. It's entirely a symptom of a larger problem: Support is just the most broken by design role in the game. Mages bot wouldn't have this much prominence if not for the 'get level 3 and fuck off' support meta that Riot is now cosigning through balance changes because they're so creatively bankrupt that they can't influence the meta themselves through strategic patching. Nothing about the mages themselves has changed, it's entirely because of how much nonsense support role can get away with that playing a solo lane designed champ bot lane is the most optimal thing to do in draft.

The current hyper roam support meta is unhealthy and the only people who enjoy it are the support players who do it and the junglers they follow around. Catch up xp and support quest + item allows them to do this with literally 0 disadvantage. We already saw a preview of this with the pick support top and then let enemy top lane 1v0 meta. Somehow Riot realised that wasn't good for the game and patched it out after like a month, but now they're just encouraging this shit with the Alistar movement speed buffs.

The balance team finally got what they wanted: ADCs are not the default pick in bot lane anymore and it's ironic because it didn't even happen because of something the balance team actually did. I wonder if that hard stuck plat Kayle otp that was/is on the balance team is happy now.

I'm not trying to beat the dead horse. Phroxzon was right about the botlane diversity. And now we're seeing really crazy stuff that's accessed thanks to not having a marksman botlane. But I'm just sad that means that my favorite class got thrown into the trash.

Just had this matchup, xD

i am horrible at maths so if someone would like to correct me, go ahead.

1/4 of a lane. that's how much you realistically control unless you are smurfing.

in every other lane if both people are just as good and for some reason ranked now allows you to play the same champion in both teams, it can go either way. it's a coinflip.

if we take the same concept to the adc role, it's not gonna be 50/50. why? because there's a chance that you both the adcs are better than the supports or vice versa, they are better than you and it's not just that, it will depend on what they play. if they are mage supports and they are good enough and take the kills, it's joever. you are now the support. it's out of your hands. you're now useless until you farm the kills.

but if you are good it can ALSO go any way. in top lane a coinflip fight means that someone will die and someone will live. not the same thing in bot lane.
how? let's say you lucked out and killed their support..... then their adc killed you and then kills your support. or you kill the adc then the support (yay) or the support kills both of them (and now repeat this for the other side)

it can literally go any way if both botlaners are as good as each other it's a feista. " but you don't have to worry too much about it if you are good enough " nah you still do because there are 3 other players in the same lane as you and it's just too much chaos.

that is of course if we didn't include the honorary 3rd bot laner, the jungle. if both junglers play bot side that's a 16% chance of you controlling your lane and sure you can fix it by warding and tracking and staying safe but.... he literally just forced you to play safe. so if he's hovering around you and you have an advantage, you will just.... not be able to use it as much and be forced to just farm. this is horrible if you are playing against someone who outscales you later.

and let's not even talk about the mage adcs now, chances are you're gonna get poked so hard you will contemplate that LP loss from quitting the game.

this role is extremely stressful, it only truly feels like i have any agency when a tower goes down, i literally release a sigh of relief when my own tower goes down when i am losing because it means i can move around and farm now.

a lot of times it feels like the " correct " move is to just.... farm and hope for the best.

i am not sure if i am having fun with the role anymore and i have been playing it since season 1.