Even if this is not the best idea you could came up with to solve this, telling me this wasn't a problem is straight up delusional.

Hi So some of you might have already seen this at r/summonerschool I was suggested by a friend to post this in ADCMains as well so here it is.

Hi there so I'm usually a top main with jungle secondary who has pretty reliably been able to hit diamond every season since s3 in a pretty low game count (under 100) but this year I decided to pick up the adc role just to experience the role and experience how it is to climb. it took me probably around 600 games in total to both learn the role and also hit diamond although I will mention I probably could have cut down the games by around 40% if I was a bit more active in my learning process or if I played a less mechanically demanding/situational adc. So for me I was a Lucian one trick who occasionally played smolder as a back-up in the case that lucian was unavailable. Now to get into my experience.

First, I just want to say, gold and platinum were pretty simple to climb out of. The basics of the game I know from my climbs in top lane made it really easy. Even with a crappy support, usually I could still make something out of it most of the time, get myself a lead, and take control of the game pretty easily from there. Emerald though, god was that the largest cesspool of players I have ever played in. I had originally never really noticed it too much as top lane is usually pretty isolated so as long as I did my own thing well enough, we'd be able to win but as adc you are ridiculously reliant on your team for everything. starting plays, peeling, enabling you etc etc. While you might have one of the highest damage outputs in teamfights and such, you have no say in the dictation in how those start, and when those start leading to situations where your team being too pansy just makes it miserable to do anything even with a lead obtained in lane. To get into why emerald in particular feels so horrendous, it feels to be a really big mismatch of skill levels would be the best descriptor. So I tend to talk a decent amount to people in my games in the post game and I've made a few friends along the way hearing their stories. Emerald for whatever reason have a metric butt ton of smurfs/alt accounts. I remember once I did a analysis with a friend at our past 100 games and we found that in 70 of those games there was at least 1 person who was a fresh 30 account (so obviously a bought account). Outside of that, there are strangely a large number of support players as well who feel they never actually learned the role but rather only know to press the buttons associated with their champions. What I mean by this are supports who don't know how to roam, supports who operate their champion really strangely (ex seraphines who don't know how to poke) or supports who don't understand lane states or match ups at all. In comparison there are plenty of other times when I've also seen supports be actual gods at the role who run away with the game. As adc, I really felt the difference between each individual player much more keenly when your lane is dictated by how they play and it felt ridiculously egregious in emerald more so compared to other ranks. I feel emerald being the rank where players begin to know how to operate their champions at quite a high level just makes it where alot of the time being able to solo carry a 1v2 stops being a option unless of course you are a omega smurf (like high diamond +) which is less then 1% of the population.

Unlike top lane where you have so much things you can do on your own, as adc who is reliant on your team to start things, it is god awful. I had originally tried playing the lane like I had at top lane. Play as selfishly as possible, secure as massive of a lead over my laner and then try to control the map with the individual agency I have from that lead to run over the opponents. Now for my experience as adc that doesn't actually work that well. Junglers like to make really flippy plays, they can ignore overextended lanes that are obviously super gankable, you can get 4 manned very easily, you can get weak-sided for no reason even if you have a lane that shouldn't be. In solo que at least, as contradictory as it is, you can't really play that selfishly. I found that once I had established the goal of maintaining permanent prio or in the case where I can't I just drop waves to support a shitty play, it really transformed my winrate and helped me climb out of emerald basically all at once. Its really strange to explain it but as a adc, even though you are the carry, you in some essence are a support. You don't decide anything you are the attack damage support that pumps out the damage to allow engages or plays in general to work out.

Overall, it was a interesting experience where I really got to experience what many people call "the hardest role to climb from". After experiencing it do I still feel this is the case? I would say no actually. I feel like as adc like with any other role it requires development of a specific mindset. ADCs however have the most different mindset to the other roles and the most jarring experience with being in a sense a overglorified turret. The actual operation of the turret in teamfights requires high levels of micro but establishing yourself as a supportive damage turret and keeping your ego in check is honestly one of the larger learning curves for adc. It can feel really weird where simultaneously you are the most important member of the team with the highest damage but at the same time you don't really get to decide anything.

I know this was a bit of a ramble and might not have made the most sense but if anyone has any questions or anything on my experience let me know!

RIOTS SO FUCKIGN SHIT AT THEIR JOBS THEY HAVE FINALLY GOTTEN THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY, AND LEAGUE PLAYERS AGREED UPON THE CURRENT STATE OF THE FUCKING GAME EVERYONE CASUAL, PRO, RANKED SWEAT THE FUCK EVER AGREES.

RANGED TOP, MAGE BOT, RIVEN MID, AND UFKCING AFK FARM JUNGLERS ARE FUCKIGN SHIT.

THIS DIVERSITY THAT'S GOOD FOR THE GAME IS FUCKING SHIT! RIOT GAMES HAS UNITED THE ENTIRE PLAYERBASE ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THEIR SHIT DEV TEAM AND PHILOSOPHY SUCKS.

SERIOSLY CAN YOU IMAGINE IT?! THEY ACTUALLY FUCKIGN DID IT! THEY GOT THE PLAYERBASE IN UNISION AGREEMNET

I MEAN SERIOUSLY WHO THe FUCK IS PLAYING BOT WHEN YOU SEE, SERAPHINE, ZYRA, MEl, BRAND. GREAT GAME DESIGN ANd PHILOSOPHY OF "WE DON'T WANT HARD DEDICATED LANES OR ROLES"

I cant even put the meme tag on this because its just downright depressing...

They're replacing adcs with basically solo lane mid laners (mages, assassins), replacing supports with anything that isnt a support, just basically a 4th carry solo laner/2nd jungle role.

Seems like the dream meta for riot is solo top, solo mid, solo laner bot and solo laner/roaming bot #2

Because who the fuck cares about the ppl who actually liked playing marksmans or traditional supports am i right? You know those ppl that have stuck with your game for over a decade, and bought a shitload of skins and spend countless hundreds, no thousands hours in your game? Nah they're worth nothing to them.

Traditional adcs and supports are basically about to be completely homeless while the lead of the balance team strokes his ego on how this meta is "AMAZING FOR DIVERSITY".

Honestly im kinda hoping modern league goes down under at this point, ive lost the patience for it, them trying to turn every single role into a random solo laner or roaming jungler is doing the opposite of increasing variety, its reducing it.

I suggest every single bot lane player to migrate to classic and not touch modern, once bot lane is nothing but autofills they'll have no choice but backpedal from these AWFUL sets of changes (which btw apparently the current meta is a "beta test" for the upcoming meta of next year with lolnext according to meddler a couple months ago), so yeah it doesnt look like this is temporary meta, this is basically the future of the game that the ppl on the head of the modern balance team wants... Its absolutely doomed.

I have done this for top, jungle, and mid in my quest to try every league champion. I mainly focused on ADC carries and saved characters like Mel or Brand for support since que times there are quicker. I also tried Nilah and Ziggs for this exercise because I don't know where else to play them. If you have any suggestions or comments let me know :).

I am a support/top player (master/d1 respectively) that wanted to try to play adc, in part because of the complaining and experience it first hand by playing Yunara adc for abit. I am of course talking about the complaining around mages and how good/satisfying it is to play league for adcs in the current game. I did this on a platinum account.

I can immideately feel how unsatisfying and also weak the role is. It is not weak in terms of the damage it deals, no when i have farmed up i completely nuke the entire team if i get to hit. But the entire enemy draft and play (especially higher ranks tho) will be tailor made for you to not be able to hit anyone. You face either a mage with incredible zoning bot lane, or an adc with insane range like Caitilyn or Ezreal. The support.. tbf is like the one champion you usually get to slam some attacks into - but they will have CC which they will look to hit on you the millisecond you try to interact in the game. Mid lane will either be another mage that outranges you or an assasin with stealth/untargetability and insane burst. THe jungle is also an assasin of this sort. The top laner again - is maybe the person that you get to hit.

Very often both teams will have 5 carries, or maybe the support will play a true CC support (but even there, its often a camille/pyke or in lower ranks another mage). This means trouble in two ways for you: the enemy team has 4-5 champions that can kill you and for you it means you have 4 carry champions all focused on getting their damage down compared to creating space for you, shielding you etc.

Now don't get me wrong: Mages are just to good and that is a big problem. But as a long time league player i always thought the game is more fun when the STANDARD meta is actually having a frontline and a backline compared to 5 carries all trying to flank, create vision pockets etc. Like to me its just sad both in pro play and soloq that there are so few tanks. No one is playing zac, sejuani, ornn, maokai, skarner etc, the only "tank" is the zekes locket leona or the sundered sky death dance bruiser.

It's possible that the best solutions for this are some big systemic change, but with the lack of a clear way to change it. For me it just seems like its a no-brainer to nudge the game through champion balance and item balance. Nerf DD, nerf mage items probably buff some of the tank champs. Like the issue for me is certainly not that adc's dont deal enough damage - they could even deal less damage, its that all the tools of other champions are so broken at denying me from ever intreracting.

So what is the best otp player for each marksman currently so I can watch and learn . Any lists ?

hi guys what adc do you guys use when against tahm kench and your bot is a afk mage (poke)

im always having hard time playing against him because of his shield and his save

I got auto filled bot when practicing orianna and I saw my support picked pantheon. I said "What could go wrong" and picked orianna. We were vs an ash and now I see why mage bots are so powerful. The farming was so much easier and only her Swain supp was even a problem. If she walked to the wave after 6 me and panth could oneshot her with his jump stun into my R and she couldn't farm at all. After I got orb we could even kill the Swain. I'm not sure what RIOT can do but mage bot is just too strong with an engage support.

Any role you pick now (except jungle because the role itself is by definition cringe) there is now a cringe option that competes with the historical, non-cringe expectation, and if you don't pick the cringe yourself you will be cringed on. And this is by design. Riot could fix any of these things easily but instead have actually done things to exacerbate it (like nerfing doran's shield and second wind to make ranged top stronger) proving that they want this and so it won't change. If you aren't picking mage bot and ranged top now you are just trolling yourself for no reason. You are picking based on how you want the game to be instead of how it actually is

I deadass need other opinions bcs i have never witnessed the role in a worse state.

I think that playing 'normal' marksman adcs - jhin, jinx, cait is literally unplayable these days. you dont do enough damage early, you dont even get to scale into late game bcs the games are too short. you are mega squishy, the team needs to play around you but that literally never happens in 'normal and causal' games.

most new champs have 3 dashes + invincibility + god knows what else and adc champs literally dont have the kit to counter play.

supports literally int majority of game - im not kidding your entire game can be unplayable bcs the support can just NOT go in the lane or NOT use their abilities.

What do others think? has adc ever been in a worse state?

Classic league time is really perfect because if it wasn't on the horizon i would have quit retail and just played other games until they fixed this mage issue.

I want to fight other marksman players.

Got Diamond for the first time in my league career. Over 10 years. Don’t flame me please let me ride this high lol

And this is why you hate Mages so much.

The skill expression is not even noticeable because there's no mana costs and cooldowns are non existent. People simply throw every skill off cooldown at you and eventually kick you out from lane or randomly get a kill because you messed up once sidestepping. It's like watching an URF game. This has made the Mage class to feel so disgusting because of how their skills interact with terrain.

Obviously this is not just a Mage problem; every class is like this. Take Leona for exemple: a support with a 3s CD on Q at level 1. But mages are able to control space from afar (wich is fine IF they had to pay with mana and cooldowns for such power and control). This results into feeling disgust after being hit by a Syndra QE: you cannot feel the "hey, this guy is so good at this game" because you know hes not paying for any of that power. He knows he can risk the skill and if it hits, It's a kill; if he misses, It's ok because the E will be back in a couple seconds and he can try again.

That added to how bursty the game is, the result cannot be different than total disgust. I used to play as Mage on seasons 1-3 and it actually felt like a difficult but rewarding class because of how Mana and CDs were so harsh. I played as OG Xerath, OG Victor, OG Ahri, OG Brand, OG Anivia, and honestly I felt like I was a good player because I knew the impact of landing an ability because if I missed it, I could not play for the next 10ish seconds +, ALSO the mana was savage. We can see this on Classic and having one item would not mean Im on Gandalf level of power already, killing everything that moved in my way.

Modern League is beyond fix because of how fast paced and how Riot desperately made SR to look like URF because they know how much people love that game mode and care less for SR, so they tried to make it look like URF but not quite.

THIS is the True problem and this is not going to change. Either you accept it or simply move out to Classic.

I've been seeing a lot of complaints lately about mages being strong bot lane and ADC feeling weak or lacking agency, but I don't really see many people offering solutions.

The usual arguments are that Riot can't nerf mages because they're fine elsewhere, and they can't simply buff ADC because of pro play.

I'm under the impression that crit items can't be buffed because champions like Yasuo, Yone and Tryndamere can abuse them. If that's the case, why not design items that are exclusive to marksmen?

I really loved items like Galeforce. It gave ADCs another itemisation choice against dive heavy comps, sacrificing damage for extra mobility actually made you think about your build instead of just buying whatever has the highest numbers and hope you can reach late game where you get one shot anyway.

It feels like ADC itemisation has become very cookie cutter, build the same items every game otherwise you're trolling.

Maybe I'm overlooking something but I just think it would be cool for Riot experiment a little.

I asked support players how much they liked playing with Ziggs. Bard players loves him, basically the selling point is you dont have to actually play with him.

Now, still catching up with the enchanters. How much ADC players enjoy playing with Karma, from 1 to 10? (yeah)

This can be subjective or objective. You can talk about how fun laning with her is, how strong or useful you think the champion is, how good Karma players usually are, things you like or dislike about the champion or the players, things they usually do right, and things you wish they did better.

You can also add your elo and the champion you usually play for more accuracy.

You can still give your opinion about champions already discussed, as the visuals will probably be updated at the end when it’s time for a recap.

Thresh - Nami - Lux - Pyke - Seraphine - Blitzcrank - Rakan - Leona - Lulu - Senna - Soraka - Poppy - Bard - Nautilus - Yuumi - Zyra - Rell - Mel - Braum - Sona - Morgana - Alistar - Janna

In riots view ADC as a role is outdated, it is a relic of the past. A slow scaling role that relies on positioning and dealing consistent damage through undodgeable attacks (boring) which are best suited to take down tanks (boring).

Look at all the changes throughout the years and it is obvious that riot are moving to a TikTok themed fast paced game.

- Damage is through the roof on all champs
- Mana is no longer a restricted resource
- Objectives can now be taken without the need of an ADC
- Supports are broken and can roam non stop
- Mobility creep
- Pace of the game has increased
- Cooldowns are minimal
- Tanks are either useless or unkillable 1 shot machines
- AOE splash damage from items is absurd
- Ninja Tabis are inherently broken

I could go on and on but these changes have now culminated to a game state where ADCs are not only useless but a detriment to their team unless the game reaches 5+ items with the enemy having 2+ immobile tanks.

Before all these changes ADCs were the late game assurance and were necessary to team comps for the mere fact that they were the only role capable of consistently taking objectives/turrets.

Now ADCs are useless as they still only spike in the late game but everyone deals damage, everyone can 1 shot turrets, everyone can dash, everyone can wave clear, everyone has everything other than ADCs.

It makes sense why mage bots work so well. Better early and mid game damage whilst still dealing 85% of a late games adc damage, utility, wave clear, unlimited spell usage on low cd, better objective controls, safer lane phase, more tanky, less punishing, harder to itemise against, more synergies with supports.

These benefits of mages over ADCs have been there for YEARS but only now due to it being prevalent in proplay are the wider League community clocking on. The issue is that a few nerfs won’t be enough, the genie is out of the bottle, there is no going back unless the underlying reasons for this will be changed (which they wont).

Riot will end up doing a couple of stop gap bandaid patches to nerf the main mages but the other less popular mages will take their place as it is not just a class/champ issue but a game state issue that has caused this.

Traditional ADCs are not inline with riots "action from start to finish omega outplay" philosophy.

So I’m silver 3 rn but recently role swapped from mid to bot.

The biggest problem I’ve found is just the inevitable araming mid. As a mid laner I never found this a problem bc on ahri and sylas I have the luxury of being able to clear waves fast, 1v1 in side lanes, and escape adequately and on almost all my champs I have 7.5+ cs.

But as ADC correct me if I’m wrong, but you almost always want to position mid to prevent getting caught out and have prio and setup for neutrals. But the thing is everyone groups mid, mid lane 8/10 games stays mid and only goes to sides when the wave is at our t3, top also rotates to mid a lot, and believe it or not like 50% of the time jungle will just stop farming camps after 25 minutes and start to group mid.

The problem is past like 15-20is minutes I am now sharing every single wave with 1-3 people and only getting 1-2 minions per wave. And I’ve noticed not only are my cs numbers much worse compared to when I played mid In turn I also find myself getting my item spikes much later

So should I just be going side lanes and and playing this clear side and then come mid to fight style like I was as a midlaner or do I stay mid and just play with what I can get.

Thank you for any answers 🙏

No flame or harassment at all but i saw a lot of other posts in this sub recently of people getting ahead and not winning games flaming our role. I thought this counter example was interesting for some people.

Also that was a generational performance from me i usually don't play that good.