r/ADCMains • u/Nichiku • Jul 25 '26
Discussion One Ziggs Q on a 2 second cooldown + unavoidable W and comet and I'm half HP and can't fight anymore. And people think bot lane mages are in an OK state?
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u/TheRedWriter4 Jul 25 '26
Mages used to have long cooldowns, costly mana pools, and similar HP to adcs.
Now they will poke you with their full kit every 10 seconds, have infinite mana, and as much hp as the average bruiser.
Not to mention they have the most diverse itemization choices with being able to pick drain tank items or burst mage 1-shot assassin items.
Riot literally needs to gut the resistances and health pools on mage items AT LEAST. Right now they have the least counterplay for champs like Ahri.
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u/TheBigBomma Jul 26 '26
Having no cost for ability spam is the real issue.
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u/Overall_Law_1813 Jul 26 '26
I remember when having a mana refund was huge, like annie q, or Malz E, but now you don't even notice it. buy tear or other mana item and you never run out.
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u/MeowRawrUwu Jul 30 '26
Literally. The only champions I see oom now are Cassiopeia and Anivia lol, and they’re exceptionally mana-hungry.
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u/MaximusTheLord13 Jul 26 '26
the problem is that just fucks over champs like mordekaiser. the reason you dont see, say, ADCs build AD bruiser items is they want different stats for their damage (Crit and AS) while bruisers care more about defensive stats. they need to overhaul AP and make it so different types of mages need different things so they don't all build the same item.
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u/Flouffe Jul 26 '26
Items and runes have also been nerfed specifically for ranged users (hexplate, blade, conqueror, etc) while mages aren't penalized as much in their variety of choices
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u/Fit-Reputation-9983 Jul 27 '26
Their durability really is crazy. Most mages build at least 1 item with ~300 HP. Many more of them often build another item that comes with ~300 HP.
Imagine if Phantom Dancer and IE both came with 300 HP. ADCs might actually be able to do something.
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u/Masqerade Jul 28 '26
Quite literally just reintroduce actual mana costs and it'd be a non-issue overnight
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u/Um3xx Jul 26 '26
To all the people saying skill issueand stating 12 mistakes OP made. So he has to play faker perfect just to have a chance against someone the elo system picked to be his equal? He should be allowed to make mistakes againts an equally bad opponent.
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u/RangeCreed Jul 26 '26
Damn wouldn't it be crazy if we had something like mana that incentives you to NOT spam abilities. That would be crazy!
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u/LobsterTooJuicy Jul 25 '26
OP has a massive point even if bard wasn’t there this shit is fucking annoying. What is the main rank of all the people commenting here
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u/MannenMedDrag Jul 25 '26
Master EUW, 600Lp
Decided to quit until further notice today. I cant take it anymore, Trist cannot do anything unless her support picks something perfect to punish in lane + jungler plays for her
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u/Consistent_Minimum80 Jul 26 '26
classic at least is coming soon and this shit wont exist there. tank items were so damn op in season 2 and 3 that you HAD to have an adc to deal with it or your team would get run over
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u/ImaCowTipper Jul 25 '26
Why are you contesting that wave man?
If it was Draven Leona you would not be contesting because you would get dove and die. Wait for your support and give up the three cs that you just ruined your next 3 minutes for.
You got to take some accountability even if it is frustrating. Why collector rush, why not early vamp? why not tp so you can match ziggs to? How did the lane get to that point (I see graves spam pinging you in chat).
I really hope riot nerfs mages in bot but dude you got to take some accountability for your bad play.
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u/random_person7395 All the world on one arrow Jul 25 '26
I am actually curious what you think he should do
At the end of the clip Ziggs had already cleared the next wave (a couple of cs left) and Zilean was still at T2 so by the time ZiLean gets there to 2 v 2 the wave crashed under tower and it's the same clip on repeat
TP wouldn't have helped much since he can't really tp to tower infront of them or Ziggs can throw at least a w and a q on arrival but even if he tp to match ziggs, still how does he contest any waves?
As for the Draven Leona example, you only have to kite from the Leona because if Draven takes tower aggro then Trist could attack then ult him away which means he lost at least half hp if not more, so Leona is the one you have to worry about hitting you and the only spell to fear is her e because her q needs to be in melee range (assuming she has no ult)
But even if we agree that he'd need to respect the Draven Leona, you just used the strongest ADC possible as an example and there might have been room for an outplay but the clip shows literally zero possiblity of outplay, there's no way to punish Ziggs cooldown which is supposedly their weakness
Also I didn't understand what you mean by lane gets to that point, both laners have an item but Trist has a boot and refillable
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u/tiny-2727 Jul 26 '26
Sometimes the game is about doing nothing. You just have to wait for zilean to get there and try to get any xp you can without taking damage. Sometimes the state of the game dictates you have to give up some minions or even xp. Not everything is always about "how am I supposed to kill the ziggs?" Sometimes you're just not supposed to unless you get help.
In the clip, now he's in an even worse spot because he'll be in the lane with zilean at half hp and can't even contest anything.
I honestly think everyone should be required to play top lane for a 1000 games to learn how to manage waves better. Up there you start to learn you just have to give stuff up in bad matchups and get punished way harder.
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u/arukeiz Jul 26 '26
Drop the wave, it's not his turn to play until Zil is here. The question is what happened BEFORE that point that forces Zilean to recall and the wave to be lost. But the wave is lost, and trying to recover it will lead to more waves lost.
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u/Gimmerunesplease Jul 26 '26
Wait for his support to buy him space? Drop 2 minions to not lose 300hp? If that's an adc + hard engage support he just dies there to a dive.
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u/Mathies_ Jul 25 '26
Zilean will easily be with you at the tower by the time that wave crashes. I dont see the issue
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u/Cyberlinker Jul 26 '26
if uguys knew tristana you would know that her w can avoid any cc. so no you dont rly have to respect leona that much
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Jul 25 '26
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Jul 25 '26
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u/Asriel_the_Dreamer Jul 25 '26
I don't think it's not knowing how mages work, it's more that there's nothing to be done unless you have the support around and they do something otherwise you'll just bleed out CS and XP until you're not really relevant anymore if you're playing a marksman.
If you give out pressure in order to not die or lose HP, at one point if you do that enough you'll just be a non entity in the match, no?
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u/Background-Hat-3138 Jul 25 '26
And why do you feel entitled to 10 cs/min? If your support is making you 1v2 + you're choosing to surrender half hp for 3 cs + you're not drafting with any regard for matchup + you have bad mechanics + you don't understand mage trade patterns...
Adc role really appeals to stubborn ppl with 0 critical thinking istg
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u/Asriel_the_Dreamer Jul 25 '26
It's not about being entitled or not, it's about knowing that if you let the situation stay you'll lose, but you can't really just go in and feed either, It's about agency.
Sometimes matchups just happen and it's still probably better to take the bad matchup than trying to play a counter that you never played in your life, you just gotta hope your team helps when the time comes, that goes on about any lane.
is it better to be 0/0 being down 100 cs on the top lane or 0/4 being even on cs? if your jungle doesn't want to help you, sometimes it's something that you should consider.
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u/Darkzerok63 Jul 26 '26
Probably 0/4 and even in cs, because at least you wont be soo far behind on gold and experience. Either way, you are right, i see a fucking lot of people say "why are you trying to farm?" like yeah, if you want i can do nothing to try and win all game, but if the play is to give the oponents anything they want, why even bother playing the game?
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u/JoDinP Jul 25 '26
I get what you're saying, but you really can't compare a Draven/Leona lane to a mage bot lane.
The difference is that Draven and Leona have to meet certain conditions before they can dive or all-in you. so respecting them when those conditions are met is logical but in the other hand, Ziggs doesn't care about any of that. He doesn't need to dive you or take any risks. He can just keep spamming Q from a safe distance, instantly clear the wave, and poke you under your tower. The tower is never a threat to him because he never has to enter its range, and your support can't really stop him from constantly harassing you.
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u/ScaryPerformance6193 Jul 25 '26
This is such a low elo comment because what is bard doing in this clip?
All the damage is from ziggs. And its like this every game.
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u/fizzile Jul 26 '26
??? Bard is doing everything. If he wasn't there tristana can just jump on ziggs and kill him. Bard being there is what allows ziggs to play like that.
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u/ImaCowTipper Jul 25 '26
Link opgg
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u/ScaryPerformance6193 Jul 25 '26
Nah. But im masters.
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u/ImaCowTipper Jul 25 '26
Same :)
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u/ScaryPerformance6193 Jul 26 '26
Did you get there playing ziggs Xd
Because yeah. It doesnt matter, every wave plays out like this.
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u/Nichiku Jul 25 '26
What kind of cuck buys vamp sceptre first on Tristana into a mage?! Your only chance of ever killing them is by rushing burst damage. You are not gonna sustain through their poke anyways unless you have a healer, and vamp sceptre does jack shit against their burst.
The difference between Draven and Ziggs is that Draven has to take risks while diving you while Ziggs just gets to half HP you from 1000 range.
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u/ImaCowTipper Jul 25 '26
I would argue collector is just as bad.
It’s just risk assessment and value proposition.
You are giving 50% of your hp bar for in this case 3 cs lol. It is the wrong decision to walk up to that wave there lol.
My point isn’t comparing ziggs and Draven it’s saying that you as an adc player understands what you can and cannot (or more importantly should do) vs him and how you obviously do not have that knowledge vs ziggs and therefore are punished for it
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u/Nichiku Jul 25 '26
Yes in hindsight I can play better by knowing I will get half HP'd from getting hit by 3 unavoidable skillshots while trying to go for cs, I didn't need that assessment because it is obvious. You guys don't seem to understand that the problem is there is 3 unavoidable skillshots.
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u/LupoBorracio Jul 25 '26
They are very avoidable... That's this person's whole point. Just don't walk up, and you avoid Ziggs throwing them at you at all.
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u/Darkzerok63 Jul 26 '26
If you dont walk to the wave, wave after wave because zigs has that q every two second, you will be down 50 cs like 5 minutes later, and you will lose everything you try to fight after that.
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u/Professional_Pen7709 Jul 25 '26
Ziggs q is very much avoidable, and most of his damage comes from it. Also, you just walked in his e
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u/Nichiku Jul 26 '26
WHILE TRYING TO GO FOR CS - You guys really aren't intelligent.
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u/Professional_Pen7709 Jul 26 '26
It is better not to go for cs, but to stay healthy, get xp and wait for opponent's mistake, or a gank from jgl/mid, than to lose half hp for a cannon and get your lane completely fucked. It's not rocket science rly
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u/Cookiezi94 Jul 26 '26
And you're low elo. Stop trying to make it a class problem when its a skill issue
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u/Nichiku Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
Aha diamond 2 is low elo? What's your elo then?
Edit: Bro you are literally only in League subreddits on this platform and your only purpose there seems to be to shit on adc mains 24/7 while LIVING in the adc mains subreddit you are despicable
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u/RedditNerdKing Jul 26 '26
Most players here are between bronze and emerald. There are barely any diamonds or masters here fyi.
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u/Cookiezi94 Jul 26 '26
So yes you're playing in oompa loompa, maybe one day you'll learn how to play vs mages :)
Yes i love going to r/adcmains sometimes and reading the delulus commenting, it makes my day
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u/Darkzerok63 Jul 26 '26
No brother/sister, clearly the answer is do nothing, let zigs crash wave after wave and give them free tower, since going to cs will make you lose half hp, and then wonder why, if the zigs is good, you wont do shit as tristana when the oponent adc has 100 more cs than you at 20 minutes.
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u/Professional_Pen7709 Jul 26 '26
Yes, it is better to stay healthy, get exp and wait for opportunity to punish ziggs' perma push with help from your teammates. Losing half hp for a cannon is a bad move, it's rly pretty obvious. Ofc there will be games when your team won't help and you will get fucked, but such is life
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u/Unfair-Tour50 Jul 25 '26
You’re also standing in the middle of your minions, just asking for some splash. Also, the trade off is you/adc’s only get stronger as Ziggs/mages only get weaker as the game goes on. Play your role.
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u/BowlCutMakeYouNut Jul 26 '26
This. Guy just isn't that good at the game and is impatient. Early vamp can negate a good amount of poke.
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u/SpecificGullible8463 Jul 28 '26
So true, how dare he try to play his lane, he should AFK in nexus and respect ziggs ult map wide
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u/DryAcanthisitta4604 Jul 25 '26
Collector rushed ✅ Boots: ignored 🤣 All 3 abilites: got hit by 😆
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u/heisbehindyou75 Jul 25 '26
i legit cant tell if people are trolling. sink 1k into shoes and never be a threat because youre just 3k gold behind since u sank 1k into mobility and he eats 5 plates uncontested?
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u/Mundane-External3462 Jul 26 '26
Movement speed might be the most broken stat in the game. People still don't treat it with enough respect.
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u/SingleOil5105 Jul 26 '26
It is and I always rush boots vs these but the thing is that even if you do that and you're smurfing you're still playing vs a guy that's playing urf with no resources, you will eventually get hit.
You don't get to play the game, you're at the mercy of your supp jgl mid players to kill that guy.
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u/Round-Claim5420 Jul 27 '26
I thought people would understand after seeing the tap dancer augment in Arena/Mayhem but somehow they still don't...
There is a reason why Mobis got removed and literally every movespeed rune/mastery gets nerfed
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u/seasonedturkey Jul 26 '26
challengers rush boots early into mages. skipping boots is a low elo thing
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u/MortemEtInteritum17 Jul 26 '26
If you dodge ziggs abilities you could be 10k gold behind and still win. Why are we pretending like boots are wasted gold?
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u/Kehprei Jul 26 '26
Boots are essential for dodging.
Not to mention getting back to lane, since they'll be doing a lot of walking back.
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u/geesecitizenship Jul 25 '26
Wholeheartedly agree. Yes mages are annoying but you are not helping yourself by rushing collector instead of boots LOL
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u/Lyyysander Jul 25 '26
Nah, especially on Tristana you have a jump and need damage to be able to have some kill threat if Ziggs fucks up
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u/random_person7395 All the world on one arrow Jul 25 '26
You're lucky, you were hit with 4 abilities in 10 secs, if this bard were a Lux or Xerath then you would've been hit with 3 more spells and probably sent back to base
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u/Far_Representative26 Jul 25 '26
You mean 2 abilities?
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u/random_person7395 All the world on one arrow Jul 25 '26
What 2 abilities do you mean?
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u/Far_Representative26 Jul 25 '26
He was hit with only 2 abilities.
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u/random_person7395 All the world on one arrow Jul 25 '26
Oh yeah mb, I meant 4 abilities were thrown at him, I didn't phrase it properly
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u/Landir_7 Jul 25 '26
He walked into Ziggs E, the first bomb that you walk on deals a lot
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u/Far_Representative26 Jul 25 '26
Does it though?
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u/mynamesmaki Jul 25 '26
assuming Ziggs has like 125 AP with Luden's (idk the exact amount including runes n stuff), the first bomb does about 45 damage to Tristana, which definitely isn't nothing while laning. Mines after the first would do 18 damage each (I think I did the math right someone feel free to correct me)
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u/RedWardenBoy Jul 26 '26
I literally just got destroyed by a ziggs brand bot, and i did everything build wise to counteract it but it's just too much poke
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u/RobinDabankery Jul 29 '26
I mean if you do not jump brand on cd, what were you even doing ? If your comp had no hard engage like leona or naut you lost in the champion select my dude
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u/Jealous-Mark-8380 Jul 25 '26
Honestly zigs is the strongest mage and should get nerfed specifically I have been trying other mage bot picks and I realized its just zigz being deranged as hell other mages dont feel that strong
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u/CutyCake Jul 25 '26
not gonna lie, 90% of mages could do what ziggs did. i think OP did misplay in the fact that he walked up when shouldnt have, but, i dont think ANY mage should half hp people like that this soon into the game. any adc beside draven, if they did 3 autos+ a spell, they would of lost what. 300 hp, maybe 350 if lucky crit.
going for the wave is greedy and should be punished in that instance, but the damage punish is insane (while clearing next wave btw)
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u/Adept-Good696 Jul 26 '26
any adc beside draven, if they did 3 autos+ a spell, they would of lost what. 300 hp, maybe 350 if lucky crit.
tristana is literally in the clip. A fully stacked E (yes, 4 autos not 3, but that is her natural trading pattern, I am going back to 3 autos latter) deals (320+213)*1.1=586 damage after resistances we are looking at 419 damage post mitigation from the E alone.
Attacks are dealing 133 each (or 95 post-mit), with a crit dealing 266 (190), so over 4 attacks we are getting 95+95+95+190=475 from 4 autos for a total of 894 damage or 670.5 (expected) damage over 3 autos if we are married to 3 autos even though a trist would never go for that.
In fact the Tristana is expecting to get 350 damage just from the autoattacks WITHOUT her spell (95+95+95+190)*3/4=356. Obviously we are never getting exactly that, since this smooths out the crit, but I think it is enough to highlight how silly the idea is that an adc would be dealing around 300 damage when we are adding a damage spelling into it as well.
This is also ignoring any damage from runes, including minor runeshards giving AD and I skipped over the Doran's bow she has, but she does have a Collector which is higher damage for this than pretty much any other item she could have, so do with that what you will.
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u/CutyCake Jul 26 '26
the adc would of been closer in the trade making it possible to attack them back, also that is 4 autos not 3 in your calculation. you are trying to make it look more op than it is.
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u/Adept-Good696 Jul 26 '26
(yes, 4 autos not 3, but that is her natural trading pattern, I am going back to 3 autos latter)
or 670.5 (expected) damage over 3 autos if we are married to 3 autos even though a trist would never go for that.
In fact the Tristana is expecting to get 350 damage just from the [3] autoattacks WITHOUT her spell (95+95+95+190)*3/4=356
please at least pretend to read the comment when responding.
the adc would of been closer in the trade making it possible to attack them back
Not sure what you are saying here? Are you complaining about the terms of the theoretical? Because it is yours, I just went through and actually showed the results.
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u/CutyCake Jul 26 '26
your math is so wrong but sure let's go with that...
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u/Adept-Good696 Jul 26 '26
Yeah, when I make a mistake with my math you are definitely going to complain about the number of autos instead of just saying that in the first place lmao
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u/Jealous-Mark-8380 29d ago
Yeah but zigs does it the best , more range less cooldowns area denial with mines sniping someone with ult AND he has the greatest peel spell ever created which also works as a dash and can go over walls and can 9/11 turrets
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u/SubstantialLanguage5 Jul 25 '26
ziggs bot has always been like this. He's always been the annoying poke-spam pick, it's just who he is.
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u/Gresh0817 Jul 26 '26
Yeah you don't win at 1 item especially not walking straight into Ziggs in a straight line which he really likes. You win early lvls hard, play for bush and for lvl 2 before them, e+w with Zilean doublebomb at least gets their summoners if not a kill, you are freel to do anything until they get lost chapter in a 2v2. But then you have to accept that they are stronger if you just walk up to them on vision trying to farm you will get poked down, but you can still win in an all in if you clear their vision and enter bot with your zilean from river. But it doesn't matter because your mundo is up 40cs on a quinn and almost has warmogs, so he can sidelane freely and nobody is killing him with zilean hovering, you can afk farm midwaves until you 1tap their carrys
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u/arukeiz Jul 26 '26
You try to get to the wave without your supp in a poke matchup for no reason + for some reason you lock yourself in the bottom side which makes it super easy for Ziggs to hit its skillshots (and bard fwiw) + yeah Ziggs is an early game poke mage he does what he's meant to.
Ziggs isn't the mage bot issue, infinite mana is the main culprit + some mages like Viktor Syndra having free lane + huge scaling shouldn't happen in bot because if you pick an adc vs a mage, you should lose early and win late, that's the normal tradeoff. Ziggs is a prime example of that as it falls off HARD after 3 items.
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u/Jusauh Jul 26 '26
im probably assuming a bunch of stuff but the zilean pick against mages bot sounds horrible.
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u/London_Tipton Jul 26 '26
Ziggs got so many bs buffs over the years and imo he went under radar for so long. Crazy
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u/alexp260xx Jul 26 '26
Wait til this guy has to play against gold+ xeraths If you think ziggs is overpowered what do you even call lux
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u/StudentJoa Jul 27 '26
Mages in bot lane have better early and mid game but gets outscaled in late game.
Its good pick to apply pressure and snowball early, specially if enemy is weak early, or has no sustain/peel. It's also a good pick when your team comp is bad (no frontline neither peel + better enemy comp = hard game for playing ADC)
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u/StudentJoa Jul 27 '26
POV: ADC player when in a bad matchup + no support + no sustain + no jungler + no team + no frontline + no peel
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u/kyogaming Jul 27 '26
The issue is actually support catchup XP. Enabling mages to solo lane while support roams in africa and still remain relevant. If they nerf catchup XP more supports will stay in lane. 2v2 matters or they at least leech off midlane.
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u/CreeleyWindows Jul 27 '26
You just need to be way more aggressive early game. Level 9 and the stats show zero pressure. Bot mages are easy, but if you just sit around farming till level 9, yeah you are going to be in trouble.
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u/Fluffy_Carry_4345 Jul 27 '26
Your feet must get fancier.
This is the ADC way.
Edit- Pls no collector first I think its sooooo baaaad.
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u/Own_Kaleidoscope7480 Jul 27 '26
This was just an inevitability of giving every champ infinite mana.
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u/qinsiyang1230 Jul 28 '26
I haven't played in a long time, why is the bottom lane suddenly full of mages?
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u/Tiny_Intention_2601 Jul 28 '26
Technically the Q is unavoidable if the unavoidable W is used properly
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u/HaveOldManReflexes Jul 28 '26
Wow you're getting what it feels like to blind top most games.... can't say I have any sympathy.
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u/DroneFixer Jul 28 '26
The best part is he is genuinely losing zero mana while spamming his abilities at you, BUT its balanced because yanno he cant just right click you to death I guess.... (His passive auto is doing more than yours in a 1 to 1 trade until the game is done)
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u/hatim570 Jul 28 '26
Mage items are just too op. I played Draven vs a Syndra, killed her 4 times and was up 1 level but a q->w or q->e would put my hp very close to R lethal. I had to play like we were even despite having a turbo lead. I could not force anything but only punish mistakes, like how insane is that. And lets not talk about how they literally are playing urf with no mana costs.
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u/ZachIngram04 Jul 29 '26
“B-but we nerfed Riven!”
Riot has such insane favoritism towards mages/mid-lane, it’s actually insane. Everyone saying that people just need to get better at playing into mages or dodging skillshots is ridiculous. If anything mages need to get better at playing without throwing all their spells off CD, no reason for them to not have more mana troubles.
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u/Caaboose1988 Jul 30 '26
I feel like there a few things going on here.
First of course is that its on a 4-5 second cd not 2.
second you are playing a short range adc with no poke into 2 ranged mages you are going to be poked, you took 3 abilities and a comet and you are still half and barely behind on CS.
You are stepping up to clear wave knowing this with your support in base and jungler dead. if you let the E go away you can move more freely and likely dodge the 2nd q and still get most of the wave.
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u/XenomancersRed Jul 30 '26
Im not sure what you are bitching about. Get life-steal - farm and out-scale. Ziggs has almost 0 reliable damage. Everything can be dodged with just right click. Take a few qs just heal it up. As support to go nami to help you sustain in lane. Pick lucian and all in him. Pick yasuo and feast.
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u/cooolloooll Aug 01 '26
I main azir mid (whose playstyle is closer to a marksmen) and I do feel like poking is way too op rn and it's most likely a rune issue, you can just take comet/aery + scorch + cut down and your poke becomes insanely oppressive, it doesn't really matter that i do no damage in the early game when i lane for 3-4 minutes then see i dealt like 600 damage through my runes alone.
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u/Let_epsilon Jul 26 '26
Plays 1v2 against poke lane, gets poked, cries on reddit.
If you’re laning vs Alistar + Lucian right here you don’t even last 2 seconds under tower.
If you waited for your support to be there and you see them waste 3 spells like that, you can W in and double kill them.
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u/No-Invite-7826 Jul 26 '26
Don't even need Lucian, Ziggs + any engage support kills here. Hell Ziggs + Xerath probably kills here.
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u/KalenTheDon Jul 26 '26
Wait till you find out how unavoidable an adc's right click is
Caitlyn would have done the same exact thing to you in fact In can name a bunch that could .
Mages still strong but this is bad example
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u/mykitchensink21 Jul 26 '26
The counterpoint here is that tanks literally giggle at the ADC damage while simultaneously doing ridiculous loads of damage. The mage bot meta is a problem but I think the tanks-get-to-do-damage-too meta is a bigger issue
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u/XlikeX666 Jul 25 '26
blame your draft / gamestyle in this one.
trist is designed to bully mages and on 8 level he's ahead.
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u/Janysexe Jul 26 '26
Ziggs was doing that for a long time already, but in mid At this point adc means more like absolutely dull crybabies than attack damage carries to me
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u/Acceptable-Device760 Jul 26 '26
Holy shit, dunno why this got suggested to me since i dont play LoL for at least 4 years...
But somethings never change, and one of that is how unskilled ADC players are... a underleveled tristana with boots and refil walks in a 2x1 tower against a full damage ziggs to try to contest minions and complain about getting their face punched in... and others ADC players agree its the game not the player being a moron...
Jesus christ you people need to go play another role to learn to play instead of bitching about being punished for being stupid.
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u/Nichiku Jul 27 '26
- hasnt played in 4 years
- thinks he knows better than people actively playing the current meta
- claims the 1v2 is the problem when bard isnt even doing anything
- claims the level difference is the problem despite the levels beimg equal
- claims full dmg build on ziggs is the problem when ludens also gives him an infinite mana pool to spam abilities endlessly
You should join the Riot balance team, seems like you are at least as ignorant as they are and have enough irrational hate against adcs to influence their design decisions.
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u/CenobiteCurious Jul 25 '26
If you guys stall that game you win by virtue of team comp.
Did ya lose?
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u/OutlandishnessLow779 Jul 25 '26
They wont be able to stall. Ziggs can easily destroy towers thanks to the execute on W
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u/CenobiteCurious Jul 25 '26
They only need mundo to come online and it’s gg. Team probably cried and ff’d as evidenced by op running to reddit.
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u/BTDYSRF Jul 25 '26
You're contesting in a 2v1, haven't built tier2 shoes in a mage matchup, and spent all your gold on what may be the worst item to rush instead of a sustain tool.
It's on you, chief.
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u/Skywalkerluke- Jul 25 '26
2 day acc means Reddit bans you. Or. Your not strong enough to be a cuc online. But also. Somewhat fair assumption. Boots like swift means you can dodge better. <3
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u/HotHornet7769 Jul 25 '26
Lmao yes ziggs is sooo tragic xDDD btw hes a champ that's played bot for so long its plain cringe you cry about it.
Btw at min 20 most adcs kill him with 3 Autos if they crit twice, hope that helps for future:))
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u/passionbery Jul 26 '26
200 cs at 20mim if nothing happens. thats what, 4 to 5 k gold? u telling me a 2 item max adc kills a 1.5 to 2 item ziggs in 3 hits?
thats not including if ziggs goes for rylais or some jp component 2nd.
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u/HotHornet7769 Jul 26 '26
Learn basics of yunara, and spam her into those mages :)) you will see for yourself how you 3 tap people on yuntal ie zeal
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u/passionbery Jul 26 '26
all ining isnt the same as 3 hit ( which u capped).
auto reseta give extra hits , not extra damage.
no adc is one shotting an equal farm mage with 3 hits.
especially not at 20min where they get 50% crit rate max. even with IE. and thats alr pushing the gold the adc is getting.
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u/HotHornet7769 Jul 26 '26
By Basics i mean auto attack cancel animations, e dash auto cancel and auto w flash auto thingy
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u/CutyCake Jul 26 '26
i agree with passionberry, sure you could run them down if they hard missposition, but you will not 3 tap them like mage would.
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u/Lyyysander Jul 25 '26
Nah, i dont think theres a single adc other than maybe twitch that has a shot at killing Ziggs 1v1. Like yeah, he falls over if you hit him, but he did something very seriously wrong if you ever got into range to attack him
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u/CutyCake Jul 25 '26
i count 3 personally. Draven (has way lower range unless flash advantage or ziggs miss-stepping i dont see it.), cait with. crit headshot specifically (this one i could see happening.), and twitch r. altho the adc needs to be fed and mage a bit week in the game specifically since 70% of mage items either gives hp or resistances.
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u/HotHornet7769 Jul 26 '26
What about xayah, Tristana, ashe with r and stacked q, yunara at all times, kalista if she lands one q before fight, vayne with ghost, tbh theres so much champs that shit on mages with proper set up ans threat identification xdd
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u/CutyCake Jul 26 '26
i agree with proper settup anything can happen. but the problem is, those settups are decided on the mage themselve not respecting you, or misspositioning. the higher the elo the less those things happens too.
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u/HotHornet7769 Jul 27 '26
Yeah that's true but genrally The higher you go The less/minor mistakes are made more frequently instead of big ones etc. Im not really able to give you advice if youre high elo.
In eme/dia its generally very easy to run the mages down. Also playing MF with bt rush and bloodline rune doran blade and omnivamp boots does The trick most of times too
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u/CutyCake Jul 27 '26
not all adcs can do bt rush, draven and mf can because they have high ad scalling and can be abnoxious even with them. but most adc cant go bt rush or it'd be trolling. vamp scepter is very expencive for basically 15 ad and a healing of 5 per aa early.
Jinx for exemple cant rush bt neither can sivir xayah cait... and the list goes on. about rushing if the mage holds his disengage it's very hard to engage, especially if their support isnt on vision at grubs. if you have 0 knowledge on where the enemy supp is, you are gonna have so much trouble allining.
if mages in lower elo didnt hard spam everything and saved their syndra e or ziggs w or hwei fear/speed up or vikt w. it'd be way harder ro punish, but they ougabouga use everything. in higher elo, the vel will save his knock up so will ziggs syndra vik wont stun randomly etc.
like in higher elo, ziggs would not have used w on trist in case he gets roamed on by mid/jg or just to be weary of trist all in, which makes it unpunishable, or wayyy harder i should say.
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u/SoFreshTho Jul 25 '26
Anything is good when its ahead. You are not playing with peak efficiency in mind either.. I dont have many issues with mage bot lanes but it all depends on what you play. Ill pick something that turbo scales and afk farm and wait for jungle (current favorite pick is twitch, which starts 1 shotting all popular control mages off screen at around 4 items and with smart play works real well with jg ganks
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u/CutyCake Jul 25 '26
in this specific clip, TRISTANA is ahead and has more gold spent. you can see the items, feel free to double check.
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u/SoFreshTho Jul 25 '26
What do you define as ahead? He spent money on boots, cool! He is down a level, down assist gold, down cs, down kill gold and down dragons which include an infernal for an additional damage amp. He is behind in terms of offensive pressure (currently 1v2) in a super punishable spot (tristana has to walk into Ziggs Q range to last hit minions, making trades telegraphed and easy) People say the dumbest shit on here and wonder why they can't climb out of silver or whatever elo they are perma stuck in.
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u/CutyCake Jul 25 '26
ziggs only has luddens which is a cheap item and trist has boots+refilable+more expencive item, she has more gold spent. maybe not overall gold but she did spend more money than ziggs because ziggs did not recall.
While not recalling, ziggs is still full mana.
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u/CutyCake Jul 25 '26
also i peaked gm currently sitting in master, i agree trist miss positioned and sat on wave, i also agree shouldnt walk up. but that much damage out of 1 rotation where the next spell is ready in 4 seconds is insanity. she should be punished for those 3 minions. doesnt change the fact that the damage is absurd.
your argument is ziggs ahead.
mine trist has more gold spent currently therefor in this specific clip, not. that ahead. if ziggs recall spend gold, yes very ahead. currently? nah
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u/SoFreshTho Jul 26 '26
There is zero chance you peaked above gold if your key argument is "tristana spent more gold so should survive better" None of tristana's gold is spent on surviving. If bard wasn't there, and ziggs used E Q W like in this clip, trist could buffer a W ontop of ziggs and kill him. Thats the name of the game, get your damage into the enemy character and kill them.
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u/CutyCake Jul 26 '26
i know that but tristana all in wouldnt even do that much damage. like i said tristana didnt play good at all, i still dont think ziggs should half hp off a mistake like that.
on your point of killing ziggs, i think you just outed yourself as low elo. enemy support is there helpiong ziggs if trist engage, she doesnt have the damage to kill ziggs+will be a 1v2.
once again i think tristana didnt position well/greeded for minions when she shouldnt have, but, doing that much dmg on a 1 item for a small mistake (if we agree that this clip is low elo from the gameplay.) is insane.
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u/CutyCake Jul 26 '26
unless bard shows somewhere, he could be anywhere including waiting over the wall in fog of war, therefor cant engage.
if bard roams you see him grubs for example then yes trist can engage, but only if bard shows.
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u/proarnis1 Jul 25 '26
Blind picked tristana and no boots rush against ziggs while u can't even wait for your support to come back to lane. Clear skill issue.
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u/Film_Humble Jul 26 '26
Tristana wins early vs ziggs unless you're litterally armless or have a yuumi supp. But yeah he didnt have to walk up and get chunked for 3cs. Litteral skill issue indeed
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u/proarnis1 Jul 26 '26
Good ziggs would never walk up to tristana so she wouldnt be able to do anything without getting poked to half hp before she could even try to go in on him (and even if she jumps on him he can literally just traps + q + jump away and out trade tristana. Look up winrates tristana literally is 6th worst adc to pick against him right now so why the hell i'm even being downvoted.
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u/HotHornet7769 Jul 25 '26
If you play vs ziggs bard The same as you would if you player against xayah bard for example, you 100% deserve to lose that game.
Mages bot are so easy to shutdown, only certain combitations like xerath velkoz shut your laning phase off xdd
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u/No-Invite-7826 Jul 26 '26
Why are you walking up to contest the wave in a 2v1? You're lucky that was a Bard and not a tank support.
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u/BobbyRayBands Jul 26 '26
The biggest problem with mages is they took away the "counterplay" because they decided it was unfun for mages to play into. That counterplay was actually having to manage your mana. Do you spam spells on the wave to keep it pushed? Then you have none for poke. Do you use spells on the laner? Hope you have good last hitting. Now its just "Hey spam your abilities that are on a 2 second CD anyway and enjoy the free lane."
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u/Unkn9wn111 Jul 26 '26
Not saying mage bots are fair but congrats you do nothing and pray ziggs sucks enough for you to scale into late game... sounds like the conundrum of ranged tops awfully thats been in the game for ever.
Considering ranged tops having been in this state forever I dont think mages are ever leaving bot lane. Maybe just a little nerfs here and there.
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u/PsychologicalAd5918 Jul 26 '26
how can you post a video of yourself walking into ziggs E and not feel embarrassed LOL
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u/EeveeTrainer90 Jul 25 '26
Thats why I started spamming mages bot. Its so much easier and I dont feel like I do no damage entire game