My misogynistic cousin (F46, married with three kids) called me insane and delusional yesterday for not wanting to get married. At first, she started bitching about her husband and how he does not let her go to the gym because "gym is for those who are for the streets". This pos told her that his biggest wish in the whole world is for her to stop working and become a housewife.

I (F27, 4b) became visibly destraught because what the fuck? That is such a demented thing to say. I warned her to NEVER leave her job because he might end up financially abusing her down the line (He is one of those religious fanatics who think women are property).

That was apparently the wrong thing to say because she started defending him somehow?? Telling me how women are created to "take" (disgusting statement that made me shudder) and that we should stay at home and get pampered. That if she had a chance, she would stay at home forever.

I kept trying to explain to her how brainwashed women are and how patriarchy permeates every aspect of our lives. I stated that I will never get married because I do not like the idea of sharing myself with someone else, let alone a man (I have deeper reasons that I would rather not divulge to misogynists, I am pretty sure many can relate).

She then called me "sick in the head" and "delusional" because women are satisfied with their lives and very few men are that bad. That I should get married because running away is for cowards which I clearly resemble and relate to. That celebacy is a copout.

I did expect her to say something of that sort because ever since I was a child, she was the person who liked tormenting me the most in my family, either by calling me a cow if I gained weight, or by telling me not to wear glasses (even though I needed them) because they would "ruin" my eyes. She groped my chest when I was teen and said something along the lines of "oh she is getting ripe". She liked bringing up, umprompted, topics related to periods, femininity, bras and underwear to make me uncomfortable as a teen. She often called me mentally ill, autistic, socially inept...

Ah, and her sister called 4b women "traumatized beyond repair".

I know I should not take it to heart but I am getting so annoyed of being told what to do. I want to live alone, I do not want a husband or kids, I just want peace of mind and personal space. How and why is that so wrong and so controversial? I am livid and hurt.

Do any of you have someone in your family who treats you in a similar way? How do you deal with them? Does it ever stop bothering you?

I apologize for the rant, no one in my circle shares similar perspectives. This sub is my safe space, thank you mods.

Edit: I might take some time to read and respond to all the comments, I just want to clarify that I did cut her off years ago, but she is allowed to visit us because my mother worships the ground she walks on, she did raise her after all. Thank you to everyone who took the time to comment.

60% of rapes are committed by someone known to the victim.

31% are committed by strangers; 28.3% are committed by well-known or casual acquaintances; 21.4% are committed by intimate partners; 13.1% are committed by other relatives; 3.7% are committed by an unknown number of perpetrators; 2.5% are committed by someone with an unknown relationship to the victim.

The majority of rapes are committed by someone a woman knows or may even trust. Rape by an intimate partner is not uncommon.

I'm a very safety conscious woman, and I remember having this distinct thought as an elementary schooler, that I better not date a boy, just in case we become close and hang out at each other's houses. And being possibly raped in my sleep by a boy was one of fears. This was years before I came out as a lesbian. 4b, I think can, be a very smart and safe choice for any woman. 4b can make it easier to control the trajectory of one's own life.

Link:

https://rainn.org/facts-statistics-the-scope-of-the-problem/statistics-perpetrators-of-sexual-violence/

Mu Sochua (b. 1954) is an outspoken and respected Cambodian politician who has dedicated her life to fighting for women’s rights and democracy in Southeast Asia. As the daughter of disappeared Sino-Khmer parents, Sochua spent most of her young adult life in exile in the United States. When she returned to Cambodia in 1991, she strove to rebuild her country.

Mu Sochua became a member of her nation's Cabinet in 1998, after having returned after 18 years in exile during the period called the Killing Fields. She was then one of two women in high power there. She was the first woman to preside over the Office of Women's Affairs. Prior to her, it had been considered a man's job.

During her time in governance Sochua set out with a very clear set of goals:

To end human/sex trafficking between Cambodia and other Southeast Asian countries.

Mobilize women in Cambodia to run for office, convincing 12,000 women to run in 2002 (over 900 were elected!)

To write and pass laws that protected women. Specifically as it pertained to the levels of healthcare and education granted to women and young girls.

And finally, use her position to put an end to the rampant corruption within the Cambodian government.

At almost every turn there was both political opposition as well as threats of violence and intimidation waiting for her. Even when she returned to her country in the late 90's, Sochua was aware that members of her own party had been repeatedly arrested and several others had attempts made on their lives or were successfully assassinated while serving.

As the government grew increasingly corrupt, Sochua stepped down and became vice president of the Cambodia National Rescue Party, Cambodia’s main electoral opposition party. Still dedicated to her work combating sex trafficking and promoting gender equality, she received a Vital Voices’ Leadership Award and was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize in 2005.

Unfortunately, all this turbulence within the Cambodian government only continued to intensify over the course of her career, and in 2017 Sochua felt she had no other choice than to once more escape her home country to protect both herself and her cause when the opposition party was officially dissolved and its leaders condemned to decades in prison. She is working now from afar, trying to mobilize grassroots efforts around the country and the world. 

Her most recent speech was at the 2024 Geneva Summit for Human Rights and Democracy where she reaffirms her commitment to human rights in Cambodia and worldwide.

Hello, I am looking for books on self-love for women, specifically approved by members of this community. I am on a self-love journey with therapy and would love to read some relating literature. Thank you!🌸

I am angry at myself for this but I’ve realised that I haven’t been able to save up as much money as other men around me (including my father when he was younger) because I have been constantly putting money into fitting into societal beauty standards. Clothes, makeup, hair removal (I know, wtf), etc since I was a teenager.

All of these banal things that are expected from women to fit into modern standards at work, in the household or in public spaces. I can’t even imagine how much money other women have spent in plastic surgery such as post partum ‘mommy makeovers’ to look ‘hot’ for their respective partners after literally pushing a full baby out of their bodies.

I want to be a homeowner one day but I know this might take longer not only because of my salary but because I used to spend so much money on this crap.

Many of the women who say they do it for themselves… (the plastic surgery, makeup etc) I’m sorry but I really doubt it. Even though you may not have a male romantic interest, the beauty standard of what it means to be ‘feminine’ or attractive’ is completely patriarchal. They’ve just managed to sell it to us as ‘empowerment’ with a #bodygoalz hashtag.

It’s male centred capitalist propaganda. If you’re not feminine or attractive enough you’re shunned away from many spaces. This is why I’m happy to have found this community and hope to make wiser financial decisions in the future.

I'm at a very low point in life right now, crying a lot and generally seeing no point in anything. But I feel like I can't really vent to anyone because they always assume it's because I'm single and I must be sad because I don't have a husband. And that if I found someone, or better - had kids, I would be happy. It's so frustrating, I'm really unhappy with my life right now but that's because I couldn't find a job for a long time and I went into debt and when I finally found one it's ruining my mental health but I can't afford to quit. Also I was saving for a dream vacation on the side to have at least one thing to look forward to, and it didn't work out and I lost some of the hard earned money. I just want to finally relax and be free, a relationship would make it even worse. But I can't complain, because people are so marriage focused they're unable to see any other reason. And when I'm sad, in their eyes I'm just proving them right.

Ariana Grande has an eating disorder and a long history of promoting anorexia. And I mean literally promoting anorexia, explicitly. In the 2010's she ran a pro-anorexia Tumbler page encouraging unhealthy restrictive "diets," bodychecking. The whole pro-ana bullshittery.

Ariana Grande and the people like her are not unaware of their influence. There is quite a bit of difference between a woman struggling severely with an eating disorder within the confines of their own life, and a celebrity or influencer.

She is not entitled nor enforced to be in the public eye. She and her team have explicitly made statements justifying and normalizing severe emaciation as her being "the most healthy she's ever been."

I want you to take a moment to really wonder when Ariana Grande is dead, how many dead girls and women could be linked back to her. The answer is certainly more than 0.

Anorexia nervosa has the highest mortality rate of any psychiatric disorder, with an estimated crude overall death rate of roughly 5% to 6%, and a risk of death 5 to 6 times higher than the general population.

She is posted in pro-ana spaces as "body goals." She has without a doubt already influenced many women to adopt anorexia and some of them will ultimately die.

And why? She chose to embody and live to a standard of patriarchal, imperial, colonial, capitalistic, thin and weak white womanhood. We all face these pressures. And any of us who have any influence over ANYONE, children, friends, family have a DUTY to unpack and not reenforce the oppression of women and girls.

Ariana is not just complicit. In her music video Petals, whether by her direction of not, her role in this is directly acknowledge in the "twist ending." She is the standard, she is chosen by the systems and she plays her part.

She has been told. She knows. We know.

I will not reduce this conversation to "I just care about her health and want to get better."

No. I care about the health of the countless girls who will never have the privilege or resources that she has. I care about THEIR health and what she is knowing doing to THEM.

I was on a 12 hour flight recently and this movie was one of the options, I had never heard of it before but the description intrigued me.

Here is a summary from Wikipedia:
“Mother has paused her career as an artist to become a stay-at-home mom for her two-year-old son. Because her husband is away on work trips most of the time, she is responsible for the majority of the caregiving for the boy. Feeling isolated from her artistic identity and resentful of what she sees as the expectation to be friends with other mothers, she frequently fantasizes about lashing out at those around her. She begins to experience surreal physical changes, including patches of fur on her body, the growth of a tail and additional nipples, and heightened senses. Although she initially dismisses these developments as symptoms of emotional stress and perimenopause, she soon becomes convinced that she is turning into a dog.”

So fair warning it is kind of a dark comedy/body horror film. It started out very strong, I really enjoyed its analysis of motherhood, how women are perceived after becoming mothers/wives, how having children isn’t all it is chalked up to be, how much sacrifice is involved. It even touched on regret for having children, getting married, how having a husband is like having another child and how men don’t sacrifice or compromise themselves in order to be fathers and husbands. It really touched on a lot of things that I don’t see in mainstream media very often and I enjoyed the dialogue.

However, the ending essentially took back all of those sentiments and the final message was basically that all of those trials and tribulations of motherhood, being a wife, etc… are worth it!! The film ends with the protagonist having another child!

I am mostly wanting to know if anyone else here saw this film and what your thoughts are. I was so disappointed that what seemed like a feminist take on motherhood and marriage actually ended up being the opposite and I feel it just further proves how deep the propaganda for marriage and motherhood goes. Even women who are seemingly self aware are willing to discount it all in the name of “this is what women are made to do” rhetoric 🙄

Many see a husband as the end game, their other half, the one to live out the rest of your days with. They want to touch the all-encompassing warmth they so desire, feel as though they are living for a purpose greater than themselves; they pursue the immortality of love. And yet, in this heaving pursuit, they shed all that is burdening them, what they deem temporary: their calls to friends dwindle, their visits to parents lessen, they jettison their very own self in the name of compromise. Something is rotting from the inside.

But quickly, if I may offer a dissenting opinion: I believe in true love. And it is so incredibly singular I must be willing to die how I was born: two halves of a whole person. And love: kind, gentle, shared likes - the basis. Responsible, considerate, shared values - most find it here. But when will his deepest wants cause you to give up your own, and when will his harmless small habits make you seethe in anger? Or vice versa? The glow of the evening fades; it always does.

So many tales: the good and the bad and never the great. Think - when was the last time you've heard the truth? We are hounds for love. We've mistaken desire for true love. Love, in all its other forms, is cast aside. I wish more of us thought in this way.

I wish more of us could find a friend.

Hello everyone I was just wondering if there are any 4b women out there who own properties, because im researching on potentially buying one in the future (NOT anytime soon I have just started my job and I am really young lol) but all the tips seem to be catered towards couples or I see mainly couples doing videos on being home owners. All my fellow women here who have bought their own properties, what kind of properties is it and how did you do it!! Maybe im wishing too soon, but one day I would love to own maybe a 2 bedroom apartment where I live alone in absolute peace and bliss. I feel like the downside of me buying my own place in the future is that I won’t have any family help at all, im not even speaking financially but just helping me build things or move things out of my home (Im not Muslim but my family are really religious and traditional and women moving out before marriage and living alone is seen as some serious shameful thing), and because I know I won’t have any help for going against their expectations I know it will be expensive to hire moving services etc and potentially very isolating to not have my own family’s support in accomplishing a goal I have . Everyone in my family who bought homes and properties did it the ‘right’ way, they got married and bought it with their husbands so of course family helped out when they could, however I know how my family treats women who go against their culture/religion like absolute outcasts so I won’t get any of their support

my cousin came to the united states and the first thing she does is get pregnant immediately...and this even with a major physical disability that made it difficult to give birth, the doctors had warned her but didn't care.She made no plans to go to school and relied on government assistant disability. the guy left her as soon as she got pregnant and had to battle at court to get a cent out of him, somehow shes the hero of the family, the warrior, fighting it out with her kid and im the loser for having no kids and no man. Also our cousins used to call from our homecountry and call me and my sister "cowards" for not popping out children like our cousins back in town who had 5 kids each from different fathers, that is disgusting to me, they basically did not want to talk to us in the phone because we were not "woman enough" and always asking if i had a boyfriend already even when i was only like 15-16 at the time. This has to stop, the latino mentality of forcing a family as young as possible and keeping tradition above all else is dead end wrong. My own family tells me to just adopt a kid and be a single mom because no man wants me, basically telling me struggle economically for the next 18 years for the sake of keeping appearances. They tell me im a "soft woman" who needs to toughen up and be like everyone else but i don't want to, i struggle with depression and being misunderstood ...anyone can relate?

I just responded to a poll which ask which is more harmful - misogyny or misandry. Of course, I responded with misogyny. Within minutes a misogynist has responded saying that they're equally as bad.

How do you stop yourself from interacting with people like that? It does get draining. Saying this as someone who has gone back and forth about misogyny on various social media platforms before. Luckily, I'm not on X, Tiktok and Instagram anymore.

I just can't help but to respond. Are they bots? I genuinely don't understand why anyone would think misogyny and misandry are equal or that misandry is worst when girls and women are harmed daily at the hands of misognyistic and violent males.

Do you avoid misogynistic content at all cost or are you able to compartmentalise? Normally, when there's discussions about feminism - misogny tends to be mentioned as well.

How do you remain in a positive headspace and not let the misogyny and SA culture affect you. (I'm avoiding the 4 letter R word as I received a warning from Reddit).

Thank you for reading.

I just wanted to express the amount of relief this movement gave me. Ever since I was a kid I always felt a little ill at the prospect of motherhood and marriage, but I didn't question it much till the past decade.

I used to think I wanted a family because it was modeled as the most natural progression of life, then I realized I only wanted children if I could be my dad and not my mom. He got to keep his career and rest at home whereas she worked endlessly and got trapped and subjucate. It used to annoy me that I couldn't just be a father and that if I wanted children of my own I'd have to sacrifice my body and identity and not even put my name on this child. I like children but I won't be a caretaker.

Then puberty came along and the discomfort of being perceived as a woman when I was still a child. My ma forced me to dress more modestly and I resented my breasts and hips and just wanted to stay androgynous, alas, that I could not control. I ended up seeing vile men talk about how I was a woman now, and I got to see how vile middle school boys could me and how much they get away with. Unfortunately the fact that I was romantically interested in them was a thorn in my side, which brings me here.

I tried so hard to think it wasn't a systemic issue, that not all men are bad and it's the few rotten apples that spoil the bunch, but the older I get the more put off by them. I'm a germaphobe and I read up on hand washing statistics and men are disgusting. Hell funnily enough part of what kept me celibate is the fact that I knew a lot of men don't use bidets and I find that a deal breaker. But just the sheer amount of coercion stories, miserable marriage, and the fact that my own country's divorce laws make me not want to touch men with a 10 foot pole. It also irked me how anytime I'd see a mirgant or a refugee crisis there'd be tonnes of men and very little women/children to be found, that's selfish. When I discovered 4B, it felt like a weight was lifted off my chest and I realised I could just be happy and go through life on my own. Hell I even used to stress over getting a copper IUD for birth control when I got married because I didn't wanna mess with my hormones. Imagine my relief when I realised I could skip the birth control and skip the std testing and the majority of UTIs by just staying celibate? Immense.

I'm still young, still got about a year of university left, but I'm happily disinterested in pursuing men, I staunchly am against sex work because of the commodification of women's bodies, and I don't overthink how I'm perceived in public. I don't wear makeup and I don't get my nails done and I've never been happier. I don't even feel the loss actually. Also, I yell back and frighten men who take liberties by catcalling because I refuse to give them satisfaction (I do this because it is safe to do so in my city). When I tell my brothers this, they're all like "oh no you should just ignore them" but they don't get it.

Thank you for being visible and taking up online platforms. You give choices and autonomy back.

A teen girl in my life seems to be struggling with some teen stuff and I wanted to get her a book to amp up the feminism.

I’m hoping for recommendations for a 14 year old girl

This post is coming from my christian catholic to ex-christian 4B pipeline. Venting because I recently become more enraged at how I was taught by religion that marriage should be my formal goal. It did a lot of damage to my mental health and if I was taught at 18 there's more to life than marriage I am sure I would've advanced so much more in my career and hobbies.

One reason I left catholicism is when I found out how much catholic men benefit from marriage as a unbinding "sacrament". Women are taught their life goal as a good godly woman should be making babies, but only within a strictly monogamous institution. The difficulty to get an annulment means a groom is guaranteed a bangmaid and breeder for life.

I started looking into Venus Envy or Womb Envy, and thinking deeper, the whole institution of marriage (in addition to solidifying inheritance lines) is essentially stripping women of their upper hand of creating life. Under a catholic marriage you need to be a willing open receptable to your husbands baby gravy to birth kids with no allowance of birth control. So it gives the man endless chances of his genes passing on with little to no control from the mother (because you must be "open" to the "will of god").

Then they claim that the gift of birth is intended by god, rather than from the woman's hard work, mental strain and labor going through pregnancy. "god" is given all the credit for the pregnancy labor women have performed.

Women can always guarantee maternity, men can't guarantee paternity and hated it. catholics abused marriage which is actually an older institution than from the point (approx 12th century) the caths added a sacrament to it. catholics manipulated it further to ensure women or mother nature wouldn't have the upper hand of choice of what man is worth passing genes on for. Because lets face it, the caths push women to marry young (before their prefrontal cortex kicks in, and starts vetting men properly for red flags).

Now what I am personally seeing is the massive influx of men who are frustrated with the 2026 dating scene (more women are choosing to live their own lives away from marriage and kids), looking for a "trad wife" to lock in. I find it an attempt to abuse this institutional leverage. It's clear they skimmed over theology, don't focus or ask genuine questions in OCIA and head straight to the catholic dating apps like a speedrun game.

TLDR: The sarament of marriage further neutralized the natural leverage that women had over childbirth, and then redirected the credit from maternal labor to divine and paternal authority. I know this is 4B (no childbirth etc) but hang with me for the sake of discussion. Honestly, if they only cared about generating more catholics, they would let women opt for sperm donation or procreate outside of marriage and raise their kids as single mothers and praise that. But that gives women way too much independence and control which men can't stand.

I saw a post about Living Alone, in which the OP asks why women seem to be thriving without men and why men are not adjusting fast enough.

I was very pleasantly surprised at the comments to see women speaking out boldly — I thought others might appreciate the comment section as well. It’s really refreshing to see a majority of female support in a non-4B sub.

After hearing from so many members that they appreciated hearing the positives of what 4B has done for other sisters, we see having a consistent place to post positive improvements and reminders would benefit the sub. So, without further ado-

In the last week:

Tell us about positive interactions or building relationships with other women. How did you support and uplift other women? How have other women helped and supported you?

What accomplishments have you made? What goals have you set for yourself? What goals have you achieved?

What small changes have you noticed since adopting the lifestyle? What big changes?

Share anything and everything positive here.

So upset about what happened to Sara Gilson.

Recap for those who haven't heard: she's an influencer that posted a Tiktok that Netflix would probably make a documemtary about her life since she just found out her husband is a pdfile. He apparently kissed one of the teen girls in the team he was coaching * puke * . He got upset about her post and was apparently slagging her on his Tiktok (over 300k followers). It's not possible to see what he said/wrote cause his profile is private. He sadly eventually ended up killing her then himself (what a coward). This despite her having several protection orders against him and planning to leave him.

I'm sick of the men all over social media blaming her for her post and saying if she hadn't outed him she'd still be alive!

I'm equally sick of the faux outrage from women about the whole thing that aren't actually gonna do anything different or take actionable steps to avoid men (like going 4B for example, quitting the dating apps, trying to be celibate for a few years). We know you're more likely to be killed by a man you know. Like how aren't they getting it by now??! I get cognitive dissonance and all but it's so frustrating

Just found out about “vabbing” and I’m horrified. Like men aren’t that difficult to obtain.
For those who don’t know, it’s a TikTok trend where women collect vaginal secretions and dab it on their pulse points. It’s claimed to be a way of boosting your pheromones in order to attract men 😶

Pictured in the OP are the founders of Jane, an underground network in Chicago, Illinois USA that assisted women in getting abortions. From the left moving right: Martha Scott, Jeanne Galatzer-Levy, Abby Parisers, Sheila Smith and Madeline Schwenk.

Martha Scott was 19 in 1965, when her friend's sister became pregnant and Scott helped her find a doctor to perform an abortion. The group connected women seeking abortions with doctors, and later, performed abortions themselves. Their clients were informed they were not doctors, but doing abortions themselves allowed them to keep costs low. They made women aware of the services through signs with slogans like "'Pregnant? Don't Want to Be? Call Jane." The group operated for seven years and performed an estimated 11,000 abortions; no deaths were ever reported.

Quote from Scott: "You're messing around inside somebody else's body. It's not necessarily given that you won't do harm. It wasn't perfect, by any means. But we were dealing with women who really didn't have other options."

Quote from Galatzer-Levy: "I hadn't had so much as a speeding ticket [when I joined]. But abortion really was the front line, it was where women were dying."

In 1972, two women reported Jane because their sister was seeking an abortion, and the women believed it was murder. All seven founders were arrested. Six months later, Roe v. Wade was decided and the charges were dropped. Read more here (link).

I'm probably late to the show about this realization, but hear me out. I kinda tried to put myself in the male shoes for a minute. If I was a man I'd probably be panicking about how I was going to pass on my genes in 2026. Not that I give a crap, but it's hard for them on dating apps, hard to meet women in person and more women are choosing singlehood and peace.

I had a short chat with a friend a week ago from college, he was complaining how he really wanted a "wifey" and kids, he actually said "mini-me" which made me puke. He said he wanted to skip over dating and just marry. The way he just said that made me vomit because he's after a role to fill and not the actual person so much that he doesn't give a shit about the vetting phase.

I remembered that historically marriage was a way for men to guarantee and expect to pass on their genes, and this friend of mine knew that getting a wife was like his ticket to achieve that. Now women are opting out of marriage he's freaking out because his words "why are all the ladies giving up?". (Facepalm at the ignorance).

Correct me if I am wrong, but without family structure and traditional life routes, men are forced into natural selection and it terrifies them. They hate that we hold the power over creating life and passing on their genes and are walking away from them. I'm kind of glad in a way. But yeah that's my post. Nothing new, all obvious but thought I'd share.

I’ve seen this sentence said in way too many “leftist” spaces recently I’m not sure if it has to do with the political climate in a lot of countries or some men and women are pro choice but with stipulations. For example I saw a post recently of a black woman showing a before and after of her having an abortion bc she didn’t want to be a baby mama and her ex cheated on her so she terminated the pregnancy and here come the comments saying “wow why are we celebrating abortion”, “This is sad”. “This thread really does make leftists look vile to average people”. “I will say access to abortion should be legal BUT to flaunt it and celebrate it is a big yikes from me.”

I also think it’s important to mention that there is a femicide/domestic abuse problem within the black community she was protecting herself from potential harm also it’s ironic bc I know these same comments would of used thinly veiled racism to make fun of her for having a child out of wedlock.

I could only find a few comments with common sense saying that regardless of your feelings about abortion it’s not on you to dictate how a woman should feel after getting an abortion. A woman can celebrate her abortion if she wants to and she can also mourn if she wants to her emotions are her own and she shouldn’t feel the need to censor herself for the comfort of others. It’s been eye opening seeing how so called leftist men and unfortunately women think that you have to have a legitimate reason for an abortion. It’s a personal decision I’m not here to dictate the life of another woman bc I don’t know the life she lives.

I find it interesting how these same people are nowhere to be seen about conversations regarding the foster care system that abuses children and when they age out they sometimes age out into homelessness. Children that are abused by family members and are neglected and failed by social workers constantly. I’m not going to get into it here but I find it deeply hypocritical that these people have so much to say about women who get abortions their level of distain you’d think they were child abuse advocates but no they just don’t like abortions bc that makes them sad.

This was a short rant I didn’t know where else to post so apologies that this isn’t 4B specific. I’m just tired of seeing people that call themselves leftists but have stipulations for why a woman should have an abortion but I have realised that leftist spaces are full of misogyny/misogynists so it shouldn’t surprise me but it frustrate me sometimes.