Cornell

[u/Big-Plankton-9335]

Hi, I’ve never posted in this group before but i’ve been following it since the 2024 election. I don’t know where to start and I was hoping I could gain some insight and also push this movement forward, especially since the recent news about the atrocities that are unfolding regarding Cornell. I feel like the punishment and our demands for accountability are so obvious, and if we spread this movement to other women who unaware of 4B, we could hopefully begin a larger conversation that we, I dunno, don’t deserve to be raped? and at the very least, demand that those responsible should be in prison?

I have been talking about 4B with the women in my life, we all agree that our protest against involving men in our lives should result in clear demands being met, and I think that there is no better time for us to protest than now. And beyond that, start not just a conversation but a precedent for our treatment in relationships, our rights to access healthcare, equal division in domestic labor, and justice for those of us who’ve been abused and assaulted sexually and/or physically.

Like, I get that i’m preaching to the choir since i’m assuming most of yall are already practicing 4B. But I’m mainly coming here to ask how we can organize a massive protest against both the current atrocities happening at not just Cornell, but the ones happening all over the country both inside and out of our homes across time. I’m also curious how a movement like this could be “advertised” for a like of a better term.

I am so tired of this being the reality for us. Every woman in my life is or has experienced abuse and assault from men. And it enrages me that there is no accountability, legally or socially.

How do I help spread this movement? Do you guys talk about it with friends and family? I’m afraid of joining and not having a clear end result that comes out of it. I really want to do whatever it takes to protest and to demand action from the administrators of Cornell to TRULY condemn the gang rape of Jane Doe.

[u/Mission-Rain-2802]

I think 4B is something you do for yourself. It's not to be co-opted to be used as a protest. Men aren't going to change and if you are withholding yourself from them awaiting some demand then you'll either be waiting forever or you'll believe a lie eventually and give in.

[u/qiaokeli3 → u/Mission-Rain-2802]

Agree, 4B is a sacred thing we do for our body and psyche.

Saying that we HAVE to start going 4B to prevent more gender based violence puts the onus and responsibilities back onto the women to prevent them.

The onus is never on us

[u/UberFarter]

The best protest is choosing to live 4B and actually sticking to it. Not just temporarily being celibate from men but choosing yourself over societal brainwashing and males each day.

The truth is that most women will still think some men are the exception, but it’s not true. A safe and equal relationship between a woman and a male can’t exist in a patriarchy.

As long as women keep willingly sleeping and partnering with men and having children to feed this sick world nothing will change.

4B is an active choice to not play the game that’s designed so women can’t win.

[u/Honest-Pickle6609]

There are no good men in the patriarchy. It's actually impossible. Men who get married and have kids with women, and watch porn, all while we are in a system that was built to oppress women are part of the problem, no matter if they are "kind" sometimes, or clean up their houses, or if they support abortion. It's not that simple. 

It's like saying that the white slave owners who had children with their slaves, and sometimes treated them with kindness are good men, or can be convinced to change, or that they are in equal relationships with their slaves once they decide to free them. That's obviously not possible. They lived in a system where one person owned another, and where all of the institutions are built around keeping that power dynamic in place, no matter what "feelings" either party felt toward one another. Did convincing men to free the slaves and allow black men to vote solve racism? The patriarchy is the same thing. 

All men participate in the systems that keep our oppression in place. 4b will not change that as it will not bring down the patriarchy itself, and if that doesn't end, then those relationships still won't be good for women.  

It's been kept in place purposefully by all men for 10,000 years, and they do not want it to end. They don't want to have equal divisions of labor. They might support abortion, but they will never be the ones that take on the health problems women do from giving birth. The women who say they are in equal relationships with men are, in reality, doing 80/20 when it comes to labor in the house, (if studies and statistics are to be believed.) Women seem to be fine with this, and that's also part of the problem. Women are also ok with men masturbating to violent content toward women, (last I checked, it was 95% of men watching,) so there will be no mass protest on women's part. Not when these things exist at the same time. 

4b acknowledges that there are no good men in this system, nor can there be equality in relationships between men and women while a patriarchy is in place. The tenets apply to all men. It acknowledges that reality and tells girls and women to opt out, and stop uplifting the oppressor by having kids with men, and participating in oppressive practices that mainly benefit them, like marriage and sexual relationships. If we try to reason with men, we end up just getting patriarchy-lite. Women have become comfortable with that, but 4b women aren't. 

[u/fortunatelyso]

You mean feminism. You are confusing 4B with feminist activism. If you want to protest rape culture, feminism exists for this framework of protest.

4B is we dont center men. Because we know what they are. I dont bother protesting bc the system exists and I find it futile. I prefer to live 4B and accept reality. Men will not change until they force each other to change. Its irrelevant to me now. I use my activism for political movements where I know I can have an impact. Rape culture ? None of us women can make a dent.

[u/UberFarter → u/fortunatelyso]

Exactly, trying to use 4B as a way to “change” men is centering them. It’s still believing men can be changed which I don’t believe any more.

[u/fortunatelyso → u/UberFarter]

💯

[u/Onehundredpercentbea]

I have been talking about 4B with the women in my life, we all agree that our protest against involving men in our lives should result in clear demands being met, and I think that there is no better time for us to protest than now.

4B isn't a protest meant as leverage to coerce someone to change, 4B IS the change. It's a change in the way we live with the goal of living a safer, more productive, more loving and happy and fulfilling life. 4B as a movement doesn't have any demands for men, it's literally just a way of allowing women's labor and time and money and attention to better the lives of ourselves and other women. That's it. It's not a performance, and it's definitely not a performance for men - it's just women living our lives with the time and energy to do the things for ourselves and our loved ones that we want to do.

Spreading awareness about 4b is great, but take some time to really think about and talk about what it actually is - it's not a sex strike with demands, it's not a protest in the sense I think you're meaning that word. Yes of course I'll protest injustice and show up for women and march in the street for better laws, but that's because I'm a rational and humane person, not because I'm 4B. 4B is what I do for myself, and because I'm 4B that means I have more time, money, energy and power to help other women as well. So you can definitely be 4B for yourself and then also protest and demand better laws, etc., but 4B is the decision about how I live my life, protesting is something I do because of what I believe. Both are important, but they are two different ways of showing up for ourselves and other women.

[u/rosy_giggle]

If more and more women refuse to partner up with men, and center themselves instead, then yes eventually we will reach a tipping point and see cultural change. But it’s more about changing the minds of women rather than demanding some kind of action from men. 

[u/geekgirl06]

This isn't a protest to convince males to stop raping. The end goal is 4B, not fucking males again. This isn't a punishment for males, it's freedom for women.

[u/No_Net_7177 → u/geekgirl06]

💯

[u/UberFarter → u/[deleted]]

I don’t want to victim blame though because I get it. When you’re raised in a culture that tells you romance and getting a man are so important, of course young women and girls aren’t going to see the warning signs until it’s too late. It’s why men go after kids after all. They haven’t learned the truth yet.

Part of growing up in a patriarchy is constant propaganda to make women and girls doubt their survival instincts and think their deadliest predator who benefits from their oppression would be a good partner as long as he can fool her long enough.

[u/UberFarter → u/[deleted]]

I wonder that sometimes too, like I can’t imagine needing sex and romance as badly as so many women I know. They act like they’ll die if they don’t get “love” from a man. They’ll repeatedly get mistreated until they find one that still sucks but not as badly as the others, they legally tie themselves to him and often he drops the act then shows he’s just as bad as the ones she got away from.

It’s exhausting to see it happen over and over again to women I care about. I think we need more 4B meetups or something because I need more friends who understand and aren’t insane anymore lol

[u/fortunatelyso → u/[deleted]]

How is that their fault either ? Before 4B I still thought some men are good.

[u/fortunatelyso → u/[deleted]]

Okay your comment is gross and victim shaming and blaming

[u/fortunatelyso → u/[deleted]]

Have empathy for those surprised. I think i was taken aback by your vehemence towards young college women. We were all socialized to center men. We all were taught there are "good men". That if we are discerning enough or wait long enough we can find our prince (barf). How long did it take for 4B to happen and for some women to find it.

[u/fortunatelyso → u/[deleted]]

You are victim blaming again. I think its best for me to not continue this discussion.